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Qtrax — Ad-Supported Music With iPod Compatibility?
dnormant writes in with a note about QTrax, a 5-year-old startup that just announced deals with all the major labels to provide free, ad-supported music downloads. The new wrinkle is that, though the free tracks come encumbered with Windows Media DRM, QTrax claims that they will be playable soon on iPods. Wired's assumption is that the company is on the verge of a deal with Apple to allow use of its FairPlay DRM in place of Microsoft's. (Apple hasn't licensed FairPlay to anyone so far.) The AP coverage of the story assumes that QTrax has found a way around FairPlay on the iPod, and if so, that its solution will break the next time Apple updates iTunes.
QTrax, a 5-year-old startup that just announced deals with all the major labels to provide free, ad-supported music
Hey, that's a pretty good idea. Maybe they could distribute them wirelessly... using radio waves!
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
From the article: "We've had a technical breakthrough which enables us to put songs on an iPod without any interference from FairPlay," said Allan Klepfisz, Qtrax's president and chief executive. Seems pretty damn clear to me.
maybe some people want to keep it legal but still not pay for music? just a thought. you know, i know it's not real popular around slashdot but there are still people who believe that artists deserve support and if they can't afford a large catalog taking a few seconds out here and there to listen to an ad is a pretty good trade.
or a better question is why buy them in a drmed proprietary format from a company that can't let in a little competition? why is it that apple still receives praise when they've proven that they're even worse than the big bad wolf microsoft?
The DRM business model is interesting. Ideally it would work allowing for people to receive reduced-priced music at the cost of ads or usability (i.e. music only able to be used on one device like what's been floating around lately) but the reality is they're providing another type of DRM which will allow another method of cracking and receiving (in this case) free music.
I realize that what they're trying for is a compromise, but as long as there are insanely poor college students with way too much time on their hands out there, the market they're targeting will never go for something like this in the way they intend.
Well, back to rejecting software patent applications.
... it's just PR-fluff designed so people don't write them off as irrelevant because they don't support the single most popular PMP on the market.
I predict that the touted iPod-compatibility will remain "coming real soon now!" until the company is quietly wound down.
What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
Rhapsody.
Nice hack, I guess.
I cannot see how they can put ads in place on the iPOD. The ad would have to be static, which is far less valuable these days then something that can be updated dynamically with all the invasion of privacy information they can collect.
So the future I see is........ "Oh baby, Baby...... pfff Umm like this is Britney, buy my album and stuff for reals. Lawyers cost money. I'm serial. pfff Hit me one more time"
Or a Paris Hilton track being interrupted by a commercial for Valtrex.
There are other ways of getting legal music other then downloading it in DRMed Propriatary format with ads, although you may have to pay a bit more for them and there is radio. I wasn't trying to get into a debate about ethics only that free music with ads is simply a backwards step twards radio which is why we got MP3 players in the first place.
or a better question is why buy them in a drmed proprietary format from a company that can't let in a little competition? why is it that apple still receives praise when they've proven that they're even worse than the big bad wolf microsoft?
Where in my post did I praise Apple?
There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
Wow, the inconvenience of p2p teamed with the inconvenience of DRM. I'm sure it'll be a huge hit.
expandfairuse.org
I mean there are advantages in terms of server load I'll give you that, but if you've licensed all the tunes then why not follow the imeem model and centralize everything on a website - no special p2p software needed just a flash player and a modern browser. P2P services were percieved to have some sort of limited deniability for a while because the content and sometimes the indexes did not exist on any of the developers servers, but there's no need to that here.
I mean downloading movies and tv shows via p2p is popular, but it's nothing compared to the amount of pirate movies and tv shows shared on youtube, stage6, veoh and all those other sites indexed by clones of tv-links - if you can get instant gratification most people will take the easy option. So for the same reason I see imeem.com remaining popular since you can find pretty much every record on there in cd quality, available for instant listening and of course licensed by the record labels.
Oh I see that the press release claims that they've signed on all 4 major labels, which it turns out is BS Warner Music Group hasn't signed on so users will have to do without Madonna when the site launches.
When are these people going to learn that there is no especial significance to a file being on someone's harddrive? I can download an mp3 every time I want to listen to it as easily as open it off my harddrive.
Thus, there is no meaning to making sure it is "deleted" via DRM.
Hmm, well I guess it is pretty abstract.
expandfairuse.org
"We've had a technical breakthrough which enables us to put songs on an iPod without any interference from FairPlay," said Allan Klepfisz, Qtrax's president and chief executive. Let's be clear - the problem is DRM itself. The solution is to drop it.
The problem is not how to get DRM content onto an iPod without Apple's help. The problem is not how to get content onto an Apple. The problem is not that iPods only play open MP3s and Fairplay'd tunes - Jesus, that's not true (cue the dead horse beating).
The issue here - not in the summary - is that QTrax is P2P as well as download. And they're either scared or just stupid: As long as the DRM on downloads and advertising in the Qtrax application aren't too obtrusive, the music service may appeal to computer users now trolling for tracks via LimeWire and other unlicensed services, Enderle said.
"This is a way to get the stuff for free and not take the risk of having the (recording industry) show up at your doorstep with a six-figure lawsuit," he said. Call it Flamebait if you will for what I'm about to say (which this isn't, BTW): if these guys aren't stupid, then my first suspicion is that they're a stalking horse for the record industry to prove that DRM is ok, and that the record company's version of what DRM is ok on an iPod isn't subject to Apple's dictates. Failing that, then they actually believe you can have your DRM and eat it, too.
Either way, I'm disgusted by their attempt and their thinking.
Pathological kinda promises Path + Logical - but instead, you get stuck with pathetic.
That's unusual, as iPods only playback unrestricted MP3s files or tracks with Apple's proprietary version of DRM, dubbed FairPlay
Hard to take an article seriously when it gets the basic facts wrong. I've got about seven gigs of unprotected AAC files on my iPhone. They "playback" fine.
-Peter
The fact that anybody takes Rob Enderle seriously anymore.
I thought the whole SCO affair had made his reputation less than great?
The industry tried a DRM'd P2P service a few years ago with PeerImpact. As far as I can tell the only difference is that Qtrax is ad-supported.
The Register has an article about Qtrax. They're pretty skeptical about it.
QTrax, a 5-year-old startup
Um, they've been around for five years, I don't think they're exactly a startup anymore. More like a regular company that's trying to attract some VC money and subscribers by trying to look all shiny and new.
It's kind of like your mom wearing low-riders and a tube top--at some point this sort of thing just needs to stop.
...DVD Jon to the white courtesy phone.
How long before something this stupid gets cracked? Let's start a pool on it. I'm in for two weeks and three days after the launch date. Everyone - pick a day.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
"It's kind of like your mom wearing low-riders and a tube top--at some point this sort of thing just needs to stop."
that's just wrong. I don't know if I'll ever be free of that picture.
"just because your moma's in jail and you were born in a trailer, doesn't mean you're trash" - Peggy Hill
-- Sig under construction...
"Wooosh" indeed.
OSGGFG - Open Source Gamers Guide to Free Games
You're kidding, right? The ability to forever filter out and select only the songs that you want for free? Sign me up.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
The only way Qtrax can get their music to play on the iPod is to a) make it DRM-free, which it doesn't sound like it's doing; b) use FairPlay DRM, which they seem to have eliminated; c) implement their DRM "client" (unlocking) on the iPod, which seems unlikely; or d) get Apple to license their DRM scheme for the iPod, retroactively. Yeah, that'll happen.
I smell a rat: too many claims, too few details.
Qtrax touted in a press release Sunday morning that it was the first Internet file-swapping service to be "fully embraced by the music industry," and boasted it would carry up to 30 million tracks from "all the major labels." New York-based Warner Music undermined that claim, declaring in a statement that it "has not authorized the use of our content on Qtrax's recently announced service." Universal Music Group and EMI Group PLC later confirmed they did not have licensing deals in place with Qtrax, noting discussions were still ongoing. A call to Sony BMG Music Entertainment was not immediately returned.
I know! Let's sell mp3s without any DRM, so people can play them on *any* player, and support those with ads. Wait, what? Who are you guys? Why are you...*silenced gunfire*.
Obligatory blog plug: http://www.caseybanner.ca/
When will companies realise that the answer is to stop shipping DRM? Amazon and others are doing it now with great success. Even iTunes Plus does it. Companies that base their business on DRM are condemned to a slow but certain death.
Write their own implementation of FairPlay.
...but still not what I would call a long-term plan for success: handling ad-supported distribution of otherwise-free music and committing yourself to keeping up with Apple's avoidance maneuvers.
But it does trigger a thought: what if the record companies are looking at a scheme where they'll release DRM'd music under Qtrax's nominally free ad-supported model, and adopt Apple's $0.99/track DRM-free alternative? I could live with it.
what's nice about imeem is you can minimize the window and not have to see the ads, and they're small anyway. why are they promoting this qtrax idea of rented server space for limited use tracks, instead of pure streaming? i feel imeem has a shot at success.
Step 1: Make or copy a method of uploading your own music onto an Ipod without using iTunes.
Step 2: Announce your product to the world. Sign deals with record companies. Sell the product.
Step 3: Wait for Apple to break it in the next iPod firmware.
Step 4: Sue apple
Step 5: ?
Step 6: Profit
Alternate Business Plan:
Create a 'secure' format and convince all the record companies that it's secure. Then simply convert the secure music into MP3 and dump it in the user's iTunes Music directory.
you're kidding right? A DRM format that continues to deliver its side of the bargain after the business model fails? Google Video, NFL, PlaysForSure, etc ad nauseam.
DRM seems to be a fair way to rent movies temporarily or to buy music you can burn to CDs at any point. Outside of that, its a "trust me!" game that you shouldn't trust past what you can't afford to lose at any moment in time.
Tom Krazit of CNET and Eric Savitz of Barrons Deny the Jesus Phone
I pay nothing, I buy no product. No risk, fun while it lasts, if it fails I have nothing invested.
If the g'vt kept the data on you that google does you'd better believe you'd be calling it "doing evil"
DOA. Anything laden with DRM is bound to fail, especially when amazon is considering worldwide release of MP3.
Its another company that burns money and dies unheralded.
Forced to listen to ads, plus DRM-laden? My God, what were the promoters thinking??
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
So I guess I lose my place in the pool then, since the date he cracked this thing is actually in the past.
Thanks for the link - I missed that story the first time around and it's fascinating.
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
When you say "a company that can't let in a little competition," are you arguing that:
... or anything else Microsoft-like. When did any of those things happen? Or are you talking about specific evils of Apple, such as:
.NET
- Apple has thwarted any retail market for devices that are not iPods, as Microsoft prevented the sale of DOS and Windows alternatives?
- that Apple should be forced to license FairPlay to other companies, like how Microsoft was forced to license Office to rival third parties for resale under different brands?
- that Apple should be forced to fund alternatives to iTunes for use with the iPod, the way Microsoft has enabled integration with Notes clients from Exchange, or CalDAV from Outlook clients, or WiiConnect compatibility from the Xbox 360?
- that the iPod should play WMA DRM, just like Microsoft supports PlayStation 3 games on the Xbox 360?
- that Fairplay should work on PlaysForSure players, just as Microsoft had to support Win32 apps on Unix?
Because any of those ideas would be batshit nuts. What were you really thinking?
And when in recent history has Apple become "even worse than the big bad wolf Microsoft," as I missed the story about:
- two decades of holding back better technology,
- promising vaporware that wasn't delivered for years if ever,
- being charged with monopoly market exploitation and overcharging customers by various states and countries,
- attempting to cover it up political astroturf campaigns uncovered by the LA Times,
- delivering unusable technology at absurd prices,
- raising the price of a desktop OS by 400 percent
- stealing code and violating copyright while advertising anti-piracy campaigns
- tightening spyware-policed phone home DRM on their OS
- starting a format war to control the world's media DRM and push a shitty authoring system like HDi
- working to raise the price of media downloads while killing off all fair use rights like WMA and WMV
- shipping a new OS whose main features revolve around HD DRM policing and OS Activation
- inventing Paladium
- delivering a crappy mobile OS they can't hardly sell but would love to stick the world with
- delivering a proprietary alternative to PDF, JPEG, MP3, H.264, Java, OpenDocument and every other open format with the intent to screw the world with a poorly designed file architecture that forces dependence upon a derelict monopoly
- delivering an open sourced alternative to the NT kernel
- delivering an open sourced, standards based alternative to the IE browser engine
- delivering an advanced graphics compositing engine for Vista to copy 7 years later
- delivering the advanced Cocoa frameworks to power Mac OS X and the iPhone, well ahead of
- delivering a smartphone that blows away the state of the art and forces innovation into a dead industry
- promoting an open alternative to DirectX in OpenGL
- promoting an open alternative to WMA DRM with the MP3 playing iPod
- promoting a mild DRM that offers fair use rights to revitalize the dead music industry
- promoting an end to DRM restrictions in music downloads
- promoting an open alternative to WMV/VC-1 by pushing joint development of ISO MPEG standards
- creating a competitive music player that sells better than DRM obsessed, subscription touting rivals
- creating a competitive operating system that sells better than DRM obsessed, authorization touting Vista
- promoting the use of open file formats such as PDF, PNG, MP3/AAC, H.264, OpenDocument
- promoting a standards based web and working on HTML 5 rather than a Win32/.NET/Flash-based web
- contributing back to the GPL/BSD community in core OS, security, and web rendering
- developing a calendar server and releasing it to the community under the free Apache license
Anyway, that's why there's a difference. Not sure why its so invisible to you. Also, the sky is generally blue on clear days.
Apple TV Promises to Take 2008
But how much foresight do you really expect from something like this?
Or not?
That article states that Warner, EMI and Universal media group have all denied signing any sort of agreement with the qtrax people. The author attempted to contact Sony on the issue but was unsuccessful.
It might be obvious, but the parent's link is NSFW and mind-searingly horrible.
I was merely quoting part of the post before me, I belive exactly what you are saying but the guy above me (which I replied to) did not.
There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
This sounds a lot like We7, only with faff about DRM.
We7 do advertising supported downloads of MP3s, so you can put them on whatever device you want, including your iPod. A month after you downloaded the ad version, you can go back and re-download without adverts. They've got quite a lot of major labels on board, so there's a fairly decent choice. With the option of We7, why would you bother with something similar that still has DRM crap on it?
This post will enter the public domain 70 years after my death, unless Disney buys another extension.
The record companies are saying there are no agreements yet It was all just a dream.
I don't want freaking ads.
Just charge me a fair price, pay the artists, and get out of my way so I can play the music I bought.
Idiots.
I saw a similar article on BBC News this morning. This company has advertised that it has signed agreements with all four major record labels, yet all four are denying this fact. Warner has said that they have been in talks, but that is in no way a signed agreement. If they are going to exaggerate their record company backings, then why should we believe them when they say they are iPod compatible. It doesn't make any sense. The iPod only supports Apple's FairPlay DRM, yet they say their tracks all use Windows Media DRM. Let's wait for Apple to chime in on this one before we get too excited.
/rant
Personally, I'm not excited for any music store that uses any DRM, even if the tracks are for free. I'm still restricted in how I can use the tracks. Tip of the hat to Amazon for presenting a music store that is 100% DRM free, uses a format that is widely accepted and supported as a de-facto standard, and isn't just indie music, but has backing from the big four labels.
And another thing, can we stop calling them MP3 players? That and satellite radio. TV's use radio waves, but we don't call that visual radio.
"It's not whether you win or lose, it's how drunk you get." -- H. J. Simpson
Here is your Qtrax DRM : Sell video files with song identification information and encrypted info for ignoring the video. Your player then ignores the video, playing just the music and downloading more updated banner ads instead. But on an iPod the song behaves like a video.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell