Slashdot Mirror
Scientology Given Direct Access To eBay Database
An anonymous reader writes "The Church of Scientology can delete auctions from eBay with no supervision under the VeRO program, and has used this to delete all resale of the e-meters Scientologists use. This is to stop members from buying used units from ex-members instead of buying from the official (and very expensive) source. Given Scientology's record of fraud and abuse, should eBay give them this level of trust? Will this set a precedent for other companies that want to stop the aftermarket resale of their products?"
Just go to Radio Shack and buy an ohmmeter. They're a lot cheaper.
"Shawn Lonsdale, whose one-man crusade against Scientology made him a public enemy of the church, was found dead at his home over the weekend in an apparent suicide. He was 39."
http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/lonsdale1.html
That's pretty sad.
I'm an eBay PowerSeller, and I can tell you that it's rampant. eBay's "VeRO" program is regularly abused by liars who have no right to interfere in aftermarket sales of their products, gambling on the fact that you won't file in federal court to contest their "good faith" declarations.
If that's "+5 Insightful" around here these day, then I want a piece of the action: 1 + 1 = 2. This profound result is equally surprising.
I especially love their section on how things won't be mistakenly removed: How eBay helps to ensure that listings aren't mistakenly removed. A rights owner reporting through VeRO must be registered through VeRO before reporting items to us. Rights owners sign legally binding documents when reporting items to eBay. Ooooh! Legal binding documents, I feel so safe.
A blog about stuff.
More Twoson than Cupertino
It's pretty obvious from the early comments that not many people RTFA. (Comments like, "I wonder who at eBay is high up the kook-chain in Scientology?" and all that.) This is an established EBay program called VERO that Scientology has joined, like a bunch of other manufacturers, and (big surprise) happens to be abusing.
We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
Well, if you RTFA, it has nothing to do with insider knowledge. Instead:
"The mechanism that permits the Church of Scientology (and others) such broad access and discretion is called the Verified Rights Owner ("VeRO") Program. Membership in VeRO is obtained simply by submitting a form to eBay explaining that you are an Intellectual Property rights holder. ... It should come as little surprise that VeRO members routinely overreach, as the cost of challenging a listing removal is almost always prohibitive. ... The VeRO Program makes a great deal of sense for some types of listings -- counterfeit Rolexes and Gucci handbags appear on eBay with such frequent regularity that those companies would be hard pressed to handle these trademark violations any other way."
eBay has more info about their VeRO program.
Basically, the original summary is misleading: lots of companies (e.g. copyright/trademark holders) have access to directly delete auctions on eBay. The Slyentologists are only one of many (but they're fun to pick on!).
$nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
It's probably cheaper for Ebay to simply acquiesce to the CoS demands than to meet them in court. Even if they win, they may never see their legal fees recovered. There is less risk involved in giving in, too: they loose almost nothing if they yank the items, but could potentially lose a fortune if they don't.
The Scientologists are just that scary.
weirdest thing I ever saw: scientology advertising on slashdot.
The summary and title are a bit misleading. The CoS is removing listings using the VeRO program, not getting "direct DB access" as is claimed. Still blatant abuse of the program, so their actions are definitely NOT defensible.
Interestingly people who are targeted by this can file a DMCA counter claim and bring the issue into the court system. I hope this guy does that - maybe some of the CoS's practices can finally see the light of day.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
Actually GM are included in the program.
http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=gmlicensing
liqbase
You must not be very familiar with the space opera that is Scientology. You see it's all about getting the thetans out. I believe they were an ancient race, that Xenu the galactic prince brought to earth 75 million years ago, set near some volcanoes near Hawaii. Then dropped H bombs in said volcanoes, and somehow their spirits latched on to us homo sapiens, and block our natural super powers, caused all our problems... Etc etc etc. I don't think god shows up in the story, but I could be wrong...
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
And you must not be very familiar with the space opera that is Star Trek, from which the GP was quoting quite humorously.
Jesus Liked Little Boys?
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask where they're goin' and hook up with 'em later.
You shouldn't talk of things about which you are ignorant.
There almost certainly was a historical Buddha. There is far more evidence for this, from independent sources, than for (e.g.) Socrates.
And FYI, the Buddha never said he was anything but a normal man. In fact, he stated again and again that he was just that -- not some kind of a God or superbeing.
eBay has long since decided to deputize any company that feels like signing papers with complete and unfettered access to eBay. Anyone that signs a "legally binding document" can then gain power to delete any auction from eBay for whatever reason they feel like. If it's because of counterfeit or provably stolen product, that's fine, but eBay's history of repudiating first sale has really gotten tiring.
Try reselling Weight Watchers program materials. They get deleted on a regular basis because Weight Watchers doesn't like it if you resell them. There's no legal basis for this, and if you push the issue with eBay, the response you get is "Well, they said they don't want you selling them, so too bad." They tell you to "take it up with Weight Watchers" who says "We say you can't sell them, and that's that."
VeRO is a bullshit program that lets eBay wash their hands of legitimate issues on the site and that gives companies ridiculously too much power. Do you think that if I set up a stand at a flea market reselling legally acquired materials, that the flea market owners would stand for the publisher of those materials walking around with a rubber hose and yanking the items away if I tried to sell them?
This isn't news, hopefully this just pushes VeRO into the public eye and convinces eBay to get rid of it, or to force "rights owners" (I wasn't aware that a "right to prevent resale" existed) to actually file individual complaints based on some sort of legal theory to delist an item, not just "We don't want these resold." Scn is abusing it like they abuse everything else, but this system seems to be made specifically to facilitate abuse.
Fraud and abuse? Well, no Scientology discussion can be complete without a link to Bare Faced Messiah, the unauthorised biography of L. Ron Hubbard. It is very interesting stuff. The man lived recently enough that there are plenty of verifiable historical facts about him, and he was certainly an extraordinary guy.
Any Scientologists reading this topic have no doubt already heard about Bare Faced Messiah and the lies contained within it, invented (of course) by the Church's enemies in order to discredit Hubbard and his ideas. To you I say: what if your perception of reality is wrong? What if you have been lied to, that a sort of Matrix has been built around you by your friends and colleagues at the Church? Wouldn't you at least like to see what other people's reality looks like? No need to take any pills, the truth might be a click away...
>north
You're an immobile computer, remember?
eBay's counternotification policy for VeRO takedowns applies only to claims of copyright infringement. (Read the page you linked to.) Scientology is using bogus trademark infringement claims to take down E-meter listings. Therefore, counternotification is not available.
Your brain is not a computer.
No, because case precedent says there are certain rights you can't legally sign away. Slavery and your life are included in that. They are deemed rights which you can't legally waive. Ever. (*)
No, because the contract is prima facie invalid -- meaning, it wasn't ever a valid contract, so trying to enforce the terms of said contract is meaningless.
Cheers
(*) There could be some place where you could, but that place shares no legal history with us.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
What is your problem? The Fishman Affidavit is a court document, that's not a good enough cite for you that L. Ron Hubbard actually said that Jesus likes little boys? Or did you not bother to read (or not comprehend) the website and assumed the poster was bashing your favorite fairy tale?
Let me be perfectly clear then: Scientology makes the claim, in their official religious literature, that Jesus was a homosexual pedophile. That is backed up by court records.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Correct.
And things like rising from an untimely death after being nailed to a cross (or tree) three days after dying (and then celebrating), having a last supper, being born of a virgin, being the son of a god, etc... were all prevalent beliefs of pagan mythology at the time of and well before Jesus. A guy who had these "myths" thrown upon his name decades after he was dead in order to start a religion.
People forget that the history of most religions are far more "earth-bound" than they like to realize...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin