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Smartphone Battle Is Shaping Up As RIM Vs. Apple

TeknoFin notes a piece in the NYTimes on the fight RIM finds itself in as the smartphone market shifts to a consumer focus, impelled by the iPhone. For the last 10 years RIM has dominated a smartphone market consisting mainly of email-obsessed corporate professionals. Analysts wonder if RIM can hold on to their lead as their strengths — such as cozy relations with cell carriers worldwide — are diluted by new entrants Apple and Google, who are "vocally trying to dislodge the carriers from the nexus of the North American wireless market." One of RIM's strengths in the corporate market has been their security. Yet Apple executives have said that one-third of Fortune 500 companies were interested in giving iPhones — with all their known and potential security holes — to their employees.

43 of 261 comments (clear)

  1. The world is not the U.S. by mvdwege · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And again U.S.-centric media act as if the U.S. market is representative for the whole world.

    Here's a hint: RIM is only a player in push-mail smartphones. Worldwide, the major smartphone platform is Symbian. Apple may as well not exist in the world-wide market. I have seen a colleagues iPhone, and it is a nice little machine, but it is currently geared more for multimedia use than as a business smartphone. It will take Apple at least one more generation to actually become a threat to Symbians dominance of the marketplace.

    Of course, compared to the other bit players in the marketplace, if one company can pull off a landslide shift in marketshare, it will be Apple. It helps that they understand Marketing extremely well.

    Mart
    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    1. Re:The world is not the U.S. by furball · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What makes a smartphone suitable for business usage versus multimedia usage? What do business users need that's different than a non-business user?

    2. Re:The world is not the U.S. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Security, ability to install bespoke applications, secure VPN, secure wireless, exchange integration, ability to dial out on multiple numbers...

      Apple is trying to address some of these with firmware 2.0 but there's one key that businesses look for - the ability to negotiate very competative deals with the providers because they can play them off one another and get much lower than the published prices (one place I was at the mere threat of going elsewhere usually got them insanely good deals - that was a big contract). Apple has yet to address this, as there is currently nowhere else to go, and iphone is a monoculture.. if you port your apps to it you're stuck with it.

    3. Re:The world is not the U.S. by FishWithAHammer · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not a fan of the iPhone, but typing on it is extremely easy.

      --
      "You can either have software quality or you can have pointer arithmetic, but you cannot have both at the same time."
    4. Re:The world is not the U.S. by Nullav · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's a pain in the ass, at least as far as typing is concerned. I always find myself typing much slower when there's no tactile feedback to tell me I'm actually hitting keys. (I hate those laser keyboards.) If the iPhone just had a nice slide-out keyboard somewhere, almost all of my gripes with the iPhone would fade away.

      --
      I just read Slashdot for the articles.
    5. Re:The world is not the U.S. by mindslut · · Score: 2, Informative

      I use Blackberry/RIM as a corporate user, and have seen the iPhone in action a fair amount.

      I think the iPhone interface has a lot more potential, and should set the new standard. I think other business users are wondering why they can't have that quality iPhone interface - Blackberries fall short in terms of the information display corporate users often need.

      I agree with your point about Apple being that rare company that could pull off a landslide - having a better mousetrap (or the appearance of one - not sure what technical superiority Symbian and RIM may have) and having the rare ability to change the market's mind - could make for a lot of competitive innovation in smart phones. I think it is great and about time.

      Meanwhile, its RIM for me for now; not sure for how much longer.

    6. Re:The world is not the U.S. by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not sure what smartphone keypad you are talking about. I find the iPhone easier to type on that my Treo.... and i own a Treo.

    7. Re:The world is not the U.S. by ltrm · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Don't be so provincial.

      The article specifically mentions Steve Jobs' worldwide ambitions in the opening paragraph.

      So whether Slashdot is a US site or not is of no consequence here, the point still stands. Symbian is the dominant platform by considerable margin but still doesn't get a mention. Lazy journalism.

    8. Re:The world is not the U.S. by cthellis · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have extremely meaty thumbs, yet the FIRST time I picked up an iPhone I was typing away at 30-40 wpm while two-thumbing it.

      Admittedly I'm a fast typer normally (fast enough at least, at 80+), so am not hesitant in general, and I knew some of the shortcuts (like how to put a single punctuation mark in without having to tap-switch between the screens twice), but that doesn't change the fact that with no practice, trust in the auto-correction, and a hand completely "non-built" for it, I was moving along quite speedily.

      There is certainly room to improve, and most CERTAINLY configuration options Apple has to make available to actually deserve the "software keys++" marketing points they liked to promote, but it's starting on extremely solid ground, and I think will be plenty fast enough for almost anyone once they get used to it.

      Not sure how in the way fingernails get, though...

    9. Re:The world is not the U.S. by tabdelgawad · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My wife has an iPhone and I have a blackberry, so I speak from experience:

      Basically, I can't type on the iPhone in portrait mode. In landscape, I can usually peck my way using index fingers, either one handed holding the phone in the other hand, or two handed if a lay the phone on a surface. Typing with thumbs (the preferred method of all bberry users) is simply not possible. FWIW I have average size fingers (I think!).

      The iPhone is a wonderful piece of technology. It's easier to do almost everything on it except for the one thing that's essential for business use: type emails. As much as I'd love for my work to give me one for free, they'd have a revolt on their hands if they took away the blackberries.

      The iPhone will be a blackberry killer only when you can slide up the touch screen up to reveal a tactile keyboard. With Jobs' aversion to buttons, I don't see that happening any time soon!

      --
      Imposing Libertarian views on everyone online since 1992.
    10. Re:The world is not the U.S. by gtx · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I personally don't give a fuck about ringtones or cameras or the ability to play mp3s/videos/games on my phone. At all. My priorities, as a business-centric phone user, are in this order:

      1) Phone calls
      2) Email
      3) Web-browser (and that's expendable, I just like to be able to google things on the road.)

      Everything else is pretty much useless to me, whereas I can see where 17 year old girls want their phones to be toys more than anything else. Sure, my phone (blackberry 8830) doesn't have a camera on it, but damn if it doesn't have stable firmware which is made to do exactly what I want it to do with amazing consistency.

      Fuck multimedia. All I want is something to handle my email without a hiccup.

      --


      "I hope I don't make a mistake and manage to remain a virgin." - Britney Spears
    11. Re:The world is not the U.S. by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Nah, it's just that the cellphone market has been catering to 17-year-old girls.

      I'm a 19-year-old male, and all I want my phone to do is make calls and, just as importantly, receive calls. I have a laptop that does email, music (so does my iPod), video (so does my iPod), gaming, and document editing.

      Fuck expensive convergence devices. The iPhone is only really interesting because of its user interface.

    12. Re:The world is not the U.S. by LKM · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Basically, I can't type on the iPhone in portrait mode. In landscape, I can usually peck my way using index fingers, either one handed holding the phone in the other hand, or two handed if a lay the phone on a surface. Typing with thumbs (the preferred method of all bberry users) is simply not possible. I find that hard to believe. Do you attempt to spell correctly at first attempt, or do you use the iPhone's auto-correction? I have large hands, too, and while the iPhone often gets single letters wrong, it typically manages to figure out the word I was trying to write anyways. Perhaps you should try to stop worry about single wrong letters?
    13. Re:The world is not the U.S. by funkdancer · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here's a hint: RIM is only a player in push-mail smartphones. Thanks for clearing that up! As an Australian/Norwegian person, my first thoughts were... "what the hell is (a) RIM?".

      My second thought was, "what the hell is an iPhone?". Actually, that was mainly in jest, but you can't buy those non-3G things legitimately here --- and they're non-3G --- so why bother.

      (Yours Truly is patiently waiting for the N96 to be released so that I have a proper Symbian smartphone with an awesome camera, lots of storage and a 3G connection for my N810 tablet to bluetooth into.)
      --
      ISO certified == THX certified
    14. Re:The world is not the U.S. by mvdwege · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You just proved the point: the only thing the iPhone has over the competition is slick looks, in actual useful features it is below par. And you buy it as if it is a huge advantage. Given the context (business use), this is a prime example of someone drinking the Marketing Kool-Aid.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    15. Re:The world is not the U.S. by dintech · · Score: 2, Funny

      I find that after even moderate use, the keys start to get sticky.
      Nice to see someone is using their monthly data quota for something. :)
  2. iphones by perlchild · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The iphone, warts and all, appears to be an actual platform. It's actually usable. Every blackberry owner I've seen so far sees it as a mail client, there are very few third party apps and they're not widely known.

    The iphone will have third party apps(thanks to the controversy that it didn't) and people will know about them. I'd say that's a good reason to worry at RIM.

    I'll miss my palm when my company gets to me, but I hope they replace the blackberries they have with iphones, not force the blackberries onto us.

    1. Re:iphones by NMerriam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The iphone, warts and all, appears to be an actual platform. It's actually usable. Every blackberry owner I've seen so far sees it as a mail client, there are very few third party apps and they're not widely known.

      I think that's the key to the "battle". While RIM and Symbian are powerhouses from a corporate standpoint, they've never had the crossover attraction that Palm had and WinCE has to a lesser degree -- lots of useful third-party apps that make you want to carry it with you in your personal life, not just when your job tells you to.

      --
      Recursive: Adj. See Recursive.
    2. Re:iphones by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2, Informative

      Apples & oranges.

      You shouldn't compare programming in J2ME to the iPhone SDK, you should be using the Symbian API directly.

      J2ME is for when you want your app to run on non-Symbian phones.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
  3. Dont forget... by gigne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    HTC make plenty of excellent Smartphones. A lot of companies are giving their staff these Windows Mobile devices as they are cheap and have push email from an Exchange server.

    Not particularly a fan of Windows mobile, but it does the job well enough to make this a 3 horse race.

    --
    Signature v3.0, now with 42% less memory usage.
    1. Re:Dont forget... by donstenk72 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Your right. I see the occasional Blackberry and Windows Mobile nowadays in Italy, but the serious workhorse of choice seems to be Nokia E series and the communicator.

  4. New jobs by mistersooreams · · Score: 4, Funny

    So, with this expansion in the market, there should be a whole lot more RIM jobs available. Err, and Apple jobs. Obviously.

  5. And how did Aple arrive at this number? by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet Apple executives have said that one-third of Fortune 500 companies were interested in giving iPhones â" with all their known and potential security holes â" to their employees. My guess is that someone at Apple is either pulling this out of their arse, or it's from some sort of survey of Fortune 500 executives -- most of which, even the Cx0s (where x is in [IT]) -- have very little knowledge of IT in general.

    Most of their IT people -- those with real IT knowledge -- would be telling them "No, no. Bad plan. No internal central management, no internal patch management, doesn't fit our security model, bad, bad, bad!!!"
    1. Re:And how did Aple arrive at this number? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What they probably said was they'd consider trialling it, which is only fair. Give one or two employees them for a few days and if they come back to your office begging for their blackberries back you end the trial right there.

      I'm surprised the figure is so low - it means that 2/3rds of fortune 500 companies wouldn't even consider a trial.. and that's gotta hurt.

    2. Re:And how did Aple arrive at this number? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did anyone remember how "IT people with IT knowledge" forced migrations to Windows in min 90's, promising cheaper, better supported, homogenous solution despite users' outrage of the forced migration [a famous example was NASA Goddard SFC forced migration]?. The end result was sloppy insecure networks infested with malwares, a ballooning IT staff, more expensive solution despite cheaper initial cost, longer downtime, less productive users and so on. Now, I am not saying that all IT people are bad, but many of the so-called "IT people with real IT knowledge" only understood Windows and MSCE certified and did everything they could to stay on the job relying only on their Microsoft credentials.

      I am weary of any statement expounding on "IT people with real IT knowledge" because it normally means IT people with a singular expertise, most likely Windows. There has got to be a solution where there is a balance between IT people trying to protect users from their own selves, IT job security, the productivity of the users and the profitability of the company.

    3. Re:And how did Aple arrive at this number? by phillymjs · · Score: 4, Informative

      My guess is that someone at Apple is either pulling this out of their arse, or it's from some sort of survey of Fortune 500 executives

      Actually, it's from their quarterly earnings conference call last week. Apple reported that over one-third of the Fortune 500 has applied to Apple's iPhone 2.0 beta Enterprise program, along with over 400 higher-education institutions.

  6. What RIM and Apple? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    In the European market both RIM and Apple are almost non-existent, I'd guess they got fraction of a percent together. Nokia is who got the smart phone market share here, along with some smaller companies, like Ericsson. After all, a smart phone without 0.5 Mbps+ internet connection, preferably flat fee, sucks when browsing "web 2.0" sites. That's something neither Apple or RIM delivers right now.

  7. Quite happy with my HTC Titan by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yeah, it's a goofy name and it runs Windows Mobile but I've really taken a liking to it. EVDO kicks the shit out of EDGE (with RevA, I have clocked 1Mb/s) and built-in GPS is a real convenience. No push email, but you can have it query Exchange, IMAP or POP3 every 5 minutes if you like. The keyboard is also quite useful, IMO.

    More important than the hardware, however, is the huge library of 3rd party software that is written for WinMo. I've never been unable to find an application that does what I want. Add to it the fact that it's pretty easy to jump in and write your own code (C++ or C#, your choice) and it adds up to a very appealing package.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Titan

  8. Biasd and false by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 4, Informative
    Wow an article on /. with some misleading information! I'm so surprised.
    First let's look at the market share.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone

    Symbian 65%
    Windows Mobile 12%
    RIM BlackBerry 11%
    IPhone 7%
    Linux 5%

    Looks like TFA just picked a few from the bottom of the market share list for Q4 '07 and called them the new front runners!
    Kinda hard to discount WM with %12, and with Nvidia's new processor for WM (yes it plays quake 3) for mobile phones it's a shoe in as an IPhone killer. Apple keeps locking up their platform more and more: no browsers, music players, applications that run in the background, all because apple doesn't want competition on their phone.

    ----Digression---
    Didn't MS get sued for being a monopoly when it included a browser? Somthing you need if you want to get another browser or anything of the Internet (I guess you can use telnet). They didn't say "no browsers but ours" they just included it for free. Apple specifically states that you can't make a browser on their IPhone OS and everyone looks the other way? What a bunch of bias bullshit.----EODigression---

    I think it's way to early to say what "two" big players are going to be left, at this point it's obvious it's not going to just two, there are 4 or 5 or more and I doubt the "big" one's are going to be Apple and RIM, Apple doesnt care a rats ass about security (Safari accepts invalid 3rd party certs 100% of the time, and don't get me started on the IPhone itself.), and RIM's idea of 'PUSH EMAIL' is: "buy this $5000 software from us to give your email server "RIM PUSH EMAIL" and god help you if their racket of a service fails, not to mention their complete lack of hardware innovation in the last decade. IMHO Apple and RIM seem like the least promising.
    1. Re:Biasd and false by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Kinda hard to discount WM with %12

      I dunno, seems pretty easy to me when it's been out for YEARS, and the ten month-old iPhone already has more than half its marketshare.

    2. Re:Biasd and false by DurendalMac · · Score: 3, Informative

      Um, I use Safari, and if it gets a 3rd party cert it can't verify, then it will, by default, notify you and ask if you want to accept it or not. Second, the iPhone is a phone platform with a small percentage of the market, not an OS with over 90% of the market. On top of that, MS got their asses burned by threatening to cut off OEM licenses for anyone who tried to bundle Netscape with their computers. On top of THAT, back then a PC was about the only way you could browse the internet. Now you can do it on your phone, so there are other options and Apple is not trying to keep competitors out because competitors can easily set up browsers on many, many other devices. Try thinking about your argument before you splatter it on the screen.

    3. Re:Biasd and false by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I've thought about this argument for a long, long time and Apple locking certain software out because it directly competes with their software IS A BAD THING. If you think locking people out because you don't want to compete is good, then have fun with your IPhone.

      Um, I use Safari, and if it gets a 3rd party cert it can't verify, then it will, by default, notify you and ask if you want to accept it or not.


      I can make certs all day long on my own cert server and Safari will eat them up! Because the cert isn't issued from a ROOT CERTIFICATE PROVIDER, but rather issued by me, the cert is INVALID as far as confirming the identity of the host! Safari doesn't even have a list of root certificate providers! So in safari when it says "HTTPS" and the cert was issued by "CRACKS.AM" it will look the same as the "HTTPS" when its issued by verisign! Now if this goes over your head, maybe you should read up on it a bit, but don't tell me I'm wrong.

    4. Re:Biasd and false by Coolhand2120 · · Score: 2

      The argument is not if the cypher is secure, it's if the person you're talking to is whom they claim to be.

      The whole point of a verified cert is to verify the person with whom you are buying something from can be held accountable for their website's claims. The verification process has different levels, the lowest requiring a active phone number, the highest requiring a tax license and a notarized document from an attorney authenticating your claim to the online business with active fax/mail/email and a valid business licence in the state where you claim to do business. THAT is why it's so VERY important to have a VALID root certificate from a ROOT CERTIFIER! But if root certificates are sooo unimportant why would they exist at all? Why do certs cost money? What's with the authentication process? Why go through all that hassle if you could just make a cert on your own server?

      It's about trust, just because you have a cert doesn't mean I should trust you, but if Thawt says you are trustworthy (you passed their authentication process) then I can trust that you will at least return my phone calls. It's about trust: Certificate authority read this and find out WHY people use certificate authorities and WHY every browser, with the exception of safari, relies on root certification lists. Safari's security relies on the user knowing who issues trustworthy certs and who's are just bogus. I can make a cert, I use them internally, but externally I would be laughed at if I made my own cert..

      MORE PROOF?!

      Every single retail web site uses a trusted certificate authority. Why would they do that? They cost a lot of money. Were they not technically savvy enough to make a cert on their own? Or maybe the chain of trust means something.

  9. Different solutions for different applications by lohphat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason RIM has the business market is that they have features which mate it scalable for the enterprise, every other player hasn't matched features for that target market.

    The ability to brick lost phones, encrypt contents, apply IT security profiles, provision remotely over the air, sync to the server to make the hand-held expendable, data modem for the laptop, etc. And there are apps for the BB for many major ERP and sales tools. The key business integrations for the road warrior are already there.

    I think the iPhone et al are cool as a *personal* tool/toy but more often than not, they don't scale into a company where protection of IP and low TCO are mandated. For your personal use, you can absorb all the geekiness you want because the support required starts and ends with yourself.

    Try to deploy 1000 iPhones in a company and you're going to hemorrhage money.

    RIM isn't as sexy but it's a stable, known, scalable, and for the most part, secure solution.

    1. Re:Different solutions for different applications by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 2, Informative

      The ability to brick lost phones, encrypt contents, apply IT security profiles, provision remotely over the air, sync to the server to make the hand-held expendable, data modem for the laptop, etc. I believe that Windows Mobile 6 can do all of those things except the first. Of course, if you want Exchange sync you'll have to pay for enough Exchange licenses but that expensive option looks pretty frugal compared to RIM's exorbitant service. OTA provisioning, fine-grained control over allowed executables, encryptions, tethering are all there (and can all be pushed).

      I'm not trying to diss Blackberry (never used one, so that would be quite foolish), just noticed that you listed a lot of features that I know WinMo has as being critical for the warrior. It is true that all the road warriors that I know do use BBs but I don't know if that's because of their IT dept, disappointment (WinMo 5 was not acceptable) or whatever else actually animates IT decisions.

      True story: I flew next to a guy that had a BB and a RAZR that seemed to think it was perfectly normal to have them be two separate devices. He fell asleep before I could interrogate him further . . .
    2. Re:Different solutions for different applications by Kleen13 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I couldn't agree more. I was "forced" to integrate a BES server into our org and I was Very Reluctant to do so. I went from a active x toolbar applet to support 1 phone (ok, so I had to pull off some firewall magic) to a full blown server app, to support now 2 phones. As soon as I added the users and saw that I could brick the phones in aboot 12 seconds flat, I was sold. Sure, $100 per CAL is a bit much, but it's not in MY budget, and I can control it from home. Oh ya, I have since added many more phones, and switched servers BES was running on with about 7-10 min of downtime. Might as well not even told them I was bringing it down to switch. As I said, I'm sold.

      --
      That sinking feeling deep in your gut when you KNOW you screwed up bad summed up with: {head desk} {head desk}
  10. Not entirely true by goldcd · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Recent versions of Windows mobile support push from your exchange server - and once it's got a reasonable UI stuck over the top of the god-awful defaults - it makes quite a nice phone. Reason Blackberries have taken off is that they're well and truly owned by the employer. I can't a VPN token out of my employers for love nor money for my phone. They like Blackberries and if I want my email on the go, that's what I get. They give me a stitched up Blackberry (I can't fiddle with the settings to even add another email account) and it wil securely give me my office mail and that's about it. In fact that's the reason I think they've done so well, it's an appliance first and foremost (not a new toy I'd actually want - like an iphone).

  11. Blackberry? WHO? by SirJorgelOfBorgel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Blackberry... who?

    "For the last 10 years RIM has dominated the smartphone market" ... right. Blackberry has never, and will never, dominate any smartphone market whatsoever.

    Symbian is #1 in users, and Windows Mobile is #1 in usability. Blackberry is a closed system and will ultimately completely fail. So will the iPhone, by the way, aside from a personal(!!) gadget.

    It's virtually impossible to develop anything for the Blackberry. Add to that thats it's features are insanely expensive compared to the alternatives. It's only somewhat big in the US. Sure nowadays you can get Blackberry in Europe, but seriously, who other than an easily duped executive would ever order it?

    Your average Symbian or Windows Mobile device is way more compatible with existing infrastructure, costs a fraction of a Blackberry (with the latter mostly being insane subscription costs, at least over here).

    But what is most important - customizibility. There are almost an infinite number of apps available for Symbian and Windows Mobile (and as a developer, and I hate to say it, Windows Mobile easily has my preference). Your company needs something not 100% the standard package? You just call somebody with the knowledge and get it tailored to your needs.

    Virtually anything you want to do is possible. That's the power. Some times, it can also be a drawback, but usually it's a power.

    As for the iPhone, same shit different day. It's closed (enough to be called closed). They want to exert control. You'll always be a step behind that way. Even if your interface is shiny, what can it actually do? Forgive me for laughing at everybody who ever bought an iPhone, but WTH, no 3G ? For what it's supposed to do as a device, it's somewhat comparable to buying a black and white flatscreen 42". It may mean nothing to a non-techy, but I'm sure we can all agree iPhone is not a business device.

    I remember going to a conference once, about 3 years ago, here in Europe, where there was also a seminar on Blackberry. The spokespeople were very enthousiastic about it. Feature this, feature that. Most of the audience was completely unimpressed. Our phones already do that. RIM may have fooled you Americans, but they offer very little extra. They may have some extra technical management stuff, but all of that will be in the next WM (and probably Symbian, too) release, and they only have it at the cost of using the device how you want it to be used.

    1. Re:Blackberry? WHO? by shmlco · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just an FYI, but about 95% of my iPhone internet/email use occurs at work, home, or in a couple of local restaurants... ALL of which are WiFi enabled. So while EDGE is a bit pokey elsewhere, by and large it doesn't matter, because event though 3G beats EDGE, WiFi beats 3G.

      "Windows Mobile is #1 in usability."

      (ROTFLMAO) How in the world did you manage to say that with a straight face?

      "There are almost an infinite number of apps available for Symbian and Windows Mobile ..."

      Yeah, but how many file managers and to do lists do you really need?

      "Even if your interface is shiny, what can it actually do?"

      Other than be a phone, web browser, email system, iPod, video iPod, SMS system, camera, photo album, clock, calendar, and so on and so forth? I guess you haven't seen what's coming via the SDK, have you?

      "...m sure we can all agree iPhone is not a business device."

      Well, since I use it for that purpose, no, we can't.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:Blackberry? WHO? by gtx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Blackberry has 11% of the global market even though 3/4 of its users are in North America. Windows Mobile has 12% of the global market and its users are fucking everywhere.

      As a result, Blackberry dominates the North American smartphone market.

      You may find this to be in direct conflict to your statement "Blackberry has never, and will never, dominate any smartphone market whatsoever."

      Your post is a whole bunch of nonsense. Yes, Symbian has market dominance outside of North America. However, even by your own admission, "They may have some extra technical management stuff, but all of that will be in the next WM (and probably Symbian, too) release"

      Have you ever considered that the cost of using Blackberry is worth it to some companies so that they can have these features right now on hardware that isn't a goddamned toy?

      So please spare us your elitist bullshit. I don't give a good goddamn if you're from Europe or if you have the best smartphones over there. This doesn't make any difference if you don't have any goddamned clue what you're talking about.

      --


      "I hope I don't make a mistake and manage to remain a virgin." - Britney Spears
    3. Re:Blackberry? WHO? by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You had me until you said you laughed at everyone who bought the iPhone without it having 3G.

      I bought the iPhone, and yes disappointed it didn't have 3G support, but this is a 1st gen product from Apple and I could forgive them for not having EVERYTHING they wanted to have for their 1st gen launch.

      Was it they didn't want to deliver 3G? I doubt it.
      I think it was time and moeny for development + possible licensing costs from AT&T and other carriers for the tech to use the network.

      Makes sense to see if you have another Apple Cube o your hands before making further investments.

      Everyone seems convinced that 3G will be in iPhone v2.
      And I am quite certain of that, especially with the iTunes Music Store integration.

      So laugh all you want at people like me who bought a product THEY could use today even though it didn't have everything YOU wanted. Personally, I am extremely happy with the iPhone, and plan on buying the 2nd version as soon as it comes out.

      And as far as it not being a business device, I have to disagree. I do far more business on my iPhone than any other phone and find it truly adds to my productivity without taking up all my time. Granted, there are some features I think their mail client really needs, but once again, it's a 1st gen product.

      But what it really provides me more than anything else is compactness, utility and versatility that no other device has yet to provide. Until the iPhone, I had two gadgets with me at all times: cell and iPod. Those are now just 1. And I'm positive that iPhone v2 will encroach upon the need for secondary gadgets such as digicam and low end digital video camera and GPS unit.

      So laugh all you want, but at least be fair enough to realize that everyone isn't like you, and you may very well be someone that the iPhone just isn't for. But that doesn't mean it's crap or the people buying it idiots. However your attitude makes you seem a bit biased and closed minded in thinking... which can indicate lesser ability to comprehend and accept change. But that doesn't mean you lack that ability.

  12. But only wiht AT&T by hal9000(jr) · · Score: 3, Insightful

    My biggest gripe with the iPhone is that it runs only on AT&T and I am not going to plunk down my cold, hard cash to buy an iPhone, just to hack it for other networks.

    You can get BB and Treo's for nearly all providers.

  13. Only 45 minutes with iPhone? *That's* the problem by KH2002 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...when I first tried the iPhone for around 45 minutes I was really not impressed [with the keyboard]. 45 minutes? That's the problem. It takes 2-3 days to get used to it. Those 2-3 days make a huge difference, and if you haven't spent that time, you won't know what the iPhone keyboard is capable of...