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ACLU of Ohio Sues To Block Paper Ballots
Apu writes in to inform us that the ACLU is trying to block an Ohio county from moving from touchscreen voting machines back to paper ballots. While it may seem like Cuyahoga County — which includes Cleveland — is moving in a good direction from the perspective of ballot security, the system chosen tabulates all votes at a central location. This means that voters don't get notified if their ballot contains errors, and thus they have no chance to correct it. The ACLU of Ohio is asking a federal judge for an injunction against any election in Cuyahoga County it they move to the new system.
If someone cannot take the time to devote a minimum amount of effort to fill out a ballot properly, perhaps they should not vote at all.
A frivolous lawsuit.
Disenfranchising the minuscule number of people who cannot fill out a paper ballot pails in comparison with the threat posed by computerized voting systems. The ACLU has their priorities all wrong.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
Ohio! Committed to throwing elections since 1803!
Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
Like the ACLU is the shining torch bearer for all that is right and good in this country. How is someone's "civil liberties" encroached by using a paper ballot? Next they're gonna be gluing chicken feathers on bullfrogs and trying to teach them to fly.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
...from three major universities seems to say there's no problem at all with electronic voting and people trust it MORE than paper ballots.
With paper, if you didn't vote for the candidate you intended to...it's your fault and visible if you follow the directions.
With a compromised e-voting machine, you could walk in and have the machine say "Thanks for voting for candidate A" while it adds a vote for candidate B.
Seriously.... give them bingo blotters. Make the ballot look like a bingo card. Even the biggest id10t *ought* to be able to figure that out. If you're not smart enough to figure out *how* to vote, you don't get to. - I'm calling this principle democratic darwinism.
2 cents,
QueenB.
HDGary secures my bank
So the title is misleading. The ACLU is filing suit against the county's decision to switch to Centrally-Counted optically scanned ballots where the ballots are filled out at the polling place and sent to a single central warehouse for scanning. They are not against Precinct-Counted optical scanners where they are scanned at the polling place.
The crux of their argument is that central counts unlike precinct count and even mediocre touchscreens offer the user a warning when they overvote or undervote for a race thus warning them that they ballot may not be counted and thus giving them a chance to fix it. Their argument is that this lack of a warning (however poor) is likely to cause many errors that the voters are never aware of.
So strictly speaking they are not against the use of paper ballots (it is my understanding that they favor them) just against this particular type of scanning system.
Of course, by the ACLU rules, voting Republican is a source of voter error, and reason for the ballot to be rejected.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Sorry, your X wasn't dark enough and the scantron machine didn't pick it up. "Tuffit" indeed.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
And remember, Democracy is two wolves and a lamb sitting down and deciding what is for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.
If someone cannot take the time to devote a minimum amount of effort to fill out a ballot properly, perhaps they should not vote at all.
Voting is a serious activity, and votes should not be thrown away over trivial errors if they can be easily corrected. And unless you never make mistakes, perhaps you should not be throwing stones in glass houses.
Ohio wants to remove the security risks of M-100's at the precinct level by moving to M-650's at one location. This does remove several security risks associated with the M-100's. M-650's cannot detect the paper ballot's orientation. -paper ballots have to be manually sorted and stacked in the same orientation. M-650's are sensitive for such large machines. -they need to be level and stay level as they operate. M-650's will reject an over voted ballot because it's using the same ballot definitions as the M-100's (precinct level). M-100's can detect the paper ballot orientation. -votes on paper ballots get counted regardless of orientation of the ballot. M-100's can detect over voted ballots. -machine kicks the ballot out allowing the voter to correct their vote -precinct procedure should include accounting for spoiled paper ballots This centralized counting of paper ballots does not give a voter a chance to correct a mistake on an over voted ballot. A mistake that would be detected by M-100's if they were used at the precinct level. I think Ohio is over reacting to it's own Everest study. Most of the security problems associated with the M-100's can be controlled by proper training of the poll workers and improved access control measures at the county or precinct level. Ohio should look to how the M-100's have performed in North Carolina. But North Carolina has one of the strongest laws in the nation. And perhaps more trainable poll workers. -the defect
I think voting should be on paper ballots that are hand counted. There is no more reason to mechanize voting than there is to mechanize kissing.
Obviously, if you want to vote anonymously, you can't get feedback about whether you filled it in correctly. But, then, you aren't in elementary school anymore.
I see so many people (and US states) that have not a single clue on how to run a paper ballot based election properly. This is how virtually all ballots in Canada are cast. How do we know it is secure? A chain of accountability is made to ensure no tampering happens, through (ah! Just like US government, they say...) checks and balances.
- Special paper, number of sheets printed by the printer and returned to elections Canada are compared
- Three part ballots, consisting of a stub kept in the returning officer's book with a matching serial number to a serialized stub attached to the true ballot handed to the voter. The serialized stub is removed by the deputy officer before the voter puts the ballot in the box and collected and tallied against the returning officer's book (no-one may look at the ballot's contents at any time it is in the voter's possession).
- When a voter enters to vote, their name/address is verified against their voter card (mailed to the voter earlier) and a line is placed through their name on the deputy officer's list. After they have finished voting, their name has a check placed beside it.
- Deputy and retuning officers may not leave the premises during the vote.
- Candidate's representatives are permitted (one from each party) to attend any and all polling stations for all functions of voting.
- Should there be a need to move the ballot box at any time, such as so a disabled voter may vote when the polling station is not accessible, all parties to the vote (representatives and officers) are to supervise and approve this.
- Ballots and box may not leave the premises until counted and reported.
- Counting of the ballots is to be supervised by candidate's representatives while the room is locked so no-one may enter or leave.
- Number of ballots counted vs. number of people that have voted vs. stubs are compared.
- ALL MATERIALS that are NOT ballots (but used during the election) are placed in a sealed envelope, along with the results of the counted ballots, and the envelope placed in the ballot box.
- Special cellphones provided to the officers by elections canada for only elections canada use are used to clarify unusual situations and report the results of the vote.
- Special elections canada tape is used to tape the box.
- The box is then returned by the officers to elections canada, where the results are counted again and compared to the results reported. All ballots are kept for a specified time after the election is complete so a recount may be preformed.
- Spoiled ballots are to be agreed upon as such by all parties to counting the vote. Disagreements are to be recorded and reported.
Since there are representatives of all candidates at the polling stations (sometimes there may not be representatives of all candidates at all polling stations, it is a voluntary option for the candidate to provide representatives) and two unrelated officers (at a minimum) at each polling booth, it is virtually impossible to get away with "stuffing the ballot" especially with the above procedures in place. To get away with it would take the co-operation of at least a half dozen people, and that would lead only to, at best, a few hundred ballots (only at a large booth -- when I participated as a representative, my poll had 32 people registered on the list, clearly trying to stuff more than 32 ballots in the box would be pointless as they are recounted later) that are swayed.
For those that think this procedure takes too long, we are able to get the results of the election so quickly, Canada has passed laws to prevent the results of ridings being released before the election has been completed in your province (which, obviously, leads to exciting arguments on the internet about how BC votes are pointless as the election is already "decided" before they even get to vote).
Special rule:
- If you are given a ballot, you must return it. You may not eat it, or otherwise decide to keep it for yourself.
Our education system sucks for anything other than churning out workers. Read up on the gents that kick started our current system. They freely admitted what they were doing and why (what they weren't doing was churning out intelligent individuals). Then go out and ask your teacher friends (high school or below, if you have to pay for college it isn't truly public) what they think of the system. You'll get an ear full, and a new understanding of the world.
Honestly, the students may be able to add, subtract, multiply, read, and write but they sure as heck can't understand. Try sticking their faces in front of an essay with more than 5 paragraphs, and see what you can get out of them (hint: it will come out exactly like a form letter, have bad grammar and syntax, and make you want to blow your brains out!) God forbid you try this with a serious text, they would skip straight to Spark Notes or Wikipedia!
Now, ask them their opinions on anything. Sorry, that's a trick question - they don't learn to form their own opinions until after they leave their cookie-cutter school.
We want one class to have a liberal education. We want another class, a very much larger class of necessity, to forego the privilege of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks. -President Woodrow Wilson
Our system is nothing less than brainwashing, aimed at the children of the masses, to make them easier to control when they are grown. We are defective by design.
Just -1, Troll talking to another.
I have been working in Cleveland for the last 38 years. I live outside of Cleveland. The REAL Reason that The Democrats prefer Paper Ballots is that it is Extremely Difficult to Register and have DEAD PEOPLE VOTE! This has been an Issue that the media tends to 'overlook' and 'play-down'. Check on the last Presidential Election and you will find stories about Dead People Voting. Paper Ballots are easy to "Flood" into the voting process. It hard to drag Dead Bodies into the touch Screen Voting Booths. One 'Lady' was convicted of receiving a large amount of money from a Democrat, which was used to pay others to "Stuff" the election boxes with Phoney Ballots. WKYC TV3, NEWS TV5, WJW Fox8, and other Cleveland TV stations are, in my opinion, covering up this issue. Check the Cleveland News Papers and TV Stations archives for the details.