Slashdot Mirror


Book Publishers Abandoning DRM

tmalone writes "The New York Times is reporting that book publishers are beginning to phase out DRM-protected audio books. This month the world's largest publisher, Random House, started offering DRM-free mp3s; Penguin has announced that it will follow suit. Their logic? DRM just doesn't work. 'Publishers, like the music labels and movie studios, stuck to DRM out of fear that pirated copies would diminish revenue. Random House tested the justification for this fear when it introduced the DRM-less concept with eMusic last fall. It encoded those audio books with a digital watermark and monitored online file sharing networks, only to find that pirated copies of its audio books had been made from physical CDs or DRM-encoded digital downloads whose anticopying protections were overridden.'"

41 of 218 comments (clear)

  1. duh. by Dance_Dance_Karnov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    the blindingly obvious usually will win out in time.

    1. Re:duh. by IBBoard · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think this is needed as a tag for this article - suddenoutbreakofcommonsense.

      Isn't this all based on something we try to teach children? If you give someone trust then they will do the right thing, but if you're instantly distrustful then they're never going to do the right thing.

      Hurrah for non-DRM! It's good to see they put some effort in to this rather than just going "we must put digital restricting management on the files because of 'teh leet haxxorz' who will cost us trillions of dollars and destroy the world economy by being selfish enough to want to do what they wish with the file they've paid for".

      If only I had the cabling to format-shift my two Discworld audio book tapes.

    2. Re:duh. by Idimmu+Xul · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Way to not read!

      Isn't this all based on something we try to teach children? If you give someone trust then they will do the right thing, but if you're instantly distrustful then they're never going to do the right thing.
      From the blurb

      It encoded those audio books with a digital watermark and monitored online file sharing networks, only to find that pirated copies of its audio books had been made from physical CDs or DRM-encoded digital downloads whose anticopying protections were overridden.
      People are going to pirate whether their is DRM or not, which is pretty much what their study found.. the DRM did not stop piracy, so why pay extra for a mechanism that doesn't work and inconveniences legitimate purchasers?
      --
      The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
  2. Audible.com not allowing non DRM books by DKlineburg · · Score: 4, Informative

    I understand this was originally causing quite a stir with Audible.com. Audible stats that it will not allow any non DRM books to be placed on there site. Even if the author requests that they do so. I know of one author mentioned on TWIT - This Week In Tech. (I believe was John C Dvorak, but can't remember) that we was not going to put his book up on Audible.com just for the reason he wanted it not DRM'd. With all the major book companies shifting to a none DRM format, I wonder if sites like this that are smaller will change there attitude.

    --
    Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Audible.com not allowing non DRM books by allcar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Audible insists on DRM, so I won't use audible.
      Whenever the free, pirated version is technically superior to the costly commercial version, the business case is on pretty rocky ground.
      There are an increasing number of examples showing that people will pay real money for products that can easily be obtained for nothing, but it must be worth their while. Well presented, high quality, DRM free recording, perhaps accompanied by supporting extras, such as maps and illustrations will sell. The recent experiment by the Nine Inch Nails is an excellent example of people being prepared to pay for a premium product.

    2. Re:Audible.com not allowing non DRM books by Alon+Tal · · Score: 2, Informative

      It was Cory Doctorow who complained about Audible's mandatory DRM, in TWiT 124, around the 43 minute mark.

  3. Are they even listening? by Gareshra · · Score: 2, Informative

    I realize almost everyone here knew this back when this whole thing began, but I fear that the music and movie industries will largely ignore this, or, worse, try to improve upon it somehow. The current models are failing, but they don't want to admit it. They'll probably continue investing more into an arms race they can't win. Maybe a mixture of diminishing sales and wasted money will cripple them enough that others can rise up and take their place.

  4. Re:abandon ebooks too by DKlineburg · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I disagree. I rarely if ever will pick up book anymore. I can't do it while I'm driving, while I'm jogging, or while I do a host of other things. Living in the greater Seattle area, a commute that takes an hour is common place. If you can figure out how to get back a useless hour of your time, I think that it is very profitable.

    --
    Memory is deceptive because it is colored by today's events. - Albert Einstein
  5. Is the sky falling? by 49152 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    From the article: "Our feeling is that D.R.M. is not actually doing anything to prevent piracy," said Ms. McIntosh of Random House Audio.

    Wtf? A business person actually seeing whats been f...king obvious for years now? :-)

    1. Re:Is the sky falling? by mSparks43 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      its better than that, they're saying DRM encourages piracy, which makes a funny kind of sense, since even if you buy DRM'd stuff, you then have to turn to the file sharing networks to get the non DRM stuff.

  6. I'm impressed. by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How often does a company actually get the queue and do something right? The fact that they tested their assumption and made a move based on evidence is praise worthy. Not that they will give up, but at least they figured out how they aren't going to win.

    Maybe these books that everyone talks about actually do make you smarter.

  7. Re:abandon ebooks too by kitsunewarlock · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since the only ebooks I've purchased are Role-Playing Game modules, I'd have to disagree. Going cover to cover: yes, I enjoy physical books much more. But searching for a tidbit of information (for school projects as well, in which Google Books is quite the useful tool), I prefer the ability to search through an entire text for a single word instead of flipping through a book for the page I need.

    --
    Ginga no Rekshiya Mata Each page.
  8. Re:abandon ebooks too by bistromath007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, the main problem with ebooks now that paper-like displays are seeing some progress is the cost. $400 for a Kindle is just nasty. When the cost comes down, people will snap those up like crazy, because it's all the benefits of ebooks without the eye strain that kept them away from the concept before. I know I want one, and I've always hated reading stuff on a screen.

  9. Is it not ironic... by yurivr · · Score: 3, Interesting

    that so many people listen to audiobooks in their cars? Who would have thought that poor transportation and urban sprawl lead to appreciation for literacy? Then again... automotive accidents are always on the rise, and surely most of them are due to distractions. Yet if we fix this problem, the economy fails! Efficiency is a bitch...

    1. Re:Is it not ironic... by sm62704 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Who would have thought that poor transportation and urban sprawl lead to appreciation for literacy?

      Er, what? My idea of "literate" isn't having someone read to you.

      You normal people should pity the poor hyperlex. There is no way that someone like us could enjoy a book while driving a car. When we read a novel by a good author, we become totally immersed. We are there.

      When the literate drive we must unfortunately concentrate on piloting thousands of pounds of steel and avoidiong the fucktards that are paying attention to the machine that's reading to them instead of the task at hand, which SHOULD BE driving the damned car.

      -mcgrew

      --
      mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
    2. Re:Is it not ironic... by ta+bu+shi+da+yu · · Score: 2, Informative

      Can someone please mod up that post?

      Don't listen to ebooks in the car folks. It's distracting.

      There's just no way to concentrate on the book when you are dodging traffic and other drivers.

      Won't someone think of the publishers?

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    3. Re:Is it not ironic... by Yev000 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm sorry, but thats a pretty narrow minded view...

      You can quite easily drive a car while having a coversation. Quite a few people do it every day. People listen to the news on the radio in their cars. There are constant trafic announcements and none of this increases the chance to have an accident. So why are you so hostile towards Audio Books? If people should drive in total silence then why don't we have single seated cars with no audio devices?

      It's quite clear that a majority of drivers enjoy having audio of some sort in their cars otherwise *all* cars would not be sold with speakers as standard. In todays world where safety is God, do you really think audio equipment in cars would still be there as standard if it significantly increased the risk of having an accident?

      Now you could argue that it diverts attention significantly enough to cause an accident... But then so do police cars and speed cameras... Maybe we should not have those on the roads too hmm? After all, I could be glacing at that police car instead of putting my breaks on one day...

    4. Re:Is it not ironic... by Kimos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm envious of people who can read on the bus. I get motion sick reading more than a couple sentences while in a moving vehicle. Audio books and an MP3 player give me something interesting and entertaining to do while commuting.

    5. Re:Is it not ironic... by plague3106 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And lets remove advertising billboards while we are at it.

      Excellent idea! Actually Vermont had banned such billboards, it's actually quite nice.

      May I suggest that you are easily amazed. "quite a few" is not a quantative measurement, you cant use it to correlate distractions to accidents. While I'd wager that that over 50% of drivers get distracted daily while driving, the accident rate its quite a lot less.

      I'm willing to be that near 100% of accidents though are directly caused by distracted drivers.

      May I also suggest that driving a vehicle the size of a buss is a little more complicated than your avarage car.

      How so? They handle differently, but so do all cars and trucks. Semis are a bit different, since you have two attached pieces, no one single vehicle.

  10. Re:abandon ebooks too by Rolgar · · Score: 4, Informative
    Wrong


    1. Searching: An index is nice, but I can think of times that I'd rather be able to search.
    2. Portability: With an ebook reader, you can carry your entire library in a device the size of a piece of paper. Sure you have have to charge it, but you've got to sleep some time, right?
    3. Commenting: The ability to markup the book without damaging it book in some way.
    4. The ability to make as many bookmarks as you want. I don't know if any reader has instituted this yet, but this would be a killer feature that would allow you to mark all your favorite pages/passages so you can jump to any of them in a second.
    5. Portable bookstore: Decide you want to read something but don't have the time to go to the bookstore, download the book to your computer or directly to your reader.
    6. Unlimited selection: Everything ever published will eventually be available to be loaded on my ebook reader, but I have real difficulty with the selection available to me at local bookstores, especially with the lack of older titles available.

    What is stopping me from getting into the ebook game now are the cost and features of the readers available. I never pay the early adopter tax, but within five years, I'll probably get a reader. I'm also not interested in paying the same price as I would at the bookstore for a new hardback, because the bookstore and it's share of the price shouldn't be necessary any longer, but as long as I can wait a year and get the book at half of the paperback cost, I'll be sold.

  11. Re:abandon ebooks too by DrXym · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I disagree. Ebooks are fantastically useful. I can pack 100 books onto a PocketPC and have something to read. It's just that so far book publishers and distributors have released their books in proprietary formats, slathered with DRM and that only play on devices they deign to release readers on. Consequently the whole ebook scene has been transformed into a wasteland of warring factions where no standards prevail and the attraction of the concept has fallen through the floor. Amazon Kindle is just an extension of this, choosing to implement yet another proprietary format and ensuring support for popular (free) file formats is minimal.

    Publishers really need to pull their finger out and adopt a common book file format with no active DRM. The consequence of not doing so is ebooks languish. People who want books in an electronic format will just grab them them anyway through P2P, IRC or wherever and the publishers will get nothing at all. Once an industry standard format appears, the format has a good chance of taking off.

    I also think the experience of ebooks and music should be a lesson for digital video downloads. People would have to be stupid to *buy* digital movies from Amazon, Sony, Microsoft, Apple, Netflix or whoever when the content is locked to a handful of supported devices and you are at the mercy of the provider to manage your collection. I don't want to have to own two or three software players, or only be able to play some movies on some devices. Just like with ebooks most people will just turn to P2P instead.

    Drop the DRM. Piracy happens whether DRM is there or not. Dropping the DRM just means more people will buy their direct download videos rather than get it on P2P or copy it from DVD.

  12. Re:abandon ebooks too by harlows_monkeys · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, the main problem with ebooks now that paper-like displays are seeing some progress is the cost. $400 for a Kindle is just nasty

    Actually, $400 is basically free, if you are a heavy reader. Kindle books seem to be uniformly, and significantly, cheaper than the non-Kindle editions. A heavy reader will make up that $400 in a year or so, and then start pulling ahead.

  13. Re:abandon ebooks too by Archtech · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One of the big lessons we all need to learn is this: People are different!

    Some get addicted to drugs; others don't.
    Some have their health ruined by alcohol; others drink like fish yet remain fairly healthy.
    Some get sick when they eat certain foods; others thrive on them.
    Some lose weight by exercising; others don't (true; look it up).
    And some will never give up paper books, while others will be happy to do so.

    It makes life more complicated, but also more fun.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
  14. AUDIO book by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think you and the parent are talking about different things. eBooks SHOULD be digital books, text documents. You are talking about AUDIO books, books being read by someone. Note how he talks about low-light, while you talk about driving.

    Granted, the original article gets pretty confused about it as well.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  15. Re:abandon ebooks too by RedWizzard · · Score: 3, Insightful

    a paperback book beats an ebook in any way, any day Really? How much will you bet me that you can do a text search on your paperback faster than I can on my ebook?
  16. Avoid Audible.com for your own peace of mind by justsomecomputerguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

    As the unwilling DRM expert in the school district I work for, I've told all the Librarians to NOT buy from either the Apple iTunes store or Audible.com, to instead buy the books as CD's or even Cassette Tapes and then make their own DRM-less MP3 files for use on the players the district checks out to students.

    We don't do this to get around copyright law, we buy as many copies as are made available, but it is simply NOT WORTH THE TIME AND TROUBLE to deal with DRM.

    1. Re:Avoid Audible.com for your own peace of mind by douthat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Both Audible and iTunes audio books support CD Burning out of the box. If it is your prerogative, you can then rip the CDs to DRM-free mp3s or oggs, or whatever. The DRM is annoying, but not invasive, but using these services is really about the instant gratification. (You can also authorize your audible account on a seemingly endless number of computers and devices. There are also apparently some tools to strip the DRM in pure software.)

      --
      She loves me: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0 She loves me not: 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688BF ...
  17. They really would be better off with just PDFs by MikeRT · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What the publishers need to do is make an agreement with a few distribution channels to get their books out there in PDF format incredibly cheap. If I could buy a typical $8 paperback book on the iTMS and sync it to my iPod Touch for $3, I'd buy a lot more books. Not only that, but if you got it down to around $3, the publisher would have much fewer worries about piracy because it'd be clearly discounted for internet sales. One of the things that is just asinine is that most ebooks cost as much as the printed copies!

    I've debated a few IP expansionists on a subject that would do much more to hamper piracy: bringing IP under state property laws. You catch someone making a business off of your IP without you releasing it for free? How does grand theft sound instead of "copyright infringement" if it's really property? You want to get rid of serial piracy, especially the for-profit kind? Throw the punks in with the guys who commit real felony property crimes.

    Of course that's assuming IP is real property...

    1. Re:They really would be better off with just PDFs by STrinity · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What the publishers need to do is make an agreement with a few distribution channels to get their books out there in PDF format incredibly cheap
      Please, no. PDFs should be reserved for files where the layout is important. With ebooks, I don't care if the pagination matches that of the dead-tree version. I'd much rather have some form of text markup language where the software can rewrap to make optimal use of my screen space.
      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
  18. My take on ebooks and readers by zotz · · Score: 2, Interesting

    My take on ebooks and readers:

    http://zotzbro.blogspot.com/2007/11/ereaders-and-ebooks.html

    Summary:

    You need a great reader at a great price.

    eBooks should be way less than regular books people.

    Have every regular book come with an eBook in a sleeve in the back or have a code printed in it that allows for a free download of the book.

    A bit more at the link and a place for more permanent comments.

    all the best,

    drew
    http://zotzbro.blogspot.com/

    --
    FreeMusicPush If you want to see more Free Music made, listen to Free
  19. Re:abandon ebooks too by Mathinker · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Your comment ignores the plethora of free content for ebook readers. Never heard of Project Gutenberg? And it's not the only game in town, lots of publishers are trying to raise interest by free giveaways, at least in the science fiction / fantasy genre (Tor, Baen).

    > if you are a heavy reader. -----> if you are a heavy reader of expensive enough ebooks.

    There, fixed that for you.

  20. 7. Variable type by davide+marney · · Score: 2, Insightful

    7. Variable type: With an ebook reader, you can zoom the font size to suit your needs and/or abilities. Invaluable.

    --
    "We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
  21. So Just Watermark Them Then by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Since the watermarks survive, as the content plays indistinguishably with them in there, but don't prevent copying, why don't they just watermark everything?

    If they charge your credit card when you download the watermarked content, they can just watermark the content with your card ID. Then if they catch a file out there in the wild, they can see who it came from, and investigate the cardholder and the contentholder with violating copyright law.

    If it's even worth the bother. They'll realize that people distributing some of the content for free to their friends the best advert for more content. And even if they give all the content away free, they'll realize that the content is just a way for people to connect to its author, so the content is advertisement for all kinds of other products: presubscription premiere releases, physical copy collector's items, schwag like T-shirts/posters/actionfigures, personal appearances, "author's picks" compilations of other content, recommendations of other authors, branded SUVs with the author's signature...

    The audience has already moved into the 21st Century "free content" economy. These dinosaurs are still selling CDs as if they're still in the business of selling plastic discs, that they emboss with content-encoded patterns as a marketing stunt. Well, they can't custom-watermark CDs so easily, and the costs of trucking them around is more than they "lose" on free downloads. They should get with the program before they're nothing but an obstacle.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

    1. Re:So Just Watermark Them Then by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I said "investigate", not "prosecute". The evidence of your watermark in the wild isn't enough to conclude that you were party to illegal copying. In fact, the recent ruling that just exposing your storage to the public on the Internet doesn't make you liable for copying means that many legitimate downloaders aren't liable even when it's copied. But transaction records can show that the person who downloaded it didn't have the right to do it.

      The watermarks can't be so easily detected or removed. The simple way to hide them is to use the download ID itself as the index into the data, then brute forcing it from the relatively short (secret) list of IDs (GUIDs from a very large, but sparsely and randomly populated namespace). Or a secret number from a very short list that's the key to which bit the watermark starts in. The watermarks then run a pseudorandom walk through a small percentage of the low bits of the entire file, indistinguishable from inherent noise. Watermark contains the download ID, and thereby the identity of the original downloader. That cheap and fairly simple watermarking is not going to get cracked or discarded without reducing the quality of the recording.

      And I said that eventually these publishers would see that overall limiting the copying is a losing game, compared to what I described. But since they're not there yet, they could at least admit we're all well past DRM, even if we're not to completely unencumbered - or eventually, even publisher-assisted - freely copied content.

      --

      --
      make install -not war

  22. Re:abandon ebooks too by Eivind · · Score: 2, Informative
    As you just pointed out, Ebooks -are- infact superior to wood-pulp books in some ways, and inferior in other ways.

    As long as that remains so, they will suceed in some uses and fail in others. Notice how wood-pulp books are unlikely to improve much over the next few decades but Ebooks are certain to do so though, this likely means that ebooks will get more popular over time.

    Advantages:
    • Can be read in darkness
    • Saves space physically.
    • Free when the content is. (there is much free content)
    • Cheaper than paper to buy content.
    • Search, bookmarks, annotations, integration of errata
    • Instant availability of content wherever there is a net-connection.
    • User-selectable font-sizes (good for people with poor eyesight)


    Disadvantages:
    • More expensive reading-device (~$400 versus ~$0)
    • Reading-device requires batteries
    • Less durable


  23. Bleah... wake me up when they add eBooks... by argent · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I was briefly excited until I realized that this had nothing to do with multi-format eBooks.

    Guess I'll stick with Fictionwise and Baen for a while more.

  24. inaccurate subject by trawg · · Score: 2, Insightful

    would it have been that hard to prefix it with 'audio'? I don't care about audiobooks

  25. Re:abandon ebooks too by txoof · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Ebooks are a fantastic invention for the following reasons:

    1. Searching: An index is nice, but I can think of times that I'd rather be able to search.
    3. Commenting: The ability to markup the book without damaging it book in some way.
    4. The ability to make as many bookmarks as you want. I don't know if any reader has instituted this yet, but this would be a killer feature that would allow you to mark all your favorite pages/passages so you can jump to any of them in a second.
    College kids would die for those features in their text books, not to mention the whole portability thing. Lugging 30 pounds of books from class to class is never fun. As somebody who studied literature and science in university, I would have loved having all of Shakespeare at my fingertips in a highly search able format. No more skimming and poking around for the verse I wanted. Also, being able to search a chemistry text for the word "redux" or "hydronium" or whatever would have saved me tons of time when studying. The book marking feature is brilliant as well.

    Unfortunately, for the some of same reasons an ebook is perfect, it also is lacking.
    1. Searching instead of an index - I've stumbled upon countless, worthwhile side tracks while flipping to a particular page. It's sort of like finding a hidden treasure right there in the book you've used hundreds of times. You're digging through your perl book, looking for how to parse a string and you stumble on some database function that is EXACTLY what you need for some other project. That just doesn't happen when you search. It's serendipity at its best.
    2. Commenting - buying a used book with someone else's comments is both entertaining and incredibly helpful. I don't think I would have made it through some political science classes without some of the notes scribbled in the margins of my text books. I had no idea what the hell I was doing and some of the summaries in the margins really helped me along. Today, when I borrow a cook book from someone and find all sorts of notes in the margin, it's like a gift of insight from a much more talented chef.
    3. Bookmarks - On that one, I agree, bookmarks in dead-tree books suck. They fall out, they're not at all transmittable between copies.

    What I'd really love to see is some sort of hybrid Ebook. A book with REAL e-paper pages and perhaps an input pad that you could write on with a stylus. You could write notes on the pad and insert them INTO the "margins" of the document where ever you wanted. I enjoy the act of turning a page; that could be simulated with a 4 page epaper book with some sort of ADVANCE> button that would display another set of pages. It wouldn't satisfy my desire for skimming, but the portability would be phenomenal.

    --
    This one's tricky. You have to use imaginary numbers, like eleventeen... --Hobbes
  26. Confirmation of my three-stage theory? by Rhapsody+Scarlet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've made a three-stage theory on DRM:

    1) DRM is introduced, many bold claims are made about it, manufacturers are very excited about it, cracking efforts begin.
    2) The DRM starts to get cracked, new schemes are introduced with equally bold claims, many legal threats are made, but it starts to become clear that this isn't working.
    3) Investigations are done into how beneficial DRM is, and the results aren't favourable to DRM. The DRM is deemed to be costly and useless, and is promptly abandoned.

    e-books seem to be moving towards stage 3 right now. Of course, there is the possible stage 4 to be concerned about.

    4) Stage 3 is somehow forgotten, DRM is re-introduced, many bold claims are made about it...

  27. Re:abandon ebooks too by Nathanbp · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'd like to point out that at least one book publisher gets it. Baen sells their titles as eBooks in plain, DRM-free HTML as well as a variety of eBook reader formats (with infinite downloads) for a somewhat reasonable price ($4-6 for a book, $15 for selected bundles of 4). In addition, a selection of their books are online for free at the Baen Free Library, in the same formats.

    (I have no association with Baen beyond being a happy customer.)

  28. mas vale tarde que nunca by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 2, Insightful


    The computer software industry generally realized twenty years ago that copy protection schemes cause more problems than they solve. (When was the last time you had to look up a word in a printed manual, or attach a hardware dongle, in order to run a piece of software?) Copy protection is rarely difficult to circumvent, adds to the costs of media distribution, provides no benefit to the legitimate customer, and often drives legitimate customers to become illegitimate for the sake of convenience.

    It's nice to see a sign of hope that other digital content industries may finally be coming to the same conclusions.