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Online Reputation Management To Keep Your Nose Clean?

Techdirt is reporting that as a response to all the hoopla about people being able to Google for information on potential employees (or lovers) a new market has opened up in "online reputation management". This seems to be the ultimate realization of those dubious firms who promised to scrub your records clean from a few years back. "From the description in the article, it sounds like this involves a combination of search engine optimization, plus legal bullying of anyone who says something you don't like. If anything, that sounds like a recipe for more trouble, but you can see how it would appeal to those who are unhappy with how they're perceived online. Obviously, it's no fun to have something bad about you exposed online, but efforts to suppress that information have a decent likelihood of backfiring and serving to highlight that information. I wonder if these online reputation managers have malpractice insurance for when that happens?"

24 of 125 comments (clear)

  1. Anonymous Coward by BigJClark · · Score: 5, Funny

    I half expect this article to be posted by an 'Anonymous Coward'.

    --

    Hi, I Boris. Hear fix bear, yes?
    1. Re:Anonymous Coward by Brian+Gordon · · Score: 2, Informative

      This definitely isn't going to work- see Streisand effect.

    2. Re:Anonymous Coward by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      For most all of my 'internet life'...starting back about '93-'94 or so, I pretty much always used pseudonyms, and rarely if ever gave out personal information.

      I think most people back then did pretty much the same. It just seems common sense doesn't it? When did people start really acting stupid AND not only documenting it and publishing it for eternity? Do people not have the common sense to know that actions can follow you over time?

      I mean, sure, I know there are pictures and all back when I partied my ass off....and passed out here or there, etc. But, I doubt they're ever gonna surface unless I run for Senator or something. But, even so, I knew better than to broadcast that stuff back then. It all makes for great drinking stories, and all, but, c'mon, don't people have some idea that they will try to have a future out there?

      Hell, I've had to learn that I have to actually tone down my stories of old escapades depending on company. When at work at times in the past, when hanging with the guys, shooting the shit...each telling stories and trying to kinda of top the other....I noticed that my idea of normal partying was WAY more than most of them. I learned then not to really tell new people about the old exploits...at least not at work.

      I basically have fun rehashing them with old friends I did them with....but, shy of that, in this world, well, it is more and more important to not be seen!!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Anonymous Coward by baboonlogic · · Score: 2, Insightful

      For most all of my 'internet life'...starting back about '93-'94 or so, I pretty much always used pseudonyms, and rarely if ever gave out personal information.

      Same here but since blogs became popular and I got mentioned once or twice here and there I decided that if it's gonna be the first result with my name on google it might as well be something better. So, now I do post a lot of stuff with my own name in it.

      Disclaimer: My company has asked me to research the ORM market. I might be biased.

      In fact, I am beginning to think that this stuff is a much better response than litigation a lot of time and given the nature of the web, litigation is a lot of times impossible. (Say someone halfway down the globe is running a smear campaign against you.) And the first page results for your name can affect your life in a very real way.

    4. Re:Anonymous Coward by eln · · Score: 4, Funny

      I never thought my name was all that common, but apparently Google things I'm a Mathematician, Associate Professor at two Universities on two different continents, and a former Canadian member of Parliament, so I've either led a much richer life than I thought or my name is more common than I realized.

      Of course, I guess I could find it mildly troubling that even after almost 20 years online, it's still difficult to find me by name on a Google search. Sex offender registries maybe, but then...I've said too much.

    5. Re:Anonymous Coward by orclevegam · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's kind of the problem. Because the internet has evolved into not only a personal but also commercial tool there's more pressure to at the very least pick reasonable pseudonyms. Like it or not, if your resume lists your e-mail as HotPartyChick69@aol.com it's going to color the reviewers interpretation of your resume as well as lead them to make assumptions about you. At the company I work for all our e-mail addresses are of the form firstname.lastname@companyname.com which can also make it easier to track postings.

      Of course I think this article is talking more about the sorts of things you see on things like Wikipedia involving celebrities, or sites like MySpace who's primary function is to eliminate your privacy (that whole social thing in social networking). In the first case, you're probably protected in part by Wikipedias standards concerning sources, but also in part by laws against libel. In the second case you don't really have much recourse, as by joining sites like that and providing information about yourself you're explicitly waiving your rights to privacy.

      Really I think this whole thing is stupid and about on par with a company that would offer to "protect" the "reputation" of high school students (the most likely to be doing things they'll regret documenting on MySpace anyway). It's ultimately a futile exercise, and you'd be much better off not publishing the information in the first place and/or going after people for committing libel (assuming it's a lie, if you really did it, well, you're screwed).

      --
      Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
    6. Re:Anonymous Coward by Dada+Vinci · · Score: 2, Insightful
      But what about people who get dragged into the spotlight through no fault of their own? The Washington Post article about some of the same events describes some pretty bad stuff:

      The chats sometimes include photos taken from women's Facebook pages, and in the Yale student's case, one person threatened to sexually violate her. Another participant claimed to be the student, making it appear that she was taking part in the discussion.
      What's important is that the victims were not participating in the forum before they had their names, photos, and alleged sexual preferences splashed all over the web. Somebody thought it'd be a good idea to have a "beauty contest" with unwilling contestants, and some of the organizers of the "contest" went over the top. Right now the law doesn't really provide a remedy for that sort of thing. It's gross that a student had her private photos splayed all over the public Internet, and that somebody else impersonated her to make her look like a bi***, but there's no way to solve the problem right now. Telling people to grow thicker skin doesn't help when people are threatening to stalk and rape out of the blue.
    7. Re:Anonymous Coward by WaltBusterkeys · · Score: 2, Interesting

      At the very least the person who's reputation was being trashed should have contacted the hosting site and asked for the conversation to be taken down.

      They did. The hosting site claimed that they were immune under CDA 230 and refused.

      sued for Libel and possibly other things

      There is a lawsuit pending, but the plaintiffs can't find any of the people who made the libels. The hosting site deleted or didn't keep IP logs, claiming that they didn't have to. And the hosting site claims that it's immune under CDA 230.

      The problem is really CDA 230. If a web host can knowingly continue to publish libel by saying "it's not my fault, it's some user who came on and posted" then they should have to keep IP logs so that the user can be found and sued for libel. If the end user can't be found then the web host should have to take the material down. Right now the libelous material is still up and nothing can be done. Of course, it should take a subpoena to get IP addresses from a webhost, and there should be a showing of probable cause, but there has to be something done to fix CDA 230.

    8. Re:Anonymous Coward by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "That's kind of the problem. Because the internet has evolved into not only a personal but also commercial tool there's more pressure to at the very least pick reasonable pseudonyms. Like it or not, if your resume lists your e-mail as HotPartyChick69@aol.com it's going to color the reviewers interpretation of your resume as well as lead them to make assumptions about you. At the company I work for all our e-mail addresses are of the form firstname.lastname@companyname.com which can also make it easier to track postings."

      Well, there are times and places for each, right?

      If you're posting something with a political slant, surely you wouldn't want to use your company email address would you? Just use common sense.

      There are ways to post anonymously too...set up a nym account to post through remailers to USENET if you want to really remain anon....

      And lastly, I'd recommend NOT being an exhibitionist with a Facebook or Myspace page, unless you want all those party pics of you hogging the skull bong while you have toe sex with a couple of people to come back and haunt you later in life.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    9. Re:Anonymous Coward by digitig · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sounds like it's an issue with a loophole in CDA 230. After reading it over I notice CDA 230 has exemptions for federal crimes, and copyright infringement. Sounds like the problem could be solved by adding another exemption for Libel such that the ISP must take down libelous statements when ordered to do so by the court otherwise their held responsible for them, much the same as the other exceptions. The trouble with that is that at the moment genuine whistleblowers have some potential protection from identification. Take it away and bullies will find it all the easier to silence criticism -- all they have to do is call the accusations libel then they can go after the whistleblower with their own threats of violence. I've been in that position -- my wife was blowing the whistle on malpractice in a geriatric care home, and we got threats of violence against our (then) infant children (on police advice she shut up and left the job). You might say that to get the court to order the release of the information the complainant would have to demonstrate a strong case for libel, but without the whistleblower there to put their side of the case and to actually show evidence that could be all too easy. Anonymity is important, and it's when libel accusations start flying around that the interests of both sides need to be very carefully weighed.
      --
      Quidnam Latine loqui modo coepi?
  2. Not for everyone by Saib0t · · Score: 4, Funny

    I can imagine this:
    Customer: Hi, I'd like a clean online reputation, can you do that?
    Company: Sure, just a couple of clicks, 100 bucks and you're clean... What's your name?
    Customer: Kevin Mitnick.
    Company: ...
    Company: ...
    Company: -_-'

    --

    One shall speak only if what one has to say is more beautiful than silence
    1. Re:Not for everyone by KublaiKhan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What might work better is to offer counselling on how to craft a truly anonymous persona for yourself (for the naughty bits) and how to keep it separated from your real persona--and, of course, counselling on how to take care of your real online persona, and perhaps a service to check up on it from time to time.

      (If anyone out there wanted to hire me for that service, I'd be more'n willing for a very reasonable rate... ;-P )

      --
      In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
      A stately pleasure dome decree
  3. Don't even bother reading by pthor1231 · · Score: 2, Informative

    the "article" It's a fucking paragraph, and 5 of the 6 links it has are back to itself. What a crock

  4. Non-crappy-blog link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I find bizzare and almost Kafkaesque that Scuttlemonkey has quoted, and linked to, and article which begins 'From the description in the article...'.

    Anyway, the real article is at

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080130/technology/lifestyle_us_internet_technology_rights

    and says

    WASHINGTON (AFP) - A new breed of image-manager is emerging in the United States to take on the masked and hooded cybermobs who, bolstered by anonymity and weak laws, launch damaging attacks on other web users.

    "We are seeing online mobs emerge and launch attacks... with significant consequences, both to the people online and to their reputation offline," University of Maryland law professor Danielle Citron told AFP.

    The anonymity afforded by the Internet "gives people a kind of strength to be much harsher than they would be in person," Georgetown University sociology professor, and co-founder of International Reputation Management (IRM) Christine Schiwietz said.

    Reputation managers step in where the law has failed, to provide "digital botox" to names in need of repair, as Schiwietz put it.

    A group of women law students at prestigious Yale University who were attacked online, in what has come to be known as the Auto-Admit scandal, have taken on the services of reputation management group, Reputation Defender.

    "Auto-Admit was ostensibly a site for getting advice about going to law school, but it degenerated into attacks on named women who were accused of having herpes, having abortions. They got rape threats, death threats," said Citron.

    In a posting made last year, and which remains on the web and AFP was able to see, one of the students was called a whore and had lewd references made to her anatomy by numerous assailants who hid behind bogus pseudonyms such as Marty Lipton King Jr.

    Anonymity and strength in numbers are fueling the online attacks.

    "Five years ago, you had to create a website to get information on the Internet. That site could be traced to an IP address and there was some accountability," Nino Kader of IRM said.

    "But Google owns blogs created on blogger.com. So there is a lack of accountability and that is one reason why people are getting pretty malicious out there," he said.

    Citron likened vicious cyber-mobs to the mob mentality of the Ku Klux Klan.

    "If you're in a crowd where people hold the same negative view as you, and you feel anonymous, you're going to do things you would never dream of doing if you had no mask and hood on," Citron said.

    Reputation Defender is paying for a lawsuit filed by the women in the Auto-Admit case against their attackers, but up to now, victims of cyber-thuggery have had little redress in the courts.

    "The law doesn't allow victims to sue the site operators because they aren't writing this stuff," said Citron.

    "The difficulty in moving against the poster is that they often write under a pseudonym, are often not required to register with a site before posting, or use anonymizing technology. They are totally masked," she added.

    Step in the reputation managers: they not only react to online maligning, as Reputation Defenders did in the Auto-Admit case, but also tout proactivity as the best tool to protect clients from online character assassination.

    "It's more and more important to know what's out there about you," IRM's Kader said.

    IRM concentrates on how clients appear in a Google search because "unless you are a hermit, you will be googled," Schiwietz said.

    "There are around 10,000 Google searches made each second, and googling is expected to double or triple because you will be able to do a search anywhere with a handheld device," Kader said.

    "I've been at meetings where people have googled the person opposite them," he added.

    One method used by IRM to buff someone's Internet legacy is to get the good news about them as high up in Go

  5. Stupid is as Stupid does by rueger · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I really unusual in understanding that there are some things that one does not broadcast to the World? Am I alone is understanding that you don't post pictures of yourself drunk with transvestites on Facebook? Am I alone in understanding that you don't film youself in illegal acts and then stick it on YouTube?

    Honestly, I don't care what someone does in their private life, but if they don't understand the line between private and public I probably don't want them working for me. Really people, is it that hard to use a pseudonym and a hotmail address?

    1. Re:Stupid is as Stupid does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You realize of course that it's not just individuals who post potentially embarrassing information about themseleves to the web, but other people like friends, relatives, or even complete strangers that do it without the individual's consent. How do you control that, other than taking up residence in your parents basement and never going out into the daylight? Not everyone wants to be a slashdot reader, you know.

    2. Re:Stupid is as Stupid does by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Simple...
      Don't embarrass yourself in public.
      I was at a talk that a Pro Football player was giving to some kids about making good choices. BTW this guy wasn't doing court ordered community service and never has.
      He told the kids that the teams have a bunch of experts that try and help the player not do stupid things. This expert was a gun expert. He listed all the times where it would be a bad time to carry your gun. One of the players asked, "Whe is a good time to carry your gun?" The expert said, "If you are going into any situation where having a gun is a good idea not going into that situation to start with is a better idea."

      So if you don't want pictures of you at a party with drunk transvestites then don't go to a party with drunk transvestites.
      Even a "private" party is a public place.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  6. Yeah, but I'd like to erase my own idiot-ness by thomasdz · · Score: 2, Funny

    I was an idiot 15 years ago:
    http://groups.google.ca/group/comp.protocols.nfs/browse_thread/thread/76662c9239a05257
    Who can I talk to in order to erase the fact that I wanted to connect MSDOS and UNIX somehow.
    Imagine! Wanting to connect two different operating systems together over Ethernet... how silly.

    --
    Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
  7. Doesn't look too bad... by MiniMike · · Score: 5, Funny

    At least, I couldn't find anything negative about them posted anywhere...

  8. Does having a common name help protect privacy? by antifoidulus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I was using the stalker site veromi.net the other day and came to a realization: now with search engines being ubiqutous, people with really common names seem to enjoy a better shield against employers googling information than those who have uncommon names. For example, there are probably a lot more "Tim Smiths" out there than there are "Mustafa Wenzel"s. Tim Smith is probably harder to find online, and if he did anything stupid as a teen(got caught shoplifting or whatever), the employer would have a much harder time finding it.

    Then again, if you google my name, esp. my full name, without quotes, most of the results are porn..... I just happen to have the same last name as the stage name of a famous porn actress who frequently appears with a man whose stage first and last name is the same as my first and middle name respectively.

  9. How to Manage Your Reputation in One Easy Step: by aquatone282 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Stay the hell away from tequila.

    --
    What?
  10. It's not your myspace, it's your friends by WaltBusterkeys · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The problem isn't your myspace account -- you are smart enough to keep it clean. It's if your FRIENDS have a myspace account and post a picture of you, then tag it with your name. Or even if just your acquaintences.

    Or if some Anonymous Coward just lies completely and claims that a photo is of you (when it really isn't) just to be a jerk. If they post it through TOR then they can never be found. And a site like Encyclopedia Dramatica would never take it down. ED will claim that they're immune from liability forever under CDA 230, and the anonymous poster will never be found. It's a wierd situation where a bad act can go completely unpunished, even if the webhost knows that there's a problem.

    1. Re:It's not your myspace, it's your friends by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      "The problem isn't your myspace account -- you are smart enough to keep it clean. It's if your FRIENDS have a myspace account and post a picture of you, then tag it with your name. Or even if just your acquaintences."

      I guess sadly, these days, more than in mine, it is best to try to choose your "friends" more wisely, and also, you have to be more careful who you're around when you cut loose and get a little wild. No, in my day, you didn't have to worry about cameras everywhere...the cellphone type makes it dangerous to do anything these days....but, people still brought film cameras to parties. I still have tons of those pics in albums. But, in light of todays easy click-shoot-publish, I guess you have to be more careful about when and where you let your hair down so to speak.

      It is sad in that respect, and I know from being a kid, things like that aren't the primary thing you keep in mind most of the time (if at all).

      I guess these days, it is best if you learn a lesson that we used to get later in life...you have to be suspicious and wary of most people...at least till you get to know them for awhile. Be careful who you do things around.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  11. Try Asking, Nicely by Hittman · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here's something that might work: Ask, nicely.

    Back in '99 I wrote an article about someone who threatened lawsuits against people who had posted his poem. Last summer I got an e-mail from him ,asking, not demanding, that I take the article down because it was the first thing that came up when someone searched on his name. It was ancient history and not something he was proud of.

    I thought about it a bit, and, rather than remove the article, removed his name from it. It took about a month for Google to forget, but now when you search on his name the article is nowhere to be found.

    If he had demanded that it be taken down, I would have laughed and ignored him. If he had threatened legal action, I would have blogged about it and brought it even more attention. But he asked. That made all the difference.