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eBay Australia Makes PayPal Mandatory
An anonymous reader writes "Australian press are reporting that eBay is using Australia as a guinea pig to trial a new policy where all other modes of payment are barred except for PayPal. If successful, eBay will roll it out to other markets."
It looks like it is time to look for alternate online auction houses.
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
I refuse to use Paypal because I am not convinced it is covered by banking regulations. These may not be perfect (understatement of year to date) but are surely better than nothing. Can anybody explain to me in what way entrusting funds to Paypal offers any real and accessible legal protection against fraud?
From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
Ebay's success comes because it's a moderator - a broker in a sale. It connects two parties together, and nothing more. When it does that, Ebay is golden. It's UI is nice, it's search feature generally works, and that's why it's a multi-billion dollar corp.
But if they cram paypal down my throat, I'll swallow something else. I'm already at the point where Ebay is my LAST resort, since their ratings have been so thoroughly gamed I have no idea who I'm really dealing with, anymore.
Forcing paypal? No way. I refuse. What's the next halfway decent auction house? Truthfully, I've already moved much of my online purchasing to froogle.com....
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
That's fucked up. So now, not only do I have to pay eBay a fee for listing my item, I also have to pay PayPal a fee to get my money? No thanks.
I already canceled my account since they were forcing me to provide PayPal as a payment option. I really don't understand this. There are SO many people that just don't trust PayPal, So MANY horror stories that PayPal has a stigma against it. Even people that have PayPal now and have never been burned complain that PayPal in addition to the eBay fees cuts into their profits margins too much.
I will never create a PayPal account to take money from people. I just won't do it. So now I cannot sell anything on eBay anymore. Well if eBay can survive just from the Power Sellers, then that is what will happen, but it won't be a place for the average joe to sell his stuff.
I must also say that since eBay burned me and pissed me off, I have not even searched eBay for any products in over a month. I use to check pricegrabber.com, pricewatch.com, cdw.com, and a few other sites in addition to eBay. I don't even check eBay at all now.
Good Luck eBay, your going to need it.
What do you think would have happened if it had been purchased with a stolen credit card, check book, etc? Same thing. PayPal is not acting any different then any other group in that position, in fact the have a legal responsibility to do what they do. Ownership of stolen funds or goods does not change when they change hands for a second time. Pawn shops get burned in this manor a lot.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
If successful, eBay will roll it out to other markets.
If they roll it out in the EU, this could fall foul of competition laws; the credit card companies/banks could presumably complain of being shut out, given Ebay's near total dominance.
(Obvious the same could apply in other countries, but the EU currently seems keenest on actually enforcing competition laws.)
So, let's build a list of alternatives.
If its mandatory, make it free (for use on payment for ebay items, charging for other uses is OK). How can they justify a double charge?
I've already emailed a complaint through their contact system. I've had many happy transactions trough bank transfer from both a buyer and seller perspective. This is the ENTIRE reason for the rating system - so you know who you are dealing with before the transaction. I will cancel my account tomorrow and simply buy new over the internet. With the overshopping that goes on on ebay, I'll probably even save some money and get new stuff rather than second hand. Ebay is going the way of Microsoft, way way down under.
consider coffee a lubricant that helps one penetrate the coding zone
"If successful, eBay will roll it out to other markets." Of course they'll be successful, all other modes of payment are barred!
Taking a slight tangent, but I think this is a prime example of one the web 1.0 heroes turning evil. The original management have ceased running the show and we have new management wanting to eke out every dime possible using strong-arm tactics like this one.
Contrast this with Amazon, Google & Yahoo whose operating ethos is still relatviely benign (especially when compared to Microsoft or Apple). Getting to my point... I think Google at the moment is not evil, but you can bet your bottom dollar when Larry & Sergey leave the stage, Google will turn evil, just like Ebay.
I'll see your hokum and raise you a boondoggle.
blam! the sound of eBay shooting itself in the foot.
.au that they will not dare make the same change to .com .co.uk etc.
as a buyer paypal has some good points - limited protection, traceability, etc.
but as a seller it sucks big time as just adds another set of fees to your sale.
eBay nicks nearly 5-10% of the sale price including paypal.
if they made paypal free and just part of the eBay service then there might not be so many arguments, but to enforce it and then make additional money is such a blatent money grab that this will backfire big time.
buyers may like it, but if there are no sellers then there will be no buyers. it will be interested to watch how the number of items for sale changes in ebay.au after this is enforced. anybody know how we can plot a graph of items for sale vs. date to track the impact?
I'm guessing that there will be such a negative impact in
from eBays point of view they are being pressurized to add more traceability into their system by law enforcement worried about fraud and fencing - so they are really between a rock and a hard place here.
one thing is certain - behind every internet giant is a number if "would bes" who will seize every opportunity to steal business, so eBay will have to tread carefully here.
Doesn't eBay -own- PayPal...?!?
Well, forcing your customers to use your subsidiary company (or any supplier, for that matter) sounds pretty anti-competitive to me... and - if the Aussie comtetition watchdog barks loudly enough, eBay may have to play fair again.
I'm sure credit card vendors will scream "Fowl!" soon...
I hope they will do this, and then realise thats its a big mistake when customers go elsewhere. Its a great opportunity for a competitor to steal some of their market.
Read as:
"You have been giving already a lot of money to us. Nevertheless starting 17 june we want to get more money from you, just because we can.
We are so confident that we don't even feel the need to justify it by adding the usual bullshit about security issues with other payments methods.
Take note that the purpouse of these innovations is ultimately to fuck you, our loyal user, in the ass. So you are welcome to join us to discuss your "position" on our Q&A Forums where our dedicated masters will educate you (in bdsm techniques)
For those of willing to submit without futile resistance we will grant some recreational activities including the online brainwashing course on how we did successfully turn a user supported community into a pyramidal scheme lookalike wich will benefit your ebay masters for a loong time" I guess it's not far away the time when google gets the slight hint of business opportunity.
the merchant is the CC company providing the funds.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Wait, who is "fine" with this bullshit? Not many people outside of eBay/PayPal management, I'd wager.
... and then they built the supercollider.
It seems that with this, and the Amazon news from a few days ago, some of the companies that experienced rapid growth during the first .com bubble by offering what the customer wants vs the old model of trying to control the market are now switching to the old model. They control enough of the market now that it probably seems safe to their board to do this, but they are forgetting how rapidly they themselves were able to grab market share, and seem to be missing the fact that if someone new moves into the space they are vacating, the market share that the new company takes will come almost entirely from their customer base. They should also keep in mind that it won't necessarily be a startup that moves into their space; Google, Yahoo and Microsoft are all contenders that could jump in and cause a massive shift in the market almost immediately.
since you're talking about GBP, i'd bet that your positive experience with paypal in that situation is entirely due to the fact that you live in a country where paypal is regulated like a bank, a country where paypal can't disclaim responsibility merely by claiming "we're not a bank". paypal fixed the problem because they had to, there were UK laws & regulations on your side that forced them to do the right thing.
if you lived in the US, you'd be screwed. paypal is effectively unregulated there. hell the yanks can't even properly regulate their banks. regulation is unwanted, and there's been a lot of propaganda to make it a dirty word, because "regulation hinders business"....which is much more important than preventing consumers from being ripped off.
like you, i live in a country (AU) where paypal is regulated similarly to banks. after many years of wanting nothing to do with paypal, i finally gave in and got a paypal a/c a few years ago (but only after i got a second debit card - no way was i going to give them direct access to my bank account). now, though, i'm seriously considering cancelling both my paypal and ebay accounts in protest.
not that they'll care one little bit about my protest/boycott - there are way too many stupid sheep in the world who'll just accept ebay/paypal's "rules" without question and without even thinking about it.
I meant I thought I saw a Google Checkout payment option on Amazon. Although if I didn't imagine it, this new project of Amazon's might explain why they don't offer Google's service any more...
Nobody else has this sig.
Remember people they are not a bank. They are just some people holding onto your money. How would you trust someone you dont know to hold your money?
Maybe you think my story is isolated but read online. Paypal routinely freezes peoples accounts only to never let them have their money.
But why would you let them "hold onto" your money?
I have a PayPal account and use it fairly often. I don't keep any money in there. What point is there in doing so? If I want to pay for something, I have PayPal take the money off my credit card. (They cannot do so without authorization, by law.) If I'm being paid for something, I wait until I have the payment notice and then I immediately have that money transferred to my bank account.
Even if you're a bulk seller, I can't see how it's all that difficult to just go in there once a day and transfer the balance to a bank account. It takes less than one minute.
PayPal should be seen as a conduit between buyers and sellers; that's it. If you use it that way (and it is the proper way to use it), then their service is fine. There's no reason to leave a bunch of money in your PayPal account. You may as well give it to some guy on the street and ask him to hold it for you.
In my jurisdiction, the buyer carries any risks from the point on when the seller ships the item. The seller only needs to prove he shipped the item, if the buyer never receives it he needs to take it up with the shipping company. If the buyer is concerned about losing the package, he should feel free to take out some sort of insurance (at his own expense).
The buyer could still claim that the package didn't contain the item in question, but that would mean he's openly accusing the seller of fraud and there are significant punishments for doing so unfounded.
The parent post got modded funny but it's no joke. About half the time when I search for something, *especially* something nefararious like "Nigerian scam", half the results that come back are in the form of "Buy Nigerian scams on Amazon!" or "Search for Nigerian scams on Google". How is this useful??!
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
I ordered a PS2 game from some guy (or group) with nearly 20,000 feedback with like 98% positive (at the time; this was a year or two ago). I paid with PayPal which, after all, provides "$2000 buyer protection." The game never arrived, and the seller stopped replying to emails, so eventually I opened a complaint with PayPal.
To keep this story as short as possible, apparently all it takes for a seller to get around not sending you your item is to send you SOMETHING and provide a tracking number. I received something in the mail in a very small envelope that was clearly not my game (didn't open it; eventually returned to sender after all this was "resolved"). PayPal closed my complaint and would not let me reopen it to claim that the item I had recieved was "materially different" from the one I ordered.
Eventually, I called PayPal to complain, and after implying that I was the scammer, they grudgingly returned my money.
In short, PayPal is great as long as you buy from honest sellers. Buy from a dick who know how to work the system, and you have no recourse. Sure, with enough complaints they would probably do something about the guy, but as long as he screws over only a small percentage of his customers (from his feedback, he pulls this shit fairly regularly; avg. 8 complaints/mo.), there's nothing you can do. Caveat emptor.
(sigh)
A business (ebay) is not allowed to tell its customers (me, the guy selling a used PS2) that I can accept one-and-only-type of payment (paypal), and nothing else. It would like if JCPenney rented space in XYZ Mall, and the Mall demanded that JCPenney can only accept XYX-Mall Payment Services. Not visa, not mastercard, not check, nor cash. Only XYZ Mall's services. That's illegal under U.S. trade and anti-trust law.
(shrug). I thought most people realized that, but I guess if you don't sell on ebay, you don't realize how anti-competitive it is to demand Auctioneers can only use Paypal. It's dictatorial; anti-free trade, and monopolistic. I (the customer of ebay) should be able to accept check if I prefer to use that method of payment.
The government is not your daddy. Its purpose is not to raid middle-class neighbors' wallets and give it to you.
That's illegal under U.S. trade and anti-trust law.
Care to link to the appropriate U.S. federal regulation that says so? Because the U.S. Treasury says that businesses can determine whatever payment methods they wish.
XYZ Mall could certainly require the payment terms you specified as part of the lease agreement. And, JCPenney would be free to simply find a different location for their store.
Surely eBay isn't the only place to sell stuff online?
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
Ever been to a store that didn't take cards? Is accepting Cash Only illegal? Nope. Can I be shut down or fined if I don't accept checks for groceries? Uh uh. What if I don't want my delivery drivers to take cash for C.O.D.s? Fine...let 'em. It's not illegal. Are there online companies who don't take cards? You bet...not successful ones, to be sure, but I've seen and shopped at places with web sites that only take checks or money orders. They could mandate Flooz if they wanted to. This is only slightly different, in that your broker, essentially, is mandating the payment types you can accept.
So maybe a better analogy would be a flea market owned by Muslims...they believe debt is sin so don't allow credit cards to be used on their property. Don't like it? They'll tell you to find somewhere else to sell your fleas: Allah does not want you here. Illegal? I doubt it.
Or if you lease kiosk space in a mall: it's not unusual for mall owners to not only mandate payment types, but also that you use their card processor so they can get volume discounts. Anti-trust? Pa-shaw. It's the price you pay for working with a broker.
My debut novel AMITY now available: http://jeremydbrooks.c