Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Russia to Search For Life on Europa

Posted by CmdrTaco on from the there-sure-are-none-here dept.

porkpickle writes "Russia plans to participate in a European mission to investigate Jupiter's moon Europa and search for simple life forms. The head of the Space Research Institute, Lev Zelyony, said a project to explore the giant gaseous planet Jupiter would shortly be included in the program of the European Space Agency (ESA) for the years 2015 to 2025."

83 of 125 comments (clear)

  1. On Europa ... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1, Funny

    On Europa, Soviet Russians look for YOU!

    --
    My blog
  2. Watch out for monoliths by CambodiaSam · · Score: 5, Funny

    Aren't they a bit behind schedule? I thought this was going to happen in a couple years.

    Oh wait, that wasn't a documentary was it...

    1. Re:Watch out for monoliths by plover · · Score: 4, Funny
      Sure, the aliens tell us "ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS, EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE", and which moon is the first one the Russians are heading for? Exactly.

      At least they can't say they weren't warned.

      --
      John
    2. Re:Watch out for monoliths by infonography · · Score: 1

      Like we should worry?, that second sun of theirs didn't seem to last so long now did it?

      We should insist they take Roy Scheider just because he's earned it.

      --
      Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
    3. Re:Watch out for monoliths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Sure, the aliens tell us "ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS, EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE", Apparently in Soviet Russia, All These World are belong to YOU!
    4. Re:Watch out for monoliths by mweather · · Score: 1

      They tried. They couldn't find it with both hands.

    5. Re:Watch out for monoliths by Monkey · · Score: 1

      It's a well documented fact that Soviet Russians do the reverse of any stated action.

    6. Re:Watch out for monoliths by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      My my, we've got some humorless wretches here. It's not as if I initially said they could do the Trotsky or something to that effect (or, even affect...).

      But, if they (or whomever) can find life, they'd better hope it's not superior to us. Or, shit WILL really hit the fan.

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    7. Re:Watch out for monoliths by LrdDimwit · · Score: 1

      So the moral of the story is ... keep mail order Russian brides away from talking snakes?

  3. I'm european and by sveard · · Score: 2, Funny

    With a population of over 710 million, life is abundant in europe. There is however no strong evidence for intelligent life. I kid. ;)

    1. Re:I'm european and by BrentH · · Score: 1

      Searching around that basement for intelligent life does not count.

  4. Not sure how this fits... by explosivejared · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hey go for it, we should all support going into space as this planet is screwed.

    Everyone knows that in Soviet Russia, mother nature screws you... so that sort of environmentalist talk is uncalled for.

    --
    I got a catholic block.
    1. Re:Not sure how this fits... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Everyone knows that in Soviet Russia, mother nature screws you

      Hmmm... didn't know Soviet Russians are that kinky.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. Please think of the children by Dutchmaan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Someone needs to tell them that their new 2010 DVD is just a movie.

  6. All these worlds are yours... by Lucas123 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    except Europa. Attempt no landing there.

    1. Re:All these worlds are yours... by ajs318 · · Score: 1

      How come it took *11* posts before someone mentioned this?

      --
      Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
    2. Re:All these worlds are yours... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      I counted 3 before someone mentioned it, and every second or third post thereafter.

      The first few probably got modded offtopic by mods on a particular strong brand of crack.

    3. Re:All these worlds are yours... by ettlz · · Score: 1

      Use them together.
      Use them in peace.

  7. Russia by moogied · · Score: 1

    Always trying to sneak a peek in my Europa...

    --
    So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
    1. Re:Russia by Tesen · · Score: 1

      Cause Uranus is so big...

  8. Re:NIH by sveard · · Score: 1

    This would only strengthen the arguments for panspermia.

  9. Re:NIH by dintech · · Score: 1

    Teehee, he said sperm. :P

  10. Life on Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    For some reason, I read the headline as "Russia to Search For Life on Europe." And giggled.

  11. Could the Russians Send this Message? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    .

    Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

    1. Re:Could the Russians Send this Message? by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 2, Funny

      hello
      doctor
      name
      continue
      yesterday
      tomorrow

  12. How are you gentlemen !! by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 1

    All these world are belong to you, except Europa. You have no chance to land there make your time.

    --
    N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
    1. Re:How are you gentlemen !! by starakurva · · Score: 1

      Just as I was thinking about how that quote needed a Gundam twist, scrollity-scroll, and.... :)

      Well done, man!

      --
      All you need is lurv.
  13. Re:NIH by Pr0xY · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've wondered this before. But then I read about the precautions they put in place to make sure this very thing doesn't happen. NASA actually does a very good job making sure to the best of there ability that we wouldn't bring anything with us (unintentionally) and more importantly, it puts even more effort into making sure nothing comes back ;).

    After the moon landing, the astronauts were in quarantine for several days just to make sure they didn't accidentally bring back some crazy microbe from the moon :-P.

    All in all, I think that if something is found, it'll be pretty clear cut that it isn't from earth for several reasons.

  14. Nasa Needs Outside Competition by StCredZero · · Score: 4, Interesting

    NASA needs outside competition. Otherwise, they just devolve to being a big pork-barrel project for Houston Texas and defense contractors. Outside competition got us to the moon. Maybe it will get us to Mars and Jupiter?

    1. Re:Nasa Needs Outside Competition by mathfeel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I say, let them land. This country needs another Sputnik to remind us that the rest of the world's S&T will still go forward while we "debate" such items as ID v.s. evolution.

      --
      The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
    2. Re:Nasa Needs Outside Competition by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just claim you found life there, the males looking like tentacle monsters and the females like schoolgirls, and the Japanese will be ready to launch in less than 2 years. :)

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Nasa Needs Outside Competition by Nyeerrmm · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'd actually argue that the high profile competition with the Soviets caused the current state of the US space program. We rushed to the moon in a completely unsustainable way, and needed something to do afterwards that would be high profile but much cheaper, and most importantly involve men (eliminating the possibility of probes counting as high profile). This led to the technological budget monster that is the STS, which is fundamentally flawed (combining heavy lifter with person carrier), and is overly complex for what little it really does. That said I have a little hope for the new architecture (Orion+Ares) because it fixes the architectural flaws, leaving only the managerial ones.... but I digress.

      If there had been no Soviet competition it may have taken us 10 or 20 years longer to get to the moon, or we may have decided to skip it all together, and gone to Mars or asteroids instead. However, whatever we did, it seems likely that it wouldn't have been simple flags and footprints, but instead would have been more along the lines of what Von Braun and the others had really been going for, with longer stays eventually leading to permanent habitation. Because there would never have been as large of an investment, there would never have been the budget fatigue, and the space program, whatever form it took, would have been better at using limited resources to fulfill its goals.

      Of course, predicting what might have happened is hard, but I still think that that very strong competition was ultimately harmful. Of course, this kind of lower-key competition doesn't carry the same dangers.

  15. Err, waitaminute... by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Wasn't there some sort of Internationally-recognized moratorium about landing on Europa, for fear of potential bacteriological contamination?

    Forget the Arthur. C. Clarke meme... I'm speaking as in a for-real 'we ain't going there yet' agreement that space-faring nations had agreed to, at least until they can come up with some sort of exploration set-up that can search for life there without risk (or at least an acceptably minimized risk) of contaminating the underlying ocean with Earth-borne bacteria.

    I could've sworn that there was something in place to that effect... sort of the same reason why the Russians held off from their efforts to drill all the way down to Lake Vostok in Antarctica.

    /P

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Err, waitaminute... by solarlux · · Score: 1

      "Chuck Norris understands the ending to 2001: A Space Odyssey" (I couldn't resist when I saw Clarke's name mentioned)

    2. Re:Err, waitaminute... by BornAgainSlakr · · Score: 1

      Nothing in Wikipedia about it, so you must be wrong. ;)

      Seriously, though, it says that there have been many false starts. Plus, there are some pretty serious technical hurdles to overcome.

      --
      IANYL, IANAL, TINLA, IANAMD, IANAP, ...
    3. Re:Err, waitaminute... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There have been a lot of concerns raised, but no exclusions. The spacecraft that discovered the oceans, Galileo, was burnt up in Jupiter's atmosphere to eliminate the small possibility that it crash into Europa and spread bacteria that it likely carried from earth, since it wasn't sterilized. You can bet that there will be ample pressure from inside the science community to clean any probe sent to a degree beyond even what the Mars landers are cleansed.

      The concern is that biological contamination could taint any scientific observations (was that bacteria native and therefore life did develop independently on another planet or did we screw up and bring it from earth? Is this compound naturally occuring or a metabolic product of this stupid bacteria we brought from earth? etc.).

      If you never observe the planet at that level, the concern is a moot point, so it's nonsense to flat-out ban sending a lander. We do want to be darn sure, however, that we don't screw up future studies.

  16. Re:NIH by Kozar_The_Malignant · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If they some day find life, how do they know they haven't brought it from here on their missions?

    If the life is based on DNA/RNA replication using L-amino acids you might think of contamination or panspermia. On the other hand, if it is based on a completely different chemistry from anything on Earth, you can be pretty sure it's alien. On the gripping hand, if it's somewhere in between, you have to consider all the possibilities including convergent evolution.

    --
    Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
  17. Contamination by hyades1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Everything I've seen so far indicates it will be incredibly difficult and expensive to thoroughly decontaminate a spacecraft in order to ensure that Earth-based organisms don't "piss on the Petri Dish". The Russians are notorious for cutting corners, and their prime motivation for this exercise is political. The chance that they'll spend the extra millions of dollars to ensure the sterility of a Europa lander is non-existent.

    I see a serious potential for compromising what appears to be one of the better spots in the solar system to look for extraterrestrial life.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:Contamination by RenderSeven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They're ALL notorious for cutting corners, not just russians.
      Thats not fair either... the Russians are famous for cutting costs even when they shouldnt. NASA is famous for not cutting costs even when they should. Both approaches have their benefits and their downfalls. But when it comes to decontaminating a interplanetary probe I'd have to trust NASA more on this one. Hey, if for no other reason than it *is* a pork barrel project.
    2. Re:Contamination by HappyHead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, but you realize that this means one important thing:
      Even if there wasn't life on Europa before they look for it, there will be once they've found it.
      And 10 million years from now, the Europan flibbity-wumpus people will argue with eachother over whether life arose there spontaneously, or was "seeded" from space.

    3. Re:Contamination by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1
      > The Russians are notorious for cutting corners

      Yeah, Challenger and Columbia exploded because they used Russian parts, right?

      --
      Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
    4. Re:Contamination by rilister · · Score: 5, Informative

      whoah there! 'fraid you've been misled by the lousy headline. If you'd got to the story synopsis, you'd see it was a *European* mission, which Russia is contributing to. It's called 'Laplace' (a curiously French name for a 'Russian mission', huh?) and will be launched by the ESA - European Space Agency in 2015ish.

      Now how much you trust those dirty Europeans is a different matter...

      --
      'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
    5. Re:Contamination by ArcherB · · Score: 2, Funny

      And 10 million years from now, the Europan flibbity-wumpus people will argue with eachother over whether life arose there spontaneously, or was "seeded" from space.

      Never thought we'd be the I in ID.

      --
      There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
    6. Re:Contamination by idontgno · · Score: 1

      We won't be. We don't qualify.

      Now, if you want "Borderline-moronic design", humanity fits the bill just fine.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    7. Re:Contamination by ricree · · Score: 1

      With the D standing for distributor?

    8. Re:Contamination by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Wouldn't it be kind of funny if "God" was just some alien space probe engineer who sneezed on the probe before launch?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:Contamination by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they exploded because there was no Russian to compete with. Or, rather, because NASA turned to Russian practices.

      Challenger blew up because the launch was decided despite really, really bad conditions for a launch (to cold, too wet weather), because Reagan was about to hold a speech that night, and they wanted to be in it. This is about as Soviet Russian as can be.

      Columbia was a matter of time and money. NASA engineers will tell you (of course not officially) that it was bound to happen sooner or later, and that for about 10 years they were incredibly lucky. But sooner or later your luck is all spent. The crates are OLD, for crying out loud. They need a complete overhaul or, better, replacement. But there's neither time nor money available for either.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:Contamination by bitrex · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You should really read physicist Richard Feynman's report on the Challenger disaster for an honest analysis of what lead to that orbiter's destruction. There's also a good list of myths about the disaster that's worth reading - for example the belief that Reagan's state of the union had anything to do with the disaster.

      Launch officials clearly felt pressure to get the mission off after repeated delays, and they were embarrassed by repeated mockery on the television news of previous scrubs, but the driving factor in their minds seems to have been two shuttle-launched planetary probes. The first ever probes of this kind, they had an unmovable launch window just four months in the future. The persistent rumor that the White House had ordered the flight to proceed in order to spice up President Reagan's scheduled State of the Union address seems based on political motivations, not any direct testimony or other first-hand evidence. Feynman personally checked out the rumor and never found any substantiation. If Challenger's flight had gone according to plan, the crew would have been asleep at the time of Reagan's speech, and no communications links had been set up.

      Feynman's Appendix to the Rogers Commission Report on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident

      7 myths about the Challenger shuttle disaster

    11. Re:Contamination by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 1

      Excuse me, but the Russians have kicked the US's ass with their space program. To think that they don't know what they're doing is assinine. They just need money and then they are good. They sent rovers to Venus and had them survive. If you cut corners, that aint gonna happen. No, it was the US who cut corners.

    12. Re:Contamination by houghi · · Score: 1

      Argue with eachother? Most likely they will kill each other over it. Kill each other by the millions.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    13. Re:Contamination by pv2b · · Score: 1

      Everything I've seen so far indicates it will be incredibly difficult and expensive to thoroughly decontaminate a spacecraft in order to ensure that Earth-based organisms don't "piss on the Petri Dish".
      Actually, pissing on the petri dish wouldn't be such a bad thing, since urine is sterile. :-)
    14. Re:Contamination by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Did you even read what I wrote? I said nothing about whether or not the Russians were good. I said they would cut corners. Cutting corners is what you do to save money, and the Russians are famous for it. They did it early on in the space program, and the only reason you didn't see how many of their projects screwed up is that they weren't exactly forthcoming about their failures. And FYI, they didn't send any "rovers" to Venus. Landers. Not rovers. There's a difference, and not an insignificant one.

      http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spacecraft_planetary_venus.html

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program#Failures

      I might note in passing that it sometimes pays to do a little research before running one's mouth. It's a good way to avoid seeming "assinine".

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    15. Re:Contamination by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      Actually, I did notice (just as I hit the "Post" button, of course). I decided it didn't make that much difference. If the Russians send a sealed unit along with assurances that it's been decontaminated (not unlikely, I think), I doubt whether the Europeans would pry it apart to do the job over again. And are you SURE the mission isn't called "Laplaceski".

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    16. Re:Contamination by Venik · · Score: 1

      Maybe the Russians will hire you to help them plan this mission the right way.

    17. Re:Contamination by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      The moon's called friggin' Europa. We totally have dibs.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    18. Re:Contamination by HappyHead · · Score: 1

      There's plenty of words that start with I other than "Intelligent" that could all be used.
      Idiotic, Ignoble, Ignorant, Ill-advised, Inappropriate, Icky (I mean, what if they become slime people? Ew!), and so on.

    19. Re:Contamination by HappyHead · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it'd really mess up all of those bacteria samples we're exporting...

    20. Re:Contamination by Reservoir+Penguin · · Score: 1

      Oh please, like your pathetic exploding fleet of Space Shuttles wasn't made by the lowest bidder.

      --
      US-UK-Israel: The real Axis of Evil
    21. Re:Contamination by emilper · · Score: 1

      Russians are notorious for cutting corners

      And the Martians are notorious for being green.

      In my experience, Soviet Union devices used to be functional, made to work within a temperature range between -40 and +50 degrees Celsius, quite heavy, and most of the time quite ugly, but no corners were cut. If you imagine they matched US in military technology by cutting corners, you need a refresher course in industrial management. After all, is not Russia the only state that has the gear needed to supply the ISS ?

      If any microbe can survive a few months in space (searing heat alternating with deep cold, gamma radiation etc.), it is quite probably it will survive even the most careful sterilization procedures.

  18. Re:Europa being says ... by syrinx · · Score: 1

    Personally, I welcome our Soviet Russian overlords.

    Shouldn't your Soviet Russian overlords welcome you?

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
  19. Finally someone is sane by mattr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And this is exactly what you get when you actually go out wanting to find life and look in the most obvious place. This is low-hanging fruit and hopefully a race will start to get some smart exploratory packages over there before we're dead.

    1. Re:Finally someone is sane by CheshireCatCO · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it's looking for fruit in a fruit tree where the fruits are *high*. Europa, while the best extra-terrestrial candidate for bearing life at present, requires some serious radiation shielding on any spacecraft going there, a fairly expensive landing, and a *lot* of work to bore through 1-10 km of literally-rock-hard ice. The probability of finding a viable ecosystem is balanced against the great difficulty to get to it.

      As I recall, a recent NASA study said that they can't do it for under $1 billion (US); actually, I think that they found that they couldn't even do a decent orbiter for under $1.5 billion, let alone a lander or a submarine probe. (Warning! This is only my recollection from presentations 6 months ago.)

    2. Re:Finally someone is sane by Mr2cents · · Score: 1

      The article said they would melt a bit of ice, there was no mention of drilling through 10km of ice. I guess they just want to examine surface ice for fossils.

      Still, it's an ambitious plan. But am I the only one who's beginning to get sceptical about Russian announcements? Weren't they going to do a sample return mission to Mars' moon Phobos? Weren't they going to do moon rovers? Weren't they going to build their own space station in 2015, when the ISS will be deorbited (not that I think it will be deobited so soon)? Talk is cheap, those missions are *not*. They're all impressive plans, but what was the last interplanetary mission of Russia?

      Frankly, they are reminding me of the decade following the dead of the Amiga. "It's been sold to another company!". "They're bringing out a new model real soon now!". "It's being sold again!". "Prepare for the rebirth of Amiga!". It all turned out to be a lot of hot air.

      --
      "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
    3. Re:Finally someone is sane by jgoemat · · Score: 1

      The article said they would melt a bit of ice, there was no mention of drilling through 10km of ice. I guess they just want to examine surface ice for fossils.

      The video is actually pretty cool. Actually they are using a torpedo-shaped thing with a nuclear heater to melt through the ice. Since it is more dense than water, it will naturally sink as the ice melts. It looks like it plays out a thin wire to communicate with the surface, which is ok if it melts in the water as the torpedo passes. When it gets near the point where the water melts (detected by sensors?), it drops an anchor into the ice. When it busts through, it plays out some more wire to hang from, drops the nuclear-heated head and releases a submersible to search for life.

  20. Re:missing the point! by kellyb9 · · Score: 2, Funny

    did anyone RTFA? did anyone watch the video?
    Hi, you must be new here. Welcome to /.
  21. In soviet russia by 32771 · · Score: 1

    people search for even colder place because permafrost is thawing.

    http://www.informedresponse.co.uk/environews/?p=39

    One muddy mess. No wonder they want to go somewhere cold.

    --
    Je me souviens.
  22. Re:Europa being says ... by 32771 · · Score: 1

    Well I'm glad to have gotten rid of them.

    --
    Je me souviens.
  23. Am I the only one by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    who thought they were looking for life on Europe?

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  24. O_o' Headline caused me to do a double take! by bornagainpenguin · · Score: 1

    I had to re-read the headline a couple of time because the first few times I thought I read "Russia to search for Intelligent Life on *Europe*" LOL..

    --bornagainpenguin

    --
    Have a Virgin Mobile USA smartphone? Give VMRoms.com a try!
  25. Well Said by turgid · · Score: 1

    No mod points today.

    --
    Stick Men
  26. Re:In soviet russia by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Yeah, Sibiria simply ain't what it used to be. Sending people there is soon like sending them to a Club Med, so we need something new.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  27. Overheard from the spacecraft.... by penguin_dance · · Score: 1

    Damn...I thought they were sending us on vacation to Italy.

    --
    If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
  28. HG2G by jcaldwel · · Score: 1

    If you keep it up, you can eventually get promoted to Senior Shouting Officer, and there are not usually many vacancies for non-Shouting and non-Pushing People About Officers, so I think you ought to stick to what you know.

  29. Re:Commander Taco should read the summary by curmudgeon99 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The hell it is European! You going to Europa on an Ariane? Not likely. This will be launched from Baikonaur using the large Energia boosters. This is 95% Russian and the Russkies deserve the credit. Anybody can make a little jacky rover to go look around. GETTING there is the problem.

  30. world largest oil producer hasbucks and smarts by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Russia has been the worlds largest producer for a couple years, producing nearly a billion dollars worth per day. They also have excellent scientists. Sounds like a great combination.

  31. Easy as cake! by net_oholic · · Score: 1


    Pie. Easy as -pie-.

  32. Re:In soviet russia by tenco · · Score: 1
    In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.

    In Western Capitalism, commerce controls you!

  33. Re:Oh god by Movi · · Score: 1

    You're late. They changed the name to URECTUM

  34. you're uninformed by nguy · · Score: 1

    free medical care and education for illegal aliens

    It's usually the children of illegal immigrants that are receiving free education, and that's because they are usually US citizens. "Free medical care" doesn't exist per se in the US; what exists is emergency treatment, and that is provided to illegals not to encourage illegal migration, but because we don't want Americans to die in the emergency room because we can't establish whether they are citizens.

    now our politicians are talking about amnesty

    Talking about? Large scale amnesty programs have been around for many decades.

  35. Re:Oh my god by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 1

    ... It's full of stars!!!

  36. Re:In soviet russia by Jehosephat2k · · Score: 1
    In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.

    Reply In Western Capitalism, commerce controls you!

    Nice try

    It should be "In Western Capitalism, commerce controls the government."

  37. Re:In soviet russia by tenco · · Score: 1

    Well, we've democracy. So the government is you.

  38. Re:In soviet russia by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Mod parent funny!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.