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Microsoft Upgrades Vista Kernel in SP1
KrispySausage writes "One of the big features discussed in early speculation of Windows Vista SP1 was the kernel upgrade, which was supposed to bring the operating system into line with the Longhorn kernel used in Windows Server 2008. With Vista SP1 going RTM, there hasn't been so much as a peep from Microsoft about the mooted kernel update. Has it happened? Well the answer is yes it has. Presumably the main reason for Microsoft's silence on the subject is that as they're keen to promote the improvements and enhancements to Vista, rather than placing emphasis on a kernel upgrade, which some people might see as a risk of newly-introduced instability."
I thought "improvements and enhancements" was MS marketing speak for "newly-introduced instability".
thats right, I rarely use capitals. deal with it. but don't mistake my laziness for stupidity
Not to mention that almost everything they've done to promote Vista has been aimed at the end-user, the joe-blow consumer. That user has no idea what the kernel is or why they should care -- it's just geeky mumbo-jumbo that would scare their target Vista audience.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
"which some people might see as a risk of newly-introduced instability."
now who would think that? Honestly now, lets see some hands. You in the back, PUT YOUR DAMN HANDS IN THE AIR!
When adding ANY code, there is risk of security vulnerabilities and potential exploits. Sadly, most people seem to not know this.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Seriously, you're telling me that a version number jump in the kernel during a Service Pack is somehow news? And not only that but *unconfirmed* reports of that. *With screenshots*. Wow.
And what does it do. What does the new 0.0.1 add to Windows? Dunno. There isn't a word about it in the article, just some screenshots of version numbers.
How the bloody hell does this make the front page?
They didn't put any electrolytes in it...
..of SP1 RTM, kind of like what the exo performance/xpnet people did late last year.
I am one of the many who switched back to XP..performance on my tablet stunk with Vista. However, I did like some of the ease-of-use mobility features, but it wasn't worth the grief of performance and drivers.
I would like to run Vista....I just need a compelling reason to do so.
I do not get it. On my Suse box I see Linux kernel updates all the time. So Microsoft Updated the kernel to match 2008. How do we not know the only difference between the two kernels was 10 lines of code or something? So the version/build number changed. We do not know what changed. Can a normal user tell exactly what the differences were between Windows 2000 and XP (NOTICE I SAID NORMAL USER!!!) no they can not. I do not think normal people (the majority of Microsoft's user base) will know the difference. Maybe someone working for an anti virus company will notice or maybe a slashdot reader but not the majority of the users. Honestly I think this is just more slashdot fud on the front page to bash Microsoft for doing something that Linux does every few months.
I smoked pot once. But I DID NOT inhale. Will you hire me?
In case you haven't noticed ... Vista is a new OS and _not_ an incremental update of XP.
The overall design of it may be good but of course there is going to be bugs at this point in the game. It seems like everyone keeps forgetting how complicated an OS is.
Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
In other news, Linux v2.6.19.3 was released on February 5, 2007 (6 days after Vista). There have been 75 new kernel releases since then. Source: going to ftp://ftp.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/ and counting ChangeLogs since then.
I'm not sure why this is news.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
Maybe you should, you know, keep up. Network and sound drivers are both now userland. Network purposefully yields to the sound driver when its playing sound so you don't get choppy sound. There's a bug where it yields too much. And only if you're copying files on a LAN, IIRC. It was missed because they didn't do testing on a gbit network card.
This has been known almost since Vista's release... where have you been?
This is Micro$oft we're talking about. They fixed 20 exploitable things and put in 30 more exploitable things, but will refuse to admit the 30 in the name of "security through obscurity."
This is a smart move. It's easier to develop one kernel than two, so standardizing the two made sense. They've had more time to beat on Server 2008 and test it, and are incorporating those changes.
The end user won't see this, but the end user doesn't care. Their flashy GUI and UAC (snicker) will run faster as a result.
technical writing / development
What does this mean for Vista SP1? Well, there should be very little reason to use Windows 2008 as a desktop OS. One could imagine that some geek/pro user workloads (network/disk I/O, anyone?) might be improved. On the other hand, these changes should already be in the SP release candidates, and the reviews of those haven't shown any big changes. A practical concern would be that the platforms should be similar from now on, like in the W2K days. I guess that will make at least some hardware vendor developers happy. Maybe this will also mean that additional hotfixes more acutely needed for server scenarios will trickle down to Vista.
I am similarly conflicted. On one hand I want the spectacle. On the other I know that I'm just going to have to support it over the phone for my parents.
And let me just head off anyone who is going to suggest "install Linux for them" or "get them to buy a mac..." I will say that I live thousands of miles away from them and, quite frankly, they're getting older and the change would probably be more trouble than it is worth.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
First of all, I don't want to use Vista. I now run a half crippled XP because HP refuse point blank to supply XP drivers for this model.
Vista is a failure. Even though people complained non stop when XP came out, the adoption rate was MASSIVE when compared to Vista.
Microsoft: From the moment the very first Longhorn alpha were leaked to P2P networks, and people got a taste of the new MS vision, Vista was doomed to fail. Even though there was a complete rewrite, it was all downhill from this point.
I suggest you put this one down to experiance Microsoft and realize that your user base is becoming more and more knowledgeable and discerning. Your old tactics will not work for much longer.
Let see if you can come up with something REALLY good with the new MinWin (Windows 7). From what I've heard about the kernel development, it takes a lot from the modular approach used in many Unices, and if MS can build a (fairly) open, and moreover loosly coupled modular system, then I think they'll be onto a winner.
You feel sleepy. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise.
Finally, another tablet user!
I occasionally game on my unit, so now I'm running an XP/Vista dual-boot, but msot of my work time is in Vista these days. For my unit, it doesn't seem to be appreciably slower than XP was, (but to be fair, I'm not running Aero Glass since the integrated graphics don't support it) and some of the features work noticeably better.
For me specifically:
- Handwriting Recognition is improved. (In both English, and Japanese.)
- Searching was greatly improved.
- Hibernation to file now restores properly every time.
System specs:
Toshiba R15-s822
1.6GHz Pentium M
160GB HD
2GB RAM
Vista Ultimate.
Would you tell me a bit more about your Vista experience? Specifically, was it the over-all experience that sent you running back to XP, or was it the tablet specific features?
If there's a castle floating upside down in the sky, then there's a castle floating upside down in the sky.
I know Linux kernel devs have been switching up the schedulers lately. Well, last year or so. You could conceivably notice that and even get excited about it depending on how it helps multimedia and such. For any other OS, changing the process scheduler and pager would be a pretty big deal.
Of course, it *is* just the kernel. There is so much more to a modern OS that it is hard to stay focused on the kernel unless you're a developer.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
"...where have you been?"
Waiting for his download to finish...
There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
are the 2008 Server changes made to address the incompatibility issues Vista had with older software? If they are, then great.
What I had originally heard was that Windows 2008 Server and Vista SP1 were going to be based on XP code for compatibility issues in order to make the OS more stable and more compatible. I am not sure how much XP code was used on the new kernel.
Since I support many friends and family members who have Vista machines, I am thinking of buying a new PC with Vista preinstalled on it, and hopefully SP1 to see if it fixes the problems that the original Vista had. As I recall the original XP also had instability issues and compatibility issues and XP SP1 fixed those, and then XP SP2 made even more improvements and made XP more stable and more compatible.
What I hope is that Vista SP1 ends up being what the original Vista had promised. The only thing is the hardware requirements for Vista are 3 times or more the requirements that XP had. So of course upgrading an XP machine to Vista is going to run it slower. Vista on a newer machine made in 2007/2008 should run a lot better than Vista on a 2004/2005/2006 machine.
If all else fails, I hope that ReactOS is developed into a stable build in 2008/2009 some time. People need to keep an eye on that open sourced OS. Once it goes into beta testing, it is in alpha right now, but 0.4 or 0.5 will enter Beta testing and be good enough to use as an alternative to Windows.
Keep in mind that Windows 2008 Server is based on Windows 2003 Server, which was based on Windows XP. Windows Vista was not based on Windows XP, but was a rewrite attempt. Vista and Longhorn are actually too different projects, Vista was a rewrite of Windows, while Longhorn was based on Windows XP. At least that is what I heard.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
What the hell are you talking about? Trollish troll is trollish eh?
Anyway, I'll bite. Windows Server 2008, like any decent server should have, is based on user permissions and if your user can't perform a given task, you can escalate to admin rights (OMG JUST LIEK SU!!) and do your thing. And obviously there won't be the same issues as on Vista because it won't be used as a desktop. At least it shouldn't be.
And the fact it's not a desktop means that the HD videos thing doesn't even matter.
If that was a good idea. Microsoft spent so much time replacing things that worked with XP, for example Networking, that on Vista they were not mature at launch. I'm sure the new kernel is actually a nice piece of work, but IMHO they should wait until Windows Server 2008 SP1 then replace the kernel on Vista with one that is leaner and proven to be stable.
You know it's not that we don't like new features and upgrades, it's just that by 2007-2008 we expected Microsoft to be better at designing OSs. Should they get an automatic pass with every OS release just because "hey, you know they will get it right by SP2". I say phooey to that. Demand more.
If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
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"they" didn't do testing on a gbit network card.
And, this means that *I* am supposed to? The reason I spend money on an OS is to assure that it has been tested; if I do the testing there are plenty of no-cost alternatives.
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Network and sound drivers now userland.
Is this good? Back to the gbit network, that would be 100mbytes/second of data. Passed through kernel (i/o priviledged) layers back to "userland" (non i/o priviledged), back to kernel (process isolation) and to another process. What this means: A block of data (of, say, 50K) needs 4 process/privilege transitions. 2000 blocks per second to saturate the link -- that is 8000 context switches per second.
But then, processors *are* cheap these days.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
They're old, not stupid. Besides, supporting Linux isn't the issue. Just getting them to the point where supporting it is the only issue is the issue. My dad runs so much Windows-only crap that it isn't even funny. He's uses the computer for much more than web browsing and email.
OS X would be my first choice for them.
-matthew
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
The only cycles used by any DRM code is when you try to play back DRMed content. What are you doing playing video and audio on a server? Vista is to Win2k8 as Win2k Pro was to Win2k Server products, or Xp was to Win2k3. Win2k8 is not a desktop operating system.
Microsoft Windows Vista SP1:
Codenamed: XP
My dad is very conservative. I went to the store to help him buy a new laptop and he didn't follow my suggestion of buying a Mac. I almost convinced him of letting me install Linux but I needed some time and he was in a a hurry to take the laptop home, to the country.
Anyway, he hated Vista so much that he asked me to set it to the Windows 2000 look and feel. Even so, he has a fit every time one of those stupid popups comes up with some badly translated bullshit that he can't understand. I can't wait to have him here again so I can install Linux on the fucking thing.
I love my ThinkPad X61 tablet :)
It arrived from the factory with Vista Business, but I became so fed up with issues connecting to wifi that I wiped it and installed XP Pro the same day. After a few weeks of struggling to use my new much-anticipated tablet functionality, and then using a friend's tablet that still had Vista Business, I decided to give Vista another shot. I can't believe I battled XP for so long--maybe the XP drivers are just shoddy for my model, but the tablet was practically unusable (everything else was acceptable, but I could have saved a few hundred dollars, a few ounces of mass, and gotten a more reliable screen hinge if I didn't want the tablet).
Vista has far superior handwriting recognition, and now my multitouch actually works as it should so I can use a fingertip instead of a stylus. After reverting to the Win2k theme, my battery life is about the same as under XP. Hopefully SP1 will improve this even more. I still dual-boot XP to run my VJ software, and I run Xubuntu on my own time, but Vista is my best choice for academics and business. Anyone with a tablet should give it a shot. When decent linux drivers are available then I'll rid my tablet of the MS funk.
System specs:
1.6GHz Core 2 Duo (L7500)
100MB 7200RPM HDD
2GB DDR2 RAM
Vista Enterprise / XP Pro / Xubuntu
"Don't hate the media, become the media." -Jello Biafra
Maybe they didn't tell anyone because they were afraid that people would start to kernel panic about it.
I'll be hiding now.
today is spelling optional day.
The thing that intrigues me is how they are going to fix the speed/memory issues without ripping DRM out. I have a hard time seeng other than smaller improvements in isolated areas as to Vistas performance less they rip/replace large parts of it. A new thorough benchmark comparing XP SP2 vs Vista SP1 would be very interesting. Does it still demand 2 GB to run smoothly under moderate load? Had one for testing on my desk a while ago (im a sysadmin) and frankly it was a real dog.
Dont get me started at audio issues in most games and audio applications, EAX? forgedaboutit!
HTTP/1.1 400
What you consider to be easy depends somewhat on your learning style, but even more so on whether you learned the concepts or simply memorized some steps to do the task at hand. People who consider it difficult to switch between operating systems are people who have not learned how to use *computers*. They are people who know how to get around the OS they're used to by rote memorization.
No, I'm not saying your mom is dumb because she couldn't figure out Macs. But rather you can't rightly say Macs are confusing based on the experiences of one person who only knows Windows -- and is probably making a lot of assumptions about how the Mac will work based on that history of using Windows.
What's purple and commutes? An Abelian grape.