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Physics Journal May Reconsider Wikipedia Ban

I don't believe in imaginary property writes "The flagship physics journal Physical Review Letters doesn't allow authors to submit material to Wikipedia, or blogs, that is derived from their published work. Recently, the journal withdrew their acceptance of two articles by Jonathan Oppenheim and co-authors because the authors had asked for a rights agreement compatible with Wikipedia and the Quantum Wikipedia. Currently, many scientists 'routinely do things which violate the transfer of copyright agreement of the journal.' Thirty-eight physicists have written to the journal requesting changes in their copyright policies, saying 'It is unreasonable and completely at odds with the practice in the field. Scientists want as broad an audience for their papers as possible.' The protest may be having an effect. The editor-in-chief of the APS journals says the society plans to review its copyright policy at a meeting in May. 'A group of excellent scientists has asked us to consider revising our copyright, and we take them seriously,' he says."

24 of 155 comments (clear)

  1. Rather obvious solution by rueger · · Score: 4, Funny

    Claim that your physics thesis uncovers corruption in the Bush administration and pass it on to Wikileaks!

  2. Some journals are still milking both ends by heteromonomer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I find it outrageous that some journals are still charging the authors AND the subscribers. As a subscriber I am willing to pay for quality but then don't charge the authors.

    1. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by blueg3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It provides motivation to not submit worthless articles. If there's zero cost for submission, then tons of completely useless articles would be submitted, and the cost for going through all of them would be a problem.

      Not that, as an author, I particularly liked the charges for submitting (or the insane charges for subscription), but there is reasonable motivation behind it.

    2. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by tritonman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It sounds to me like more people trying to claim intellectual property of something that they did not come up with themselves.

    3. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by delt0r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Some? try almost all. And its worse than that. The editors are not usually paid. The reviewers (as in peer reviewed journal) are not paid. The authors are not paid. Yet the journals gets the copyright and charge *huge* fees for online and physical subscriptions. Journals like nature are the worst for this and charge by far the most. This is why i try to publish in open access journals only.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
    4. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by pipatron · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What about a fairly high cost for submission (no, not that kind of submission) that you would be refunded if the article is accepted and published?

      --
      c++; /* this makes c bigger but returns the old value */
    5. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by DeadPanDan · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That would give an incentive to reject all submissions. It puts money into the decision making process. Bad bad bad.

    6. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by Raul654 · · Score: 3, Informative

      (Speaking as someone who has reviewed conference submissions) For some good quality (tier 2) computer engineering conferences, only about one in five submissions is accepted. (At tier 1 - ISCA and PLDI, it's like 5%) Often times papers are reject not because they are bad or horribly flawed, but simply that there are better (more important, better conducted, more thorough) papers available. High submission fees discriminate against these papers, and especially against research groups that do not have as much fundings as others.

      --


      To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
      --E.C. Stanton
    7. Re:Some journals are still milking both ends by ceejayoz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That would give an incentive to reject all submissions. And how, pray tell, would an academic journal without articles make money?
  3. Rewriting by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At least in linguistics, there's a few scholars who just keep submitting the same research to journal after journal and collection after collection, just rewriting the article each time. If that's tolerated, why isn't putting the information on Wikipedia?

  4. Maybe I'm in the wrong field by elrous0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've published to professional journals (as a academic historian) before, and I've never had to surrender copyright to the journal (agreement was strictly for publishing rights). And I don't know any academics who would tolerate that (especially since the vast majority of academic journals don't pay you to publish your article and many articles lead on to books). Is academic physics THAT different?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:Maybe I'm in the wrong field by rangek · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've published to professional journals (as a academic historian) before, and I've never had to surrender copyright to the journal (agreement was strictly for publishing rights).

      For chemistry:

      The undersigned, with the consent of all authors, hereby transfers, to the extent that there is copyright to be transferred, the exclusive copyright interest in the above cited manuscript, including the published version in any format (subsequently called the "work"), to the American Chemical Society....

      From http://pubs.acs.org/copyright/forms/copyright.pdf

      For physics:

      Copyright to the above-listed unpublished and original article submitted by the above author(s), the abstract forming part thereof, and any subsequent errata (collectively, the "Article") is hereby transferred to the American Physical Society (APS)...

      From http://forms.aps.org/author/copytrnsfr.pdf, which interestingly enough wouldn't let me cut-and-paste without using a hacked version of xpdf. :P

    2. Re:Maybe I'm in the wrong field by JoeRandomHacker · · Score: 3, Informative
      For Computer Science:

      Copyright to the above work (including without limitation, the right to publish the work in whole or in part in any and all forms of media, now or hereafter known) is hereby transferred to the ACM (*for Government work, to the extent transferable -see Part B below) effective as of the date of this agreement, on the understanding that the work has been accepted for publication by ACM. From http://www.acm.org/pubs/copyright_form.html
    3. Re:Maybe I'm in the wrong field by Slightly+Askew · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, that is only funny if you do it to the American Association of Behavioral and Social Sciences.

      --
      Public use of any portable music system is a virtually guaranteed indicator of sociopathic tendencies. -- Zoso
  5. Quantum Wikipedia by bluephone · · Score: 5, Funny

    Quantum Wikipedia is of immeasurable quality.

    --
    jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
    1. Re:Quantum Wikipedia by kclittle · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, actually, you can measure its quality to any arbitrary accuracy, but you then cannot measure its quantity to any accuracy whatsoever. The converse holds as well.

      --
      Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
    2. Re:Quantum Wikipedia by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny

      So: the article could either be correct or incorrect, until someone reads it?

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  6. Or Better Yet by maz2331 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just stop publishing in those journals and create your own. The barriers to entry are pretty low to set up an on-line publication, and even dead tree publishing of scientific papers isn't that expensive.

    If any of these journals lose even a fraction of the scientists submitting material in favor of a more-open competitor, then the journal loses, not the scientists.

    And never, ever, under any circumstances even consider thinking of assigning copyright to anyone.

  7. Self-preservation by fropenn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why would you pay to read an article in a journal if that same information or report were available elsewhere? It is a case of self-preservation on the part of the journal to protect itself from competition.

    The internet has dramatically changed how information is accessible, and journals must respond to this new paradigm. The idea of a journal still plays an important role - by providing a process of peer review and editing for quality - but it seems the days of paying for paper copies and journals holding sole copyright of individual articles are waning.

    Finally, on a related issue, as a taxpayer, why should I have to pay to read about research that I already supported through my tax dollars?

  8. USENIX just made access to its proceedings free by al1984 · · Score: 3, Informative

    PhysRevLet is behind the times. The trend is for open access. This week, USENIX, the computing systems association and sponsor of many major conferences, is making access to all its published papers and conference proceedings free to the world. This blog has details.

  9. legality versus reality by bcrowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've published in PRL, back in the 90's. Basically what happened around then was that physicists were some of the earliest adopters of the internet and the web, and as soon as those tools became available, physicists started making their papers available to their colleagues for free in digital form. They still usually referred to them as "preprints," but in fact they'd still be sending them out after the paper had been accepted by the journal, the copyright transfer had been signed, and the paper had come out in print. Also in that era, arxiv.org was set up to archive preprints systematically. For decades now, arxiv has been a vital, ubiquitous part of the infrastructure of physics research; if arxiv is illegal, then I guess every single working physicist in the world is breaking the law every single working day of their career, because that's how much it gets used. The whole thing was sort of a blindingly obvious application for the internet. As an academic, what you care about is getting your research out there so that people know about it -- that's what builds your career. Nobody ever saw any conflict between the fact that (a) you assigned the copyright to the journal, and (b) you were still giving away copies. You might be able to argue that there was no legal conflict, because fair use applied, but realistically everybody saw it as a nonissue, because it was your own work you were giving out, and the journals were nonprofit entities.

    What PRL should really reconsider is its whole policy of demanding copyright transfers. All they really need is a license from the author. This is a case where the legalities have lagged a couple of decades behind real-world practices. PRL is the most prestigious journal to get your work published in, but I think they realize that they're essentially expendable at this point at an institution; the minute a sufficient number of physicists get sufficiently upset with them, print journals can find itself replaced rapidly by open-access journals.

    Virtually all submissions to PRL are done in LaTeX format, so there is no cost associated with typesetting. All the referees, and nearly all the editors, are unpaid. The printed format is basically obsolete, and the prices charged to libraries are simply ridiculous. This is a classic case where you just have an ossified institution that refuses to change.

    1. Re:legality versus reality by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      PRL persists despite the fact that it has no identifiable purpose. At one time, the idea of a "Letters" journal was for rapid publication of select short articles. Letters journals needed to be selective, so they could operate in an efficient fashion. Ironically, in practice it typically takes much longer to get a paper published in a rapid-publication journal like PRL than in a regular journal like Physical Review, because the referee process is so ponderous. Papers always go to at least two referees, sometimes three or more. In my experience (I have published in and refereed for PRL), this does little to improve the quality of the referee process: it simply makes it more capricious.

      Meanwhile, with the advent of arXiv, rapid publication is no longer an issue: by the time a high-quality paper makes it through the review process, it has already been cited a dozen times, and the citing articles have themselves been read and cited. Likewise, there is no longer any point whatsoever to a four-page limit like that imposed by PRL: who cares?

      The only reason PRL still exists is the perceived prestige. Having a dozen PRL publications is a gold star on your job application or tenure portfolio, even if those papers are wrong, or poorly cited. Meanwhile, more modern, efficient and useful open access and online journals are poorly indexed by commercial citation services such as ISI Web of Science: even influential, highly cited papers published in these journals count for relatively little with university administration bean counters. And tenure is no insulation from the pressure to publish in letters journals: tenured faculty frequently publish with students and postdocs, and recognize the need for their more junior collaborators to count the proper coup. And so the system perpetuates itself. PRL will continue to matter until the old guys (and they're almost all male) who think it matters die off. Which will be a while.

  10. Re:This is stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    If you read the original article (not the New Scientist piece, but the statement of the authors), it is not that they want to put their work on Wikipedia. This is just used as an example -- they want to release their work under a creative commons license. Mostly for other specialized services. I guess this may include the Quantum Wikipedia.

  11. You don't need to pay to publish! by feranick · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is a lot of confusion here, and even worst, people don't seem to know what they are talking about... In order to publish your work in Physical Review journals you don't have to pay a dime. It's free to submit. You only need to pay if you want color images in the printed version (it's free for Online only color images).

    The idea of refunds, or charging for publication as a way to select publication is just non-sense. You don't need to refund something you don't pay in first place. Selection of papers is done through peer-review, a hard enough process the get through, that money isn't really the issue.