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The Doctor Will See Your Credit Score Now

mytrip writes to mention that the same people who invented credit scores are working to create a similar system for hospitals and other health care providers. "The project, dubbed "MedFICO" in some early press reports, will aid hospitals in assessing a patient's ability to pay their medical bills. But privacy advocates are worried that the notorious errors that have caused frequent criticism of the credit system will also cause trouble with any attempt to create a health-related risk score. They also fear that a low score might impact the quality of the health care that patients receive."

16 of 464 comments (clear)

  1. Fundamentally broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They also fear that a low score might impact the quality of the health care that patients receive.

    Of course this will impact the quality of healthcare that people receive. Don't be absurd. Look, as someone who is involved in his family business (12 docs, 100 total employees), the ability of patients to pay is fundamental because healthcare is a business. Doctors graduate medical school with six figures in debt, buildings cost money, running a business with good people takes money to pay your employees with and more. It is hard enough as a small business in medicine, but competing with larger hospital groups who make access like this part of their business practice (like HMOs) are making it even harder because they shunt patients who are less able to pay to the local doctors or smaller clinics, and these are the businesses that suffer the burden of non-payment.

    What is the solution? Trying to figure out who has what insurance (some insurance is better than other types) and who can afford to pay for more expensive procedures is just bad medicine and bad social responsibility. Socialized medicine is not it either, however, a return to fee for service medicine is a better option for all people involved. Scrap the HMOs (who are in business to make money, not provide health care), scrap the insurance companies (middle men extracting their pound of flesh) and return to a system where you pay for services rendered with insurance for catastrophic coverage. Granted, many specialized procedures will not be utilized as much but health care coverage for two healthy people is often in the $8k-$12k/year range as it is. And what is the average American getting for that expenditure? You are paying typically out of pocket expenses on top of that as well if you do take advantage of health care services and if you prove a bad insurance risk, you get dropped entirely. Look, insurance companies are not in business to help you stay healthy, or get well... They are publicly traded companies who's bottom line is profit and that profit comes at your expense. A classic parasitic business model that has been promulgated on the American public. However, this will have to change as it is dragging down US business, small and large, big time.

    1. Re:Fundamentally broken by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      American society is all about me. It's not about you. It's about me. Let the poor die, stupid miserable bastards. America hates the poor, grinds them up on the mill of the American Dream, grist for the wealthy. Fuck those that can't pay for health, and fuck their disgusting children. Jesus loves a rich America where the poor are crushed under the weight of big business. Money is the God of America, and Jesus is all about the Money. The only thing that counts in America is business; business and money. Society can go get fucked, because business is overlord. Congressmen sell their worthless souls to it, and those that can't afford decent health care should be given a fucking bullet and told to put it between their eyes, because America is all about me.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:Fundamentally broken by gad_zuki! · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh bullshit, socialized medicine is the solution and we've seen it work pretty well in western europe.

      My ability to pay has nothing to do with my credit or money in my bank. It has everything to do if my insurance decides to screw me or screw you. An MRI I needed a couple of years ago which was supposed to be covered by insurance cost me 1500. My insurance paid them 1100. Both of those parties are just trying to screw me for cash. Instead of working with insurance companies the MRI people just pull a number out of their butts. Their inability to work with my good insurance or the insurance's inability to pay fair prices puts me in the middle of a capatalistic nightmare where my own health is used as leverage points to see who can bill the most and pay out the least. This is incredible! The most pathetic part of this was that I was told by the MRI people that if my insurance refused to pay anything they had a nice low cash price of 300 dollars. In other words theyre making money at 300, but bill 1500!

      Sorry, but the only way out of this nightmare is mass socialization of medicine and getting away from the idea that my illness should make you rich.

    3. Re:Fundamentally broken by JohnSearle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So you are saying that at the cost of the present, you're banking on tomorrow? I understand that's one argument for a free market society, but come on, you're talking about human lives. I would rather not pay for cheaper health care with the blood of my neighbours.

      I suppose this is the long running socialist vs. capitalist debate, but you really need to look at the facts... socialist-democratic societies seem to be much happier, better educated, etc. then the American free market society, bent on the idea that individual happiness is best served cold with individual self-interest.

      Check out the HDI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index (America is 12th), and Poverty Index http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Poverty_Index (America 17th), for some, albeit contestable, evidence to my claim that socialist countries seem to be doing better off than the American self-aggrandized way of life. Plus, it would appear the United States is doing nothing more than slipping further away from those top socialist countries.

      - John

    4. Re:Fundamentally broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We could always stop pouring billions upon billions of dollars into killing people and focus on keeping people alive.

    5. Re:Fundamentally broken by vux984 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that we have removed free markets from so much of healthcare in the name of providing access and it has crippled the ability to get affordable health care or insurance. Things like prescription drugs, imaging, etc. should not be covered. These would be affordable in a true free market society.

      That's a nice fantasy.

      The great 'free market' has some 12% of America living below the poverty line. 12% of America can't even afford an 'adequate standard of living' as it is. People just above the poverty line number in the millions... you really think a family of 4 making $22,000 is going to have the sort of disposable income needed for a hip replacement EVEN if medicine was a free market?

      And the cost of food, fuel, heat, and rent are rising faster than wages.

      Given that a (relatively) unregulated free market can't even make the BASIC NECESSECITIES of life suitably affordable to a LARGE fraction of Americans, what on earth makes you think exotic surgery, and medical procedures would be??

      And even if it 'worked': Reducing a procedure thats been bloated out to $1,500,000 (due to the 'massive regulation inefficiencies' you claim) down to even $150,000 is still a death sentence to a *huge* number of people. Even $50,000 is out of reach.

    6. Re:Fundamentally broken by gambolt · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You want to know what the real problem is? For-profit health care serves two masters: the patent and the stockholders. Their interests are mutely exclusive. They have the obligation to provide high quality care for the patent and also the obligation to maximize profits for the stockholders. If they fail to do either they can be sued. That's not just broken, it's patently absurd.

      If you ask me, profiting off human suffering is immoral and un-American.

    7. Re:Fundamentally broken by VanessaE · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Oh this whole subject pisses me off, but this comment just takes the cake.

      I see Medicare/Medicaid and state Medicaid patients all day, every day. They pay nothing.

      Not to dispute your choice of profession, but you're just plain wrong here. My husband receives Medicare, and even with that coverage, we still have to pay money out-of-pocket for every single medicine, and for every other service he needs. Case in point: my husband needs surgery to re-position and/or fuse a couple of diseased vertebrae in his lower back. The one surgeon in the area who does this kind of surgery wanted about $70,000, but Medicare only covers 80% (sometimes less) of anything you claim, leaving us to pay a $14,000 balance. That doctor also expected an additional $17,000-ish for the hospital, none of which is covered by Medicare he told us. So, my husband's total bill would have been at least $17,400 if the hospital were covered at the usual 80%, or upwards of $31,000 if the doctor is right about lack of coverage.

      We are both disabled, and that second (more likely) figure is well over two years' pay for us! How the hell are we supposed to afford that kind of expense and still pay for a roof over our heads? I mean, seriously, WTF!?

      As for Medicaid, whether you pay anything or not depends on the particular implementation of that program where you live. Where I live now, I haven't been able to establish what costs there might be, but where I came from in Florida, you have to pay back every penny the government spends on you should you ever come into some money down the road, no matter how much or how little. Case in point: Over the course of a couple of years, I had accrued several thousand in medical bills, all of which the government agency providing my general medical coverage paid for. I ended up being injured in a car accident (other driver rear-ended us) and received a $10,000 settlement from the offending driver's auto insurance company. Well, I got about $3000 of that settlement, my lawyer took another $2500 or something, and the government agency providing my coverage took the rest. My medical coverage was then terminated because I got too much money from the settlement. I never got back onto that program.

      Translation: I paid for no less than 70% of my medical expenses, despite supposedly having health coverage. And yes, it's a Medicaid-affiliated program.

      As for Social Security, Your google search has sources which claim that there were errors in the government cost estimates. What no one seems to want to tell people is that we have a surplus of funding that had been built up decades ago, and which is expected to run dry in around 2020ish. At that point, the program will still be at break-even. Take a look at The US budget for 2008. Expenses add up to $2.9 trillion, while the government is showing receipts of only $2.66 trillion. What the Wikipedia article doesn't say is just how much of that spending is pork and how much actually gets spent properly (I'm guessing 50:50 or worse).

      By this point, I really shouldn't have to say this, but I will anyway: Stop the wars, stop the government waste, tax the rich more than you tax the poor, and put a fucking cap on the raw cost of medical care. There is NO ETHICAL REASON WHATSOEVER that (quoting a previous poster) an MRI should cost $300 for an individual but $1500 for an insurance company, that a mass-produced vial of insulin should cost $75 for one month's supply, that any pill of any kind should cost more than a few cents each, or that the aforementioned back surgery should cost anywhere close to $96,000.

      And to think, this is how I felt *before* I watched "SiCKO". What scares me the most is that practically everything in that movie as far as mainstream US health care is concerned is fact. I'd be better off dead than ill in this country.

  2. I'm going to say it right now... by doyoulikeworms · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Because I know the types of posts that are coming.

    There's no such thing as a free lunch.

    1. Re:I'm going to say it right now... by IQgryn · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While it may occasionally inspire violence, taxation is not, in and of itself, violence.

  3. This is so backwards by timeOday · · Score: 4, Insightful
    What we need is a way for people to reliably assess doctors and hospitals, including who charges how much, before handing their health and wallets over to them.

    We also need real accountability for credit reporting agencies. Simply requiring them to change incorrect information after the damage is already for done and requiring each of us to police the companies on our own dime - is crazy. They're immune for normal charges of libel, and should not be.

  4. Re:While they are at it, can they track doctors? by dmr001 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you want to look up my licensing status and any restrictions, as well as board certification, go right ahead - http://www.docboard.org/docfinder.html. If you want to know if I'm a good match for you, you'll have to do the same thing as you would for your dentist, plumber, or lawyer - try me and see if it works out.

    If you want to figure out how much I'm charging, good luck: each different plan with each distinct insurance company charges different prices for different procedures or visit types, which is often considered proprietary information so I'm not allowed to know or publicize what it is anyway, lest I collude with other physicians to get better a payment schedule.

    And while some doctors may be competing for your business, as a primary care physician, I'm not - our practice (like many) limits new patients. I take Medicaid and uninsured patients along with commercial insurance, and my panel is overflowing. I'm happy to say I love my job, but the long hours, mountains of paperwork, and 13 year old car are typical of my colleagues - we're not exactly living high off the hog, or running our hands through a mountain of gold coins.

    By law in the United States, no hospital with an emergency room can turn away anyone for needed care, but I can see why the folks doing elective surgeries might want to be sure you can pay your bill. This is America after all, and we are apparently a long way off from figuring out what virtually every other industrialized democracy has: private insurers are in it for the money, and are not necessarily aligned with your best interests.

  5. Black is white! Socialized medicine can't work! by eataTREE · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Once again, American libertarian Slashdotters come out in droves to let us know that socialized medicine couldn't possibly work. I guess this is plausible enough, as long as you're suffering from some sort of epistemological disorder that prevents you from perceiving the universe outside the borders of the United States. Because in every other Western industrialized nation, some sort of socialized medicine has been the reality for decades, and, not coincidentally, they all provide a better standard of care to their citizens for less money than we do here in the USA. (Yes, even with the waiting lists.)

    Argue, if you want, that health care shouldn't be universal on some sort of social Darwinist grounds ("The sick should die, because they are weak!"), but please stop trying to suggest that there's something inherently unworkable about government-provided health care. It's sort of like arguing that the Earth is flat or that water runs uphill: it's clearly contradicted by fact.

  6. Re:Capitalism and Healthcare Don't Mix by Valdrax · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Anyone who understands free market capitalism should understand why it doesn't work for healthcare. The rational, informed, value-seeking man does not exist in the healthcare world. Real healthcare patients are seeking the best treatment that they can afford, not the cheapest healthcare that will probably get the job done. That's the kind of market where prices go up instead of down because the only downward price pressure is whether or not a provider can find enough people that can pay at the prices they offer.

    Matters of life and death are not ruled by bargain-seeking behavior, and thus the entire driving forces of supply and demand are thrown completely out of whack. Anyone who's spent any time studying economics should recognize that the fundamental assumption of modern economic theory doesn't apply here.

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
  7. Socialized Medicine? by jackhererUK · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I have never understood this phrase "socialized" medicine you Americans use for a tax payer funded health care system. In the US the police forces, fire services etc are funded by tax payers but you do not describe them as "socialized" police forces etc. Public schools are funded by tax payers, do you have a "socialized" education system? Here in the UK we have had tax payer funded National Health Service for over 50 years. The NHS is just considered a public service like refuse collection, fire and police service, state education etc and from my perspective it is bizarre to talk about healthcare like it is a commodity.

  8. Socialized fire services and police forces ok? by fantomas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The vast majority of us who want a free market for health insurance do so because we know that in the long run, everyone including the poor will be much better off. Free markets a) promote innovation and better health care and b) drive costs down.

    Do you also stand by this argument regarding fire services and police forces protecting your house and neighbourhood? Do you prefer private fire protection to publicly taxed fire departments, and private law enforcement over public police? Just curious as perplexed as it seems to me as an outsider that "socialized" fire and police protection seem acceptable but "socialized medicine" appear to be less acceptable in the USA. Wondering where the difference between these services is seen by the American public?