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Microsoft Upgrades Vista Kernel in SP1
KrispySausage writes "One of the big features discussed in early speculation of Windows Vista SP1 was the kernel upgrade, which was supposed to bring the operating system into line with the Longhorn kernel used in Windows Server 2008. With Vista SP1 going RTM, there hasn't been so much as a peep from Microsoft about the mooted kernel update. Has it happened? Well the answer is yes it has. Presumably the main reason for Microsoft's silence on the subject is that as they're keen to promote the improvements and enhancements to Vista, rather than placing emphasis on a kernel upgrade, which some people might see as a risk of newly-introduced instability."
I thought "improvements and enhancements" was MS marketing speak for "newly-introduced instability".
thats right, I rarely use capitals. deal with it. but don't mistake my laziness for stupidity
Not to mention that almost everything they've done to promote Vista has been aimed at the end-user, the joe-blow consumer. That user has no idea what the kernel is or why they should care -- it's just geeky mumbo-jumbo that would scare their target Vista audience.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
The kernel might pop?
"which some people might see as a risk of newly-introduced instability."
now who would think that? Honestly now, lets see some hands. You in the back, PUT YOUR DAMN HANDS IN THE AIR!
When adding ANY code, there is risk of security vulnerabilities and potential exploits. Sadly, most people seem to not know this.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
As much as I hate (detest, revile) to admit that a good Vista is good for everyone in someways (slower viruses, etc.), ... oh wait. I can't get over hoping Vista dies a horrible flaming death. I don't mean to flame/troll... I know I'm biased.
Prepare for a new worm. They either:
1. Fixed something exploitable
2. Created something exploitable
I doubt they found everything. Even less likely they actually fixed what they did find.
Seriously, you're telling me that a version number jump in the kernel during a Service Pack is somehow news? And not only that but *unconfirmed* reports of that. *With screenshots*. Wow.
And what does it do. What does the new 0.0.1 add to Windows? Dunno. There isn't a word about it in the article, just some screenshots of version numbers.
How the bloody hell does this make the front page?
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20080205/real-reason-vista-sp1-not-released/
Sinofsky's devs still have work to do, it seems. I mean come on; what the fuck changed between XP and Vista to kill file transfer times like that over a 1gbit network?
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
So they've decided to distribute linux afterall?
As bad as Vista has been doing, this better be a huge upgrade, or 2008 server is setting itself up as a huge flop from the get go. Unless of course they assume that servers are run by professionals who don't need the "allow or deny" pop-ups, and don't watch HD videos with special DRM.
I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
They didn't put any electrolytes in it...
..of SP1 RTM, kind of like what the exo performance/xpnet people did late last year.
I am one of the many who switched back to XP..performance on my tablet stunk with Vista. However, I did like some of the ease-of-use mobility features, but it wasn't worth the grief of performance and drivers.
I would like to run Vista....I just need a compelling reason to do so.
I do not get it. On my Suse box I see Linux kernel updates all the time. So Microsoft Updated the kernel to match 2008. How do we not know the only difference between the two kernels was 10 lines of code or something? So the version/build number changed. We do not know what changed. Can a normal user tell exactly what the differences were between Windows 2000 and XP (NOTICE I SAID NORMAL USER!!!) no they can not. I do not think normal people (the majority of Microsoft's user base) will know the difference. Maybe someone working for an anti virus company will notice or maybe a slashdot reader but not the majority of the users. Honestly I think this is just more slashdot fud on the front page to bash Microsoft for doing something that Linux does every few months.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
It's long since I got excited about a Linux kernel update. Since I upgrade the kernel along with everything else perhaps it's hard to say, but on the plain non-virtualized desktop running conventional applications there aren't any revolutions going on. There's new drivers but in theory every USB device is already supported by Linux, it's the userland bits that are missing. Don't get me wrong I'm sure there's a lot of important developments going on, I just don't see it affecting me. Or if it does, it's some months later when applications or the control center improves somehow. I think the situation is much the same for Vista...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
That's how much you rev the version number by when all you are doing is fixing bugs that only required very minor code change.
Mmmm.. Donuts
In other news, Linux v2.6.19.3 was released on February 5, 2007 (6 days after Vista). There have been 75 new kernel releases since then. Source: going to ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ and counting ChangeLogs since then.
I'm not sure why this is news.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
What is the difference between the Vista and Longhorn kernels? What advantage would I see from this upgrade? Is it more stable? Are there features (scheduling features I'd guess, better realtime support maybe?) that Vista doesn't currently have? Other than the danger of introducing new and exciting bugs, why do I even care?
I read the internet for the articles.
...licking and sucking my wife's feet. Mmmmmm... they were good and smelly, too.
As opposed to the pervasive long-standing instability inherent to Windows operating systems?
This is Micro$oft we're talking about. They fixed 20 exploitable things and put in 30 more exploitable things, but will refuse to admit the 30 in the name of "security through obscurity."
That's some kind of contradiction along the lines of "military intelligence." I kid.
Slightly off topic:
Vista desktop + openldap win32 binaries + apache and bind = GNU Windows Server?
openldap on win32: http://www.openldap.org/lists/openldap-software/200705/msg00152.html
apache2: http://httpd.apache.org/download.cgi
kerberos5: http://web.mit.edu/Kerberos/kfw-3.2/kfw-3.2.2.html
Granted, the average win32 admin will hit a wall because Microsoft does not design their product, documents and services for an admin smart enough to DIY.
Openldap/kerberos5/apache2 opens many, many more security/identity/authentication possibilities than Microsoft's active directory.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
As long as they get rid of that stupid "calculating time to transfer files" dialog.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
This is a smart move. It's easier to develop one kernel than two, so standardizing the two made sense. They've had more time to beat on Server 2008 and test it, and are incorporating those changes.
The end user won't see this, but the end user doesn't care. Their flashy GUI and UAC (snicker) will run faster as a result.
technical writing / development
Now for more than 1 year launching, microsoft release SP1 for vista? is that so fast?
There is no separate "Windows kernel" and "server kernel" or whatever nonsense the article is talking about. There is one Windows kernel...the current version as of late 2006 shipped with Vista RTM, the current version as of now shipped with Vista SP1 and Server 2008. Not clear why anybody would expect anything different.
Slashd^(ot 'BSD is
Think of it this way; which does Windows need more of a foot-holding in; the server market or the desktop market? Let me give you a clue.
throw new NoSignatureException();
First of all, I don't want to use Vista. I now run a half crippled XP because HP refuse point blank to supply XP drivers for this model.
Vista is a failure. Even though people complained non stop when XP came out, the adoption rate was MASSIVE when compared to Vista.
Microsoft: From the moment the very first Longhorn alpha were leaked to P2P networks, and people got a taste of the new MS vision, Vista was doomed to fail. Even though there was a complete rewrite, it was all downhill from this point.
I suggest you put this one down to experiance Microsoft and realize that your user base is becoming more and more knowledgeable and discerning. Your old tactics will not work for much longer.
Let see if you can come up with something REALLY good with the new MinWin (Windows 7). From what I've heard about the kernel development, it takes a lot from the modular approach used in many Unices, and if MS can build a (fairly) open, and moreover loosly coupled modular system, then I think they'll be onto a winner.
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Finally, another tablet user!
I occasionally game on my unit, so now I'm running an XP/Vista dual-boot, but msot of my work time is in Vista these days. For my unit, it doesn't seem to be appreciably slower than XP was, (but to be fair, I'm not running Aero Glass since the integrated graphics don't support it) and some of the features work noticeably better.
For me specifically:
- Handwriting Recognition is improved. (In both English, and Japanese.)
- Searching was greatly improved.
- Hibernation to file now restores properly every time.
System specs:
Toshiba R15-s822
1.6GHz Pentium M
160GB HD
2GB RAM
Vista Ultimate.
Would you tell me a bit more about your Vista experience? Specifically, was it the over-all experience that sent you running back to XP, or was it the tablet specific features?
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
The Vista kernel, is probibly the ONLY thing going good for it. ONLY. Nothing else seems to be some kind of 'improvement' The UI blows, Mabye a smidgen of DX10, interesting, but coming to XP, sureptitiously. BUT not on any production machine, or one that I cannot run multiple OSs on.
The Longhorn kernel? Probibly another improvement, technology wise. Really just M$ Business as usual.
"Service Pack 1 remains the milestone by which many companies and consumers judge when a Microsoft product is truly bug-free and mature enough to deploy."
Now that is Sad. Windows 2000 is just getting to be a good product, after Service Pack 4+. Stable, but still has that pesky scheduler that blows...but for single applications or games, its pretty good. Only crashed once, so far in about a year. I downgraded from XP, when SP2 cut my frame rates in half, ate a ton of Ram for lunch, and cut the netspeed again by half.
XP maybe maturing in the next few years, but I cannot wait to look at the LongHorn Kernel:
There are a few presentations about the Vista kernel, that make me want to upgrade, but even at a 15% discount at CompUSA liquidation, I am still not buying. ( Home and business editions probibly come with a 'limited' kernel. ).
are the 2008 Server changes made to address the incompatibility issues Vista had with older software? If they are, then great.
What I had originally heard was that Windows 2008 Server and Vista SP1 were going to be based on XP code for compatibility issues in order to make the OS more stable and more compatible. I am not sure how much XP code was used on the new kernel.
Since I support many friends and family members who have Vista machines, I am thinking of buying a new PC with Vista preinstalled on it, and hopefully SP1 to see if it fixes the problems that the original Vista had. As I recall the original XP also had instability issues and compatibility issues and XP SP1 fixed those, and then XP SP2 made even more improvements and made XP more stable and more compatible.
What I hope is that Vista SP1 ends up being what the original Vista had promised. The only thing is the hardware requirements for Vista are 3 times or more the requirements that XP had. So of course upgrading an XP machine to Vista is going to run it slower. Vista on a newer machine made in 2007/2008 should run a lot better than Vista on a 2004/2005/2006 machine.
If all else fails, I hope that ReactOS is developed into a stable build in 2008/2009 some time. People need to keep an eye on that open sourced OS. Once it goes into beta testing, it is in alpha right now, but 0.4 or 0.5 will enter Beta testing and be good enough to use as an alternative to Windows.
Keep in mind that Windows 2008 Server is based on Windows 2003 Server, which was based on Windows XP. Windows Vista was not based on Windows XP, but was a rewrite attempt. Vista and Longhorn are actually too different projects, Vista was a rewrite of Windows, while Longhorn was based on Windows XP. At least that is what I heard.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
If that was a good idea. Microsoft spent so much time replacing things that worked with XP, for example Networking, that on Vista they were not mature at launch. I'm sure the new kernel is actually a nice piece of work, but IMHO they should wait until Windows Server 2008 SP1 then replace the kernel on Vista with one that is leaner and proven to be stable.
You know it's not that we don't like new features and upgrades, it's just that by 2007-2008 we expected Microsoft to be better at designing OSs. Should they get an automatic pass with every OS release just because "hey, you know they will get it right by SP2". I say phooey to that. Demand more.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
...and go after the reference drivers for your components. Pull the make and model numbers off of your chips that you need drivers for and head after them via Google.
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
Ya gotta love the wording here:
"Also coming with SP1 but not in the current release candidate, we will also be including updates that deal with two exploits we have seen, which can affect system stability for our customers. The OEM Bios exploit, which involves modifying system files and the BIOS of the motherboard to mimic a type of product activation performed on copies of Windows that are pre-installed by OEMs in the factory. The Grace Timer exploit, which attempts to reset the "grace time" limit between installation and activation to something like the year 2099 in some cases."
http://www.istartedsomething.com/20071208/vista-sp1-changelog/
How the hell was that off-topic? He didn't criticize Linux so you can't even mod him "-1: disagrees with me".
The very fact that this story makes it to the front page but http://it.slashdot.org/firehose.pl?op=view&id=504352/ remains unloved in the Firehose pretty much epitomises what is rubbish about Slashdot.
Slashdot is many things but news it ain't. Microsoft release a service pack for their OS. They do this because they need to change things. So they decide to use a different version number from the previous release of the OS. How on earth can that be a surprise to anyone? Please can someone explain the significance of that? When was any OS updated without the version and build numbers changing?
One of the most respected experts on Windows internals blogs all about the technical details behind the much discussed Vista copy issues, and about what MS have done to improve things with SP1. And that post languishes in the Firehose? Has anyone else here heard of Mark Russinovich? Or Sysinternals? Or is it just me?!
Microsoft Windows Vista SP1:
Codenamed: XP
I love my ThinkPad X61 tablet :)
It arrived from the factory with Vista Business, but I became so fed up with issues connecting to wifi that I wiped it and installed XP Pro the same day. After a few weeks of struggling to use my new much-anticipated tablet functionality, and then using a friend's tablet that still had Vista Business, I decided to give Vista another shot. I can't believe I battled XP for so long--maybe the XP drivers are just shoddy for my model, but the tablet was practically unusable (everything else was acceptable, but I could have saved a few hundred dollars, a few ounces of mass, and gotten a more reliable screen hinge if I didn't want the tablet).
Vista has far superior handwriting recognition, and now my multitouch actually works as it should so I can use a fingertip instead of a stylus. After reverting to the Win2k theme, my battery life is about the same as under XP. Hopefully SP1 will improve this even more. I still dual-boot XP to run my VJ software, and I run Xubuntu on my own time, but Vista is my best choice for academics and business. Anyone with a tablet should give it a shot. When decent linux drivers are available then I'll rid my tablet of the MS funk.
System specs:
1.6GHz Core 2 Duo (L7500)
100MB 7200RPM HDD
2GB DDR2 RAM
Vista Enterprise / XP Pro / Xubuntu
"Don't hate the media, become the media." -Jello Biafra
Maybe they didn't tell anyone because they were afraid that people would start to kernel panic about it.
I'll be hiding now.
today is spelling optional day.
The thing that intrigues me is how they are going to fix the speed/memory issues without ripping DRM out. I have a hard time seeng other than smaller improvements in isolated areas as to Vistas performance less they rip/replace large parts of it. A new thorough benchmark comparing XP SP2 vs Vista SP1 would be very interesting. Does it still demand 2 GB to run smoothly under moderate load? Had one for testing on my desk a while ago (im a sysadmin) and frankly it was a real dog.
Dont get me started at audio issues in most games and audio applications, EAX? forgedaboutit!
HTTP/1.1 400
maybe that's why they are so quiet.
I'm wondering if xpsp3 is going to include a kernel upgrade as well..
Comment removed based on user account deletion
What's purple and commutes? An Abelian grape.
I hope they fix the bug where you sleep, wake the PC up and your network connection is gone for good unless you disable/enable the hardware. It's rendered the sleep feature useless.
Oh and I would like to see the shutdown button actually shut down the PC but I'm just a romantic dreamer.
but to be fair, I'm not running Aero Glass since the integrated graphics don't support it)
Although I doubt you will have a choice(as all probably will), but for your future Tablet purchase, make sure the Video in it supports Glass.
The DWM/Aero interface in Vista is actually 'faster' than running in non-glass mode.
Most people assume the 'pretty' = slower, which is incorrect with the Vista reference to Glass. The only exception is a couple of odd cycle GeforceFX (the oldest to support glass) GPUs, and by correctly setting the GPU clockrate due to a driver issue clocking it down or by turning off the 'blurred' edges that Glass also does increased the performance of even these 2003 level video cards back to faster than XP and Vista Basic with Glass/Aero on.
When the Aero interface in enabled, not only is the WDDM composer handling the redraws, etc, but additional acceleration in areas of the GDI and especially in native WPF and Direct3D applications running.
Sadly, many users think glass always hurts performance and turns it off for speed, when they are often slowing down redrawing of applications by a factor of 2x to 20x depending on the type of application. This is really horrible when you see reviewers of Vista using A) Old pre-June 07 video Drivers B) Doing performance test day one, while Vista is optimizing, C) Turning off glass and SuperFetch and other technologies in Vista that actually make things faster - and then the reviewers complain the system is slower than XP or seems slow to them, and it would from their own idiocy.
I have been a Tablet user (Digitizer from CAD days to Portables) for over 20 years now and even on desktop PCs a pen tablet is my preferred interface. Vista does well as a Tablet OS, not only with handling ink but handrecognition and being able to even search for handwritten text in documents is quite exception and a testament to why Vista does some things rather well.
Here is a Tip from Tablet PC users to non-Tablet users:
Go into the Folder options and turn on 'Enable Check Boxes to Select' - this is a Tablet feature anyone can use, and is a great alternative to having to use Ctrl-Click to select specific documents/files when using Explorer, and it something that is there if want to use and doesn't get in your way if you don't.
>> I occasionally game on my unit,
I bet you do, I'll bet you do... Nudge-nudge say no more, say no more!
I faced the bug where I'd lose my network connection after restoring from Sleep mode. But it was fixed about a month ago during one of the automatic updates.
Configuring the shutdown button to actually shut down the pc is actually quite easy. Just go to:
Control Panel --> Hardware & Sound --> Power Options
From the panel on the left, click on "Choose what the Power buttons do"
Hope this helps.
Ok now all I have to do is wait for SP2 and then rush and buy VISTA !
Chris ,
Php Programmers.
Give me a break. XP's networking stack was NOT the panacea. XP's network stack was not able to adaptively adjust its TCP window size based on network latencies etc. Also, it wasn't built to cleanly support IPv6. Vista's new network stack does both of these, plus adds support for SMB 3.0 which DRAMATICALLY improves the performance of copying files to/from Vista/Server2008 machines. I nearly fell over the first time I saw my Vista machine saturate it's network socket whilst copying files to another Vista box. Whilst there were indeed some unfortunate bugs in Vista RTM's network stack, SP1 has nailed a huge number of these issues and it's network performance is now AWESOME. Microsoft also took the time to adjust how SuperFetch and the File Indexers worked, reducing the brutal disk pounding that Vista RTM delivered to users' hard drives and which accounted for the vast majority of percieved performance issues. SP1 is now smooth, fast and enormously more usable for practically all desktop uses. Server 2008 is a wonderful improvement over the already hugely respectable Server 2003. Both Vista and Server share much common code. Server, of course, has extra features that Vista client doesn't need (e.g. DNS, DHCP, WINS, AD, WDS, etc. services), but the core kernel and the vast majority of the rest of the core OS are the same code. Since Server 2008 has been tuned, issues fixed and features improved in the 18 months since the Vista team had to down tools on new feature implementations, they've done a great deal of work to improve perf and stability. So before bitchslapping VistaSP1/Server2008, why not take them out for a drive - I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
hey, i choose to upgrade my kernel to the latest v2.6.x.x linux kernel each week
- to get the latest features and bleeding edge OS designs.
i guess thats why my 1.2GHz P4 will run rings around a 2.2GHz CoreDuo running Vista
I'd like to join your Active Directory chapter of the Right Thinking Fellows Club. That's right. I see the hideous errors of my years of misguided ways. From big companies to little, Active Directory just works! There isn't a single limitation with the product.
I will need a new job though, as my current line of work is fixing the mess that my new friends in the Active Directory chapter of the Right Thinking Fellows Club make. And it looks like I'll need to get paid less too, which will cut into my family's standard of living and create a great deal of uncertainty. But that's okay because Active Directory just works and is everything to everyone.
Thanks for straightening me out.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
In other words, you have no substantive reply
Your inference is false. There are many substantive points to discuss. Your belligerence leaves no room for discussion.
Also, I never said AD was perfect
Oh really? You sure implied it while you were shouting me down. "Huh? Of course it does" to a couple of big-time Linux/Win gotchas sounds like a ringing endorsement to me.
though it really is a good product.
Keep telling yourself that. Your biggest employers/customers will be hiring me to clean up your mess.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html