Penny-Sized Flash Module Holds 16GB

nerdyH writes "Intel describes its new 2GB to 16GB SSDs (solid state disks) as 'smaller than a penny, and weighing less than a drop of water.' The parts are '400 times smaller in volume than a 1.8-inch hard drive,' Intel boasts, 'and at 0.6 grams, 75 times lighter.' Sampling now, with mass production set for Q1 2008, the Z-P140 is described as an 'optional' part of Intel's Menlow chipset, built in turn as part of Intel's vision for Linux-based Mobile Internet Devices (MIDs)."

Comments

Big deal

[BrianPan]

All flash memory has been smaller than a penny and weigh less than a drop of water for a long time. Adding a package-on-package controller is an obvious next step. There's no big revolution happening here.

Re:Big deal

[Eternauta3k]

All flash memory has been smaller than a penny and weigh less than a drop of water for a long time. Adding a package-on-package controller is an obvious next step. There's no big revolution happening here.

What do you know about marketing?
:P

Re:Big deal

[BrianPan]

Touche. I probably would have gone with "new flash still smaller than a quarter, still doesn't explode in your system."

I guess Slashdot submissions also have to be "sold" to the editors to be front page worthy.

Re:Big deal

[A nonymous Coward]

I guess Slashdot submissions also have to be "sold" to the editors to be front page worthy.

I went on an interview once where the HR jerk spent most of the time berating me for not dressing up, said that during an interview, I was not a programmer, but a salesman, selling myself. He didn't say much at all about the job, except that all employees had to be at work between 8 and 830, not before, not after, and the company (Quantum business computers, I think was their name) was at the worst possible commute location, last exit before crossing the Hayward (CA) bridge ... and I'm supposed to be excited about probably an extra half hour to get to work because the president is a numbskull? I think that HR idiot shoulda spent more time talking to the president about common sense than to interviewees about dress codes.

Re:Big deal

[purpledinoz]

I hope they don't waste it on their Turbo Memory technology. That's something that looked good on paper, but really didn't work as expected. But I can't wait until we get solid state hard drives of a decent size. Maybe in a few years, we'll have 100GB flash hard drives, which will make laptops last longer on its battery...

Re:Big deal

[JCSoRocks]

Ummm cave dweller much? We've already got 100 GB+ solid state drives. This one is obviously crazy expensive but you can get 32GB models for a more reasonable price - around $400 I think.

Re:Big deal

[russ1337]

we're way way off topic here, but to complement your story:

A buddy of mine had a job interview for an office job - in the telecoms field, and had previously only ever worked as a precision machinist (CnC type stuff in coveralls) since he left school. He asked my advice on what to wear to the interview (and subsequent job) because I worked in a corporate environment. I helped him chose a suitable suit, tie etc, and gave him some simple dress tips (for the corporate environment - and wasnt entirely sure what his office culture was like, but thought better dress up than down.

He was the only guy applying for the job that wore a tie - let alone a jacket. He got the job and wore his jacket and tie to work every day, (jacket off during working hours). In 6 weeks they made him the manager.

I've always reckoned it was that he *looked* like the boss, and it 'looks bad' with him sitting in a cube with the polo-shirts and tee-shirts. The fact he wasn't a complete muppet helped too.

Next time you think your boss is an idiot and wonder why he's your boss, you'll probably notice that the only difference between him and you, is that he dresses nicer.

So that is why the article made it to the front page - it was wearing a tie. Articles wearing greasy coveralls and have food stains down the front have no chance.

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course there's no revolution - it's solid state!

Re:Big deal

[noidentity]

And the smallest sticks are too damn small already. A friend got one of those Micro SD or something and I was surprised he hadn't already lost it in the carpet. Maybe good for having a normal-sized watch with GB of memory, but otherwise too easy to lose.

Re:Big deal

[purpledinoz]

So I'm a cave-dweller for not knowing this? So I guess 99% of the population are of the cave-dweller variety. Congrats on being the 1% of the people who are surface-dwellers.

Re:Big deal

[Zeinfeld]

I hope they don't waste it on their Turbo Memory technology. That's something that looked good on paper, but really didn't work as expected. But I can't wait until we get solid state hard drives of a decent size. Maybe in a few years, we'll have 100GB flash hard drives, which will make laptops last longer on its battery...

My everyday work laptop only has a 32Gb disk, it seems to be enough for corporate purposes. I would not use it to develop code unless I was in an airplane and really bored and I can't store my iTunes catalog on it, but thats what an iPod is for. I might use it to do a really lightweight edit of a podcast but after using a 30" screen as my every day monitor I really find the 12" laptop effort too piddly to bother with at this point.

In fact I can't really see what I would do that needs more than 32Gb but less than 500Gb or so. 32Gb fills up pretty quick if you are going to start dumping out flash memory from the cameras or doing video editing.

Re:Big deal

[JCSoRocks]

99% of the population isn't on slashdot. My mom doesn't even know what a hard drive is, but then, she isn't the kind of person using this site either. If you're here - it's because you're a geek / nerd / techie / whatever. You are, therefore, expected to know a little about what's happening in tech.

Re:Big deal

[danbert8]

Well, since we're off topic, I have another similar situation... My first day on the job as a co-op, I wore a shirt and tie, and my boss told me not to wear a tie because I was making everyone look bad (I'm pretty sure he was joking). Some people like a more casual environment.

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

my boss told me not to wear a tie because I was making everyone look bad (I'm pretty sure he was joking).

Chances are, you were making your BOSS look bad.

'management material' don't wear jeans with white socks and trainers.

Re:Big deal

[DaveWick79]

I think the vast majority of users have less than 80GB of data that they store. Even as an OS-only drive on a laptop, this SSD in the range of 8-16GB is pretty attractive. At the very least, using a SSD for the OS and maybe a few apps as well, would cut down on the hard drive usage, enabling the laptop to power down the hard disk for longer periods of time while the system is not using it.
Furthermore, I don't consider Turbo Memory to be a flop at all. Depending on your usage it can be a SSD itself with apps loaded on it, or it can boost performance by 20% for operations that do a bit of hard disk writing. I don't know how you expected it to work, but I've been pretty happy with it personally.

Re:Big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you happy to live in a culture where style wins over substance?

Re:Big deal

[Niffux]

Next time you think your boss is an idiot and wonder why he's your boss, you'll probably notice that the only difference between him and you, is that he dresses nicer.

And that he's an idiot, hopefully.

Re:Big deal

[HTH NE1]

Of course there's no revolution - it's solid state! Damn, "No Revolution. Solid State," would make a great T-shirt. Geeky and political!

Re:Big deal

[h4rm0ny]

So do you regard those of us that don't wear ties as less capable, then?

Re:Big deal

[slapout]

"Articles wearing greasy coveralls and have food stains down the front have no chance"

Articles about greasy food, however, do stand a chance.

Re:Big deal

[russ1337]

So do you regard those of us that don't wear ties as less capable, then?

Of course not.

It is unfortunate that in this modern corporate world, where two candidates being equal in nearly all aspects, the one nicely dressed candidate tends to be considered better 'management material'. I don't always agree with it, it just seems to happen.

You can either complain about it or use it to your advantage. We have a couple of guys here who would make great managers, they just happen to be complete slobs.

I'm sure its a human perception thing.

Would you want the guy running the Country to dressed all scruffy in jeans with white socks and trainers? ... oh wait..

Re:Big deal

[purpledinoz]

Well, I guess it's expected on slashdot to get insulted for not knowing something. At least I learned something new. That's why I read the comments.

Re:Big deal

[h4rm0ny]

It is unfortunate that in this modern corporate world, where two candidates being equal in nearly all aspects, the one nicely dressed candidate tends to be considered better 'management material'.

In an interview, part of it is undoubtedly due to the perception that one has gone to greater effort. Allowing for those interviewers with where suit-obsession is particularly ingrained, I'd say the perception of greater effort is most of it. Going to greater effort is understandably an indicator of who really wants the job and who really prepares for and applies themselves to it. However, there are other ways of showing preparation and commitment. The last interview I had (as interviewee, that is), I had prepared hand-out copies of the talk I was giving in good quality folders, separate summary sheets on the best paper that I could buy and I had rehersed my presentation and supplementary topics quite thoroughly. I didn't wear a suit and most definitely didn't wear a tie. I think it was a black t-shirt and black trousers, if I recall correctly. Would wearing a suit have made me look like I was going to an even greater effort? I don't think it would have, actually. For a start, I wouldn't have actually felt comfortable, I would have felt like a salesman. I was nervous enough without feeling like I wasn't being true to myself. A tie is a garment without practical purpose (other than for people assaulting you). It is descended from cravats the sole reason for being was to show you were fashionable and had money. Much like the impractical toga of ancient rome, it demonstrated that one was a person without need to perform a manual job. To many of us, the tie is similarly obnoxious, it's resemblance to a leash a further issue again.

In my interview, I feel that I gave the impression of someone that had gone to considerable effort to prepare for the interview. And I think dressing in simple, comfortable cloths (I'll concede that washed and clean is important) showed that I wasn't about appearances. If I had worn a suit I would have created the impression that I wanted to appear as if I had gone to considerable effort to prepare. I would have come across as slick. I wanted to show that what you saw was what you got - a valuable impression to make in an interview.

And let us not forget, that one shouldn't start wearing suits, unless one wishes to be stuck wearing suits. ;)

(Oh, for reference I should mention that I have been a manager for several years, though I very recently took a non-managerial position because I wanted to keep my hand in in actual programming and transition to large-scale project management later on.)

You can either complain about it or use it to your advantage

I choose both of those and a third option of my own advantage. Let me give the Non-Suit Manifesto. In your comment, I'm inferring that complaining about it is akin to fruitless whining. That isn't necessarily the case, though we may differ on what complaining means. I'm posting on the subject here and now (eloquently, I hope, regardless of whether or not you agree), and this could be considered complaining. I'm similarly eloquent in dismissing the superficiality of judging people by appearance when or if the subject arises at work. I hope you don't leap to the conclusion that this means I jump up and down whining on the subject - I just nip any such attitudes in the bud as and when they arise.

Secondly, as regards using it to my advantage, you are referring here to wearing a suit but in fact any mode of dress can be used to your advantage with imagination. Many sucessful people play off their image of being non-suits (e.g. Richard Branson likes to spin the showman and radical angle). As a manager, I never once wore a tie or come to think of it, smart shoes. In all honesty, I played off it. I had a very close working relationship with my staff and everyone saw me as someone they coul

Re:Big deal

[h4rm0ny]

I don't normally post mod requests, but somebody get this poor bastard out of -1 moderation. That was a good catch! Funny - not flamebait!

Re:Big deal

[russ1337]

Agree completely. I suppose what I was really getting at, and it seems you agree - is that its about making the effort - not by being slobby, messy etc - but in the other direction. You did it with nice folders and handouts and a good presentation in a relaxed environment, whereas I went through 4 brand new white shirts over 3 days of interviewing with very formal presentations.

I currently don't wear a tie unless I'm meeting with contractors or senior management from head office - anything less in my job would be be considered unprofessional by those I'm meeting with. If I worked for a creative company, at Google, or was as loaded as Branson, Gates or Jobbs (or worked in your work environment) then I'd certainly lose the formal clothing and show I'm serious about what I do in other ways - similar to what you did. In this job, I have to relate to the guys 'even though' I'm formally dressed - which can be a challenge if their first impressions are in the opposite direction from an interviewers.

So yeah, different strokes for different folks.

At the end of the day, my wife still gives me a hard time because I never 'dress nice' on weekends/ when we go out... heck. Weekends I avoid most personal hygiene till I've been up a few hours or 'told'. LOL.

Re:Big deal

[heinousjay]

If the candidates are nearly equal in all other respects, but one dresses like an unsocialized 14 year old and one dresses like an adult, that is a quantifiable difference that generally reveals something about personality. It shows that the person cares what other people think, at the very least in situations where it might matter. It shows that the person isn't dismissive or disrespectful of those around him as a matter of course. It's a very good indicator to use.

Re:Big deal

[managementboy]

my boss told me the same 4 years ago. I did not stop wearing tie and suit. I have climbed two steps on the ladder since...

Re:Big deal

[jacquesm]

being on slashdot and having nothing better to do except for keeping up with 'whats new in tech' is an excellent way of saying you don't have much of a life :)

oh, and by chance I did know about these other flash drives but I don't think that gives me moral superiority over anybody. Except you perhaps because of that...

Maybe next time you could try to just pass the information and leave the attitude ?

Re:Big deal

[A nonymous Coward]

I didn't wear a suit and most definitely didn't wear a tie. I think it was a black t-shirt and black trousers, if I recall correctly.

Was this for a job at Apple, by any chance?

Re:Big deal

[JCSoRocks]

http://echosphere.net/star_trek_insp/insp_captkirk.png - pretty much sums it up.

Ultramobile devices

[morgan_greywolf]

I could see ultramobile devices using these. Not only are they small, but they consume only about 300 mW of power active, and 1.1 mW in sleep mode.

We're starting to get to a point where wearable computers will be practical. You'll be able to sew a whole computer right into a jacket or a sweater. Throw in one of those wearable displays, abd forget lugging around that heavy laptop!

Re:Ultramobile devices

[Thanshin]

Isn't energy source the bottle neck? Why don't they advertising mainly the power consumption?

Anyway, the data by the time we can have a powerful computer hidden inside a jacket, the data will be stored at home and accessed through wireless communications, so the only really useful advance in memory is power consumption.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[wattrlz]

You can also forget about ever boarding a commercial airline.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[jdjbuffalo]

One idea that's been floated around, seen it on Slashdot too, is that people would supply the energy. It would be something like motion capture, heat capture or directly tapping into our bodies (a la the Borg).

Re:Ultramobile devices

[megaditto]

Quarter VGA isn't a whole lot of screen space (320x240 pixels).

Unfortunately, higher res wearable displays cost much more, and most are only really sold to the military, for whatever reason.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[Belial6]

We are not even close to having wearable computers sewn into jackets or sweaters. There are HUGE advances that need to be made that have nothing to do with size or power consumption before sewn in computers are feasible. The first is security. I know I have lost a jacket or two by leaving it in a restaurant when I left. How about when you go to an event that has coat checks. Having your data available to anyone with access to the coat closet isn't going to cut it.

Then there is cost. Many people have two, and I have no style. My wife has over half a dozen. You would need these computers to be sewn into each and every jacket. Plus, people would need to know how to 'install' their jackets.

A far more logical wearable computer would be something like jewelry, or a PDA that is small enough to fit in a pocket without ruining the lines of your clothes. I could see having power cords sewn into clothes, so that you could snap the tiny wearable computer onto your clothes, but then that is basically jewelry. Besides clothes are just not that durable. The only clothes that last as long as a computer are generally the ones you rarely wear.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[morgan_greywolf]

Well, the drive mentioned in the article uses only 300 mW of power.

Also, the power source people seem to overlook the most is people-power. You move, generating energy. You give off heat, generating energy. Even just sitting around thinking generates energy. Energy that could be captured and used to charge a battery. I also seem to remember a bunch of recent Slashdot articles about batteries. Sony's new biobattery that runs on sugar, along with high-density batteries that can store a lot of charge in a small space.

If we think about what technology is available, the dream of wearable computers can finally become reality.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[Anonymous Coward]

And look like a dork wearing it. Face it nerds! Normal people like me will NEVER wear anything with a computer built into it that's that obvious. Cell phones? Sure. iPods? Absolutely. A computer that needs text entry and at best a touch screen? No way. Not to mention the other obvious problem for NORMAL people: we don't tend to wear the same outfit every day and we bathe regularly. I would say that the only way this will work is if you create something that's more of a fashion accessory that happens to have a computing device built it. Or, even better, make sure it's so non-intrusive as to be invisible. I would say if you integrate it with some kind of ear implant or transparent ear piece, and build the display into contact lenses, and make sure it has voice control, then you might be getting somewhere. The beautiful people don't want to look like nerds.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[Arterion]

I wear a pocketpc on my waist everyday. It's also a cellphone, and has 600-700kbps data rates through cellular (EVDO). I'd call that wearable computing. It can do pretty much everything my desktop can except games. Sure, the interface isn't as good for some tasks, but it works. Oh, and a slide out QWERTY keyboard. There's really nothing else I could want on it, except maybe being a little easier to use. But that's just in software design, really. Nothing I couldn't fix myself, with a little time and creativity invested in writing my own version of MS BOB. Heh.

Re:Ultramobile devices

[KermitJunior]

Hey, I've had a dream about this world where people are farmed and raised as nothing more than batteries. Thankfully this dude named Neo saved us.

That's nothing

[techpawn]

I lost a few gig of SD memory in a keyboard one time by accident. So, we're actually moving backwards in size.

Re:That's nothing

[Midnight Thunder]

I lost a few gig of SD memory in a keyboard one time by accident. So, we're actually moving backwards in size.

Even easier with Micro-SD.

And next year...

[yuri82]

And in 2009 they will have it with 64GB, and the year after 256GB...

They probably have the technology for 256GB now, but why waste it all on one release?

Re:And next year...

[Anonymous Coward]

And in 2009 they will have it with 64GB, and the year after 256GB...

Why did you stop at 256GB? why didnt you mention higher in this post.. maybe saving for the next post for more karma?

karma:you::money:intel

Re:And next year...

[Anonymous Coward]

The strange thing about slashdot karma, you only get to enjoy it when you don't care about losing it.

Re:And next year...

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Intel we're talking about, right? If they had higher capacities available now, they'd release them all at once, on different pricing tiers, charging disproportionately more for the higher sizes. They've operated that way for at least ten years now.

I want one

[olddotter]

But isn't this yesterday's news? Or did I read it on yahoo over breakfast. I long for the days when slashdot was for news I didn't see on Yahoo first. But this is still cool technology. And means I should keep putting off buying a new iPod.

Re:I want one

[garcia]

But isn't this yesterday's news? Or did I read it on yahoo over breakfast. I long for the days when slashdot was for news I didn't see on Yahoo first. But this is still cool technology. And means I should keep putting off buying a new iPod.

I long for the days when Yahoo posted something and there was a community of people that responded to the content of the blurb (not the article of course!) and you got responses in the range of trolls all the way through insightful discussion, commentary and links to other pertinent (or not so) information.

Errr wait, nevermind.

Re:I want one

[jackpot777]

...I should keep putting off buying a new iPod.

Ah, we've all been there with technology. When I got my 2nd gen. iPod nano, I thought "wow, colour screen" and now I'm thinking "hmmm, no video."

Time to meander like the old man I am: I found a 3.5" floppy at home last week where I had written on the label: 'put onto new computer, maybe 1.4GHz'. Oooh, with 256 megs of RAM and a nice big 40 Gig hard drive... I just checked eBay, there's a HP WorkStation X2000 P4 going in the US for two hundred dollars with 512MB of RAM, and still with SCSI for my old scanner.

Or I can wait twenty years and they'll have a nanobot one for free in my Corkflakes (sans SCSI).

Re:I want one

[manifoldronin]

I long for the days when people come to /. for commenting and reading comments, instead of news. 8-)

Re:I want one

[stuboogie]

"Or I can wait twenty years and they'll have a nanobot one for free in my Corkflakes (sans SCSI)."

Corkflakes??

Is there going to be a corn shortage in the future due to global warming or will we find out that cork is not only high in fiber, but is great for your cholesterol!!

Re:I want one

[BarryJacobsen]

I long for the days when people come to /. for commenting and reading comments, instead of news. 8-) Since when did slashdot start offering news?

Re:I want one

[Sparr0]

When I got my 2nd gen. iPod nano, I thought "wow, colour screen" and now I'm thinking "hmmm, no video." That's just Apple screwing customers over when it comes to new software. There's no reason you can't play video on your nano. Get rid of Apple's crappy iPod OS, join all the happy RockBox users.

Re:I want one

[jdjbuffalo]

That's pretty much the only reason I come to Slashdot.

I can get news anywhere. There isn't another community around that I enjoy reading the comments on the latest news story.

Re:I want one

[jackpot777]

I checked out the link ...they don't have anything for the 2nd Gen iPod Nano yet (and I'm not risking the 1st Gen option in case it bricks the iPod). Their instruction manual didn't mention anything about 2nd Gen Nanos at all.

Er, so what?

[Speare]

Okay, so they made a chip that would fit in a microSDHC form factor. Is it faster? Is it lower-power? Is the interface more convenient? Is the chipset to host it already commonplace? Why would I want yet-another-memory-stick-format product in the already-crowded marketplace?

Re:Er, so what?

[tangent3]

and most importantly, how much does it cost per GB, compared to Flash?

Re:Er, so what?

[MBCook]

Read the story. This isn't to replace SD cards. This is a little chip to be built onto the motherboard of cell phones or iPods to hold the data, and for that it is much smaller than other offerings.

Re:Er, so what?

[Speare]

Okay, so they don't want to encase it in a piece of plastic with a big slider-pad for contacts. I'm sure SanDisk would be okay with direct integration of their storage chips onto motherboards too. I stand by my comment: this appears no different from existing capacities already available on the market. Why the huge press event?

Re:Er, so what?

[Pharmboy]

Read the article instead of trying to post first and karma whore. Most of your questions are answered there and it is only a few paragraphs.

Re:Er, so what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Go with your anger young Skywalker! Feel the hate!

Re:Er, so what?

[ivan256]

microSD caps out at 8GB right now, and even those aren't readily available...

Doubling capacity isn't press-release worthy anymore?

Re:Er, so what?

[Hal_Porter]

And they only work in microSD slots that support SDHC

Re:Er, so what?

[Alioth]

Open up an SD card, USB drive, Compact Flash card or whatever and inside... you'll find a chip packaged much in this way. The dimensions they describe are of a common-or-garden BGA (ball grid array) package, which has been used in electronics for _years_.

Re:Er, so what?

[owlstead]

What do you mean, *compared* to flash? This *is* flash. Maybe you mean compared to Secure Digital, or USB pen drives? Which one?

Re:Er, so what?

[ivan256]

SDHC is a software enhancement. The branding is required simply because many devices can't have their software modified after sale. Electrically, the devices are the same.

Re:Er, so what?

[Hal_Porter]

If you have a mobile phone that's a few years old it will be pretty hard to get the firmware updated to support SDHC since development on it ceased before SDHC was common. Most firmware updates are about fixing bugs, not adding features like SDHC support.

Re:Sheesh.

[Anonymous Coward]

ITTYAAAH

I think that you are an ass hat.

It's three times bigger than microSD

[adam1101]

The dimensions of this module are 18x12x1.8mm, which is more than three times the volume of microSD (15x11x0.7mm, which includes a plastic housing). Now some of the other features are nice (IDE controller, high speeds), but the size isn't anything amazing.

Re:It's three times bigger than microSD

[MBCook]

Yep. Now just tell me where I can get a 16 GB microSD card and I'll accept you as right. By the way, don't you think this device includes a housing too?

Even though the devices aren't even competing with each other. It's a tiny size for it's market segment and capacity.

Not 400 times smaller

[Anonymous Coward]

400 times smaller in volume than a 1.8-inch hard drive

Why do people say things like this?
Its size is 1/400 of a 1.8-inch hard drive, not 400*(the smallness of a 1.8-inch hard drive).

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[CarpetShark]

400 times smaller in volume than a 1.8-inch hard drive

Why do people say things like this?
Its size is 1/400 of a 1.8-inch hard drive, not 400*(the smallness of a 1.8-inch hard drive).

It's called capitalist marketing. Welcome to the show. Popcorn? ;)

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[jhines]

Remember how well the bimbo's that now read news did in math class?

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Anonymous Coward]

The Russian postdoc in our lab uses that sentence structure. I give him a pass, because I understand what the intended meaning is. Native English speakers should know better.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Hal_Porter]

It's called capitalist marketing. Welcome to the show. Popcorn? ;) Popcorn is only included in the Deluxe package. Would you like to upgrade now or continue with the Standard package? Don't worry, we'll keep asking until you upgrade.

Yeah PayPal, I'm looking at you.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

"Why do people say things like this?"

It rolls off the tongue more easily. Funny thing about the net, a lot of the text that's posted on it was originally derived by how people speak to each other. It can really wreak havoc on a brain that's too hard-wired. I remember nearly putting our finance guy into a coma by walking into the building with my baseball hat on backwards.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Anonymous Coward]

The greatness of your post is such that the number of better posts is less than one-half of one percent.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Kjella]

Ok, let us start by taking out "in volume", which is clearly there to avoid confusion with capacity, diameter (1/400th of 1.8"??) and whatever. "400 times smaller than a 1.8-inch hard drive", or "X times smaller than Y". Well, I do understand "X times larger than Y", does that mean 400*(the largeness of Y) then? Personally I'd say I just interpret that as 400*size, largeness is to me the same sort of subjective attribute as smallness.

To me it sounds perfectly reasonable that if X is 400 times larger than Y, then Y is 400 times smaller than X. I read the latter as Y = 400 ^-1 * X, since "smaller than" inverts the relation between X and Y. If I gave you a 1kg and 10kg weight, would you say they were ten times heavier/lighter? I would. If you saw a 300MHz machine against a 3GHz machine (same IPC, down boy) would you say they were ten times faster/slower? I would. If you had to run 1km or 10km, would you say they were time times longer/shorter? I wouldn't. I'd never say "ten times shorter than to...", but to me that seems to be the exception to the rule and bigger/smaller don't sound like one of them to me. Then again I'm not a native speaker, I just play one on slashdot ;).

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Sparr0]

If I gave you a 1kg and 10kg weight, would you say they were ten times heavier/lighter? I would. And you would be wrong TWICE. First, for the reason under discussion above (which is to say, I disagree with you). Second, and a personal pet peeve of mine, because 10kg is NINE times heavier than 1kg. 2kg is "one time(s)" (1*1kg) heavier than 1kg. 10kg is ten times *AS HEAVY* as 1kg, but not ten times *HEAVIER*, the "er" implying that youre starting at the weight of the lighter thing, not at zero.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Paul_Hindt]

Why don't they instead just say 0.0045 inches?

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[mrak and swepe]

I read it as meaning that its volume is -399 times the volume of a 1.8" hard drive, and it's -74 times as massive.

This didn't make any sense, so I stopped reading.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[fprintf]

Really? I thought the "times" referred to multiplication. We used to say "two times two equals four", or "1 times 10 equals 10". So the previous example is consistent with that. A 10kg weight is 10 times as heavy as a 1kg weight in my book.

I don't think it is additive - e.g. you "add" the weight 9 more times to get to ten.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[fprintf]

Ok, delete my post. I re-read yours and now it makes sense.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the phrase "Its size is 1/400 of X" is very ambiguous. If I have a model that is 1 inch long of a train that is 400 inches long, it is not unreasonable to say "my model is 1/400 the size of the original", even though the model has 64,000,000 times smaller volume.

Also, it is nice, when talking about numbers, not to have to use fractions. That's why we talk about a frequency of 441 Hz and not a period of 1/441 seconds.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[Anonymous Coward]

No no no. A thousand times no.

"As heavy" and "heavier" are identical in usage. This is not some game like you play with percentages. Something that is 100% heavier is, indeed, twice as heavy. 10kg is 900% heavier than 1kg. But it is not nine times heavier. It is ten times heavier. Two times heavier than 1kg is not 3kg, it is 2kg. Your usage is nonsensical, nonstandard, and simply wrong.

Re:Not 400 times smaller

[dfeist]

Well, in fact, if you define smallness=1/size, there is no problem.

Specific Gravity 1.0?

[Anonymous Coward]

smaller than a penny, and weighing less than a drop of water

Less dense than water? Wow, for once floating-gate technology actually floats!

Memory low...

[nonos]

.. please insert coin !

English Penny

[Nom du Keyboard]

Of course, that might be an old proper English "penny", which was a significant hunk of metal.

In the USA we don't have pennies. We have cents, each of which is worth 1/100 of a dollar.

Re:English Penny

[Pharmboy]

You appear to have no sense. We still call them pennies here in the USA, even if it isn't the official term.

Re:English Penny

[GogglesPisano]

Now this is a prime example of why standard units are so important.

As I understand it, here on Slashdot, size is expressed in units of Library of Congresses. Let's do a few quick calculations:

So, uh, lessee... a US penny is .75 inches across... the Library of Congress has approximately 530 miles of shelf space... ...carry the two...

That means that this new chip is 2.2334E-08 Library of Congresses in size.

Happy to Help!

Re:English Penny

[serialdogma]

Why deal with old pre-1707 English pennies, when a new one pence piece is called a penny? At 2cm diameter, this would be still quite small.

What are the percentage costs

[Deliveranc3]

of interface and controller?

Seems like they might be significant...

Re:What are the percentage costs

[KokorHekkus]

Why should interface and controller costs be significant? It's certainly going to be less than for a regular drive since you won't have to deal with anything electromechanical. And if you compare with something similar as USB thumb drives they've come down so much in price that you can find them for a song in supermarkets these days... and they all have controller and interface electronics in them.

In similar fashion:

[Anonymous Coward]

Stand down!

Re:Sheesh.

[RandoX]

FU.

Breakfast Cereal

[Easy2RememberNick]

It would make a great breakfast cereal if you had a whole bunch of them in a bowl covered in milk, and yes, of course, it would be called GigaBites.

Re:Breakfast Cereal

[Anonymous Coward]

A bowl covered in milk? Some form of frozen dome perhaps?

Re:Breakfast Cereal

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure any cereal like that would have to go for the name "MegaBites".

beginning of the end for hard drives

[Jeff1946]

My current laptop with XP and Office is using about 13Gb of disk. No movie files, etc. So this could be my C: drive right now and I could use regular flash for data storage. Add a more efficient display (LED lit or eventually organic polymer) and new generation of efficient processor and you have a great portable system that would serve the needs of most folks.

Re:beginning of the end for hard drives

[Hal_Porter]

I used a Fujitsu Siemens ultraportable for ages and that had a 20GB drive and a 1Ghz processor with XP. So yeah, 16GB is fine in an ultraportable.

Re:beginning of the end for hard drives

[peragrin]

Actually I am waiting for something even better.

the core OS stored on one of these things. The boot loader loads the OS drive read only. The OS loads and runs. Swap, applications, etc are then stored on the regular HD.

Benefits boot times are quicker, but more importantly viruses can't modify the core OS. At least beyond a reboot. Think of it as a live CD for any computer. Security for even MSFT's software would be high.

Though knowing MSFt they would allow the drive to be switched to R/W by windows update.

I've heard this before

[CarpetShark]

I lost a few gig of SD memory in a keyboard one time by accident. So, we're actually moving backwards in size.

I've heard that story before, except then, the SD memory was a flute, and the keyboard was... well... at band camp.

yahoo news links...

[Anonymous Coward]

...expire pretty fast. Just sucks if you remember something and want to go back and look things up again for some reason. Besides, slashdot is way more for the discussion than for the news links. The news links *lead* to the discussions where we get what slashdot is still good for, a variety of peoples insight(good bad and trollish and humorous, the whole mix). If all you want is news, just use an rss reader and hit the major wire services and a few press release places and the top 20 or so tech colleges and cancel out of cruising slashdot, there's nothing for you here and you are wasting your time and electrons.

HTH

How many drops of water?

[XPisthenewNT]

So how many drops of water is the Library of Congress?

Re:How many drops of water?

[Yvan256]

Since the Library of Congress is 20 TeraBytes, and that 16 GigaBytes weights less than one drop of water (let's round the weight to one drop), that means 20TB / 16GB = 1280 drops of water, and one drop of water is about 0.05ml, that means 1280 / 20 = 64 ml of water.

Re:How many drops of water?

[XPisthenewNT]

haha, that is amazing, thank you!

I swear to God

[ale_ryu]

I read the title as Penis Sized Flash Module, and thought intel was trying a different approach to get a bigger share of the ladies market...

Re:I swear to God

[davidsyes]

Wow...

Penis-Sized... and Tastecicles... what proximity... but, to get to the minor point...

I was half expecting references to "A penis for your kiss, an nuzzle for your thoughts, a hind if you tell me that you love me..."

(IRT: A penny for your thoughts, a nickel for a kiss.. a diiiime if you tell me that you love me..."

Hehehe

It's not a memory stick format, dipshit.

[Anonymous Coward]

title says it all. This is part of the chipset, as in integrated, not a memory stick. RTFS

Disambiguity...

[Tastecicles]

"400 times smaller in volume than a 1.8-inch hard drive" ...As compared to what?

"and at 0.6 grams, 75 times lighter." ...As compared to what?

Are we talking 1/400 the volume of an average 1.8" HDD (at 9mm thick that'd make the 1.8" drive with a volume of 18812.86cu.mm, giving a volume for the flash of 47.03cu.mm) and 1/75 the mass? (come to think of it, I don't think I've come across a 1.8" HDD that masses in at 45 grammes... that'd be pretty damn heavy for a hard drive that size. Also would make for one very dense material. What're they making these drives out of, dead neutron stars?).

Not 0.7.. 1.0, making for 2.36

[Animaether]

Yes, MicroSD is still smaller. That said, Wikipedia (I guess you consulted Wikipedia) is incorrect in its leading summary. The card is not 0.7mm thick, it is about 1mm thick (0.95mm according to my vernier scale). Funnily enough, the table in the bottom of the Wikipedia article lists 1.0mm as well. The 0.7mm seems to come from the connector part.

So to adjust for your calculations...
MicroSD = 15*11*1.0 = 165
Intel's thingy = 18*12*1.8 = 388.8

388.8 / 165 ~= 2.36

Anyway, the more important bit is that it does have the IDE controller already on it... go add the controller chip for the SD standard to a device and you'll add a nice bit of volume as well :)

Re:Not 0.7.. 1.0, making for 2.36

[Khalid]

I hope you have corrected this :) this is all what Wikipedia is about.

Incorrect unit for size used please correct it.

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

I find that the summary uses "penny size" to describe the size of the chip. Slashdot Standard Units Manual, clearly states that the preferred units for length is football fields, (as in my bookshelf is 0.01 football fields wide).

Similarly preferred units data size is libraries of congress (as in sigfile in /. should be less than 80 femto libraries of congress)

For weight it is locomotives. As in "The sun weighs 3.72 tera locomotives)

And for flow rate it is Amazon river. The new regulations reduced the maximum flow rate for shower heads from 1.6 atto amazons to 1.2 atto amazons.

For volume the preferred units is number of Earths that could be stuffed into it. As in "The asteroid Gzibpat has the volume of 0.1 micro Earths.

So please recalculate the volume of the chip in Earths and resubmit the story.

Re:Incorrect unit for size used please correct it.

[corsec67]

No, the unit for volume is the VW Bug, unless it is REALLY big, and then it is Earths.

Re:Incorrect unit for size used please correct it.

[cmacb]

NOW I feel bad for not doing more meta-modding. Unless whoever modded this "informative" were themselves trying to be funny, /. seems to be losing its sense of humor.

Well, it's a good post anyway, regardless what you call it I guess.

Re:Incorrect unit for size used please correct it.

[DMUTPeregrine]

Funny does not give karma. Informative does. People mod things infomative/insightful/interesting to give the poster karma that they otherwise miss out on by being funny.

Truth in advertising

[somepunk]

When I saw them comparing pennies for volume and water for weight, I knew there was some funny business afoot. A drop of water weight a damn lot less than a penny, so (even allowing a lot of room for variation in density) this flash thingie is likely a lot smaller than a penny, or a lot heavier than a drop of water, or they would have chosen some smaller familiar item to compare it with. That, combined with the fact that a "drop of water" is not exactly a well defined quantity, and it screams out for a fact check.

A quick google brought up a freshman chemistry lab report, in microsoft word format, even. Not exactly the paragon of authority, but it is well known that freshman chemistry students have a far greater respect for the truth then marketers.

Their value for the mass of a drop of water is .025 grams, which is twenty-four times less than the .6 grams that the mass of the flash memory. I thought so.

It isn't hard to imagine a .6 gram drop of water, actually, just to be fair to those dorks, but I don't think it would resemble the familiar ones that most of us are accumstomed to.

$640K

[Anonymous Coward]

$640K should be enough for anyone.

someone had to say it.

Does a drop of water weigh the same on the moon?

[giafly]

weighing less than a drop of water

In lower gravity everything weighs less, including water. But a drop should be able to grow bigger before it breaks from a dripping tap/faucet and falls. Maybe these two effects cancel out, making the "drop of water" a useful standard weight for everywhere in the solar system.

Or maybe Intel's PR team are full of Christmas spirit and have bet each other to use randomly-chosen phrases.

OELD display + Silverthorne + Flash SSD

[chipace]

There are a lot of great new technologies reaching production soon... computing form factors are ready for a big change. I would love to see a range of products based on Sony's 13inch OELD, Intel's silverthrone and small flash SSDs.

Small memory

[Taser]

Making it even easier to lose large amounts of personal records!!

Actually, I'd love to see these serve as "wetware" direct-to-brain memory enhancements. My brain seems to have been leaking memory capacity ever since I've been a parent (currently 3yo and a bundle of energy).

Imagine a b...

[Anonymous Coward]

So a 3.5" SSD could hold 3200 of these, eh? That'd be 50TB.
If we could build such (or anything even magnitude worse in terms of density), why are data centers still filled with sluggish, big, unreliable, electricity hogging, obsolete etc 15krpm moving-parts-tech?

The NEW news

[OxFF52]

Intel produced a "mobile internet device", MID, earlier in the year... and it of course came with a 1.8 inch hard-drive with Mobile Windows. (http://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS2312330067.html

The problems with this was that you have to boot windows from a hard-drive, put it in suspend, watch your battery life dissipate, then scrap it for uselessness.

So Intel adds a smaller SSD memory for Linux and provides "instant on" features.

While this is not revolutionary, it does indicate where things are going. Everyone is already used to "instant on" mobile phones. The iPhone has the capabilities of an entire operating system, and the latest iPod is basically the iPhone without the phone.

What is GREAT about this is that Intel recognizes the "consumer demand" and isn't holding to the Wintel architecure of the past. While a MID by itself will never be marketable, it paves the way for Intel (and other manufacturers) to more quickly respond to market demands.

Sooner or later, devices will interact better such that you can simply set your [mobile device] next to ANY keyboard, display, printer, fax and use the applications and data at hand without complicated configuration.

Menlow

[RobBebop]

I started looking into Intel's Menlow Platform, and it appears that a company called Elektrobit is developing the first device which uses it.

http://www.elektrobit.com/index.php?599

They are calling their product the "EB Mobile Internet Multimedia Device, MIMD" which is a boring an unexciting name, but it looks like it will be available by next year. I like the larger sized keyboard it includes.

Why wait until 2008?

[PhotoGuy]

6GB for $100, a lot smaller than a penny:

http://www.sandisk.com/Products/ProductInfo.aspx?ID=2447

The article refers to 40mb/sec, which is faster than the 5 to 10mb/sec the linked product will do. Other than speed, is there any advantage to the Intel offering?

Wow...Got a little dizzy.......

[FunkyRider]

And read it as: Penis-sized Flash ........ That must be one hell of a flash

Re:Wow...Got a little dizzy.......

[bratwiz]

And the best part is that the larger it grows, the more it can hold, which makes it great for storing p0rn.

Interface for flash drives

[owlstead]

Currently all the flash interfaces are the default interfaces for hard drives: PATA, SATA and even USB. Now one of the advantages of flash is the extremely low latency (seek times) compared with hard drives. Now I know that flash memory will still lag significantly compared with DRAM, but a question springs to mind: should PATA/SATA really be the interface for flash drives? Won't these interfaces slow down seek times?

You would probably use this memory module in products as logical replacement as a hard drive only. There is no need for smaller flash drives if you use a standard drive bay. So why is having a PATA/SATA connection so important? Why not go for maximum performance and functionality instead? Why not make a flash SSD interface that more closely matches flash drive functionality?

The reason I ask is because I have already read reviews in which the SATA interface was much slower than the PATA interface for 'seek' times. And that was talking about a 5-10 x difference (!). Ok, this might sound a bit like ask slashdot, but does anyone know about the best interface to use (direct PCI-e?) and if a change of interface would really help?

Re:Interface for flash drives

[Anonymous Coward]

Great post owlstead.

You are exactly right in that both PATA and SATA are bus systems that aren't optimal for NAND flash. In fact, there's a lot of noise being generated between the various giants (Toshiba, Samsung) fighting with the smaller guys (Intel, Micron) over who's going to specify the latest bus protocol for NAND SSDs.

If you have access to IEEE pre-submissions, you'll see some proposals being driven by this guy:
http://www.intel.com/pressroom/kits/bios/kgrimsrud.htm

It's similar to the battle for the bus on the other side of the controller, where the smaller players are rallying around ONFI.

Well 1.8" HD is at 160GB for a while now.

[pH7.0]

Well 1.8" HD is at 160GB for a while now and HD is still much cheaper than flash.
So the real question is can flash double its capacity faster than HD?

Re:Well 1.8" HD is at 160GB for a while now.

[Ant P.]

Hard disks are approaching the density limit already. After that they're pretty much done for, since solid-state drives don't have disks' biggest limitations: 2 dimensions and pi(r^2).

Natural Law

[jgoemat]

And in 2009 they will have it with 64GB, and the year after 256GB...

That's just silly. Moore's law clearly states that capacity doubles every 18 months. So in Summer 2009 they will have 32GB and in spring 2011 they will have 64GB. They won't have 256GB until spring of 2014...

Math

[slapout]

So if they put a bunch of these into a the space of a 1.8" hard drive, you'd end up with a 800GB solid state hard drive. Course, it would probably cost more than it's weight in gold.

Re:Math

[Dr. Zowie]

Gold is pretty cheap, even at current prices of $800/oz -- a gram of the stuff is only $30. You probably want to compare to a metal that is actually precious, like (say) rhodium at $240/gram.

Re:Math

[slapout]

Wow. Guess I need to update my idioms.

Re:Math

[bratwiz]

That's Rhodidiom.

Smaller is Better?

[killmofasta]

Is Smaller realy better?

I am ALL for shrinking components to make them more powerfull, but I dont think making them unusable is a selling point.

I just lost a 256MB Mini-SD card, with some pictures of a guys dog who just died. Someone threw it out, that thought it was a little big for a postage stamp, but wasnt any stamp that they recognised.

Well, the Mini-SD card is now found, but I am against the size factor. Faced with the design of floppies, Sony chose the 3 1/2 inch disk? Why 3 1/2? Based upon the size of pockets. Now, Why are mens shirt pockets 3 1/2? Not because of the size of American cigarette packs, but based upon the size of European cigarette pack! The point Im trying to make is that the size should be based upon uselfullness. If your going to make a smart card, why not just standardize on a credit card? or a Pen? Havent Flash drives standardized on double pen size? and now that they have standardized, they are going to expand on design, based upon usibility, vs just utilitarian function.

Look at what happened to the pocket calculator, first there was a lot of diffrentation of utility, then uniformity of function, then diffrentation of usibility. Its the best example, whereas, formula 1 cars have an extrodinary uniformity of design.

With all the formats, (we now have 12-in-one readers at Frys) and ugrades to take advantage of both the size and capacity...new cameras, readers... marketing, sales, infastructure...

How many of us have old format media around? I was looking at a box of 5 1/4 floopies...

Now that this is announced, when will it become obsolute like SmartMedia? After enough people loose their media? ( or it becomes self replicating dust of the diamond age? )

Re:Smaller is Better?

[MichaelSmith]

Is Smaller realy better?

I have a small USB stick which would be easy to lose except it lives in my wallet along with a lot of other small, valuable things.

Re:Smaller is Better?

[bratwiz]

I'm unclear, who died, the dog or the guy?

Data Sheet

[Eddy_D]

Here is the web page containing the data sheet:

http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/z-p140/index.htm

Looks to be a drop-in for a standard IDE PATA hard-drive... cool.

- Eddy_D

Its the Innovation!

[softdevs]

Now adays flash drive are getting smaller and smaller.Java Programming

fast mirror

[DoctorEternal]

http://lynxcache.com/Penny_sized_flash_drive_holds_16GB.html