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Modeling Urban Panic

Schneier is reporting that Arizona State University's Paul Torrens has been developing a computer simulation to model urban panic. "The goal of this project is to develop a reusable and behaviorally founded computer model of pedestrian movement and crowd behavior amid dense urban environments, to serve as a test-bed for experimentation." The simulation tests behaviors from how a crowd flees from a burning car to how a pathogen might be transmitted through a mobile pedestrian over time among others.

30 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. You need a simulation for this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny


    The simulation tests behaviors from how a crowd flees from a burning car

    Hmmm... my guess is AWAY from the burning car.

    1. Re:You need a simulation for this? by evanbd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course you do.

      Any time you want to answer the question "What will happen to X in the event of Y?" you either need to try it, or you need a model. Your model ("crowd moves away") probably gives correct results, but not detailed ones. If you want more detailed results, with answers to more detailed questions (How fast? Which direction? How does it change with pedestrian density? How do obstacles matter?) then you need a better model.

      If you want to improve pedestrian traffic, police response, crowd control... This model could be quite helpful.

    2. Re:You need a simulation for this? by phobos13013 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It could be, but I believe some parameters of the modeling AI need to be changed. Take a look at the massive crowd evacuating through the small aperture. The crowds on the fringe just stand there and pile up while the late-comers in the middle flow right through since the fringes dont move. In a real crowd (even under regular evacuation measures and not one in a "panic") would never go for this! People would constantly be trying to overcome the person not moving in front of them! The fringe individuals would immediately relocate to the center which is dwindling in length.

      I don't think this model takes a lot of human behavior into consideration. One requirement could be that the individuals never stop moving, they will always take the available (open) path towards the exit even if it is not the straight line path which they are lined up in queue for. It also doesn't take into the consideration of a possibility of a trample situation where perhaps a threshold value of energy from a surging crowd overcomes the resistance of the small group of slower moving individuals in front. But of course, this is a great start for a complex computational issue!

      --
      ...and it should be known by now
    3. Re:You need a simulation for this? by mangu · · Score: 2, Funny

      Crowds don't flee from burning cars any more than they flee from the scene of a burning building

      They certainly do, if they are inside.
    4. Re:You need a simulation for this? by trolltalk.com · · Score: 4, Funny

      Crowds don't flee from burning cars any more than they flee from the scene of a burning building
      They certainly do, if they are inside.

      ... and how the fsck do you get a crowd into a car? Round up a bunch of midgets at the local circus, stuff them in, toss some gasoline on them, and light it? That'll attract a crowd, for sure ...

  2. Yes but can it model... by billius · · Score: 5, Interesting

    a zombie attack? And if so, can it compensate for the differences between slow-moving George Romero zombies and fast-moving British zombies?

    1. Re:Yes but can it model... by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apparently, this can. (Linked in TFA)

    2. Re:Yes but can it model... by Amorymeltzer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you might find this interesting, if you haven't seen it before. It's a cool little zombie infection simulation. Not complex, but has some cool ideas, such as having non-panicked people becoming panicked when they see another human who is panicked.

      --
      I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
    3. Re:Yes but can it model... by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Insightful

      a zombie attack? And if so, can it compensate for the differences between slow-moving George Romero zombies and fast-moving British zombies? And can the system tell the difference between a cult classic and a crass hollywood remake?
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
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  3. didn't they do this... by notgm · · Score: 5, Funny

    didn't they do model this already in the Grand Theft Auto series?

    step a. pedestrian looks at event.
    step b. pedestrian throws hands in air.
    step c. pedestrian runs away.
    step d. pedestrian gets winded, approximately 1/2 block from event.
    step e. pedestrian forgets event.
    step f. pedestrian walks around aimlessly.
    step g. (sometimes) pedestrian's head explodes, becomes event triggering new step a.

    seemed pretty darn realistic to me.

  4. I can answer one of these by Malevolent+Tester · · Score: 4, Insightful

    5) identify, if possible, the tell-tale signs of a peaceful crowd about to metamorphosize into a hellish mob;

    Riot police. I've seen several demonstrations turn violent, and every single time it was preceded by riot police either attacking people (I've seen Metropolitan Police TSG hit a pregnant woman for talking back to them), herding people into an enclosed space and beating those who try and get out or baton charging a peaceful crowd.*

    *This is not to say the police cause all riots, but they're certainly a factor in at least some of them.

    --
    If you haven't made a developer cry, you've wasted a day.
    1. Re:I can answer one of these by flabbergasted · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ambrose Bierce defined it best in his "Devil's Dictionary"

      riot n. A popular entertainment given to the military by innocent bystanders.

  5. Godzilla Model? by saudadelinux · · Score: 3, Funny

    How can you have an urban panic without modeling a big, gray, atomic-breathed monster? Are they gonna CGI him, or Tron in some guy in a suit? :D

    --
    I didn't think the house band in Hell would play this badly.
  6. Why waste money on urban panic research... by John3 · · Score: 2, Funny

    when Hollywood has done several studies on fleeing citizens already?

    --
    "We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
  7. Yes but... by grub · · Score: 3, Funny


    ... can it predict how a crowd in Times Square will flee from the goatse guy being displayed on the jumbotron?

    --
    Trolling is a art,
  8. Why simulate it? by rucs_hack · · Score: 3, Funny

    All you have to do is knock out the west coast's WoW access on a saturday and wait.

  9. Links to the Rendered Videos by phobos13013 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Much more interesting than the Schneir description of the actual site in question. Here they have fully rendered videos from multiple vantages of the studies amongst other research topics of the professor.

    --
    ...and it should be known by now
  10. Psychohistory here we come! by GeekZilla · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I welcome our new Second Foundation overlords!

    Hey! Get that Mule out of here!

    --
    Veritas patesco per quaestio questio. Truth is revealed through questions.
  11. Significant problem... by RingDev · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The demo they show of the modeler shows scenarios where the subjects want to get to some place. That's neat and all, but in a panic, people aren't trying to get TO some place, they are trying to get AWAY from some place.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  12. Been there done that by JustNiz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My CS AI prof at University of Reading had done this about 15 years ago, following the tube train fire at Kings Cross, London.
    He created a model of the station and passengers, programmed only about 6 simple rules into the movenent of each passenger, and found that the model pretty accurately recreated where they found the actual bodies in the station.

  13. Number 4 is funnier by spun · · Score: 5, Funny

    4) design a mall which can compel customers to shop to the point of bankruptcy, to walk obliviously for miles and miles and miles, endlessly to the point of physical exhaustion and even death; Now that's what I call science! Now, if only we could design a website that compelled people to browse, even to the point of losing their jobs, reading obliviously to their need to shower, posting endlessly to the point of mental confusion and even complete retardation... Oh, wait...
    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  14. Actual link by zimage · · Score: 2, Informative

    The included link is for a blog that links to a blog which links to the actual website: http://www.geosimulation.org/crowds/

  15. Okay, so by 2012 I should have a gaming platform by blair1q · · Score: 3, Funny

    with a CPU, a GPU, a PPU, a P'PU, a SAPU, a DIADRPU[TM], a TBNPU, and a CULCAOPU

    * Central Processing Unit
    * Graphics Processing Unit
    * Physics Processing Unit
    * Panic Processing Unit
    * Sexual Arousal Processing Unit
    * DRM Infringement Attempt Detection and Reporting Processing Unit(R)
    * Terabit Network Processing Unit
    * Computer Upgrade Loan Consolidation Assistance Offer Processing Unit

  16. Actual link by zimage · · Score: 3, Informative

    The link in the summary doesn't link to Dr. Torrens' actual research, but a blog about it. Here's the research's website: http://www.geosimulation.org/crowds/

  17. But can it do combinations? by mtraskos35826 · · Score: 2, Funny

    So will it be able to simulate a anthrax covered minivan with seven free Wii systems in the trunk? Seems impossibly complex to me.

    They should remember that sometimes it's cheaper to do experiments in real life.

  18. There's more than movement, too by blueZ3 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Those people on the outside are pressing against the folks in the middle and people at the back are pressing forward. The nice stream shown doesn't appear to account for this, especially as none of the sims are crushed, trampled, or otherwise flattened in the mad rush to the door.

    IRL, people on the outsides frantically push their way toward the exit, creating pressure on those in the center that frequently results in a crush of bodies that this model doesn't seem to model very well. If you've ever been in a situation where the crowd pressure to pass through a bottleneck is so strong that you can't move backward, hold still, or even effectively resist the rush, you know what I'm talking about.

    This model seems to be a "in a perfect world, where the panicked crowd moves cooperatively and generally in an orderly fashion towards the exits" kind of model. It's hard to see how that's very useful in the context suggested (panic response).

    --
    Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
  19. Direct link by Dan100 · · Score: 4, Informative

    to the research. Even better, the ASU press release went out seven months ago.

  20. Certianly interesting... by Gat0r30y · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder how this model can compensate for cultural differences. I was recently in China, where outside of major cities (Shanghai, Beijing) closer to the country (even in very large cities) there is no concept of waiting in line. It takes some getting used to, even after a month of acclimatizing I couldn't help but try to form a line, like i'm the one westerner who's going to show the 4 million people of Wuxi China how to wait in a line. How would crowds with that sort of cultural leaning move vs. say a very polite crowd where everyone tries to let other people go in front? How might these factors get paramaterized?

    On another note the mall designed to get people to shop to death is about the scariest thing Ive ever heard of. After hearing of that I'm pretty sure this will end up being used for evil.

    --
    Prediction: The real iPhone killer is going to be sex robots from Japan. Think about it.
  21. What about a dynamic environments... by moncho · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This completely reminded me of the opening of the London Millennium Bridge in London (crossing the Thames) were the bridge (nicknamed the Wobbly bridge) began to sway due to a few pedestrians who, by happenstance, inadvertently stepped in the same direction at the same time, causing a slight sway which on the rebound caused a few more people to step into the same direction, causing further swaying, increasing the effect w/ every oscillation. This effect is known as Synchronous Lateral Excitation. The funny thing is that each step, even several in synchrony, have negligible effects on bridge stress models... it was that this particular sway happened in such a way that forced more pedestrians on the bridge to step INTO the direction of the sway, continuing until most everyone on the bridge (up to 2,000 pedestrians) were contributing energy to the sway. The aforementioned is an instance of an unexpected design flaw due to inadequate modeling, and one can always come up w/ such instances, but these are meant to be learned and avoided... not repeated.

  22. Re:Is this really newsworthy? by Prof.Phreak · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One use is finding bottlenecks in new construction or city planning. if a dirty bomb blows up in the middle of the city, what will cripple evacuation?

    It's not something that can be done once and that's it. It's something where every new construction/change needs to be modeled. Even new technology (like cell phones) can change the crowd behavior.

    --

    "If anything can go wrong, it will." - Murphy