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NVIDIA's Drivers Caused 28.8% Of Vista Crashes In 2007

PaisteUser tips us to an Ars Technica report discussing how 28.8% of Vista's crashes over a period in 2007 were due to faulty NVIDIA drivers. The information comes out of the 158 pages of Microsoft emails that were handed over at the request of a judge in the Vista-capable lawsuit. NVIDIA has already faced a class-action lawsuit over the drivers. From Ars Technica: "NVIDIA had significant problems when it came time to transition its shiny, new G80 architecture from Windows XP to Windows Vista. The company's first G80-compatible Vista driver ended up being delayed from December to the end of January, and even then was available only as a beta download. In this case, full compatibility and stability did not come quickly, and the Internet is scattered with reports detailing graphics driver issues when using G80 processors for the entirely of 2007. There was always a question, however, of whether or not the problems were really that bad, or if reporting bias was painting a more negative picture of the current situation than what was actually occurring."

11 of 344 comments (clear)

  1. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    ATI was 9%

  2. Re:What is the standard procedure? by vbraga · · Score: 4, Informative

    You can download Windows DDK (Driver Development Kit) for free. It's pretty good but doesn't play nice with Visual Studio IDE.

    You must pay for testing and signing your drivers, I think.

    --
    English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
  3. Nothing new here by spasticfantastic · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nvidia have a shamefully lax attitude to the stability of their drivers even under XP. Try searching google for NV4Disp.dll and you'll see that there is an issue that still causes BSOD's years after it was first reported, ironically the latest drivers only make the issue worse. This latest news will only make sure that my next card will not be from Nvidia.

  4. Re:Huh? by Patoski · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know you say that in jest, but the article states that ATI have 9.3% of the problems. It stands to reason that it is representative of their market share. This was a little surprising to me as well, but ATI had about 20% of the market during 2007.

    GPU Market Share
    =================
    Intel 37.6%
    Nvidia 32.6%
    AMD 19.5%

    Source: http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9752280-37.html

    It would seem that AMD has managed to turn around their driver's stability and it is better than nVidia's, who apparently has a pretty poor record at the moment.
    --
    G. Washington on Government "it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
  5. Re:Not surprised by Pyrophor · · Score: 3, Informative

    but they historically have sucked somewhat less than the ATI drivers LINUX + ATI + Dual Display = BAD! The 169 series NVIDIA drivers are junk for all operating systems. LINUX + NVIDIA (100.14.19 driver) + Dual display = YAY! // A round of applause everyone -- I used the Preview button!
    --
    PYROPHOR
  6. Re:Not surprised by boteeka · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've never seen any driver for Linux adjust the resolution on the fly

    This is because it is not the driver who changes the resolution. It is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XRandR who does the magic.

  7. Re:Not surprised by miknix · · Score: 3, Informative

    The automatic adjustment was probably not caused by the driver. Looking at nvidia-drivers README

    13C. DYNAMIC TWINVIEW

    Using the NV-CONTROL X extension, the display devices in use by an X screen,
    the mode pool for each display device, and the MetaModes for each X screen can
    be dynamically manipulated. The "Display Configuration" page in
    nvidia-settings uses this functionality to modify the MetaMode list and then
    uses XRandR to switch between MetaModes. This gives the ability to dynamically
    configure TwinView.


    It's always good to RTFM
  8. Re:Time to open up those drivers NVIDIA by pragma_x · · Score: 3, Informative

    Well, consider the fact that without reliable drivers, it doesn't matter how good their chips are. Shipping a video card with bad drivers that are difficult to fix/upgrade/replace is as bad, if not worse, than shipping sub-standard hardware with good drivers.

    I prefer to look at it this way: The good folks at NVIDIA obviously aren't doing a perfect job, so why can't they enlist some (free) help? With the proper specifications in hand*, anything is possible. So I dare to say "yes", a thousand geeks with free time to burn can certainly do better.

    As for the OP's crack about opening the drivers themselves, NVIDIA needs a massive reality check: they're in the *hardware* business - the drivers just make their cards more marketable. And given that those drivers are known to be a major PITA on some environments (Linux and now Vista), it certainly isn't helping their position.

    (* Yea, they probably want to guard this with an iron-clad NDA and know all your PII before you sign it. I've always found this to be sparse logic at best since we're just talking about stuff that can be reverse engineered for one, and two, all a developer needs is what bits to set and when; it's not like that crap is necessarily a company's bread-and-butter. )

    </rant>

  9. Vista must die for this to happen. by inTheLoo · · Score: 3, Informative

    From Wikipedia:

    Writer and computer scientist Peter Gutmann has expressed concerns that the Digital Rights Management copy prevention scheme in Microsoft's Windows Vista operating system may limit the availability of the documentation required to write open drivers as it "requires that the operational details of the device be kept confidential."

    Source article

    This is the only way the "trusted path" will work and it would be convenient for Microsoft if people and institutions did not realize that this is an unacceptable way of doing things.

    --
    No calls now, I'm ...
  10. Re:Sounds a lot like finger pointing to me by cmacb · · Score: 4, Informative
    Here is a link:

    http://technet2.microsoft.com/windowsserver/en/library/eb1936c0-e19c-4a17-a1a8-39292e4929a41033.mspx?mfr=true

    Depending on what version of "blame Microsoft" you are responding to the complaint may or may not be legitimate.

    Windows NT 3.51 may have been the most stable version of Windows in history. I think it was the one on which Microsoft spent the most time and money on testing and on a fairly massive scale went out and helped hardware and driver people with their testing (providing labs with a large variety of configurations etc.). They were trying to solidify the Windows base within businesses, and convince businesses that Windows was no longer a toy (i.e. gaming) operating system only. The goal, among other things was to get people off of OS/2, older versions of Windows (93 and WFW).

    The program was a great success. Not only did large parts of the federal government switch, I even made the switch on my home machines. Unless you were a gamer (in which case you would have still been running 95 or then 98) you could have experienced a relatively unbloated and crash-free Windows experience. It was the lat time I tried running Windows for days on end without regular restorative reboots.

    As the link states:

    "In Windows NT 4.0, drivers were moved into kernel mode to improve performance. However, when a kernel-mode driver fails, it can crash an entire system, whereas the failure of a user-mode driver causes only the current process to crash."
    In point of fact, video drivers could "fail" prior to 4.0 and only cause minor screen corruption or glitches, or in fact be asymptomatic. After 4.0 though, the same failure might cause a system crash, or might cause other programs to appear to crash, or might cause disk I/O buffers to contain garbage that would subsequently be written out to disk and cause crashes hours later, not to mention you wondering why your spreadsheets were deteriorating over time.

    I don't remember Microsoft going out and asking video vendors if they thought this was all a good idea. In fact the element of surprise was very important to MS for some reason on the 4.0 announcement... no pre-announcement of features being added or removed as there were for years leading up to Vista. They certainly didn't ask me. I left the meeting telling my colleagues taht this was nuts. And I don't think they gave either vendors or users much time to adjust to the changes as I went from thinking that Windows had finally arrived to wishing I had stayed with OS/2.

    From what I read, MS no longer does the extensive testing they did for 3.51, and in fact they make driver and hardware makers pay them for any help they get in order to be "certified". Having won the game of becoming THE business operating system, MS said "screw you" to the partners that helped them get there. Typical.

    MS engineers bragged about being geniuses during the 4.0 product roll-out for moving drivers to kernel space, but the move was necessary due to GUI bloat that was added for that release. Subsequent bloat of that nature has made each subsequent version of Windows seem less snappy and take up more memory, and no doubt the next product roll-out after 4.0 (at which point I had stopped attending) I'm sure the MS engineers bragged about being geniuses for moving drivers back into user-mode for reliability reasons. Both moves might have cause significant adjustments to be made by driver makers on short notice depending, for example, on whether they were relying on memory protection and changing the nature of their context switches.

    If you don't blame Microsoft for some of these driver problems you either work there, or haven't been paying attention for long enough.
  11. Re:What makes me wonder... by scubamage · · Score: 3, Informative

    That is incorrect for numerous reasons - first, it is utterly false (refer to this article). Dell presented court documents that late changes to windows drivers code broke numerous driver packages, so your idea that the changes were documented for 'years' is hogwash. Secondly, the OS that was in development was known as longhorn, which was later scrapped and replaced with a different OS - look up longhorn reloaded.