UK ISPs To Start Tracking Your Surfing To Serve You Ads

TechDirt has an interesting article about a UK-based company that is trying to work with ISPs to make use of user surfing data to serve targeted ads. "Late last year, we heard about a company that was trying to work with ISPs to make use of that data themselves to insert their own ads based on your surfing history -- and now we've got the first report of some big ISPs moving into this realm. Over in the UK three big ISPs, BT, Carphone Warehouse and Virgin Media have announced plans to use your clickstream data to insert relevant ads as you surf through a new startup called Phorm."

Comments

hmm

[RMH101]

So it's bad when ISPs do this, but OK when Google does it?

Re:hmm

[FireballX301]

Presumably there's an alternative to Google search. Not so for some regional ISPs, where it's either them or dial-up.

Re:hmm

[moderatorrater]

It's the difference between a company advertising to you when you call them (or trying to upsell, etc) and the phone company listening into your calls and breaking in when they have something to sell you. You're dealing with the company on the other side (google, in this case) as an equal. Your ISP holds a lot of power over you, and abusing it's wrong.

Re:hmm

[internewt]

DSL competition is a fucking joke in the UK. Almost all the DSL services you can buy are still over BT's hardware, and BT charge other ISPs by the byte transferred: this means that unless you use an ISP that has their own kit in exchanges you will be playing by BTs rules. And even those ISPs that do have their own kit in exchanges barely undercut BT because charging/byte is very profitable.

I should think there are a few towns in the UK that maybe do have some real competition and inturn good fast 'net access, but for most people the choice is BT, someone else over BT (like me on Zen), or an unbundled ISP..... like fucking Murdoch's Sky!

Re:hmm

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

ISPs should be forbidden from altering the data stream unless they own the content that's being transferred.

IMHO, ISPs should be forbidden from even snooping on your data stream. They've no more business monitoring your on-line activities than the Royal Mail has opening all your letters.

The data protection implications of this development are alarming, and frankly I don't care what some big accounting firm says about them. The day my ISP (which is not one of the three mentioned) says it will adopt a similar policy will be the day that I start the process of moving elsewhere, and I'd probably send a letter to the Information Commissioner expressing my concern as well.

But hey, if the ISPs are spying on where I go and what I do (actually, they're legally required to record it anyway these days — another draconian privacy invasion, this time mandated by our terrorist-fearing government) and acting on the data they have, presumably that absolves them of any immunity they might otherwise have had when they supply files to copyright infringers, kiddie porn to sickos, and the like. May the money-grabbing lawsuits and company-killing PR sink them quickly.

Re:hmm

[delinear]

More to the point it comes down to money. I "pay" Google for its service by viewing their ads. I pay for my ISP with money. I don't expect to have to pay them twice.

ISPUK apparently

[Anonymous Coward]

does this not break privacy laws? for that matter, why can an ISP snoop on what you're doign when the government can not?

So who's paying the extra bsandwidth used?

[trolltalk.com]

After all, if your ISP is serving you ads you don't want, they shouldn't be charging you the bandwidth used ...

Classy, very classy

[FireballX301]

All you have to do is also lower prices, and you'll see how many 'citizens' are willing to sell their privacy.

And it's interesting how three big ISPs banded together like this. It's almost like they're trying to shut out alternatives...

Reason Number

[Smordnys s'regrepsA]

Just reason #86 to switch to Firefox with Adblock Plus (lets 86 those adds)!

Re:Reason Number

[STrinity]

Unless the ISP stores the ads in random directories with random names, it'll be possible to construct an Adblock filter for them. The bigger concern is that even if I block the ads, the ISP is still aggregating information about my surfing habits and distributing it to third parties.

Power corrupts

[Statecraftsman]

Please oh please, can we start working on an open source(wimax) router with two bands(backbone and local) so we can build our own huge mesh network and say buh-bye to ISPs forever? We don't need your email address, we don't need your antivirus software, we do not need your bills, and finally we don't need you messing with our connections. That is all.

Re:Power corrupts

[FooAtWFU]

Please oh please, can we start working on an open source(wimax) router with two bands(backbone and local) Hooold up there, buddy. Where exactly are you going to get the money to buy the spectrum you need for your precious WiMAX to work?

Re:Power corrupts

[Dunbal]

This would work great inside urban sprawl, but you'll still need the telcos for rural and inter-continental stuff and that's where they will bite you in the ass. Unless of course you make enough money to lay your own trans-ocean cables.

Re:Power corrupts

[wall0159]

Uhh... It's our spectrum - all we need to do is not sell it...

(privitisation is not always automatically a good thing)

Mmm bad summary?

[saikou]

When people say "Insert relevant ads" it usually means ISP hacked the page you got from remote server and inserted and ad that wasn't there, or replaced one on the page with something else. Bad thing. Here, they organize new ad platform. Any site that uses it will be showing something Phorm servs up, and it, in turn, will try to figure out what to show by using ALL of your surfing history, no matter what sites you visit. So, if you go to golf sites A, B, C (that serve ads via yahoo, for example), and then to Phorm-using site M that has articles on electronics, site M will show you golf ads, due to your click-stream.

Of course advertisers will be disappointed to find out, that many people actually use one connection for a household. So, while from the point of view of ISP user clicked Cooking A, Cooking B, Valentine's day, Heavy metal band, Banking, Myspace ... in reality it's 2-3-4 individual users. And showing wife an ad for a new heavy album won't make CTR go through the roof. And teenager might actually barf at the sight of the cooking ads.

p.s. ISPs sell the data anyways, not usre how this opt-out would work...

it's actually very very illegal

[QX-Mat]

Privacy, Art 8 and 10 aside, its actually very very illegal contractually. No doubt they will find a way of avoiding the contractual obligations through a shrink wrap, but there are issues here with the laws of confidence, the duty of care bestowed on the ISP etc. Not to mention cartel practice.

No no no no. This is BAD captialism. Stop. Think. Or I will sue.

I don't get it

[Dunbal]

So how come it's not okay for the phone company to barge into a voice communication in the middle of a conversation I am having with someone in order to tell me of the sale at my local shopping mall and the low low prices on mattresses, but when it's DATA they feel they have the right to alter the communication between myself and the party I am communicating with?

Plus are the websites going to be compensated for their loss? Because presumably if the visitor is reading a 3rd party ad instead of the ads on the website, the value of the ad space on said website is diminished.

Disgusting

[scoot80]

These people should be castrated. ISPs should not be inserting ads in your webpages - we pay them for a service, one that has not been altered in any way. If we choose to go to a site with ads, or one without, it is up to us, but your own ISP inserting ads is taking it way too far.

Wait a minute...

[ricebowl]

UK ISPs To Start Tracking Your Surfing To Serve You Ads...

I could've sworn we had a story recently in which ISPs were resistant to monitoring users; what happened..?

Oh! That's right; they were resisting legislative impetus to monitor traffic, but now they have a financial impetus. Tch; if only the government had thought through the remuneration aspect...

ISP's who do this

[MeNeXT]

May open the door to being sued. When they choose what can come through then they will be under obligation to stop thing like child pron, XXX to minors, BiTorrent downloads...

What gives them the right to choose?

...until now

[phorm]

Methinks that if this becomes commonplace, then perhaps that little header bit might become a whole lot more popular.

p.s. looks like those UK bastards stole my nick too...

Adblock now easy

[flyingfsck]

Cool, this can only make Adblocking easier since all ads will appear to come from the same place.

Hmmm...

[VoltageX]

Say I pay for a membership to a website specifically to remove ads, and then this ISP goes and inserts more ads, rendering my membership useless, what then?