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Powerful Optical Telescope Captures First Binocular Images

The Large Binocular Telescope consists of two 8.4-meter mirrors which function in tandem to provide resolution greater than that of the Hubble Telescope. The LBT's first "binocular" images were captured recently, marking the end to a long and laborious construction process. We previously discussed the LBT when images were captured from the first mirror to be installed. Quoting: "The LBT ... will combine light to produce the image sharpness equivalent to a single 22.8-meter (75-foot) telescope. 'To have a fully functioning binocular telescope is not only a time for celebration here at LBT, but also for the entire astronomy community,' UA Steward Observatory Director, Regents' Professor and LBT Corp. President Peter A. Strittmatter said. 'The images that this telescope will produce will be like none seen before. The power and clarity of this machine is in a class of its own. It will provide unmatched ability to peer into history, seeing the birth of the universe.'"

26 of 83 comments (clear)

  1. Been done by akuykenda · · Score: 4, Funny

    It will provide unmatched ability to peer into history, seeing the birth of the universe.

    Something like that already exists.
    1. Re:Been done by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can't use a TARDIS to witness the birth of the universe any more than you can use an airplane to see what's north of the North Pole.

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  2. Just like the movies by Fear+the+Clam · · Score: 3, Funny

    Everything will seen through an infinity-symbol-shaped viewing area.

  3. This might be a stupid question... by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If two telescopes are good, wouldn't three be even better?
    It's not like two is some arbitrary limit... right?

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    1. Re:This might be a stupid question... by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Funny
      If two telescopes are good, wouldn't three be even better?

      Certainly would, and your contribution will be deductible.

      rj

    2. Re:This might be a stupid question... by the_other_chewey · · Score: 2, Informative

      If two telescopes are good, wouldn't three be even better?
      It's not like two is some arbitrary limit... right?

      Right. VLT has four.

    3. Re:This might be a stupid question... by Elrond,+Duke+of+URL · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, there's no physical limit to how many you can have. But, of course, cost is a factor. The construction of the LBT was very expensive. Each of the 7.5m mirrors alone cost a fortune to construct.

      On another mountain outside of Tucson (Mt. Hopkins) is the MMTO (Multiple Mirror Telescope Observatory). As the name suggests, this was a large telescope made from six smaller mirror segments. It has since been converted into a telescope with a single 6.5m mirror. There's a group at the University of Arizona which does adaptive optics experiments with it (MMTAO).

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    4. Re:This might be a stupid question... by hey! · · Score: 2, Interesting

      IANAA, but I think the advantage of the binocular telesecope is resolving power, not light gathering power.

      With conventional telescopes, a bigger telescope doesn't just "see" dim objects; it sees objects that are closer to each other (that is they have a small angular separation in the sky) than smaller telescope. So generally, bigger is better. The problem is that the difficulty of making precise optical components goes up very rapidly in size. The 200 inch Pyrex blank used to make the Hale telescope at Mt. Palomar weighed 40,000 pounds, and took a year to cool after it was cast. Naturally, it had to be figured to optical perfection, a process that took many years, and involved removing 10,000 lb of glass.

      The idea here, I think, is to get the resolving power of a very large disk without the engineering complexities and cost. You do that but taking two largish but not heroically large mirrors, placing them 75' apart; then you carefully combine the light from each mirror to get the resolving power of a 75' mirror. This last process is tricky, but nothing compared to casting a 75' mirror, which would be over eight times the diameter and thus 64x the weight. It would take decades to create the blank, much less grid it.

      I suppose you could add more mirrors than two, and there might be some advantages, but the chief advantage of the binocular arrangement is to get more resolving power for less (net) engineering cost. Since doing this kind of thing on this kind of scale is novel, and it's always a kind of bet when you do something new. Probably the best bet was to make two mirrors as large as you can afford then connect them in the simplest possible way that does the job, which rules out more mirrors.

      For years, the U of Arizona had a telescope that combined the light from six 1.5m mirrors to make the equivalent of a single 4.5m telescope, so I suppose it's possible to use even more mirrors than two. The MMT arrangement was upgraded a few years ago to a single 6.5m primary mirror constructed from a hollow honeycomb matrix rather than a single massive Pyrex blank, and they recently added an adaptive optics secondary to improve the practical resolution of the telescope, so there's still some room to improve "conventional" ground based telescopes.

      It's easy to imagine that in this century we'll see astronomical instruments an order of magnitude better than any currently in existence.

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  4. Doesn't seem that large. by wozzinator · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I go to school there and surprisingly enough the building that holds it is relatively small in comparison to other telescopes. I dono how they do it!

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    1. Re:Doesn't seem that large. by megaditto · · Score: 2, Informative

      A single 840 cm mirror is like 9 yards across. Big, but not huge.

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    2. Re:Doesn't seem that large. by Elrond,+Duke+of+URL · · Score: 3, Informative

      The telescope is a ways outside of town on top of Mount Graham. I've not see it personally, but I've seen the building for the MMT (a much smaller telescope) on Mt. Hopkins and it is quite impressive.

      The large building behind the football stadium on campus is the mirror lab where they cast and finish the individual mirrors. Even that building isn't so small.

      Perhaps you are thinking of the small white domed building (Old Steward Observatory) that sits behind the current Steward Observatory? That's mostly graduate student offices now. There's a telescope in there, but it's very old and quite small.

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  5. BLT by kck · · Score: 5, Funny

    I would have named it the Binocular Large Telescope.

    1. Re:BLT by NixieBunny · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, that would have been nicer. In a hallway in the Steward Observatory office building, there was once a poster illustrating the proposed Super Huge Interferometric Telescope I think the poster was done by bored grad students.

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    2. Re:BLT by CraigParticle · · Score: 2, Funny
      Yes, that would have been nicer. In a hallway in the Steward Observatory office building, there was once a poster illustrating the proposed Super Huge Interferometric Telescope I think the poster was done by bored grad students.

      We were NOT bored! Saved for posterity:
      http://loke.as.arizona.edu/~ckulesa/superhuge/poster-halfsize.gif
      and there was a BLT too:
      http://daffy.as.arizona.edu/gradplays/play2k/blt.jpg

      Hmmm. Actually... I guess we were bored...
  6. Question by PPH · · Score: 2, Funny

    If you look through the other end, do things look really, REALLY small?

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    1. Re:Question by BigDaddyOttawa · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they look really, REALLY far away.

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  7. That's quite right - And the future of astronomy. by Esteanil · · Score: 4, Informative

    In 2015 the European Space Agency is planning to launch Darwin. 4 spacecraft. 3 light collectors (based on the Herschel design) and one hub where the light is collected. If it works out (the telescopes and the hub must stay in formation with millimetre precision), we'll have a space telescope with an effective mirror size of several hundred meters.

    The objective is the study of extrasolar planets, and the telescope will record in IR for purposes of recording signs of life.
    Multiple mirror telescopes in space are probably the only way we will get to the point where we'll have close up pictures of extrasolar planets the size of earth.
    And we're getting there.

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  8. Re:Obviation of space borne telescopes? by arse+maker · · Score: 5, Informative

    Huge portions of the electromagnetic spectrum are absorbed by our atmosphere, for instance infra-red. These spectra are totally unobservable from earth and space based telescopes will always be needed. Other technical issues include how long you can sit observing a target, the earth is constantly rotating and while earth based telescopes can track an object it can only do it for a small portion of the day. A space based telescope can (depending on its location) observe a target uninterrupted for days, weeks, months or as long as needed. Now binocular telescopes with a few huge telescopes on earth and a few huge ones on the moon... or even Mars. Now that id like to see... but not so much fund :)

  9. Re:life ain't fair by siddesu · · Score: 3, Informative

    make one yourself. some people do ;)

  10. Re:That's quite right - And the future of astronom by a_claudiu · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's almost the same with microprocessors. Are the multi core better than a very quick single core (e.g. 2x2Ghz vs 4 Ghz)?

    In the case of telescopes how big can you make a mirror without imperfections and tolerant to temperature changes? And then are coming the logistic problems.

    For multiple telescopes you can enhance the image, compensate for defects in individual mirrors or atmospheric distortions but in absolute terms you'll obtain a better image from a single telescope with the equivalent mirror surface. There are other problems as well but these are the first coming in mind.

  11. Is that a supernova? by dsvilko2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you compare this NGC2770 image with the one taken by SDSS (Google Earth), one star is clearly missing on the SDSS image (the brightest one). That would certainly explain the choice of the target but there is no mention on the linked article. Anyway, I expected a larger difference in resolution between the image taken by a 2.5m wide-angle telescope (SDSS) and a 2x8.4m binocular telescope.

  12. Re:That's quite right - And the future of astronom by Trapezium+Artist · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not true, I'm afraid: Darwin was not picked by ESA as one of the missions to be studied for the so-called L (large) slot for launch in 2017-2018 during the recent Cosmic Vision selection exercise. Large missions in the running for that slot are XEUS (large X-ray telescope), LISA (gravitational wave observatory), and TANDEM/LAPLACE (missions to the outer planets, Titan and Jupiter, respectively, only one of which would happen). All of these would be collaborations with other space agencies.

    It was felt that the precision formation-flying and interferometric beam combination techniques needed to make Darwin work were not mature enough for implementation yet. The science it's aiming at is of very great importance and such a project will undoubtedly return for consideration in future rounds of Cosmic Vision, but I'd say there's little chance of something like Darwin flying prior to 2022-2025.

    In passing, you're right that Darwin would have the angular resolution of telescope several hundred metres in diameter, but it wouldn't have the collecting area of such a telescope. For direct detection of terrestrial-mass exoplanets close to their bright parent stars, that's fine; for other science such as studying galaxies forming just after the Big Bang, a larger collecting area would also be required. Comparison of the parts of parameter space covered by projects as disparate as Darwin, LBT, JWST, and future ELTs (ground-based extremely large telescopes, diameters and collecting areas of 30-40m diameter, under development for 2015-2020) is non-trivial.

  13. What are the advantages of a binocular telescope? by TropicalCoder · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This was my question when I read the FA. Like another respondent, I thought that with the stars so far away there wouldn't even be any parallax. I decided to ask my friend Google what are the advantages of a binocular telescope and found this...

    "So what does it feel like to actually use a large aperture binocular telescope? David gives us his account; Mind blowing is probably the phrase that springs to mind..."

    "The incredible sense of total immersion in the reality of the experience is what binoculars are all about. It's astronomy at another level. Seeing the large globular cluster Omega Centauri for the first time almost made me fall backwards off the step. The depth and resolving power on this object is spellbinding. Moving just outside the field of view of this object and panning slowly towards it, you're firstly presented with a pitch black sky with a scattering of random stars. As you move onto the object your eyes and senses are completely overwhelmed. You can look deeper and deeper inside this cluster and there is always more to see. It feels as though I've arrived on the doorstep to this cluster in my spaceship."

    "A definite three-dimensional feeling is present, the objects appear to float almost in front of you, even though this is obviously not possible due to the enormous distance of these objects. One explanation is an effect called chromatic stereopsis, which due to chromatic aberrations in your eyes makes the red and blue stars focus at slightly different distances. Simple things, like double stars that have never captured my imagination are suddenly transformed into objects worth gazing at. Smaller and much fainter globular clusters all benefited from the relaxing view using two eyes. The fainter globular clusters if viewed with only one eye, needed averted version to make them visible, however with both eyes open, they were blatantly obvious."

    This amateur astronomer with a binocular 16" telescope concludes after 6 months of constant use: "So far I have not found any category of object to observe that does not benefit greatly from the advantages of a true binocular telescope."

  14. Re:Obviation of space borne telescopes? by budgenator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Even when the skies are clear, it's getting pretty hard to find skies that are Dark; it doesn't take much light pollution to wipe out a 3 day exposure to see some really faint object. You have to find a location that typically has clear skies, is high enough to get you above most of the atmospheric turbulence, has dark skies and isn't likely to have a housing subdivision built next door two years after you put a multi-billion dollars instrument into service.

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  15. Re:Holographic Telescope? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Informative

    Stereographic imagery is certainly possible. A few hundred thousand miles (opposite points on a geosynchronous orbit) is enough parallax. Even a few centimeters would be enough parallax if the optics were good enough, which nanoscale optics will evenually offer. Our radio (high frequency light) instruments already capture fairly precise and accurate light from 13.72B light years away (and years ago). That is just a matter of technology, not basic science. It can be done.

    Since you can't figure out stereoscopic telescopics I'm not sure you're ready to tackle holographic telescopics.

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  16. Re:What are the advantages of a binocular telescop by dsvilko2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    As an amateur astronomer I can say that what you wrote is absolutely true. It's something very different and wonderful to be able to observe with both your eyes even if the image they are getting is completely the same. Still, it has nothing to do with why people build large binocular observatories such as this. One reason is that it is probably cheaper to build two 8.4m mirrors that won't distort under their weight then one large mirror of the same surface area. The other is the resolution gain that is possible with the binocular setup through interferometry.