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Life May Have Evolved In Ice
Philip Bailey writes "An article in this month's Discover Magazine claims that some of the fundamental organic molecules required for the development of life could have spontaneously arisen within ice. Scientist Stanley Miller was responsible for seminal experiments in the 1950s in this area. He used sparks and a mixture of inorganic chemicals to test his theories, but turned to low temperature experiments in later years. He was able to create the constituents of RNA and proteins from a mixture of cyanide, ammonia and ice in trials lasting up to 25 years. A process known as eutectic freezing is thought to be the basis of these results: small pockets of liquid water, in which foreign molecules are concentrated enormously, increases the reaction rates, and more than compensates for temperature-related slowing."
He should probably avoid Q if he wants to push up his success rate.
Was the earth even cold enough back then to have that much ice? My understanding is that life began about 3 billion years ago, and that Hadean Earth pretty much lasted until then.
So, the layout change was just for that one article? Please say yes...
I'm so happy to see things back to normal for this article -- you've no idea.
To be sure, some sparks were still needed for the ice theory but there you have it.
You can't send a takedown notice to an already printed newspaper.
I, for one, welcome our new penguin overlords.
All hail Tux!
Although I can certainly see how the physics of freezing would help concentrate biological precursors, I would expect an icy-origin to have left more evidence in the form of cryophilic biodiversity. With an icy origin, ice-tolerant organisms should have arisen quite early. Indeed they would have probably been the first life forms and ice-adapted life would have been quite common. Unless the Earth experienced a 100% ice-free period, descendants of those original cryophiles would be with us to this day. Moreover, many "normal" species would still arbor a shared genetic basis for evolving ice-tolerance or cryophilic lifestyles.
Instead, we seem to see limited scattering species that have independently evolved various forms of ice-tolerance. I could be wrong. If so, I'd love to hear if biologists have found evidence for a widely shared mechanism for ice-tolerance that speaks to a frozen beginning.
Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts do.
it is a take on DIGG, read Slashdot Founder Questions Crowd's Wisdom
"Steve Jobs invented the world" -- Bill W. GATES
Zonk, I always suspected you had ice running through your veins.
Some say in ice
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire
But if it had to bootstrap twice
I think I know enough of genes
To say that for mutation ice
Is also keen
And would suffice
You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
?
I don't get it.
Is this some new meme?
perforce
Indeed, especially since that was of course before cyanbacteria & friends turned off the enormous greenhouse effect by converting nearly all the CO2 to Oxygen - which then caused Snowball Earth and nearly killed life again (a chain of events the first intelligent form of life on this planet might want to keep in mind). I guess sol was much dimmer back then so that balanced out, or the intense vulcanism in on the young earth prevented much of the sunlight from reaching earth...
Sir, do you realize what you are doing is illegal in nerddom? Having ESPN and Slashdot in the same window could result in a nerd-jock cancellation reaction resulting in the destruction of the universe as we know it? Your nerd license has been officially revoked for participating in this dangerous behaviour.
Ever heard of watermelon snow? Or algae that lives on ice(and has a nice watermelon scent)? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_algae/ But, I definitely agree, why aren't cryophiles so much more common?
Knowing where something came from allows more insight into where it is going...
Please open your mind a little. This has, potentially, implications for possibilities of life elsewhere than on Earth...
Yes.
If we want to look for life on other planets then this research may help us, if it can be shown life is possible or even likely on frozen planets.
"We're here so let's make the most of it."
Yeah, let's not study ourselves, our origins, or science at all. Why bother with history? We're here, lets make the most of it.
Genius.
Yes, it does really matter. Knowing how life evolved gives us insights into how life works here and now. Answering these questions most certainly WILL change issues of today. And, even if they don't, who cares? It's knowledge. Humans have this insatiable urge to know everything they can, leading to today's technologically and medically advanced world. However, occasionally we get people who decry the process without understanding it.
I think they are saying that the molecular precursors to life on earth, can be created in ice. We see large chunks of flying ice in the universe. Our planet may have been implanted with the required precursors for life from ice flying into the planet.
I don't know so much that they are intending to say that the earliest life forms were created in ice.
But I don't know, I didn't read the article. Just taking a break from the superbowl.
Does it matter, yes it does. In fact, there is big big money in finding simple very primitive organisms. Primitive organisms are easy to engineer organisms, which means that it is easy to turn them into oil making machines, which means big bucks.
If we all had that sort of attitude, we would still be banging rocks together...
In Soviet Amerika the ballot boxes YOU!
...not Discovery.
Pedantic, yes, but errors in the summary irritate me no end.
I'm in no way qualified to even speak on this subject, but could it be that the Oxygen Catastrophe, in wiping out the great majority of life on Earth, provided sufficient selective pressure that any previous bias toward cryophilic life was effectively erased? I'm just speculating wildly here.
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
Another early experiment, in which he added Vanilla to the mix still haunts Professor Miller to this day.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
The missing ingredient! Life evolved out of penguin poop!
According to him:
"It's funny. It's cute. But here's what I really think about the theory of evolution: It's not real. It is not the way we got here. In fact, the life you see on this planet is really just a list of creatures God has allowed to live. We are not creations of random chance. We are not accidents. There is a God, a Creator, who made you and me. We were made in His image, which separates us from all other creatures."
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=52567
I have noticed when I freeze tap water or bottled water when I defrost it now its full of bacteria which just started happening since this summer. Are new cold/ice bacterias being released from the polar caps melting? Or are plastic bottles now cheaper and disintegrating when frozen?
I always knew that the ancient Nordic legends made infinitely more sense.... In the beginning, Ginnungagap yawned across the great void between the realms of fire and cold. When the warm air from the south met the cold air from the north, the ice of Ginnungagap began to melt. Drop by drop fell forming Ymir, the Frost Giant and first living thing of all. And from Ymir sprang the race of Frost Giants. The drops of melting ice from Ginnungagap also formed Audhumla, the primal cow. Her milk nourished Ymir at the start of creation. As Audhumla licked and licked at the ice of Ginnungagap, she revealed something frozen in the ice. She licked for days and finally Buri, the first man, was freed from his frozen prison. Buri, had a son, Bor, who married Bestla, the daughter of a Frost Giant. They in turn had three sons, Odin, Vili, and Ve. These were the first gods. Stick that in your frankincense burner and...well burn it...
"...a civilian some of the time, a soldier part of the time and a patriot all of the time." -Brig. Gen. James Drain
I take it they have met my ex.
To paraphrase: bullshit.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Now all the crazy evangelicals will be saying that scientists think we all came from ice cubes.
it's ?safe? & easy to conclude, if we were derived from (frozen) muck. &, as in the randoidian 'school' of lazy-is-fair, every man for himself, there's just no responsibility for any illegal/immoral behaviors. let yOUR conscience be yOUR guide. you can be more helpful than you might have imagined. there are still some choices. if they do not suit you, consider the likely results of continuing to follow the corepirate nazi hypenosys story LIEn, whereas anything of relevance is replaced almost instantly with pr ?firm? scriptdead mindphuking propaganda or 'celebrity' trivia 'foam'. meanwhile; don't forget to get a little more oxygen on yOUR brain, & look up in the sky from time to time, starting early in the day. there's lots going on up there.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071229/ap_on_sc/ye_climate_records;_ylt=A0WTcVgednZHP2gB9wms0NUE
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080108/ts_alt_afp/ushealthfrancemortality;_ylt=A9G_RngbRIVHsYAAfCas0NUE
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/31/opinion/31mon1.html?em&ex=1199336400&en=c4b5414371631707&ei=5087%0A
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/01/military.suicides/index.html
is it time to get real yet? A LOT of energy is being squandered in attempts to keep US in the dark. in the end (give or take a few 1000 years), the creators will prevail (world without end, etc...), as it has always been. the process of gaining yOUR release from the current hostage situation may not be what you might think it is. butt of course, most of US don't know, or care what a precarious/fatal situation we're in. for example; the insidious attempts by the felonious corepirate nazi execrable to block the suns' light, interfering with a requirement (sunlight) for us to stay healthy/alive. it's likely not good for yOUR health/memories 'else they'd be bragging about it? we're intending for the whoreabully deceptive (they'll do ANYTHING for a bit more monIE/power) felons to give up/fail even further, in attempting to control the 'weather', as well as a # of other things/events.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=video+cloud+spraying
dictator style micro management has never worked (for very long). it's an illness. tie that with life0cidal aggression & softwar gangster style bullying, & what do we have? a greed/fear/ego based recipe for disaster. meanwhile, you can help to stop the bleeding (loss of life & limb);
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/28/vermont.banning.bush.ap/index.html
the bleeding must be stopped before any healing can begin. jailing a couple of corepirate nazi hired goons would send a clear message to the rest of the world from US. any truthful look at the 'scorecard' would reveal that we are a society in decline/deep doo-doo, despite all of the scriptdead pr ?firm? generated drum beating & flag waving propaganda that we are constantly bombarded with. is it time to get real yet? please consider carefully ALL of yOUR other 'options'. the creators will prevail. as it has always been.
corepirate nazi execrable costs outweigh benefits
(Score:-)mynuts won, the king is a fink)
by ourselves on everyday 24/7
as there are no benefits, just more&more death/debt & disruption. fortunately there's an 'army' of light bringers, coming yOUR way. the little ones/innocents must/will be protected. after the big flash, ALL of yOUR imaginary 'borders' may blur a bit? for each of the creators' innocents harmed in any
Probably a Patriot fan - calm down man, it ain't the end of life. ;-)
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
I'd argue that a good hardware design (digital logic, verilog, gate construction, basic circuit design) course and an assembly language course would be invaluable to the modern computer science major.
You don't make the poor richer by making the rich poorer. - Winston Churchill
but that would be kind of a chicken-and-egg thing, now wouldn't it?
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Nigga you slow!
Yours is bullshit. All computer science students should know about punch cards and paper tape, and know how/why we ended up where we are now. Since we are not creators of life [yet], the only feasible way to know such things about life is to perform experiments. Other way is to travel around galaxies looking for similar conditions and observing them.
On the other hand, it helps to know the initial conditions of the system when one is trying to fit experimental data to a mathematical model.
Besides, what does computer programming have to do with computer science? It's like a comparison between an accountant and a mathematician. They can both add numbers together, but only one of them is a scientist.
The sad irony is that Himmler and other leading Nazis believed something somewhat similar, namely that Aryans were created in cosmic ice (which then rained down on earth and spawned Germanic tribes).
Seriously.
---
BDOS ERR ON A:>
Definitely. I knew that the first time I took ice. Oh its a magical thing...
So will global warming stop evolution?
The government can't save you.
Someone do me a favor, and get this posters IP. I will personally strangle him, with my bare hands until dead.
I have read Dr. Stanley Miller's work sine the 80s, He is a meticulous and persistant with his experiments. His conjectures run all over the map. I saw a lecture given by him in the early 90s, when he was progressing away from primordial soup. What is interesting is that He is moving towards the theories of Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe that life evolved on comets. Of all the 'science' and 'scientists' its after reading their work, and discussing it with post-docs from MIT, that I have a great respect for their work.
The problem about the origin of life, (which has a direct impact on the evaluation of Drake's equation) is how hard is it to make a molecule, by 'chance' that is selectively self-replicating. Molecular biology is a very young field.
With just a layman's knowledge (and some high school science) I have a plausible answer after thinking about it for just a few seconds. I was taught that cold temperatures slow down chemical reactions. I was also taught that advantageous traits work evolution through breeding pressures. Well I would hope the life that is able to undergo the biochemical reactions at many times the speed would be the life that evolved to fill every ecological niche. Think about it, by the time the cryophiles have made one viable mutation, the other little critters could have been through 10 to 20 variations - any of which might actually be better suited for the cold environment than the original cryophiles.
My point is that the idea that you should learn history because that tells you where you are going is bullshit contrived by historians to try pump up their value in society.
Learn how life is constructed (DNA, cells, proteins...) is valuable, finding out whether it first happened in a volcano, comet or icecube is largely irrelevant.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
127.0.0.1
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
And the article claims it's a new theory. Bah! Bah, I say!
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
They should. It teaches them the foundations of things.
On our course we used a turing machine simulator for a couple of weeks. You can't get much more historical/fundamental than that. It was useful to look at the nucleus of the science and the mathematical foundations. It gave us insight into the basis of all computers, and how/where things were likely not to change in future.
Same can be said of life. Looking at our origins and our species' history helps us explain things like the coccyx.
I'd love to hear if biologists have found evidence for a widely shared mechanism for ice-tolerance that speaks to a frozen beginning.
Bacteria have pretty efficient genomes; any such mechanisms would have been long lost in descendants that don't live in the ice.
Unless the Earth experienced a 100% ice-free period,
It probably did, but not even that is necessary: even if there had always been polar ice caps, there is no region where ice has survived permanently. Therefore, any of the original ice dwelling organisms would have had to pass through a soup of warm-adapted organisms. Any ancient ice adapted organisms probably just either died or got eaten.
Some say that Life evolved in Fire
Some say in Ice
From what I've tasted of Desire,
I hold with those who favor Fire.
Yet if it had to evolve twice,
I think I know enough of Hate
To say that for Creation Ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
The grandparent post got it wrong. Dinosaurs lasted for about 180 Million years, and died off about 65 Million years ago. Before that, there was a time when most plants were ferns, animals were mostly insects and amphibians, with a few reptiles. That was when the first protomammals appeard. That period lasted for 50 to 100 million years on most timelines. Before that, life was mostly in the oceans. (fish and such). before that, there were shelled organisms and worms. That takes us back almost 500 million years. Before that, there were sponge like things, and maybe jellyfish like things. Fossils aren't very good for animals that are basicly a smear of goo. Before that, you hit the snowball earth period, maybe 200 Million years. Maybe longer. Only life forms were single cells. Possibly a little lichen on land. Maybe not. Mostly bacteria. Before that, we just don't know. This is the earliest period with evidence of an oxygen containing atmosphere. (O2, not CO2)The geologists can tell by the kind of minerals that form.
If you add this all up, you get roughly a Billion years, Plus or minus maybe 200 Million. Earth is just a little younger than the Sun, maybe 4.5 to 5 billion years. That's the period, after Earth formed and before the first animal fossils, that is mostly unknown. It's gennerally believed that for the first 2 to 2 1/2 Billion years, asteroid bombardment kept the surface melted. There was a gigantic colision that resulted in the Moon, about 2 1/2 Billion years ago. All our atmosphere and oceans are younger than that. (any atmosphere from before that would have been blasted off into space by the colision with a planet close to the size of Mars. Earth and Moon are what is left.)
I hope this lets you understand the time lines they are talking about.
Everybody knows 3 people with my name.
On the other hand, if that's *not* how life evolved here, then it wasn't significant for history here, and the Ice Planet can have it if they want.
You can adjust those theories as needed if you think Panspermia was part of the process; it seems far less likely to me, but it's possible that some of the chemicals needed for life to evolve came from interstellar dust, or that some of Terrence McKenna's mushroom-spores-from-outer-space theories could be true (oh, wow, man!), but either of those cases could include some evolution in ice, whether that's Martian polar caps or moons of Europa or whatever.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Man that's cool =D
Science rocks.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
So, instead of arising from the primordial soup, we arose from the primordial slushie? Damn, that must explain my taste for Sno-Cones....
you really expect me to be able to express my opinion of what's so fucked up in this world in 120 characters or less?
I got him.... eeccchhhhh
NO CARRIER