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German Police Raid 51 CeBIT Stands Over Patent Claims
LeCaddie writes "Last week German investigators raided 51 exhibitor stands at CeBIT, the German information technology fair in Hanover, looking for goods suspected of infringing patents. Some 183 police, customs officers, and prosecutors raided the fair on Wednesday and carried off 68 boxes of electronic goods and documents including cellphones, navigation devices, digital picture frames, and flat-screen monitors. Of the 51 companies raided, 24 were Chinese. Most of the patents concerned were related to devices with MP3, MP4, and DVB standard functions for digital audio and video, blank CDs, and DVD copiers, police said." In the US there are no criminal penalties associated with patents, and such a raid could not be conducted, especially in the absence of a court ruling of infringement.
Guess that's the last time there'll be another IT fair in Germany.
Obama likes poor people so much, he wants to make more of them.
Deleted
I'm sure our lobbyists and politicians will get right to work on fixing that.
So, is this from the police dept.?
I thought software patents were illegal in Europe.
It is not about software patents. It is about embedded devices (hence not "computers") with a specific functionality profile. At least German law enforcement has not yet grasped that a phone can actually have software downloaded into it and so not all functionality is "hardcoded". Also a device can be in violation of "Musterschutz" (something like the "look" part from "look and feel"), by closly following the design of an other device.
Side note: MP3 as a method or as an encoder/decoder is not protected, but the parameter set used is (as far as I understand this). As to the CDs, these were likely counterfit, i.e. claiming a different manufacturer. That is trademark infringement. DVD copier could be classified as "circumvention device" for copy protection shemes, which are illegal in Germany. (I know, I know, lawmakers with no grasp of technology...)
My guess is that this raid will actually result in no or very little prosecution. But the displays have been removed, so the patent holders are satisfied. Unfortunately it will be very difficult to get any compensation for the damage done, even if equipment was seized in error.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
And here in the US we're on our way to needing passports to travel from state to state :-)
I kid, but only a little.
the german govenment installed gestapo-2.0
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
The Fraunhofer Institute, who invented the MP3 and makes similar formats, is likely a source of information about the violators of at least the codec IP infringement. MP3 and many other formats aren't in the public domain in the GPL sense. They're likely behind part of this.
---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
..a police station just got new kit on the cheap.
Europe isn't a country...
Indeed, its more a sort of political soufflé
Both MS (http://www.cebit.de/suche/popup/kurzliste.html?vst_jahr=2008&vst_nummer=007&sprache=1&session=1&halle=004) and Sun (http://www.cebit.de/suche/popup/kurzliste.html?vst_jahr=2008&vst_nummer=007&sprache=1&session=1&halle=002) did attend this year's show.
The booths in question were from firms based in Poland, Hungary, and the former Czechoslovakia. It was just force of habit.
The United States is a collection of independent "states" with their own independent constitutions, law making bodies, courts, etc... they are then united with other "states" under a unifying constitution which provides for its own organized law-making body, courts, etc...
Now... compare this to EU "countries" which have their own independent constitutions, law making bodies, courts etc... and then are united with other "countries" under a unifying constitution which provides for its own organized law-making body, courts, etc...
Playing my own devil's advocate... Even individuals states in the USA can have their own armies, called "State Defense Forces". Although only half (25) of the states have such an army, they do exist, and all state legislatures have authorized the creation and maintenance of such forces. A final argument might be that unlike EU countries, individual states in the USA do not partake in foreign affairs and do not have foreign delegates. This might be true to an extent, but border-states, such as California and Texas, certainly must deal with some level of foreign affairs.
Hmm... yeah, the EU and the USA are really different. If the USA is a country, than the EU is a country. If Germany is a country, than Pennsylvania is too. I think this is a matter of pride and perception than it is about terminology, or even reality. Finally, a distinction should be drawn against the EU and "Europe", such as there is a distinction between the USA and "North America". One is a country, the other is a continent.
'course, you can probably also forget about things like warranties or safety testing.
This was mostly about cheap-ass asian style 'product piracy'. iPhone lookalikes with clear intent to be confused with the iPhone (right down to the packaging), 100% iPod shuffle ripp-offs and implementation of commercial MP3 decoders from companies who weren't paying the licencing fees to the Frauenhofer Institut.
The chinese ripping off IP is a big issue in Germany. They order a machine, dismantle it and copy it exactly, down to the last bolt and then sell cheap low-quality knock-offs of it back to Europe.
My cousin (engineer at Airbus) tells me there even is an Airbus 320 that went to China some time ago. That was it's only flight and it never appeared again. He suspects it's lying around somewhere dismantled and analysed.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
The situation is complex. Traditional definitions of country include issuing money and sovereignty (ie no other states have power over what happens in your territory); many EU countries do not have their own currency (and hence monetary politics) and although sovereign countries can 'give away' part of their sovereignty in treaties while still remaining a sovereign country you can make a convincing case that current European decision making *and* judiciary is going beyond that.
:-)
On the other hand: there is no european army or police force; the Iraq war showed convincingly that there is no European foreign policy; european 'law' only becomes law by national legislatures passing national laws that implement European directives; there is *no* european constitution since some members decided not to ratify it (but there are tons of treaties that could be interpreted as forming the constitution); there is no sensible European Parliament; the european equivalent of the 'bill of rights' is the European Convention on Human Rights which is the Council of Europe rather than the EU, which includes Russia and Switserland. Very importantly, EU citizens in the great majority consider themselves national citizens first, and europeans second (or third, after region/city), and the elections that count are national elections, which are generally about national issues.
"Country" is a useful abstraction that has high explanatory power, but it is ultimately a projection of a complicated continuum on a dichotomous variable. Entities like Pennsylvania, Scotland, Liechtenstein, the EU, Kosovo, Taiwan, Hongkong, etc. show that the discussion is a lot more complicated than that.
IMHO, the really interesting question is not whether the EU is a country or not, it is whether we want to delegate more power to
'Brussels' and how we can control such power. The colonies that became the USA went through the same process more than two hundred years ago, and they had an external threat to convince people that a confederation was not enough. Also, the US shows that even a constitution framed by very intelligent people who did their utmost to limit the power of the federal government to an enumerated set can gradually become a much more centralized state without changing its constitution, so without giving the member states and direct say in the matter. This makes me (as an EU citizen) wary of the EU becoming a confederacy or even federal state, as I would be afraid that it will gradually shift to a more centralized state.
Anyway...
Pointing to the Confederacy and saying that individual states are welcome to break away is like pointing to an apprehended criminal and saying that we are free to commit crime. If states in the US break away, the US government is willing to go to war to bring them back. Contrast this with the EU, where the right to secede is enshrined in the founding charter.
We all know what to do, but we don't know how to get re-elected once we have done it
You're ignorant (no offense) if you think the quality of Chinese rip-offs comes close to the real products. I've spent the last two years in Asia, in a country where such fake products are plentiful. I bought a "Sony" discman for part of my stay there. It wasn't so bad since I could just take it to some local, hole-in-the-wall electronics shack and they could fix whatever electronic components had failed while I waited (which occurred fairly regularly), but there is no way any product like that would be put-up with by most Americans, with or without access to a cheap electronic repair outlet. I won't argue with you whether or not real, brand-name electronics have been reduced in quality over the past years (I think they have), but in no way do they approach the shoddy quality (both interior and exterior) of the fake stuff, believe me.
This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
The patents claimed are the ones of Sisvel, a Philips proxytroll, who is suing every MP3 manufacturer for royalties.
They have a list of 3 or 4 software patents which belongs to the MPEG1-layer3 ISO standard, be it implemented in hardware of in software:
http://www.ipeg.com/_UPLOAD%20BLOG/Sisvel%20patents%20overview.pdf
The German police is using the criminal procedure to seize counterfeited goods, despite the fact that those patents could be challenged in court for validity.
If there are some MP3 manufacturers reading slashdot and interested to kick some of those patents for subject matter exclusion, you can contact me at zoobab@gmail.com.
Also, Philips might be the only company who is lobbying the European Union (Council and Parliament) for using criminal sanctions and freeze of bank accounts in civil proceedings for patent infringements.
No, actually you got it wrong. It was acknowledged by law enforcement officials that the raid was about patents. From http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/104657:
Auslöser für die Aktion waren den Angaben der Staatsanwaltschaft zufolge Strafanzeigen der Rechteinhaber. Bei der Razzia sei es vorwiegend um Patente für Datenkompressionsverfahren, DVB-Standards und DVDs gegangen, sagte Kriminaloberrat Oliver Stock, der die Aktion koordiniert hatte und sich über einen "erfolgreichen Abschluss" freute.
Bad translation (by me):
According to the public prosecutors office complaints by holders of rights were reason for the action. Law enforcement senior councillor Oliver Stock who coordinated the action and was glad about the "successfull completion" said target of the raid where mainly patents for data compression, DVB standards and DVDs.
There were some initial (wrong) reports that reason for the raid was counterfeiting (iPhone look-a-likes) but these reports were later corrected, see for example http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/104591 (in english).
Let's see:
Cheapo knockoff iPhone sits in your pants pocket, several inches away from your testicles.
Cheapo knockoff iPhone has embedded in it a cheapo knockoff Sony Lithium battery that is even more likely to overheat than the real one.
Cheapo knockoff iPhone has cheapo knockoff current limiters on the battery and cheapo knockoff components in the battery supervisor circuit.
Next step left as exercise for the student.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
And I would like to say 40 from Asia and and 11 from Europe.
The fact is, although I know the distinction is lost on some, that, while technically China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Macao are all "Chinese", they are not one culture. Heck even those from mainland China are not all one culture. I have had friends from each country and some identify more with their region than with "China" (that is especially true of those from Taiwan).
Personally I am not so troubled with your comment, which I think was made in jest. But being modded +5 informative? Why? Funny maybe, but informative, hardly.
Nice troll, and quite a hot topic in the region at the moment. Interesting how an off topic, political troll got modded +5 informative. Must be a lot of pro one china types with mod points today who read slashdot before they started work. Interesting times ahead I think.
Australian running a company that does C# / C++ / Java / SQL / Python / Mathematica
Let's see:
Expensive sony vaio sits on your pants (lap), several inches away from your testicles.
Expensive sony vaio has in it an expensive certified Sony rechargeable battery that is even more likely to overheat than an aftermarket one.
Expensive sony vaio has cheapo cooling heatsink and causes overheating issues including notebook shutdowns and has spawned many "freeze" sites to document problems.
Expensive sony vaio has customer service, but it is so bad it's better not to use them. Actually more expensive to use them than to just ignore the problem or replace device with another brand.
Next step left as exercise for the student.
I mean honestly, spending a few grand on a vaio i thought i was getting a quality product. Everyone said they were second to IBM (at the time) think pads. I had already learned my lessons through the years with all the junk they make (walk mans, cd mans, car cd mans, head units for cars, home stereos, tv's, radios etc etc) that has broken down on me. But i trusted everyones advice and ended up getting burned in the end.
So whats worse? buying a product you know is a copy, and it performing as expected? Or buying the original certified version and have it perform as a copy? At least you get your monies worth with a copy. But the thing is, you can buy decent copies that don't have "sonny" on them. A few companies make decent hardware for the same low price.
One last thing, people make this argument with harley davidsons. They but them for the name not the quality. Believe me, my Honda ACE performs better than any new harley davidson and has more miles on it than most harleys will have in their entire life time, and that's just not a coincidence. It's a completely different manufacturing mindset. People will swear harley until they die or run out of money (because they bought the harley boots, jacket, gloves, t-shirts etc). But they'll never get on a reliable japanese bike because "if you don't ride a harley, you don't ride a real bike."
My abilities are only limited by my imagination
According to one of Germany's reputable news sources Spiegel Online (in German) early reports suspected counterfeit claims by companies such as Apple, but it has since become clear that the Italian company Sisvel has filed suit over MP3 patent infringements and thereby caused the raid of stands offering mp3/4 players et al.
There have since been further confiscations of GPS/navigation systems too.
And when you gaze long enough into the code, the code will also gaze into you.