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Newmark Denies Craigslist Is Killing Newspapers

Ian Lamont writes "Computerworld has an interview with Craig Newmark about the history of Craigslist and it's growth over the years (it's now expanding into foreign-language markets — it recently created several Spanish sites in Spanish cities). He also disputes the notion that Craigslist is responsible for dismantling newspapers' revenue models. Rather, he blames niche-classified sites like autotrader.com and Monster as well as newspapers' unrealistic profit expectations in the new media world: 'Newspapers are going after 10% to 30% profit margins for their businesses and that hurts them more than anything. A lot of things are happening on the Internet that never happened before because the Internet is a vehicle for everyone. The mass media is no longer only for the powerful, and that's a huge change for the entire newspaper and news industry."

13 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Newspapers: A necessary waste? by Asmor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    On the one hand, the newspaper's days are numbered. Who wants to go outside and dig their paper out of the snow to read yesterday's news when they can go online and get what's happening right now?

    On the other hand, that's a damn shame. All the news media in recent times has become, frankly, a laughing stock, but newspapers it seems have held onto the most integrity (not that that's saying much). More importantly, we need someone who can pay reporters to investigate the government, and bloggers just aren't going to cut it.

    I fear living in a world where the only things a government has to worry about are citizen journalists and internal leaks.

    1. Re:Newspapers: A necessary waste? by UbuntuDupe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      On the one hand, the newspaper's days are numbered. Who wants to go outside and dig their paper out of the snow to read yesterday's news when they can go online and get what's happening right now? Because they prefer being able to hold something in their hands with high "resolution" while not risking damaging an expensive item, and which is easier on their eyes, and which can compactly contain information about local events and businesses that haven't reconciled everything with Google maps just yet.

      Not saying newspapers are superior, just listing advantages, and one of the reasons I've considered getting a subscription.
    2. Re:Newspapers: A necessary waste? by corychristison · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I hear ya.

      The newspaper is stale and (here) it costs more than it is worth. You get little to no news, the only thing worth looking at is the crossword or sudoku. I haven't subscribed to the paper since I moved into my most recent apartment (11 months ago on the new year).

      We have a community website that is run by one of the local radio stations... it has fairly "up-to-the-minute" updates and is generally very informative. It's entirely free and funded by advertising from LOCAL businesses. Being a business owner, I've noticed a fairly steady increase in traffic since I've gotten some ads put up.

    3. Re:Newspapers: A necessary waste? by Vellmont · · Score: 3, Insightful


      Who wants to go outside and dig their paper out of the snow to read yesterday's news when they can go online and get what's happening right now?

      People who don't want to have to sit in front of a computer to do so? Paper isn't such a bad technology.


      All the news media in recent times has become, frankly, a laughing stock, but newspapers it seems have held onto the most integrity (not that that's saying much). More importantly, we need someone who can pay reporters to investigate the government, and bloggers just aren't going to cut it.

      And that's why newspapers will survive. We need paid people that are going to do the legwork and investigation. Where do you go to get news on the internet? As you say, the print media are the ones with the best stories. Not everyone might subscribe the the paper edition, but they'll still go to the website. Newspapers really make money off advertising anyway, not subscriptions.

      The real problem with newspapers is just what Craig said. Investors expect really high profit margins of 10-30%. They aren't going out of business, but the business is certainly changing.

      --
      AccountKiller
    4. Re:Newspapers: A necessary waste? by mastershake_phd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What the hell?! That actually happens, with newspaper thrown in the yard? I thought that was just on TV and the game Paper Boy!

      Here in civilized countries our paperboys walk up to the front door and shove the papers through our mail slots, or (if we have a mailbox) they shove it into the mailbox.

      (Or they dump the papers in the garbage and go back to sleep; I believe this is a cross-cultural thing)
       
       
      Time is money, if houses are far apart and/or not close to the road a lot of paper delivery people will just throw it in the driveway. I had a job where I did nothing but bring a new newspaper to anyone who called up and said their paper landed in a puddle, snow bank, on their roof, or was missing a section, etc. When people would call up and complain I would suggest they tip their delivery person better. The paper lost a lot of customers. Deliveries were handled by private contractors, thats the free market at work. If your getting $.15 cents a paper you sure can't spend 2 minutes on each one.
       
      But, back on topic, the paper was doing so bad they had meetings with everyone in the company 25 at a time to brainstorm ideas to increase readership or cut costs. Naturally I didn't mention that I, and most in my office, spent the majority of my days reading the paper. Anyway, this graph they showed us plotted a steady decline in readership from the early 90's to the present (early 2004). They were bleeding customers, and probably still are. There were a lot of suggestions (mostly bad), but there isn't much they can do, and besides relentlessly pushing heavily discounted subscriptions, it doesn't seem they've changed much. They do own a rather popular local web portal, so i suppose they are making up some of their losses. Strangely there are many small free papers around still. I guess the newspaper as we know it is still going to be here for a while to come.

    5. Re:Newspapers: A necessary waste? by Asmor · · Score: 4, Insightful


      All the news media in recent times has become, frankly, a laughing stock, but newspapers it seems have held onto the most integrity (not that that's saying much). More importantly, we need someone who can pay reporters to investigate the government, and bloggers just aren't going to cut it.

      And that's why newspapers will survive. We need paid people that are going to do the legwork and investigation. Close, but you're missing the point a bit... That is not why newspapers will survive, that is why they must survive.

      Unfortunately, while hard-hitting investigative journalism is very necessary to the continued functioning of society, it is not something which is profitable. Since it is not profitable, it doesn't seem likely that it will survive.

      You and I may think it's worth paying for that, but by and large Americans do not. They're perfectly happy to sit and watch entertainment programs like their local Faux News, where they can hear about the puppy that was rescued from a burning building by a cat. Meanwhile, since it's got "news" in the title, they feel like they're actually learning about what's going on in the world without having to do any of that "reading" thing the teachers kept trying to cram down their throats in school.

      Make no mistake, I agree with you that newspapers are important, but I don't think that they're going to be able to survive.
    6. Re:Newspapers: A necessary waste? by sm62704 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I disagree. I think the newspapers' godoffal web sites with all the blinkey flashey advertising and javascript asking you if you want to debug it and the same story endlessly linked over and over on its index page is what is killing newspapers.

      People are starting to realise that newspapers are published, edited, and written by utter morons.

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
  2. Craigslist kills newspapers. So fucking what? by SamP2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's funny to see someone bothering to repute claims that Craigslist "kills" newspapers. The question is not whether it does or doesn't (and IMO it does in a way), but why should we care?

    It's a free market out there. Craigslist is able to offer services better than newspapers. Newspapers should either adapt to compete, or they deserve to die. Why should there be some kind of welfare state for newspapers where they have to be supported externally, or even more important, why should better technologies be attacked for outcompeting worse ones?

    Do you attack cars for "killing" horse-and-carriage? Do you attack e-mail for reducing profits of snail mail/fax sales (and it did by a very large margin)? If the technology is able to better provide the service, it is the one that deserves to get the market.

    I understand that many people base the argument like that "Newspapers offer content we like, but can only be funded by ads. Now people use craigslist for ads instead of papers, so papers have no money to publish other content with". While this may seem more indirect, I don't see why this is any more valid than the earlier example. If people are not willing to pay for the content on its own (via newspaper sales), then maybe you should move out of the market, or actually make your content worthwhile.

    The "broadsheet" papers which actually offer content you don't see on a typical news site for free (such as in-depth editorials) are the ones that are still selling. If all your paper had is a bulletpoint list of recent events and a local buy-sell section, then why does it deserve to live in the first place, when you can get both free online (the first from any news site, the second from Craigslist). And if you claim your paper supposedly brings some value to the "good old mom-and-pop local community", then get the community to pay for it, either through a local tax the community agrees on, or through increased paper prices. If the community is not willing to pay either, than guess what, the value your paper provides to the community just isn't good enough for them to pay for.

    Either offer something that's good on its own (and better than the competition), or get the hell out of the business. The protectionist neoluddism of "papers being oppressed by the evil Craigslist" is seriously pissing me off.

  3. So what? by Thaelon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So what if the Craigslist IS killing the newspaper industry? I don't see anyone getting up in arms about the automobile killing the horse drawn carriage industry.

    Times change. Business models face extinction just as species do.

    --

    Question everything

  4. Problem with newspapers is the loss of the local.. by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Reporters. I watched the local paper, the St. Louis Post Distpatch, go steadily down hill over the past few years. Every year it got thinner and thinner to the point where all it was good for was the local sports report. Last year, my father dropped his subscription. Especially when he finally got high speed internet and realized the articles he wanted was on their website STLToday.

    All the paper consisted of was were wire reports. Usually the exact same content I had read via Yahoo or Cnn.com the day before. There was very little local investigative journalism. They did a 5-part expose on the local fire districts and some stuff that was going on there with the wives of firefighters being elected to boards/etc. Back in 2005. But not much since.

    I forget the lady's name (The old woman in front row of the White House daily briefings (Helen something). She wrote a book about this topic a few years ago and she pointed out that it was this lack of in depth local news reporting was the major reason why newspapers were loosing so much readership. Her reason is that hiring investigative reports and having a real news room is expensive. So in order to boost short term profits....

    This boils down to one thing: Content. You have good content, people will come. It doesn't matter if that is on the web or in print.

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
  5. Re:one big reason why craigslist is successful by ScrewMaster · · Score: 3, Insightful

    All you're saying (and I agree with you) is that Craigslist found something that worked, and has been conservative in making gratuitous changes. Now that's smart, because it serves to keep giving people what they want, rather than forcing them to continually adapt to a changing product. When you do that, you give them a reason to find an alternative that they might like more.

    Some people like the fact that every time they go to their favorite site it's something new and different ... and some people don't.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  6. Old Media has manufactured the conditions by Phoenix666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    for their own downfall.

    Radio has been killed by ClearChannel's near total monopoly of the airwaves. Yes, they no longer have competition in radio, but they've ended the diversity held the audience's attention, and pushed commercials up to the point where you have to wade through 10 minutes of used-car ads to get to the 4 minutes of bland commercial pop.

    Newspapers, meanwhile, stopped doing real journalism 15 years ago. It's much easier to pay a fee for AP articles and an editor to arrange them on a page around ad space than to keep on a staff of journalists doing in-depth investigative pieces; heck, it's even cheaper to change a couple words in the press releases companies send to newspapers these days and print them verbatim than to license AP articles--that's what more and more "news" outlets are doing these days.

    TV, well, reality programs are boring, and commercials are annoying, and the few programs worth watching are in endless re-runs thanks to the writer's strike; or, the movies they run on cable are just promotional vehicles for the sequels that are coincidentally debuting next Friday.

    Movies and music. /. readers know that story so I won't regurgitate it.

    In short, greed, corporatism (is that redundant with greed?), and focus group-tested pap that the old media have pumped out in the last decade to maximize profits has alienated the audience. Craigslist and other segments of the Internet are simply doing a better job of taking over the few useful activities the old used to perform, but without all the baggage.

    Everyone on /. knows this. The interesting thing will be to observe what happens when Craigslist and its cohorts sell out to the same corporate interests for the big score and start degrading the content. Will new challengers spring up online to steal their lunch in the same manner?

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  7. Horse-drawn carriage replaces cars; no-one minds by bonaldi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There are a lot of people pretty chuffed with their horse-and-carriage-beaten-by-car analogy; nobody seems to notice that the replacement isn't better, it's *worse*. As a newspaper, Craiglist sucks. But it has taken over one of the key ways newspapers make money.

    It's not a straightforward "outdated business model" this: the model's been outdated since the radio came along. Nobody needs to buy news: we're drowning in free news. But we do need to live in a society where politicians and the powerful are held to account, where corruption is exposed and so on. The best way we've seen so far for doing this is investigative journalism, which isn't cheap. In fact, journalism is incredibly expensive to create. There isn't a single newspaper website out there that can afford to pay for the cost of its journalism by itself; they rely on subsidy from their print operations.

    A Free Press isn't free. It has just been our luck that newspapers could make enough money from small ads to pay for all the journalists without actually having to try and sell us the unsellable (news). That luck is running out.