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KDE's Version Timing Drops It In Ubuntu Support Priority
News.com is reporting that the next version of Ubuntu will see KDE unsupported, but only for the time being. Because of the dramatic changeover from KDE 3.5 to 4.0, Ubuntu sponsor Canonical is unwilling to initially support the popular Linux GUI. Gnome will still be supported, and the company expects to return support to kubuntu soon. "Developer interest is focused on KDE 4.0, but it's not mature enough yet to use in the next KDE-based variation of Ubuntu, called Kubuntu, Scott James Remnant, leader of the Ubuntu Desktop team, said in an explanation to a Kubuntu mailing list. But most Kubuntu developers adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5."
The next version of Kubuntu/Ubuntu would have been an LTS, which means that it would be aimed at those who expected a long life out of an operating system, such as enterprise users.
KDE 4.0, in its current, and rather buggy state, does not fit the bill.
Previously kubuntu release have been synchronous with the ubuntu releases, this decision breaks that pattern which is why it is news. It looks as if ubuntu and kubuntu may actually diverge enough to become separate distributions.
ubuntu wants to kick a release out the door every 6 months, i think it would be wise to release once a year and no more frequent than that, the rest of the Linux distros & community works at a slower pace than ubuntu wants to run at...
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
my fancy blue Kubuntu splash screen isn't going to work any more.
... adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5. Someone's not been paying attention to the point of LTS - the point is that since there is no addition of major features, there's less risk involved, making it a better choice for those seeking stability. Zonk's next accepted feature: FreeBSD - too many versions?News.com reports that only damned fools would go for FreeBSD 5.5 - where no major features have been added for years. Server maintainers should get with the program and start download FreeBSD 8 alphas - it has something called superpages and network stack virtualization, and while none of us know what that means, the names are impressive.
The Gutsy version of Kubuntu broke a _lot_ of things on my powerbook. Up until this release I was really happy with Linux on it, rating it well above OS X for geeks. Right now I'm seriously considering reverting back to Feisty.
So, with that in mind, it's actually nice to see them declare that something won't be working _before_ I waste time trying to upgrade to it. I can then make an informed decision about what to do, instead of using a half assed release that would disappoint me. Not meeting expectations is about the worst thing you can do to your credibility.
Beep beep.
Looking at the mailing list message linked from the article clears up things. Kubuntu 8.04 will not be "unsupported" - it will simply not be an LTS (long-term support) release. This means that it will "only" be supported for 18 months on the desktop instead of three years.
Also, the concern is not whether features will still be being added to 3.5, but whether bugs fill be fixed upstream. From TFM: "Will a bug in KDE 3.5 receive upstream attention in March 2011?"
Disclaimer: I am GNOME user for eight years, but I recommend KDE for powerusers. Thanks God that we have choice.
Problem is very simple - KDE guys don't guarantee that KDE 3.5 will be supported next 3 years (which is obvious - KDE 4 is just around the corner and all development efforts will be channelled to it), but KDE 4 won't be useful until end of next year (basis is there, but lot of stuff must be ported). So it is kinda dumb situation. However, Kubuntu 8.04 WILL be released, it just won't be 3 years supported, aka LTS, but tradicionally 18 months, which is half of that time. After that, Kubuntu 8.10 release will contain KDE 4 at it's best.
So - not kinda cool that there won't be LTS for KDE, but still - there will be release.
p.s. it is a little bit sad that rather fine article summary contains somehow weak attempt to cause flamewar. Yes, KDE is popular, but also is GNOME - I know lot of KDE fanboys has problems to admit that (ohh, and it is similar with GNOME fanboys to admit that KDE is desktop of choice for many people, of course).
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
I think this move is a mistake because the goal of Ubuntu has been to lessen the gap between non-technical users and Linux gurus. This introduces another layer of complexity for those non-technical users. I think it's a mistake to mix LTS and non-LTS in same-numbered/named versions of the OS. They have a variety of options here and I think they picked the worst of the lot. They should just add it to a community maintained repository or a backport from the next version.
Someone with an active interest in Linux isn't likely to be confused, but there's a growing number of Linux users who don't follow Linux as an interest, it's just the thing on their computer. More than most other distros, those are the people that Ubuntu has been trying to cater to. I think they chose the worst possible option given their target audience.
It might seem ridiculous to think a seemingly minor detail could confuse or scare off people, but after years of working in support (and I think any support representatives would agree) you might be surprised at how easily people form mental blocks and shut down (mentally) when faced with any computer-related issue. When you walk someone through a process and a button doesn't say exactly what you indicate, they panic. To them "END" is not the same as "FINISH" or "DONE, even though they should all mentally register as a word signifying completion. And then they won't even tell you the name of the button that appeared on their screen, they'll only tell you that they don't see the one you said, like you're playing some sort of sadistic "I Spy" riddle game. Sorry for the digression. Old trauma.
(I'm not knocking Ubuntu for catering to non-technical users. I prefer Ubuntu myself, though I've been a Linux user much longer.)
Going by the way kubuntu normally works, I'd be surprised if it came down to much more than adding a second repository to get access to kde4 packages.
Everything will be taken away from you.
KDE or emacs?
Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
I can see that Kubuntu 8.04 will be released without LTS. Fair enough.
But this is just confusing. Will it use KDE 3.5, or will it use KDE 4.0?
or rather KED is "done when it's done" and Ubuntu needs a full cycle of completion before they'll claim LTS status for KED 4. In this case KDE 4 will only have been released 3 months before Canonical has to make a decision on wether to be tied to that release for 5 years. Ubuntu is much smaller than Red Hat or Suse and they don't want to play the games of supporting backports and cross-grades like done with the various boxed versions of Suse or RHEL. They waited until an odd time to release that's on nobody else's schedule.. The more politically correct thing might be to delay the LTS release in general then fewer feelings would be hurt.
The situation is not that KDE 4 is "not supported" but the combo in 8.04 will include BOTH 3.5 and 4.0! but only for the standard 18 months. Then the 8.10 will be fully supported for 4.0 only and probably LTS as well. It's a matter of Canonical not wanting to be tied up supporting bleeding edge releases just yet. Remember, Red Hat and Suse don't SUPPORT the free versions for customers, only the carefully limited pay-for versions and if you go "off the reservation" with upstream updates, they tell you to reinstall the base just like other commercial OS vendors do. Part of the Ubuntu experience is that there is no artificial divide between the "open source" and the "tweaked" versions.. it's their stated interest to work CLOSER to the upstream source, not wall their stuff off to versions they have to babysit for 5 years like RH or Suse has.
I imagine a lot of Ubuntu's users don't want to be guinea pigs for KDE 4, and to claim 3 years support for something that will only be supported for a fraction of that time would be dishonest. Besides 18 months of support isn't that bad considering with Ubuntu's 6 month release schedule they'll be on something like 10.2 before support for 8.4 will be gone.
Kubuntu 8.04 is still planned to be released alongside Ubuntu 8.04, just without long-term service as previously planned. That just means the Gnome stuff in 8.04 will receive security updates longer than the KDE stuff in 8.04.
I use Kubuntu. Right now KDE is in a major transition phase, moving from KDE3/qt3 to KDE4/qt4 is a bigger change than Gnome has ever done, seriously. While a few things survive porting it's fairly close to a rewrite of everyting KDE is. Supporting KDE4 for a LTS is a "no way" kind of thing, it'll barely be released and KDE has some creative defintions of RC. The only real option would be supporting KDE 3.5, which while I think would be good it something upstream may or may not do. After all, "kubuntu" will support all the server packages in Ubuntu, just not KDE. If they've been recültant to promise 3 years support, I certainly understand why Canonical would. When push comes to shove, they really don't want to sell much more than what upstream provides anyway.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Really? with commercial support for three years? oh wait... never mind.
KDE4rc is already in the repos... were just talking about long term support here.
"Knowledge is the only instrument of production that is not subject to diminishing returns" -Journal of Political Econom
GTK already snapped up most of the cross platform action and troltech hasn't done much to go after it. Most QT stuff at this point is strictly Linux as "K" apps.. there's not much incentive to port to windows or mac because there are already GTK equivalents in that space.
If the OS X native port of GTK doesn't get its ass in gear, that is about to change. GTK on OS X means using X11. KDE4 apps on Mac will run native. About a year from now, we'll be seeing polished KDE4 apps on Windows, Mac, and Linux.
A new operating system. Runs all know programs regardless of architecture. But then your soul belongs to the "evil one".
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
I have to second that statement.
... it won't work. the "open source" ati driver doesn't support the card, the vesa graphics doesn't manage to display the installer window (because the resolution is too small, probably a vesa bug) and the automatic tool that lets you switch between resolutions and drivers just crashes along.
With the 2 latest releases of Ubuntu :
* Take a shiny new lenovo laptop with ati x1400 graphics and try to "ubuntu it"
* Why why why and why does the default desktop install cd come without a command line installer ? if you can't make X work for everyone, give us the command line installer, ok ?
Now if the LTS comes out with the same "features" towards ati cards (and no workaround to install the native ati driver that at least brings X up), and also skips proper kde support, i'll kick it out from my laptop.
KDE is the only reasonable X window manager for me, i have grown into it through out the years and there's nothing that will make me move towards the clumsy, ugly and slow gnome. If ubuntu says "let's only do gnome officially for a while and let the kde people suffer", i will go and 'suffer' my ati based laptop to gentoo. It works like gold on my secondary and i don't have to be shaking like a madman every 6 months.
And modding the parent down for no obvious reason is a lame move from mods. Stop it dudes, he didn't say anything wrong. LTS is a bad joke as far as i can tell (old packages, old bugs and no real solutions to the bugs because eliminating the bugs would introduce some new ones).
I'd tell you the chances of this story being a dupe, but you wouldn't like it.
ah, who's the racist now eh? Begrudging a poor gay nigger the freedom to express himself, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.
What if Tetris was invented by Nazis?
It's a desktop based on the QT (QED Toolkit), and is extensively used in the field of mathematics.