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First Psystar Mac Clones Ship
An anonymous reader writes "According to Gizmodo, Psystar has begun shipping its Macintosh clones, thus proving that the company is not a hoax. Initial impressions seem to be positive, though Software Update does not work."
I think that honestly if Software Update doesn't work, the machine can't be considered to be a successful model. If you downloaded windows or Linux and could never update, would you consider it a successful install?
Looks like a noisy piece of crap PC, but if it goads Apple into releasing something with a similar form factor, then I'm all for it.
I'm waiting for Apple's lawyers to arrive with the attitude of a school of hungry piranha any time now...
Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
Score: -1 100% Flamebait
Damn. Should have read the article.
Yikes! Who brought the vacuum cleaner to the party! Wow, that video is loud!
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
They shipped. Thats only step one though. Next, they have to function just as well as a real Mac, which according to the article isn't quite right.
Plus, they have another hurdle - Apple C&D letters should be rolling in by now, if they haven't already.
It should be an interesting court battle. Yet another challenge for intellectual property in relation to software. Lets hope this one goes the way be all want.
Am I the only one who thinks it would be hilarious if every model they shipped out contained a faulty motherboard, with signals rerouted to hide the fact everything is running from a Mac Mini stashed in the "powersupply"?
That would be great.
I've got to say, for a scam they are really committed.
At first, I thought this was all interesting and going to have an interesting legal battle attached to it. Then it was clear this was a scam and there would be no fun to watch. Now I'm starting to wonder if I'll get to see the legal fight after all. Maybe it's not a scam?
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
Annoying over-used buzzwords aside, my guess is that the update situation on these will be just like other hackintosh setups, where you can update, but you have to obtain a hacked update installer, or go through a very manual process to do it.
My original hackintosh setup for example was running 10.4.8 and couldn't use software updates, but I was able to move it over to 10.4.10 eventually (though I'm now running on 10.5.1).
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
That movie can be extremely easy to create, it's probably a fake.
He films the normal PC in the back with the cable and so on, everything is fine...
When the turns to the front of the screen someone takes out the VGA cable, puts it in a display switcher or something, while the monitor is still turned off, and connects a Mac laptop to that display switch.
Then the dude turns on the PC, starts recording the screen, waits until the windows starts showing and the other guy switches the signal to the laptop. This was his hand with the camera remains in the same position and it's easy to cut out the transition.. especially since the eyes of the people are focused on the flash where the mac screen is shown.
So the movie for me it says nothing, it can be so easily faked i could do it myself if i had a fake.
The motherboard is also a Gigabyte based on the "setup-q-flash" message shown on the screen... i don't know if gigabyte would agree to make a Mac clone...
Just my two cents
That way if I need to reinstall, which does happen now and then, I don't need to download again.
There's no serial number check on manual downloads, but I expect that soon we'll be seeing the Apple version of Windows Genuine Advantage.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
Surely it would have been easier just to buy one and find out, rather than to go to all that effort?
which is totally what she said
Here's the relevant EULA excerpt: "You agree not to install, use or run the Apple Software on any non-Apple-labeled computer, or to enable others to do so."
Part of the hardcore faithful who believed in Apple long before it was cool again to do so
Of course, guilty until proven not to be. Good show!
On what grounds? Psystar is installing a retail boxed product of MacOS X on Psystar hardware. There's no copyright violation, so none of the extreme remedies in the Copyright Act apply. Any legal restriction Apple seeks to impose that their software can only be run on their hardware runs afoul of "tying" restrictions in antitrust law. Apple would have to win an antitrust case before they could get a cease and desist order.
What we'll probably see is heavily restrictive DRM in future Macs to prevent this. Or an end to retail sales of MacOS.
LOL. My Hackintosh supports software updates from Apple. Can't they at least install PC EFI? They're a fuckin integrator, they could BUY EFI boards. Morons.
Making laws based on opinions that stem up from false informations leads to witch hunts.
Innocent until proven guilty is (was? seems to be out of fashion these days) a necessary legal concept.
However, for consumers, it is a very dangerous approach when dealing with questionable businesses. Caveat emptor and all that.
I have to wonder why they have not tried to get a preliminary injunction to halt shipment pending legal matters. They probably could get that fairly easily.
They're probably weighing it against the possibility of having their "you can only install the copy of OS X you bought onto our list of blessed hardware" clause in the OS X EULA ruled invalid.
Admit we where wrong? This is Slashdot, where baseless inflammatory accusations are NEVER wrong!!!!
Technology is most abused by the very people it was created to help
But will it blend?
You sure about the sober thing? I find Apple's visual effects much more entertaining when I'm not sober.
Your ad here.
I think I just heard the sound of an iChair being thrown against a wall....
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
That's easy:
Girlfriend looked at new computer. "That's not a Mac," she commented.
Later that night, while asleep on the couch, he dreamed of marketing slogans.
"Hi, I'm a Mac" "and I am a PC" "YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR and I be a MacCLone!" (the Mac guy wearing a pirate outfit).
I've already saved myself the trouble of doing either by buying a Mac Mini and installing it inside a loud PC case with crazy glue.
Oh wait...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
As others have pointed out, the obvious way around this clause in the EULA is to label the computer: Apple.
Most consumers simply don't need or want what you want.
First, I distinguished between "need" and "want". The desires you chose to ridicule were not in the "needs". You didn't ask what our "needs" were, you asked what we would do with expandability. If you asked "what do you need expandability for" you'd get a different answer.
So once you eliminate that straw man, what I need is an adequate GPU, an adequate hard drive, and no integrated display... and a consumer price. Maybe 40% over what Psystar is asking for their box? That would give Apple their usual markup.
The argument that "most consumers don't need" those features is a bit circular, since they're not available from Apple and haven't been available from Apple at a consumer price since Steve Jobs took over. On the other hand, they *are* available from Wintel box shippers, and most consumers are still buying Wintel boxes.
Don't assume you know all the reasons why they do that. I know I'm regularly surprised by people's answers to why they still use Windows after they express desire for my desktop.
And do consider that you'll never find out if you just ask Mac users, because that's a sample that's pre-selected to only include people for whom the current line of Macs is at least minimally acceptable.
BUT, Apple is still being paid for their OS, which is the only item that many people are interested in. Their EULA says that you can only install it on their hardware, but it's a clause that is QUITE likely to be shot down in court.
As to "profiting off someone else's work", EVERYBODY does that to some extent. ISP's are "profiting" off of Google, Ebay, etc because people buy internet access because of those items. Gas stations are profiting off of car manufaturers because they supply fuel for something that someone else made. Paper companies profit from fax/copier manufacturers because they generate a need for their product.
The bottom line is that Apple sells an operating system. They have a legally questionable clause in there stating that when you buy it you can't install it except on computers that they deem appropriate (namely, ones they made themselves). If that clause is successfully shot down, things will likely return to a semblance of fairness: people who purchase software from a company can install it wherever and on whatever they want to.
I mean seriously: if Microsoft came out with EULA stipulations tomorrow that stated that regardless of how well it worked, you couldn't install MS Office (even a legally purchased copy) on a WINE-equipped Linux machine, Slashdot would shit a jagged brick coated in hot sauce. Apple does the same though and it's reasonable behavior.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I just had to add a hard disk for Mac OS X and some more ram (upped to 4GB or corsair 800 mhz) and off I went. I used a Gigabyte P35-DS3L and a Core 2 Duo e6750 processor, evga Nvidia 8800 GT graphics for the gaming rig and the Kalyway installer to put it on the new 500 GB western digital hard disk.
It is fast fast fast fast fast.
Only few things I have to put up with.
1. You have to turn on AHCI in the BIOS or you will kernel panic randomly. This makes the machine sit for about 20-30 seconds probing SATA ports and whatnot until it finally launches into the OS bootloader. This is a bios/board problem, not an OS X problem. Annoying at worst.
2. Machine will sleep (using kernel patch) but upon wake, I have to manually assign an IP then go back to DHCP to get the machine to go back online.
3. If I boot into windows and want to go back to Mac OS, I have to turn off the computer, unplug it and wait 15 seconds before plugging in and starting back up. If I don't, after the white screen with the apple, the graphics card will shut down and I can't see. Must be some flag in the card or board that windows sets that the drivers I'm using isn't resetting.
4. Switching resolution can cause a blue screen where you can't see anything. Rebooting will take care of it.
5. Some 3D apps won't work. Second Life is one example.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
These aren't clones. They're Hackintoshes done for you and then shipped out. The OS isn't legit, iLife isn't legit, and you're dumping entirely too much money on the hardware that they're shipping out as there's no software cost at all.
I've got to wonder why Software Update isn't working on them, even though they've admitted to using the EFI loader hack. In my experience, only OS updates (ie 10.5.1->10.5.2) are potentially dangerous anymore, and I managed to update from 10.5.1 to 10.5.2 without issue on an oldish Shuttle AMD barebones box here after patching EFI/Vanilla kernel.
It's almost trivial to get a vanilla kernel up & running on an Intel hackintosh now, only slightly more difficult on an AMD box -- there are even several quite good pre-packaged installers now with 10.5.2 that do everything for you if you don't like to get your hands dirty.
All that said, it's going to be funny when all of the people duped into buying these can't update to 10.5.4 or whatever and end up with a bricked box. At least if you do it yourself, you develop the skillset to boot into single user mode, disable kexts, remove caches etc.
Maintaining a functioning, stable, up-to-date Hackintosh (with Quartz Extreme running properly etc) is a lot like keeping a '60s Volkswagen running. Not particularly difficult, but you build up the skills over time and it takes quite a bit of patience. I think there are going to be a lot of pissed off people once they realize what they've bought into.
I still find it amusing that so many people think that if you put OSX on a OC you'll get the same experience as you do on Mac hardware... You folks know that if Mac ran on anything it would be just a buggy and fucked up as windows right? The only reason it runs smoothly now is because Apple controls the hardware. The day you can run it on any machine in the world will be the day that Mac zealots finally shut the fuck up about how superior their shit ass OS is. The world will one day learn that Linux is the true way through. Until then clever marketing will sell hunks of shit, and create a cult around them. iFag.
In other words, it's not a hoax, but it is an ineptly implemented, poorly supported, piece of crap. That will show all the naysayers!</sarcasm>
This whole episode is a reminder of Hanson's Law: Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity!
All $399 gets you (or $999 for the "Pro" version) is a box full of generic PC components that are known to be more or less compatible with OSX. No monitor, no keyboard or mouse and *NO OPERATING SYSTEM*. An installed copy of OSX will cost you an extra $150. Since a genuine Apple Mac is really just a PC running OSX, it would make no sense for someone to buy a "Mac Clone" without OSX so I'm figuring that almost all the units Psystar sells will probably have OSX on them.
Does Psystar's installation of OSX violate Apple's EULA? Is Apple's EULA even legal? I have no idea, but Psystar is not the company who is going to spend millions slugging it out in court trying to get Apple's EULA declared invalid. This is a Fly-By-Night operation and Psystar's behaviour so far -- from the constantly changing addresses to the questionable background of its owners to the fact that they have built their entire business model on selling freely available OSX hacks -- tells me exactly what is going to happen next:
When Apple Apple sues -- and make no mistake, they will sue -- Psystar will fold and disappear. That's been the Psystar game plan all along. Take as many orders and collect as much money as possible before they get shut down. And if you happen to be one of the people waiting for delivery when Apple's lawyers attack, well, it sucks to be you.
That is just a hypothesis (granted it's a very plausible and reasonable one). OSX already does run on a variety of hardware -- just not as big a variety as Windows. While you probably can't run OSX on just any PC, you could probably spec a system out for it specifically (as Psystar has apparently done). The most interesting thing about this company might be that it is a chance to see the hypothesis tested. Linux users are already quite willing to accept hardware limitations to avoid OS instability.
Prov 9:8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you; rebuke the wise and they will love you.
let us know how installing 4-6 desktop SATA drives and a PCI express video card goes, will ya?
most people interested in this dont want a cheap mac, they want an expandable mac that isnt complete overkill (like he Mac Pro). The number of people who'd install extra hard drives or replace their graphics card easily outnumber the number of people who can actually make use of 8 cores and dual sockets. the Mac Pro may be fan-fucking-tastic value for what it is, but its baseline configuration is ridiculously overspeced for the user who just wants a second internal hdd or an 8800 for bootcamp gaming
TIAEAE!
The article notes that it comes with Leopard installed but that YOU CANNOT REINSTALL it yourself from a leopard CD (Which comes with it). (and you presumably cannot install Lion or whatever the next OS is) So if You want to run mac OS then you have to pay them to install Mac OS of $150. it also lacks firewire, blue tooth, and wifi. They will add Firewire for $50.
Shipping is another $50 (macs ship free).
so the total price is $609 without wifi or blue tooth. compared to $599 for the mac. The cpu is a bit faster, the disk is bigger and faster.
You can buy the mac at macmall where they will upgrade your memory and and give you a "free" printer for the same price (provided you can stomach the "rebate" spanking machine).
so basically a mac is cheaper, smaller and quieter. Not to mention the mac comes with software updates and you can re-install the software.
----
the psystar's big brother, actually is cost competitive with the powermac however.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
no matter how you configure it it still has a quad core xeon processor and buffered ECC memory which is overkill for most, and hideously overpriced compared to the consumer grade equivalents.
lets just say that the cheapest configured mac pro with edu discount is $2k (it's more, but lets stick with round numbers), and lets say that the psystar clone is $500 (it's less, but again round numbers). I can handle paying an apple premium, sometimes as much as 30-40% extra for the exact same components because it's from apple, but 300% extra is pushing it a little far. what's that I hear? the specs arent comparable? that's exactly my point. dont want or need a mac pro, it's complete overkill when I just want a graphics card and an extra internal drive. I'd be completely happy with an expandable mini
TIAEAE!