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Buckyballs Can Store Concentrated Hydrogen
Pickens brings news that researchers from Rice University have discovered that it's possible to store hydrogen inside buckyballs. Hydrogen can be an excellent power source, but it is notoriously difficult to store. The buckyballs can contain up to 8% of their weight in hydrogen, and they are strong enough to hold it at a density that rivals the center of Jupiter.
"Using a computer model, Yakobson's research team has tracked the strength of each atomic bond in a buckyball and simulated what happened to the bonds as more hydrogen atoms were packed inside. Yakobson said the model promises to be particularly useful because it is scalable, that is it can calculate exactly how much hydrogen a buckyball of any given size can hold, and it can also tell scientists how overstuffed buckyballs burst open and release their cargo."
"Be light, stinging, insolent and melancholy"
it can also tell scientists how overstuffed buckyballs burst open and release their cargo."
Well, if these are being burst open, then it means that these have to be built AND loaded each time, and then disposed. So now, we are going to either break apart water (cool, but inefficient), or strip H from fossil fuel (efficient, but bad news for the CO2). Then we are going to build bucky balls, store the hydrogen in it (at 8% volume), sell you the buck ball, your car will magically break the balls (most likely pressure or heat), this will power either an ICE (very low efficiency) or a fuel cell/electric motor (high efficiency, but high cost due to fuel cell).
Of course, we could just take the electricity and charge a battery and then run an electic motor, all at more than double (or even triple) the efficiency and probably half to one third the costs.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
...but each burst buckyball is 60 carbon atoms floating around in your fuel. Aren't you right back to "hydrocarbons" if you burn this fuel, and won't the carbon poison fuel cell membranes? It's a cool trick _iff_ you can strip the carbon out efficiently before the hydrogen is used.
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
So all we really need is a really big buckyball, and we've solved the hydrogen storage problem.
Of course, we still need to figure out how to get the soft gooey hydrogen inside the chocolatey pocket of the buckyball, especially at "center of jupiter" pressures. Maybe the folks at Cadbury might reveal their secret. We'll also need to figure out how to get the hydrogen out once we're ready to use it.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
An alternative to carbon-fuel which requires storing that alternative in carbon?
Once you crack those buckeyballs open to get the H out, the C has to go somewhere, right?
What am I missing, here?
Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
Otherwise known as gasoline.
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
Pregnant women, the elderly and children under 10 should avoid prolonged exposure to Hydrogen Filled Buckyball.
Caution: Hydrogen Filled Buckyball may suddenly accelerate to dangerous speeds.
Hydrogen Filled Buckyball contains a liquid core, which, if exposed due to rupture, should not be touched, inhaled, or looked at.
Do not use Hydrogen Filled Buckyball on concrete.
Discontinue use of Hydrogen Filled Buckyball if any of the following occurs: Itching, Vertigo, Dizziness, Tingling in extremities, Loss of balance or coordination, Slurred speech, Temporary Blindness, Profuse sweating, Heart Palpitations.
If Hydrogen Filled Buckyball begins to smoke, get away immediately. Seek shelter and cover head.
Hydrogen Filled Buckyball may stick to certain types of skin.
When not in use, Hydrogen Filled Buckyball should be returned to its special container and kept under refrigeration... Failure to do so relieves the makers of Hydrogen Filled Buckyball, Wacky Products Incorporated, and its parent company Global Chemical Unlimited, of any and all liability.
If Hydrogen Filled Buckyball should become soiled, wipe gently with a soft cloth moistened with sulfuric acid.
Ingredients of Hydrogen Filled Buckyball include an unknown glowing substance which fell to Earth, presumably from outer space.
Hydrogen Filled Buckyball has been shipped to our troops in Saudi Arabia and is also being dropped by our warplanes on Iraq.
Do not taunt Hydrogen Filled Buckyball.
Hydrogen Filled Buckyball comes with a lifetime guarantee.
Hydrogen Filled Buckyball. ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
In the nuclear fuels field, we deal with really exotic temperatures and pressures in materials whose bulk properties might be only two or less orders of magnitude from standard temperature and pressure. Did you know that there are people sitting around, calculating the pressure of an individual helium atom in a crystal lattice? The pressures that arise put planetary cores to shame.
Could densely packed hydrogen be encouraged to fuse somehow? Perhaps with some sort of "laser"?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
"Professor, that's amazing! The buckyballs will bind the hydrogen so well that it won't leak out of the container?"
"That's correct. We're very pleased with these results."
"And to release the hydrogen to be able to use it, you just crack open the buckyballs, right?"
"I beg your pardon? No, no, it's bound extremely tightly to the carbon matrix. That's what we've developed, a way to bind hydrogen."
"But to actually use the hydrogen, professor, you have to get it back out. How do you get it out of the buckyballs?"
"Ah, well, that's something that we'll address in year 4 of the grant."
"Which is...?"
"2011."
The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. - Mark Twain
Let's RTFA a bit: "'Based on our calculations, it appears that some buckyballs are capable of holding volumes of hydrogen so dense as to be almost metallic,' said lead researcher Boris Yakobson"..." If a feasible way to produce hydrogen-filled buckyballs is developed, Yakobson said, it might be possible to store them as a powder."
What a difference one word can make in a summary. News flash, "Miss Universe can have sex with Slashdot users! According to simulations conducted with fold-out pictures in Randy's basement..um...research center"
The simulation work is pretty cool, the headline and summary can and does mislead the reader.
P226
While I haven't run the math, I think if you compress the hydrogen in Jupiter's core down to briefcase size you will find that it will keep going and form a nice little singularity....very easy to fit in a briefcase....shortly before it EATS the briefcase and then you...
Back of envelope math:
One earth mass will form a singularity at around 10 CC (or so I've heard)
Jupiter's core is about 10 earth masses (or so I've heard)
Ergo one Jupiter core will form a singularity at about 100 CC.
A small briefcase will hold 100 CC plus a little extra.
Only one questions remains...how will we get the core of Jupiter to LOOK like the report I was supposed to read last night?
My question is how to you stick the nozzle in from the gas pump. And when will it work in my Hummer? Will they start installing Electron Microscopes at Chevron?
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
As someone who does model calculations involving buckyballs myself, this is a very intriguing calculation. But if I showed this to my buddies down the hall who do fullerene chemistry, they would have a few questions about how they are supposed to pack that much H2 in a fullerene and then scale the process industrially.
Everyone assumes that these will be used for fuel cells, but why not use them for fusion?
I know one technique has been laser fusion. Target several lasers at one point and they reinforce each other. Then drop in a tiny sphere of fusion fuel surrounded by glass of plastic and the lasers cause the sphere to exploded both outward and in which increases the pressure enough to cause fusion.
This concept has to be more efficient with a VERY high pressure fuel. So we give our packed buckyballs a charge and electromagnetically shoot them into the center of the lasers and POOF you have fusion..
Just a thought, any comments?
One thing is that theoretics will blow singularities out the window. One theory holds that Jupiter's core is a solid mass of crystallized carbon. Yep, you can guess what that is, Diamond. Another theory, with a more stable foundation, is that hydrogen at that pressure and temperature, becomes metallic. Essentially within your little buckyball, you would have a sphere of hydrogen metal. If your buckyball can handle > 100GPa,(over one million atmospheres) then the hydrogen atoms will undergo a phase change and become metallic.
If this is practical and it's energy potential can be tapped, we'll have at our fingertips, an unlimited power source that won't kill you with radiation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metallic_hydrogen
First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
...If your buckyball can handle > 100GPa,(over one million atmospheres)... If your buckyball can handle > 100GPa,(over one million atmospheres), then you should just be able to inject a few under a piston, release the pressure and use the released pressure to drive your engine.There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
Hydrogen is more of a battery than a fuel and it is ALWAYS by DEFINITION going to have negative ER/EI. Why? Because the energy required to pull hydrogen out of water or methane or petroleum is going to be greater than the energy you get from burning the hydrogen. What the "hydrogen economy" seeks to do is to protect the sunken cost of the suburbs, and the sunken costs of the automotive infrastructure, both of which are joined at the hip and are completely unsustainable. It's a fools errand and will fail. There is also the not inconsiderable energy that goes into making the bucky balls, etc.
Face it: gigs up. Game over. Prepare to slowly powerdown.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Okay, no one in a modded-up post on this story understands the concept. Buckyballs look like soot. You have a tank filled with this soot in your car. Then you flow very high pressure hydrogen gas over them for awhile (this has been done for years with carbon nanotubes, which offer more storage but because they only confine in 2 dimensions, unlike the balls, they don't provide the capillary forces necessary to make this easy). Hydrogen then adsorbs (notice ADsorbs, not ABsorbs) onto the inner surfaces of the Buckyballs. Capillary forces, like those that cause liquid to be drawn into a straw, allow the hydrogens to live essentially as liquids inside the balls, meaning that when you remove the high pressure hydrogen flow, the hydrogren in the buckyballs doesn't all immediately fly out. Hydrogen leaks out of the balls slowly, becoming a gas and maintaining a roughly constant pressure in the tank, and you then siphon off the hydrogen that you want to power your car. You can control the leakage rate by changing the temperature.
You then reuse the Buckyballs by flowing hydrogen gas over them when they're empty. They're 100% reusable storage, not tiny gas tanks. Someone mod this up so that the dozens of "oh nos, Buckyballs hurt teh environments" posts go away.
"I zero-index my hamsters" - Willtor (147206)
Wake up world. Hydrogen isn't a source of energy any more than capacitors are. It's a way to store energy.
-- QED
So, you have a system that can store hydrogen in carbon balls at high pressures. (the cold fusion folks manage to get 6000 pascals or so inside a metal lattice chemically.) What I want to know is how long can you store it. Hydrogen leaks through anything. the atoms fit BETWEEN the molecular bonds in most metals, plastics, even wax. That's the reason that space rockets are refueled constantly. (boil off of something that boils at 4 Kelvin is really something too!) The tanks leak!
What is the half life of the hydrogen storage in this system?
So, if the buckyball left the factory last month, how much H2 content will it still have? Once it decays down to atmospheric temperature, it does me no practical good.
Everybody knows 3 people with my name.
Well, this seems to be purely theoretical work about whether buckyballs *could* contain dense hydrogen, not how to achieve it. However, I can think of two very interesting possibilities, energy-wise, if it could be achieved.
1) Superconductivity: Metallic hydrogen is a superconductor. Not sure how that would work conducting current through the shells, though. While just being a superconductor doesn't give you energy, it makes it easier to transmit energy.
2) Fusion is all about the combination of the density of your targets and energy of your collisions. This is some impressive hydrogen density being discussed.
That was either the start of something bad or the end of something stupid.
How about this, then:
Store the hydrogen at atmospheric pressure in a large, oblong balloon-like vessel, and strap your vehicle underneath it. You not only have a fuel source, but you have buoyancy as well and can soar above the traffic. We'd finally have those flying cars they've been promising us.
Oh, the humanity!
Pyrene is a hydrogen transfer catalyst that can contain 0.99% hydrogen if hydrogenated to 4,5-dihydropyrene. I did the same H2 content calculation for C60 and found that the current state of the art, one H2 in one fullerene or C60@H2, is 0.28% hydrogen. To be better than pyrene, you need to put in eight hydrogen atoms as four H2 molecules, or C60@4H2. To give that 8% storage capacity you need not less than 62 hydrogens, or C60@31H2. That's slightly more than one hydrogen per one carbon, which is a lot. (Gasoline is 16% hydrogen, btw.)
The major problem with this "discovery" (it's just a calculation, I'd say) is that you'll need to design a chemical synthesis that forces metallic hydrogen into a buckyball, without inducing hydrogenolysis (spontaneous production of hydrocarbons from hydrogen and carbon). Then you should be able to design molecular "hatch" that you can open and close while being under this enormous hydrogen pressure. A small obstacle to this being that I suspect nearly any heteroatom you'd need for the hatch would be immediately torn off by hydrogenolysis. My guesstimate would in fact be that the fullerenes themselves would be hydrogenolyzed on contact with metallic hydrogen. As you can see, it's the physicists and their phyucher flying cars again. It's interesting but no real problem has been solved.
And also, the problem of producing the hydrogen is still unsolved, no matter the hype. The problem that we want a reducing agent (H2), which unavoidably requires energy to produce. The major options are fossil and nuclear; the world runs out of arable land area if we try to produce it by agriculture. Actually the situation can be summarized like this:
1. Invent technologies to transport or spend existing hydrogen (fuel cells, hydrogen storage, etc.)
2. ???
3. Hydrogen economy!
Pedantically speaking oil isn't an energy source either, it's just a storage medium for solar energy.
We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
We have, already, an unlimited source of energy in the Sun. The real problem is how to transport and condense that energy into useful-to-us forms..
..don't panic
...an unlimited source of energy in the Sun. I understand why you would say this, but you think too small for my tastes. The Sun doesn't contain enough energy in total for some of my more grandiose schemes.a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)