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Chinese Blogs, Netizens React To the Tibet Issue
Bibek Paudel writes "Over the past few weeks Chinese bloggers and people on Internet forums have been reacting to events in Tibet and the protests disrupting the torch relay. The BBC and Global Voices have interesting insights on the recent happenings on the Net. A western commentator says, 'Lots of Chinese people now view the Western media, human rights groups, and Western leaders' criticisms of their country as part of the Racist Western Conspiracy to Stop China From Being Successful.' One of the most vocal appeals by the Chinese blogs, forums, and text-messages has been to boycott French goods in response to the protests that accompanied the torch relay in Paris. One response post reads, 'Who is abusing human rights? Who is bringing violence to this world?' There also are two versions of music video of the song Don't Be Too CNN, and its lyric has assumed the status of a cult catch-phrase. Sina.com has a popular page: 'Don't be too CNN, fire to the Western media.' Many analysts believe that the protests over Tibet have only served to strengthen Chinese nationalism rather than evoke sympathy for the Tibetan cause. Sina.com has a petition against the Western media which has reportedly accumulated millions of signatures. There is also Mutant Palm, a blog by an expatriate in China who has been watching and commenting on the fallout from Tibet and torch protests online."
On one hand I don't get good coverage of the situation in Tibet because western reporters just do not go there. And on the other hand Chinese reporting is state run and thus essentially a state run propaganda outlet.
Having observed the Dali Lama's tours and speeches for the last few year I find Chinese media assertion that The Dali Lama is running a terrorist network absurd, but their reporting to the contrary might be causing Tibetan supporters of the Dali Lama to become more extreme as the only media source available to them tell them that the Dali Lama is urging armed uprising.
In many ways the Chinese government is seeding the dissent which will give them an excuse for violent oppression of the Tibetan people. I am not sure whether this is evidence of a brilliantly executed evil agenda or standard government incompetence.
I have long held that Tibetans are doomed. It is the exact reason why Gandhism fails - it has in the core a belief that oppressor will feel you pain at some point (or shame at oppressing you, whichever way you put it).
But in this day and age of "remote" media, there is no (visual) connection between people - and the assumption fails at the very premise.
If Tibetans had an army, fought a war - and lost - they would have a much better say.
you have no idea how true this is.
I am currently teaching ESL in Korea.
there are a lot of Chinese people working in Korea, and since they speak limited English, and I am here with a friend who speaks Chinese, and we are foreigners in a strange land, we spend a lot of time together, talking.
One day, Tienanmen square came up, and they wondered why Westerners always made a big deal about that particular spot.
"it was just a bunch of bad students" one said to me. she knew something happened there one, but no specifics.
that was all they knew.
Tienanmen was just "A bunch of bad students"
I went online, showed them that famous footage.
there was shock, outrage, and disbelief.
2 of them now refuse to return to China.
makes you wonder what our governments are hiding from us.
My Chinese friends are always making little jabs at me here and there, because British Colonialism was so awful, and wrong. And being white makes me inherently guilty of everything wrong with the world. (despite the fact that i am not British)
They all agree that Tibet is a part of China
I told them all "fine, i will agree to that, Tibet is as much a part of China as India is a part of Britian."
-I only code in BASIC.-
Two things:
1. I think it's pretty dangerous to try and 'dictate' anything to a country armed with nuclear weapons and ICBMs. This includes China and the United States.
2. Yes, I think our ongoing injustices (Gitmo comes to mind) should be part of the global discussion. I also think our Allies and Trading Partners should be encouraging us to live up to past promises (*cough* Geneva Conventions *cough*) and the better parts of our history.
In that same vain, I don't think the West should be dictating anything to China. But we don't need to be their lapdogs either. We don't need to overlook their abuses simply because it's profitable to do business with them.
Personally, while I'm not going to encourage a boycott of the Olympics, I'm not really feeling any particular desire to go out of my way to watch them either. I felt a lot better about them when the Chinese were treating them as a well-deserved (IMHO) reintroduction to the World after decades of oppression and stagnation. If they turn them into a nationalist spectacle than I don't think comparisons between 2008 and 1936 are entirely unjustified.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Yup - you're absolutely right. It's nothing but nationalism run amok. I find it particularly amusing that the Chinese are pissed off at the French as well. This has the exact echoes of the nationalistic frenzy many Americans were in when the French decided to not believe the WMD bullshit.
To be honest, I'm far more concerned about that than Al-Qaeda. Remember what happened the last time nationalism was this rampant and blind? 2 countries were invaded - 1 without any reason. Furthermore, many of the internal violence across the world can be traced to excessive attachment to a particular tribe/ethnicity/nation. The exception to that are the various communist movements and drug cartels.
Here's something else I've learned from the comments left by Chinese nationalists on various blogs and news stories: they have less in common with me than I have in common with Iraqis. Their concept of free speech is completely different. Their concept of human rights is completely different. Their concept of historic relativism is completely different. Here's what I see:
Chinese nationalists value territorial integrity, international face, unity and harmony above all. I value individual self-determination and free speech above all - in other words, chaos over harmony.
You can easily see this in their rage against news outlets, where a bad story about a Chinese government action is taken as an insult from all of western civilization against all of China.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
Actually, the Japanese actually helped the Communists in China. At a time when the communists were about to be crushed by the national government, the Japanese invaded and distracted the national army long enough to let the communists get strong.
It's a pretty dramatic story, actually. The nationals had chased the communists all the way from southern China up to the north, spent months doing so in what is known as Mao's Long March, and were finally about to crush the rebellion. The nationals were camped at the ancient hot springs outside Xi'an (these springs have been in use by kings in China for 1,500 years at least). The Japanese had invaded, but the leader still wanted to crush the Communists before facing the Japanese. At that critical moment, some of the nationalist troops kidnapped the nationalist leader and forced him to give up chasing the Communists. This event is memorialized in Communist tradition as 'the Xian incident.'
Qxe4
I am Chinese and I received this poem circulating in the Chinese circle which I think captures the sentiment of ordinary Chinese rather well .
A LETTER FROM AN ORDINARY CHINESE
When we were seen as "Sick Men from East Asia", we were called The Peril.
When we strived to get stronger, we are called The Threat.
When we closed our doors to the world, you forced them open with drugs and guns.
When we finally embraced Free Trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs.
When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and robbed us blind.
When we put the broken pieces back together again, "Free tÂbet" you screamed, it was an invasion!
So, we tried Communism, you hated us for being Communists.
Then we learned from Capitalism, you hated us for being Capitalists.
When we had a billion people, you said "The planet is starving."
So we tried to limit our population, you said it was Human Rights Abuse.
When we were poor, you think we are dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts.
When we build our industries, you blame us for global warming.
When we sell you goods you can afford, you blame us for dumping inferior products.
When we buy oil, you called that exploitation and assisting genocide.
When you fight for oil, you called that Liberation of Its People.
When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you wanted Rules of Law for us.
When we uphold our law and order against violence, you called that Violating Human Rights.
When we were silent, you said we have No Free Speech.
When we are NOW silent no more, you say we are merely "Brainwashed".
"Why do you hate us so much?" We asked.
"No" You answered, "We don't hate you."
Truth is we really don't hate you either, but do you understand us?
"Of course we do" You said, "We have BBC, CNN and AFPs."
So we ask you now "What do you really know and want from us?"
And "Why do you find it SO hard to accept us?"
While China's economy is based on exporting crap to us, our federal bonds are issued mostly to the Chinese government.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again. We are in a state of economic mutually-assured destruction.
They call in our debt: our economy collapses. They can't sell their shit to us anymore. Their economy collapses.
We stop buying their shit: Their economy collapses and they're forced to call in their debt. Our economy collapses.
While China's economic strength is tied to ours, our strength is just as equally tied to theirs.
A few points from a Westerner who has lived in China.
1. Must supporting Tibet and the Olympics be mutually exclusive?
2. Talking to my Chinese friends (I have many), almost none have ever actually seen CNN. They have A. read www.anti-cnn.com or B. read or seen about it in Chinese media.
3. China is not the last bastion of independent thought, nor is the USA for that matter. Chinese people almost never seek out secondary sources of information, either because of lack of education (cannot read English, etc), Western media is blocked (i've lived there, don't tell me it is not true, though it is accessible if you know where to look), or lack the desire, or discipline, to seek out other perspectives.
When I lived in Beijing from 2004-2006, I got the general feeling that Chinese were enamored with Tibet and thought they were doing no wrong when they brought development to Tibet. So naturally, Chinese think they are in the right. By human nature, people will believe what they want to believe, and furthermore, people develop strong convictions based on little or no information.
Another thing is that the Chinese have demonized the Dalai Lama, which is somewhat absurd. They cannot in any demonstrable way connect him to the violence. Furthermore, the Dalai Lama is a wily politician who has forged relationships with powerful people in the West, whereas the Chinese have little guanxi outside their own nation, save countries they are pouring money into.
Like I tell my Chinese friends, if I want to know what bad things Taiwan has done this week, I'll read Xin Hua or People's Daily. They are at least as crappy as CNN, though they are a different kind of poison than CNN.
One lesson China should be taking from this, and I have seen no evidence of this so far, is that they really need to do a better job of Public Relations. Frequently my Chinese friends, try to make the argument that Bush would not let Texas separate from the USA (I am from Texas), just as China would not let Tibet separate. To which I reply, Texas was already an independent nation, and if you really want a compelling argument, read about the American Civil War on Wikipedia (har har).
I have a fair number of friends from Taiwan as well, and I have guaged their reaction to be a combination of A. Apathy, because Taiwan has been going through this sort of nonsense for a long time, and they are sick of it B. Not agreeing with violence from either party C. Some empathy for the Tibetans, because the Olympics presents them with a rare opportunity to gain media attention.
So, what to take from all this. I'm not quite certain, because I do not have all the information. I am sympathetic to both sides. Living in China was the happiest part of my life.
My feeling is, if China wants to be a great nation, they need to act like a great nation, not whine on anti-cnn online forums.
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
Actually, I have been trying to find documented evidence of the claims you make.
Have monks and nuns been tortured? How many? Have locals been "displaced"? Have they been forced to move from where they were living before? How many? How valuable was the land that they lived on?
The problem I am having is that one side claims that these things are happening, the other side claims that they are not. Some times they agree that the thing happens but disagree on numbers by many orders of magnitude (ex: one side says 100s killed the other side says 100,000s killed when China invaded Tibet).
I am struggling to find clear documented evidence of these great "human rights" abuses. Of course, I am also finding no evidence that such things did not occur.
I cannot get factual answers to the following:
1. How many native Tibetans have advanced degrees?
2. What percentage of the bureaucracy in Tibet has native Tibetans in it?
3. What is the ratio of Tibetans to non Tibetans?
4. What geographic region is precisely the one being argued out about? It seems that there are edge case territories in the boundary that change the counting system when they are included or excluded.
5. Who exactly is participating in the turmoil in Tibet? Are normal everyday Tibetan citizens engaged in this? Again I get two sides claiming different facts.
6. What precise religious rights were taken away from native Tibetans?
7. What percentage of native Tibetans see the Dalai Lama as a great religious figure?
Every fact I have seen claimed seems to have no really strong foundation when you go inspect the original materials. If anybody can provide better sources of information, that would be great.
The problem of course is that China is in the best position to have accurate answers to these questions. But there is not a single example in history (counter examples are welcome) of self-appointed leaders (of reasonably large countries) ever providing non propaganda versions of information to others.