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The End of Non-Widescreen Laptops?

Santi Onta writes "Today Lenovo retired the last NON-widescreen laptop they offered (the T61 14.1) from the market, and Lenovo is just an example (Apple, Sony, HP, etc. are the same). I understand the motivation behind all the laptop manufacturers to move to widescreen: they can still advertise that they offer 14.1 or 15.4 screens, but the screen area is smaller, and thus they save more money. Some people might like widescreens (they are useful for some tasks), but any developer knows that vertical space matters! Less vertical space = less lines of code in the screen = more scrolling = less productivity. How can laptop manufacturers still claim that they look after their customers when the move to widescreens is clearly a selfish one? I just wish they offered non-widescreen laptops, even if it were for a plus (that I'd be more than happy to pay)." I've always preferred the widescreen aspect ratio -- vertical matters, but having two nice wide columns always mattered more to me. Until this reader's submission, I hadn't realized that it was such a contested issue. Does this matter?

93 of 668 comments (clear)

  1. Pixels Are Your Friend by kmsigel · · Score: 5, Informative

    My laptop screen is wide format (1920 x 1200). With that many pixels you can easily have 4 edit windows up at once (2 x 2 array) with each one having the "standard" 80 columns and 25 lines. This still leaves plenty of room around the edit windows for testing windows, frequently accessed desktop icons, etc.

    I admit that stuff on the laptop screen is a bit small (it is ~15 inch diagonal), but when using my 24 inch monitor (which I use 99.9% of the time) the display is a thing of beauty.

    1. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by Jeremiah+Cornelius · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The amateur who says "vertical space matters" to developers, never ran a comparison diff on his code.

      Side by side, my friend. Side by side.

      --
      "Flyin' in just a sweet place,
      Never been known to fail..."
    2. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by dnoyeb · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Vertical space does matter to developers. People even today walk by my desk and laugh at my twisted widescreen HP monitor. They can't possibly see the benefit. Then I drag over a pdf file of a specification document and can read a whole 8.5x11 sheet on that screen while coding on the other screen and they instantly see how well this size matches up.

      Plus I am coding in C at work. Sequential code tends to have longer functions and thus you need more vertical space to see the whole thing.

      A widescreen laptop is a joke. Laptop screens are too small to begin with. Sure, I like diff on a wide screen. But the majority of my work is not diff. Since a laptop screen does not rotate, I prefer the standard setup. It simply does not fit with the proportions I am used to looking at all day, which is a sheet of paper.

      And watching a HD movie on my 15" laptop!?! Haha, what's the point? I'd rather watch it on something designed and comfortable for movie/TV watching.

    3. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by Chaoticmass · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I came here to say almost the same thing. 24" widescreen at 1920x1200 gives me room for four 80x25 terminal windows open with a large readable font, or if I want to I can maximize one terminal window and see almost forever.

      I've never thought of a widescreen as a smaller version of a 4.3 aspect screen. I think of it as a 4.3 screen with extra space on the sides.

    4. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by Blakey+Rat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And watching a HD movie on my 15" laptop!?! Haha, what's the point? I'd rather watch it on something designed and comfortable for movie/TV watching.

      So would I, but the conductor of the commuter train I ride got really upset when I used up a whole row on my sound system alone.

      Christ, do Slashdotters never leave the house? Seriously, you can't think of a single place or situation in the entire world where it would be good to watch a movie, but you can't fit a 54" TV?

    5. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by SleptThroughClass · · Score: 5, Funny

      So would I, but the conductor of the commuter train I ride got really upset when I used up a whole row on my sound system alone.
      The market should take care of that. Just ride a different company's train which supports your sound system configuration, or which offers rental of suitable sound systems.
    6. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by jgrahn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The amateur who says "vertical space matters" to developers, never ran a comparison diff on his code. Side by side, my friend. Side by side.

      Oh, I run diff -y once a week or so. But I scroll around in source code hourly. Vertical space does matter a whole lot more.

      When I code, I always keep emacs on the left half of my screen, and a terminal window (for running make, unit test etc) son the right half. In the terminal, I run screen(1) so I can have easy access to man pages and so on.

      I'm not sure what I'd do with widescreen. I suspect I would end up with an unused vertical area, slightly too narrow for a third 80xX terminal ...

    7. Re:Pixels Are Your Friend by vikstar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm using 1920x1200 on a laptop (17 inch diag). Package structure and classes on the left, with method and field summary on the right, leaving a nice neat box right in the middle for code. Only problem with this is many developers (as in, almost all of them) don't make DPI aware applications, so even though I have nice supersmooth fonts many apps don't lay out correctly.

      As for your sideways widescreen monitor, niiice. I want one. It would be perfect for writing papers on. Write LaTeX on one monitor, compile and have the full page pdf displayed on the next monitor.

      --
      The question of whether a computer can think is no more interesting than the question of whether a submarine can swim.
  2. A Few More Points to Weigh by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Informative

    I thought I would add in a few more points that might influence your stance on this. While standardizing on one is great, I think that we should stick to letting the consumer have the option.

    At the company I work at, there is extreme contempt for hooking widescreen laptops up to projectors and smartboards as the user on the laptop cannot view what they are doing on the laptop's screen (if they do it is super distorted to fit on the other viewing device). While this may sound trivial, imagine sitting at a desk facing a class of 100+ people who are looking at huge screens behind you. Not only end consumers but also the enterprise prefers the choice. Although this is kind of a non-issue if only Lenovo is doing that because my employer won't buy from China ... what with the phone home possibilities of hardware and all. Oddly enough, half the laptops here are IBM's Thinkpads and the other newer half are Dell XPS's (which ironically spurred the widescreen incidents). Leave it to a Fortune 500 company to waste cash on desktop-replacement-laptops.

    And--I'm sure this will come up several times--there is my DVD collection which is mostly widescreen as I have a widescreen TV at home. For this reason, I personally may prefer a widescreen. However, most DVDs are non-widescreen and laptop screens are small enough as it is without having the lost real-estate. Again, probably a trivial aspect unless you travel and watch DVDs a lot.

    I do enjoy Warcraft on wide screens though ... something about horizontal viewing that makes me happy. Although I don't do that on laptops or play Warcraft anymore, it may be something to consider.

    I agree with the submitter that it is important indeed to leave this decision up to the consumer. Actually, since this is just Lenovo, I wonder if this will hurt their sales? If the consumers want it, the companies will notice ...

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Informative

      At the company I work at, there is extreme contempt for hooking widescreen laptops up to projectors and smartboards as the user on the laptop cannot view what they are doing on the laptop's screen (if they do it is super distorted to fit on the other viewing device).

      That's odd. All the laptops I use happily show an 800x600 image square in the middle of the screen when hooked up to a projector. (Either that or I can use it as a second screen. Depends on how your laptop is configured.) You may want to play around in the Display Properties and see if you can reconfigure your laptop to handle that situation correctly. In my experience, there are very few widescreen devices that lack support for 4:3 mode with black bars.
    2. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by MrMacman2u · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At the company I work at, there is extreme contempt for hooking widescreen laptops up to projectors and smartboards as the user on the laptop cannot view what they are doing on the laptop's screen (if they do it is super distorted to fit on the other viewing device).

      Just a thought here, but have you ever considered... oh, I dunno... changing the resolution of your laptops video out to, perhaps, a "standard" ratio such as 1024x768?

      I know, I know, this is just as "extreme" as actually connecting the laptop to the projector in the first place, but really, despite the monumentous stretch of technical wizardry it requires to to actually find and then change the resolution settings to something more appropriate for a projector, it does work wonders for solving that whole distortion problem. Cheers!
      --
      This signature is lame.
    3. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by Knuckles · · Score: 2, Informative

      That is fine for you, but try teaching this to a PHB... It might take some fiddling with the graphic driver (screen control application), but it should be possible to set up the laptop in such a way that it deals with the situation automatically.

      We faced the same problem and were able to make it work (with the ATi control panel on Mobility Radeon X1300)
      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    4. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      "However, most DVDs are non-widescreen "

      I dunno what dvd's you are buying, but most of mine are widescreen. Thankfully, most movies are coming out at their true aspect ratio...and even some old dvd's are being reissued in true aspect instead of the pan and scan they came out on originally. I hate missing out on so much of the picture.

      A lot of tv shows, older ones are in a square aspect...but, most new shows I'm seeing are being prepped for HD...and are in a widescreen aspect ratio.

      So, there are some that are not widescreen, but, I'd say they are the minority, not the majority.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    5. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by Andy+Dodd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      About the only place I see "Full Screen" (what a misleading name!) movies is WalMart. They've lost out on quite a few sales due to only having the FS version of a particular movie, while most other stores will only have the WS version.

      The OP accused manufacturers of going widescreen to save money, but the truth is that the market wants widescreen because there is now so much widescreen content. 4:3 laptops just don't sell any more except to niche markets (pretty much corporate-only). Most corporate users are happy to receive a widescreen laptop or display nowadays for the "pseudo-dualhead" effect of being able to stack windows side by side.

      --
      retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
    6. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the things I like about Vista is that it handles external displays (such as projectors) in a very straightforward way. You connect it up, it asks you what you want to be the main display, and defaults both to their default resolutions. That's it.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    7. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by jimicus · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Although this is kind of a non-issue if only Lenovo is doing that because my employer won't buy from China ... what with the phone home possibilities of hardware and all. Tell me, how do they get on with getting assurances that the motherboards aren't made in China and the final product assembled elsewhere?

      (This is a genuine question; I was under the impression that Dell bought most of the components from China then assembled them close to the customer in order to maintain their "build-to-order" business model).
    8. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by Knuckles · · Score: 2, Informative

      Data transfer rate, I suppose. According to Wikipedia, DVI can do up to 2.75 megapixels with a pixel clock frequency of 165 MHz. Too lazy to do the math, but seems like a lot to me.

      We have our NEC projectors attached to the 100 Mbit ethernet and can access them via an application on the laptop. Works well for presentations, but is too slow for moving pictures.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    9. Re:A Few More Points to Weigh by Firethorn · · Score: 2, Informative

      The quickest answer to this I think would be to take a walk through the AV section of a Walmart type store.

      90% of their TV offerings today are widescreen. I'd expect their DVD offers to follow the same trend.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  3. Use a desktop by KingSkippus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    any developer knows that vertical space matters!

    I suppose there are developers out there who develop primarily on a laptop. Shoot, I'm even one of them, since we only get laptops at my job.

    But I have a docking station hooked up to a 19-inch LCD that I do almost all of my work on, and the laptop display is my secondary display I use to keep my documentation, watch windows, etc. on.

    I would think that most developers either have this kind of setup or do most of their development on desktops, which are generally more powerful anyway.

  4. It doesn't stick with laptop screens! by freaker_TuC · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My suppliers got problems getting the normal LCD screens ; they are all widescreen.
    I've been forced to buy 2 widescreen LCD's because none of my suppliers could get me decent 20/22" non-widescreen LCDs.
    Pretty annoying when coding overnight through a secure shell session, I must say...

    --
    --- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
  5. I just wish... by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they were the same aspect ratio as an HDTV.

    --
    One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    1. Re:I just wish... by zachtib · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's a reason for this. It's so they can still display 4:3 content easily without distortion for instance, i just ordered a laptop with a 1920x1200 display, so it can show a 1600x1200 image in the center of the screen likewise: 1280x768 -> 1024x768 1680x1050 -> 1400x1050

    2. Re:I just wish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I just ditched my 8:5 laptop for a 16:10. It's four times as good.

    3. Re:I just wish... by Chabil+Ha' · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I do this. I have two widescreens tilted at 90 degrees so the I get not only really good vertical space for coding, but great horizontal space for many applications.

      --
      We're all hypocrites. We all have hidden parts, it's the contrast between them that make us more a hypocrite than others
  6. X Series by kotj.mf · · Score: 5, Informative
    > Today Lenovo retired the last NON-widescreen laptop they offered

    Really?

    --
    hang brain.
    1. Re:X Series by skiingyac · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Also a lot of tablet PCs (the X61t as well as many others) still come in a 4:3 aspect ratio, since that closely matches 8.5" by 11", which makes sense since a tablet is often for either viewing or writing something the standard size of a piece of paper.

      Viewing an entire 8.5" by 11" document on a widescreen monitor doesn't work, unless its a 20"+ screen and you view the document in portrait orientation on 1/2 of the screen. I don't think 4:3 screens are going to disappear.

  7. Solution! by Shark · · Score: 5, Funny

    We could all learn to use laptops sideways for coding:

    Boss: Why are you lying down?
    You: To be more productive!

    --
    Mind the frickin' laser...
  8. Wider Screen Tall Screen by Puls4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would much rather have a wider screen. Most coders have multiple windows open, and additional width proves more easy for me to use in that case. In addition, long code statements won't fit on a narrow screen and having to scroll sideways to read your code PLUS scroll vertically is a major annoyance. By going wide you removing ever having to scroll sideways - unless you're in excel. It's a big plus for me.

  9. X61? by outZider · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm on a Lenovo ThinkPad X61 Tablet. As far as I can tell, they are still being sold, and it's a standard 12.1" display on the Tablet and the standard model.

    --
    - oZ
    // i am here.
  10. Non-issue by ccozan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    14.1" with 1400x1050 vs. 15.4" 1600x1050 ? yes, i choose as a developer the last one. The eye sees more left/right than up/down. With the extra 200x1050 i can keep open my Outline in Eclipse _without_ taking place from my editor in the middle. And for films watching is great too. So yes, widescreen, no gloss ( it's a tool, not a bling ;) ).

  11. macurmudgeon by macurmudgeon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    How many people actually write code, or for that matter, any long documents? It mostly about media now days where the ability to watch a wide screen movie is a selling point. And, wider screens are a boon to people who use graphics applications like Photoshop where the extra width gets filled with palettes.

    1. Re:macurmudgeon by MrMacman2u · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not a coder, but as someone who regularly works in graphics design, Photoshop, Web Design, Page Layout, etc... a wide aspect ratio screen is completely invaluable and I have found it frustrating to use the "old" 4:3 style screens for some time now.

      Your natural tendency is to look left and right, not up and down. I have been informed repeatedly of this by people who have "switched" and now favor the wider screen ratio.

      Of course another reason general users probably prefer the widescreen is for viewing movies also, but that's another point all together.

      I, for one, will waste no tears in the death knell of the standard aspect ratio.

      --
      This signature is lame.
    2. Re:macurmudgeon by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Your natural tendency is to look left and right, not up and down.

      I've heard this theory before but it's definately not true in my case, and I suspect a lot of other people (that's assuming the theory isn't complete BS). It seems to have been invented when they came out with widescreen TVs originally, a few years ago... salesmen used to use it as part of their patter.

      I really notice the missing top/bottom on widescreen displays - sure they're cheaper but you've lost data.. instead of creating a 1280x1024 display they create a 1280x800 one, and get to call it the same size measured in inches.

      Look at books and newspapers, or A4 printed material - all taller than it is wide. It's naturally easy to read and you don't call it 'thin'. If they printed a book sideways would it be as easy to read? Interesting test, if anyone's got a printing press handy...

  12. Brevity. Soul of wit. by Zigurd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Write shorter methods. That is all.

    1. Re:Brevity. Soul of wit. by slim · · Score: 5, Informative

      Write shorter methods. That is all. I don't know to what extent you were joking, but I agree with this. If your blocks are significantly more than 50 lines long, there's something wrong.

      The Linux coding style guide contains wisdom on this:

      "Functions should be short and sweet, and do just one thing. They should fit on one or two screenfuls of text (the ISO/ANSI screen size is 80x24, as we all know), and do one thing and do that well." And something similar goes for width:

      "Now, some people will claim that having 8-character indentations makes the code move too far to the right, and makes it hard to read on a 80-character terminal screen. The answer to that is that if you need more than 3 levels of indentation, you're screwed anyway, and should fix your program." I must admit to often failing to live up to those ideals, but that doesn't mean they're good aims to have in mind.
  13. Parent Contains Malicious Links! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    AVOID THE RDS LINKS!

    Anything with http://rds.yahoo.com/ because it is a breeding ground for redirected harmful scripts! Send a message to Yahoo to stop this!

    1. Re:Parent Contains Malicious Links! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Seconded. For those interested, it's a fine website of the GNAA variety. Spawns a number of singing and dancing pop-up windows. Flash and quicktime was observed. There, now y'all don't have to be as stupid as me :)

    2. Re:Parent Contains Malicious Links! by hack++slash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you add "127.0.0.1 rds.yahoo.com" into your hosts file to stop these miscreants from potentially screwing with your computer if you accidentally click on an rds.yahoo.com link, will it have any detremental effect to using any of Yahoo's other services?

      --
      To do something right, you often have to roll up your sleeves and get busy.
  14. Better for Development? by el_chupanegre · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find widescreen is actually much better for development. I'm mainly programming in Netbeans or Eclipse and having the navigator on one side and the 'outline' on the right is great. On a standard aspect monitor, this leaves the central portion for working on code really small. On widescreen (I use a 20" widescreen) this central code portion is much bigger. It's much the same in Visual Studio.

    Perhaps if you were only working in a text editor, maybe doing HTML or something, I could agree. Even then though, do I really need 100 lines on the screen at once?

    I'd much rather have half the lines on the screen and be able to use the extra features of my IDE to aid in navigation and keep my concentration focused on the area that I'm working in.

  15. Re:13" MacBook Pro by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I want a Unicorn. They won't give it to me. Instead I get a horse with a candle stuck to its head. What's your point?

  16. Yes, it's an issue by skiflyer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Anytime you have competing form factors it's an issue... heck we had a glossy/matte screen thread here just last week. Personally, it's an issue for me, but for different reasons. I want 1000+ vertical pixels. And I want a small form factor that I can easily lug around. To get a 1000+ vertical pixels in a widescreen I need to have a 15 inch screen... 14.1 is my comfort limit. So I lose in this discussion. Not exactly a huge loss though.

  17. It matters! by jevring · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Like the man said, vertical desktop real-estate is king! At home I run 2048x1536 (gotta love CRTs), and at work I'm stuck with 1280x1024. While 1280x1024 isn't a wide-screen resolution, it does lack in vertical space. Having a desktop space that is 1280 pixels wide is much less of a problem than having something that is only 1024 pixels tall. Unfortunately this screen isn't rotatable either, otherwise my problems would have been at least partially solved. Wide-screen is fine, as long as you don't skimp on vertical desktop real-estate. If I can keep my 1536 pixels vertically, I care less about how much you give me horizontally (to a limit, of course)

    --
    Move sig!
  18. Think about the keyboard by Sniper98G · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One thing to consider in this is the keyboard. As laptop manufacturers make their laptops smaller and smaller they are almost required to use widescreens in order to keep the device wide enough to have a useable keyboard.

  19. using a 16:10 as my bedroom tv by way2trivial · · Score: 4, Interesting

    is nice, beacuse all the media player apps I use from bed fit their controls into the bottom & top 5% of the screen

    media player, VLC, winamp, the dvd software I use... the bars fit perfectly, I can leave them live and watch 16:9 content

    --
    every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
  20. Not only that by dreamchaser · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What is the actual percentage of the market for laptops who are developers? The summary almost makes it sound like it's the entire user base and that manufacturers are ignoring a huge and important market segment.

    1. Re:Not only that by Neil+Hodges · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ... Also, you have more freedom to customize your machine ...

      Is that a joke? Laptops are some of the least-customizable devices aside from (most) cell phones out there. Unless you want to crack the entire case open, you can usually only change the hard drive and RAM. On mine, it's possible to change the wireless card (thanks to the MiniPCI-like slot), but the video chip can't be upgraded, even though it's discrete. Like it, the CPU is also soldered to the motherboard.

      Unless you want to be tied to a desk and an outlet, you also can't use a different monitor unless you crack your case open and put one of close enough size in. It may not even work, depending on the video chipset and what the laptop manufacturer has done to it. On my laptop, I haven't even found an option to replace the glossy LCD with a matte equivalent.

      The most freedom for customization is still limited to the non-portable set, at least for now. Sometimes I wish laptop manufacturer would agree on a standard, extensible hardware setup like the desktops have (ATX, standard PCIe, ZIF sockets, etc.).

  21. Re:Move to Widescreen by WuphonsReach · · Score: 3, Informative

    Most if not all companies who are shipping laptops, Apple, IBM, Dell, etc... Are purchasing or sourcing their LCD panels to a third party. There are only a handful of companies left producing LCD panels.

    That basically covers the issue. Because of the large (due to the HDTV push) number of widescreen panels being created, economies of scale are coming into play. Which means that with less and less 4:3 ratio glass being created, prices on 4:3 are going up while 16:9 and 16:10 glass is getting less expensive.

    (Personally, I like my widescreen T61. It's almost enough that I can keep two documents side-by-side on the screen instead of shunting the 2nd document off to a 2nd display.)

    --
    Wolde you bothe eate your cake, and have your cake?
  22. One-liners by Ken_g6 · · Score: 2, Funny

    if($laptopAspectRatio eq 'Widescreen') { print "all your code on one line!\n"; }

    These laptops should make Perl one-liners at least a little easier to read.

    --
    (T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
  23. Form factor by Telvin_3d · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not just a case of the manufacturers being selfish. It's a form factor issue.

    The biggest limiting factor on a laptop's width is the keyboard. Almost everything else you can shrink and expand without limitation. Resizing the keyboard is not as easy. By messing with the layout you can add or remove a row of keys but that's about it unless you want to significantly shrink the size of the keys themselves.

    Add to that the fact that every centimeter of extra screen height equals a matching amount of extra case real estate in front that can't be put to very good use, where as extra width lets you expand the keyboard outward.

    So, if you want a more portable laptop any shrinkage is going to have to come from the vertical instead of the horizontal. Also, many backpacks/bags/slip cases have the laptop inserted sideways so one that is smaller in that dimension is easier to get at.

  24. Usability Issues by Graff · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes this matters. It is well-known throughout the publishing world that wide columns of text are harder to read than narrow columns. Our eyes are more suited to reading narrow columns of text than wide ones and having to jump from the bottom of the screen to the top of the screen to read the next column is not optimal. The current generation of widescreen displays and the way text is laid-out onscreen causes you to lose track of which line you are reading and it also causes you to slow down in order to better keep track of your vertical position.

    A display with a higher vertical to horizontal ratio makes it easier to read and edit text on. Text columns are naturally narrower so your eyes have less problems tracking horizontally and the columns are also higher which means that there is less scrolling. It also means that menu bars at the top or bottom of the screen or window take up a smaller percent of the vertical presentation, which uses the display more effectively.

    Widescreen is better suited to video and pictures than it is for text. It would be nice to have displays optimized for text so that people who work with text can do so more effectively. One thing I try to do to counteract a widescreen is to place as many elements as I can (toolbars, etc.) in a vertical orientation rather than a horizontal one. By maximizing my vertical space and using the horizontal space to stack bars side-by-side I do what I can to create a narrow, high space for text. It would be much better to have a screen that was oriented this way in the first place but if you can't find one...

    1. Re:Usability Issues by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The current generation of widescreen displays and the way text is laid-out onscreen causes you to lose track of which line you are reading and it also causes you to slow down in order to better keep track of your vertical position. Newspapers came up with a solution to the mess of long lines years ago: they added multiple columns. Is it that hard to unmaximize a web browser, resize it to half the screen width, and put another page into a second window?
    2. Re:Usability Issues by iangoldby · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Our eyes are more suited to reading narrow columns of text...

      I try... to place as many elements as I can (toolbars, etc.) in a vertical orientation rather than a horizontal one.... I do what I can to create a narrow, high space for text.
      Would I be right in thinking that you tend to work with maximised windows?

      I suspect that a great deal of the argument about wide-screen monitors (even if not in this particular case) comes down to those who prefer working with maximised windows, so that the aspect ratio of the window is fixed by the screen, and those who loathe maximised windows and like to keep multiple windows open side-by-side.

      There was a similar argument recently when the BBC redesigned their News web site. Half the visitors said "Hurray, the big empty space occupying half of my browser window is now a smaller empty space". The other half screamed "Now I have to make the browser window nearly the full width of the screen, obscuring the other windows I have open."
    3. Re:Usability Issues by skiflyer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      yes... am I alone on this? I find resizing windows to be a serious PITA. With the exception of my IM window, I never use a non-maximized window. I really don't know what it is, but I just hate non-maximized windows... Oddly, I don't mind windows that maximize to a non-full screen size.

    4. Re:Usability Issues by Graff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh and it just occurred to me that Slashdot is a fantastic example of how a narrower window doesn't help much. I like to use the nested view (WITHOUT the new discussion system, thank you!) and if I made my window narrower in order to shorten the comments to a more readable width I'd end up with some of the deeper nested comments being much smaller in width than the shallowly nested comments.

      What would be nice is if I could make my window as wide as I want but have the text within each comment turned into columns of a fixed width and height. This would greatly enhance the readability of each comment. Alas, I'm sure that sort of layout would be much more complicated to handle and probably won't happen anytime soon, if ever.

  25. Better for developers by Kolargol00 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wide screens might be better for developers these days with heavy IDEs cluttering the sides of the display with palettes, panels, etc. Thus you don't have much surface left for your code (or it is so narrow that you have to vertically scroll a lot more). At least all other devs at my place envy my wide screen... ;)

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more. Junta
  26. They are looking after their customers... by Anita+Coney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The percentage of coders in the over-all laptop market is probably less than 1%. The vast majority of laptop buyers want widescreen. The better question is why laptop manufacturers would create a line of laptops for such an incredibly small niche.

    If you think there is a large market for coder/laptops start up a business yourself and make a killing. I won't be holding my breath on that.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  27. Best of both worlds? by earthloop · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'd rather have a widescreen display, but one more vertical height than you can currently buy these days. Leave the width the same, just change to height.

  28. This is my fault... by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    Sorry guys, ever since I started putting my homemade porn online, wide screens have become necessary.

    If you know what I mean.

    1. Re:This is my fault... by iceborer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sorry guys, ever since I started putting my homemade porn online, wide screens have become necessary.

      You know, you don't have to show the entire sheep.

  29. I prefer widescreen laptops for development by Jimmy+King · · Score: 2, Informative

    While vertical height matters and is definitely useful, I find myself hindered more by lack of width than height these days. Try working on code in one window, with some reference code in another window, and maybe a website with the online documentation in another window without widescreen on a 15" or smaller monitor. Of course, you can mess about minimizing and maximizing back and forth, but a lot of times it's far more productive to be able to have at least 2 of those up side by side while maintaining enough width of the window to show the majority (or all) of the relevant lines of code.

    Also, using a modern IDE like visual studio or eclipse on a 15" monitor can be somewhat miserable. Those are clearly designed to be used on a widescreen monitor, imo given the default layouts and how small your code window ends up.

  30. Buy Small Business Notebooks! (Dell/HP) by lazy-ninja · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you go through the small business sections of many computer companies sites you will find that they offer a lot of the features they took away from the home market. They are also often better machines for around the same price (if you spec/quote carefully). This is similar to the glossy vs matte screen post from last week... Example Latitude D530 from Dell: http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/latit_d530

  31. Not just for cost by OpenSourced · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'd think that the move to widescreen is global, and not reduced to laptops. Desktop screens in bigger sizes are only widescreen. I think 20" is about the maximum you get in 4:3. Even these are in very short supply. 22" and 24" are just widescreen, and of course I don't think we'll ever see a 30" 4:3 monitor, even if that were desirable.

    I think the laptops are adapting to a general tide in the industry. It's probably not economically viable to keep making 4:3 screens. Also, the laptops have an easier time growing horizontally. You can after all offer a better keyboard. But vertically there is nothing you can add at the "other side of the clap" that has user value.

    --
    Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
  32. Re:Grammar nazi says: by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Funny

    Thanks. I'll try to make that mistake fewer.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  33. Golden Rectangle by Bob-taro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I don't know if this is a factor in the move to wide screens or not, but supposedly the golden rectangle is the most visually pleasing rectangle. It has an aspect ratio of 1.618.

    --
    Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
  34. Why assume it's just to save money? by artifex2004 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The form factor allows for a lot less wasted space below, where the keyboard is, for a device that's overall smaller and easier to carry and stick on small tables. This seems like it was written by someone who never actually carries a laptop around, or just lugs it between desks and plugs it in.

    If you're only using it at a desk, why not just buy a desktop and a widescreen monitor that you turn 90 degrees, so you can get full page views? (Actually, there have been laptops offering detachable, rotatable screens, but they have not been that popular)

    I just opened my Macbook's terminal window and expanded it to full size. Got 209x53. That's on a 13 inch widescreen, with OSX's nonremoveable menubar and other window dressing, Monaco 10 pt. Unless you've got a cumbersome IDE, is that really not good enough for coding on the go?

  35. Re:The griper is making an assumption... by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why does Bose spend their R&D budget on better speakers?

    Woah, when did Bose start doing that?

    --
    This guy's the limit!
  36. Re:13" MacBook Pro by krog · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Better check your quarterly financial reports.

    We're not talking about iPods and iPhones. Read: MacBook Air demand trails that of original Intel-based MacBook, with winners like:

    "The people that are interested in [the MacBook Air] are not interested in buying it," said one reseller. "MacBook Air is too expensive; it's kind of a niche market product," said another. Still others characterized the notebook as a travelers companion for "high income people," or a tool for "executives."


  37. Re:13" MacBook Pro by krog · · Score: 4, Informative

    I just posted a link above, reporting on the MB Air's shitty market performance to date. Here are a couple more.

    http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/02/12/resellers-say-macbook-air-sales-arent-as-brisk-as-original-macbook/
    http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/165960/macbook-air-sales-deflated.html

    I can't locate sales figures for the 12" PB G4, but I can state anecdotally that I saw many of them, with satisfied owners. A reasonably fierce following, too. Conversely, I have not seen a single MB Air nor do I know anyone, including all members of a Mac users' mailing list I am on, who owns one or even wants to. I don't think Apple chose the most profitable market segment here.

  38. Re:It matters! (anecdote) by coats · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Rumor has it that Google's programmers use dual 24-inch monitors--side by side, in portrait instead of landscape. That gives you 120-line edit windows easily, with room for multiple edit windows side-by-side. Btw, at the office are you running Linux or Windows? If the former, you can add a "virtual display" line to your xorg.conf file that will give you a bigger screen area that you can pan around in with your mouse. UI do a lot of very high res environmental modeling, so I use a *huge* 3200x2400virtual display. That part of my xorg.conf looks like:

    Section "Screen" Identifier "screen1" Device "device1" Monitor "monitor1" DefaultColorDepth 24 Subsection "Display"

    Depth 24 Modes "1920x1200" "1680x1050" "1600x1000" "1440x900" "1280x800" virtual 3200 2400
    EndSubsection
    Note that max virtual-display size is governed by your graphics card and its driver. But you should be able to get at least 2048x1536, anyway.

    And I don't recommend that large a virtual display for general-purpose use; things can get "lost" in the corners ;-(

    --
    "My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
  39. why not laptop KEYBOARDS for coders by zermous · · Score: 2, Interesting

    While we're on the topic, if we must have widescreen laptops, then why cant they use the extra horizontal keyboard real estate for a regular cursor control block (inverted T and pgup/pgdn etc in their normal correctly spaced and gapped positions)? I am sure some people swear by their regular numpad which has recently shown up on some widescreen laptops, but arent there at least as many people out there that spend all day editing text (and code) as there are folks that spend all day entering numbers?

    He who does it first will have my laptop kilobucks.

  40. Nothing wrong with widescreen with ROTATION by CarpetShark · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There's nothing wrong with widescreen. It's more suited to our eyes for watching movies, and it forces developers to consider how their app looks and feels when tiled on the screen and used in conjunction with other on-screen apps (ie, *gasp* multitasking) instead of being maximised all the time as if it where the only app.

    Widescreen is also great for developers, artists, designers, writers, and many other professionals, since you can rotate the screens and get a vertical, page-oriented layout.

    BUT, the problem is that rotation is rarely supported -- not on laptops, or on monitor stands. On graphics cards, it's "supported" usually, but without acceleration, which sucks. How hard can it be to rotate 90% before applying an operation on today's super-fast graphics cards?

  41. widescreen is ok by cpicon92 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If the resolution is high enough widescreen is fine by me, usually I just put my taskbars and docks on the left of the screen and i'm left with a 4:3 area for doing my work. The real issue for me is with the total crap laptop screens with 1280x800 resolutions where there isn't enough room to do anything like that. That said, i bought a Lenovo x61 a few months ago and I love it, the 12in isn't as small as it sounds, i can hardly tell the difference between this and a 15 in panel. Lenovo may reconsider their decision, seeing as the x61 and x61-tablet are their most popular products right now.

  42. We devs are never happy by Captain+Spam · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whining Dev: "Waaah! This 1280x1024 screen is too small! I can't see all my code on it!"
    Manufacturer: "All right, fine, here's a 1600x1200 screen."
    WD: "Wellll... okay, you live THIS time..."
    DVD Watcher: "Hey! Why can't I watch my DVDs in widescreen on my laptop?"
    M: "Fine, fine, here's a 1920x1200 screen."
    DW: "Yaaaaay! And my desktop looks so much bigger, too!"
    WD: "HEY HEY HEY! What the hell is this? My screen isn't tall enough now! I want more height so I can see more code!"
    M: "But... but that's the exact same screen height you used to have and just bugged for a few minutes ago. It's the width that's-"
    WD: "TALLER SCREEN NOW FOR I AM INCAPABLE OF RUNNING MY CODE EDITOR NOT-MAXIMIZED AND IT IS WHOLLY INCOMPREHENSIBLE FOR ME TO FIND OTHER USES FOR THE EXTRA WIDTH"
    M: *deep sigh*

    --
    Demanding constant attention will only lead to attention.
  43. get yourself a secondary widescreen monitor by BRUTICUS · · Score: 2, Interesting

    that can flip vertically like this:
    http://www.hardware.info/images/news/flexscan_s2031w_550.jpg

  44. Much ado about nothing by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm a developer. Widescreen also means longer lines of code before wrapping, so less vertical scrolling.

    I'm not all that put out, honestly. I've got a 1680x1050 widescreen on my laptop, and if it were 1600x1200 I'd get a few extra lines of text, but big deal. My previous favored resolution was 1280x1024, so I actually get more pixels in both dimensions.

    I can also watch 16:9 movies on it when I'm not coding, and I like that feature more.

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  45. If you care about vertical space then... by goombah99 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of my pet peeves about windows is that they layer the tool bars horizontally by default. They even use a menu bar per window.
    then they put the widow dock along the bottom along with all sorts of crap. this chews up vertical real estate.

    Most of the most poliched linux window managers make the same mistake. It's almost like you have to have virtual windows simply because they mismanage the screen realestate.

    DSL linux's default window manager is a notable exception, and is very parsimonious about its use of screen area, presumably because it expected to be used on small screens of older machines.

    Apple is better about saving screen real estate, since all windows share a single thin menu bar and the doc can be moved to vertical. Traditionally they use smaller icons and fewer of them so their toolbars usually are single width and thin (some notable exceptions however, like preview.app) Apple even puts the equivalent of tabs on the side of widows rather than the bottom (i.e. the window managers offer sidebars typically).

    So perhaps it is not a surprise that apple was an early adopter of widescreen.

    In my personal habits, I prefer widescreen because I feel like I can juggle more windows than with a vertical screen. But I get enraged when windows have all sorts of menu crap and tool bars that gobble my vertical screen realestate.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:If you care about vertical space then... by justthinkit · · Score: 2, Informative

      Vertical menus take more room. In this Opera window I have menu words of "File Edit View Bookmarks Widgets Feeds Tools Help". If I ran the menu vertically, the word "Bookmarks" would force the menu to take up at least 1" of window width. With the menu as it is, it has a width of maybe 3/8". I hear what you are saying about toolbars, and on my 1920x1200 Acer I minimize/consolidate those as well but top menus use less overall space -- hard to get around that without moving to Kanji.

      --
      I come here for the love
  46. Dual monitor support by PMuse · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Just think of widescreen as bonus. Your previous machine had a 4:3 area of 1024x768. Your new machine has a 4:3 area of 1066x800. Plus, it has a 213x800 sidebar. Why are you complaining about that?

    What you should be complaining about is the inability of Windows and many of the apps to negotiate a dual-monitor configuration.
    1. Will the dialog box appear (a) centered in monitor 1, (b) centered in monitor 2, or (c) split across them at the mean of the monitor 1 + monitor 2 coordinates?
    2. Got that figured out? OK, now swap the left-right positions of monitors 1 and 2 while the apps are running. Where will that dialog box show up now?
    3. If monitor 2 is removed, how will you get the apps being displayed there to redisplay themselves on monitor 1?


    It's long past time that Windows and its apps got some standards of behavior in the multi-monitor world.
    --
    "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals." --The American President (20.1.2009)
  47. Re:Wider Screen Tall Screen by swillden · · Score: 2, Informative

    In addition, long code statements won't fit on a narrow screen

    Two words: Line breaks

    They not only make your code fit better on a narrow screen, they also make it more readable. Also, if you're indenting so far that you need the horizontal space, you really should refactor -- your function is too complex.

    Although the old standard of 80 columns is no longer required for printing, it's still a pretty good idea.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  48. Simple solution by CODiNE · · Score: 3, Funny

    Put the laptop on it's side. Now you've got the tallest laptop screen in the coffee shop man. Everyone will be all "Ohhh is that the new Mac laptop I heard about?"

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  49. Developer who LIKES wide-screen by CharlieG · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a developer, and got my first wide screen display about 6 weeks ago. I'd never go back. Most of my routines are fairly short, but because I tend to use DESCRIPTIVE names for things, my lines tend to be LONG - I actually scroll a heck of a lot LESS with a wide screen

    --
    -- 73 de KG2V For the Children - RKBA! "You are what you do when it counts" - the Masso
  50. Slashdot optimized monitors by rjamestaylor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why kick against the goads of commerce and progress? Why complain about that which you cannot change? You are flotsam on the sea of technology...

    Besides, my MacBook is pretty and trendy and makes me look smart.

    Actually, I've come to like the wide-screen format for placing my IM buddy list on the left and OSX dock on the right. It works nicely. Code? Yeah, that's mainly what I look at all day. The center area for content and side areas for BS is the Slashdot model!

    Actually... that's the point. Since Slashdot began its been begging for a wide screen monitor. The OEMs are finally giving into the Slashdot imperator by providing Slashdot-optimized widescreen monitors!

    --
    -- @rjamestaylor on Ello
  51. Why can't we have it BOTH ways via rotation? by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Years ago, I remember the "Radius" monitors that were sold as higher-end displays for Apple Macs. They easily rotated the 4:3 aspect screen between a "portrait" and a "landscape" mode, and as I recall, the computer received a signal that it was rotated (mercury tilt sensor in the display, I guess?), so it would automatically flip the video signal to match it.

    Seems like that whole thing never really caught on though, and I don't see why not? I'd love to have a wide-screen notebook that would allow you to pull up on the display to extend it a few inches from the notebook, and then let the user rotate it to portrait mode to read full PDF pages at a time and so on.

    If that's too much to ask, at least I'd like to see more desktop LCDs supporting rotation. My Samsung Syncmaster 213T did this nicely, except you still had to tell the computer you rotated it afterwards. (Is it THAT much to ask to integrate some sort of rotation support with modern video cards, so a display being turned can tell the ATI or nVidia board you need to rotate the video display 90 degrees?)

  52. Consider Scrolling by stewbacca · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One thing to consider is that, as users, we've grown much more accustom to scrolling up and down, but scrolling left/right is still pretty awkward. Widescreen allows less left/right scrolling and keeps us scrolling the way we are used to (up/down).

  53. Re:Are you kidding me?? by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why are ACs allowed to post links anyway? That's just asking for abuse. IMHO, link posting should be limited to non-AC posters. ACs should be there for people to express their own opinion anonymously because of fear of repercussions, not provide links to other people's opinions. AC posts should be the exception, not the rule, and they should be a lot more limited than real account posts as a result.

    On the widescreen thing, non-widescreen laptops are going away because of people wanting to watch movies in the car or on airplanes or whatever. That's the only time I'd ever watch a movie on anything other than a large widescreen TV....

    --

    Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  54. Re:1680 by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I neverunderstood what's with this widescreen obsession. People watch DVDs on their laptops.

    Just because a few metrosexual stylists decided the newest fad was to have widescreen screens, vendors have thrown actual usability and requirements out of the window. Um, no they haven't.

    Text is harder to read when lines are too wide; browsers won't automatically columnize text (and it'd be kinda useless to do that); I don't need to have things side by side because I work in full screen; You're choosing to use it incorrectly.

    pictures and people accomodate better in 4:3 screens (and I don't know about theirs, but in my town, people is taller than wide) Not scenery. Not cars. Not... well do I reaaaally need to put down a list of things people take pictures of that you failed to include in your list?

    and most of all, the area of vision of our fucking human eyes is more similar to 4:3 than it is to that fucking stylist fad. Utterly, utterly, wrong. You (and the dipstick that modded your post up) really ought to head to Google and find out a few things like what the aspect ratio of the human eye is or how to make use of a windowing operating system.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  55. Re:1680 by JoshJ · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Why are you maximizing your browser? I have my Pidgin buddy list on the upper right, a terminal (partly covered by the browser) on the lower right, the browser taking up about 2/3 of the screen dead center, and my desktop icons are visible on the left.
    If I open another window (say a PDF reader or OO.org) it goes to the left of the browser, just wider than a page, so that it overlaps the browser somewhat.

    This idea that browsers should be maximized is a disease. Do your part to eradicate it.

  56. Re:1680 by geekboy642 · · Score: 2

    "perephriel (god why is Firefox's spellcheck so retarded?)"

    Peripheral. It's phonetic. \p-'ri-f(-)rl\. Don't blame the spell checker when the problem is clearly yours. Hell, Google knows what you mean by "perephriel", but that's only because Google's been filtering the sewers of humanity since it was switched on. If it ever goes sentient, we're all fucked.

    --
    Just another "DOJ fascist authoritarian totalitarian bootlicker" -- Zeio
  57. Re:1680 by orasio · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The golden section is a matter of the taste of the majority, at the very least. It doesnÂt matter for something _you_ get done for yourself. It matters for things we all use.

    Maybe I was not clear enough. I meant height as in physical height.
    What I meant is that your argument about real estate is not the only way of seeing it. You are complaining that the same laptop has less height.
    Maybe itÂs that the same laptop now is wider.
    A 4:3 14" laptop has 9.16 inches of height. A 16:9 15.4" laptop has 9.24 inches of height. The only difference is that you get 4 extra inches on the X axis. The same happens with 15" - 17"wide laptops.
    You could complain that it's heavier, of course.
    Even that is not true with current HP computers.
    You can't complain it's more expensive, because 15.4 laptops are the cheapest ones available for most manufacturers, cheaper than the equivalent 14.1 . It's not as they are charging you for the extra 4 inches.

    It's not a conspiracy to rob you of your pixels. It's a new standard that new tech makes available (now there are no CRTs we need to be similar to) and works for more people. And we like it.

  58. ugh! by rantingkitten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is that the "widescreen" displays being offered are, by and large, no more wide than were your old displays. That's what ticks me off the most. 1280x1024 was a decent resolution a couple of years ago. But then "widescreen" came out and, oh, what do we have?

    1280x900. Gee whiz, thanks! Since it's now clearly rectangular it's "wide", but all they really did was cut off one or two hundred pixels from your vertical rez. Exactly how did I benefit from this? Drives me absolutely insane. Finding laptops above 900 pixels vertical is quite a chore; I know, because I've spent quite a while pricing them out for work and I refuse to go below 1050.

    I like my 1680x1050 screens just fine, but they still don't compare to the 1600x1200 screens of yore, which are nearly impossible to find these days. Sacrificing 80 pixels in the horizontal to gain that kind of vertical resolution is fine by me.

    I realise everyone's needs and preferences are different, but I am so, so tired of manufacturers touting this OMFG WIDESCREEN garbage like it's the second coming, when in reality it's just as wide as it was before, and significantly less tall.

    --
    mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
  59. Best way to manage the space? by illama · · Score: 2, Interesting

    When I got my 1680x1050 wide screen laptop I thought it'd be great! I'd be able to have 2 apps on the screen at the same time, no problem. Right?

    I gave up on that. Is there an easy way in Windows to manage the space? Maximizing takes up the whole screen (go figure). Dragging and re-sizing every app I want to use is a pain.

    It's be really nice to be able to 'maximize' a window and it automatically take up half of the horizontal space. MS Word + Firefox would be great on the same screen.

    I dual boot, so multiple desktops in linux solves this problem nicely. The 'PowerTool' app for XP's multiple desktops is not good.

    Any suggestions?

  60. Re:Move to Widescreen by bluescreenbert · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What does HDTV (37" - 52"+ panels) to do with laptops (14" - 20" panels) ??? Have you compared the pixel size of a HDTV and a laptop? Economies of scale? That's to say motorbikes are now getting more expensive because more and more people by these 4-wheel vehicles called cars.

  61. Re:1680 by Dolda2000 · · Score: 2

    Why are you maximizing your browser? To fit more text on the screen? Is that a bad idea?

    I, on my hand, would like to question if you really need your buddy list constantly visible, or, for that matter, if you really need to constantly reserve space for a potential PDF document. Wouldn't it be better to use that space for the browser while you're not actively reading the PDF?