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Smithsonian Gets Military UAVs

NetworkWorld is reporting that a new exhibit at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum is featuring some of the military's more prominent UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles). In addition to the vehicles themselves, a large number of supporting technologies are also on display. "Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) are used by all four military branches for missions ranging from reconnaissance and surveillance to attack and each branch is represented in this exhibit: Predator, DarkStar, X-45A (Air Force); Shadow 200 (Army); Dragon Eye (Marine Corps); and Pioneer (Navy)."

148 comments

  1. Slashdot on a military roll by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's funny that this is the second story on Slashdot in a row about military technology. For me, this shows an interesting dichotomy in how military issues are treated here. On one hand, us nerds show certain tendencies to pacifism, especially with the current war in Iraq. War, in a Star Trek sense, is often seen as belonging to a backward age of Man. On the other hand, among the nerd community there has always been an admiration of military technological advances and the efficiency of military organization. Look at the long popularity of Heinlein's Starship Troopers , for example.

    1. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Although war is bad (though, depending on your viewpoint, a necessary evil), some of the tools of war (UAVs, etc) are engineering marvels. An example would be the SR-71 blackbird.

    2. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by jd · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That tends to be because the military get substantial funding for research and for recruiting the best minds. If the US Government put a trillion or so a year into civilian road car development, Slashdot would look more like Automart. Likewise, if they boosted Linux development by that amount, you'd be able to download it as a neural implant by now. The reason development accelerates in wartime is because Governments underfund research whenever possible, but the military (as much as I distrust them) have a much better grasp of the importance of such work.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    3. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are plenty of "us nerds" that are far from being pacifists.
      Pacifism is fine in Moms basement. It equals "surrender" everywhere else, because it is only effective against people who aren't serious in the first place.

      "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms."
                          Robert Anson Heinlein

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    4. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by JacobSphinx · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      War is just man being territorial, just like all the other beasts in nature. If a male lion enters another male lion's domain he will be expelled with excessive force. Animals make war just as much as men, if not more. The major difference is animals are just a lot less efficient at it and a lot more open. Business is war too, fighting over the territory of another, leaving hundreds of thousands without jobs, a crashed economy or any number of other problems.

      The main problem with the US currently is that it sees the entire world as its territory. If oil exists, we own it. We may use business to own it, or we may use destruction to own it but both are just tools for defending our domain and capturing the domains of others. Nerds, who have a much higher intelligence on average, should understand this more than the common man. War is just a part of nature. You can't eradicate it. You can only filter it through a new medium (i.e. business).

    5. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by ArmyOfFun · · Score: 5, Funny

      As with most things, The Onion has already tapped this comedy vein:
      Peace Activist Has To Admit Barrett .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Is Pretty Cool

    6. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The reason you have your beloved Internet is because of military technology. Most good stuff comes from the military. And porn.

    7. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Alinabi · · Score: 1

      Pacifism [...] is only effective against people who aren't serious in the first place. Like the British Empire, for example.
      --
      "You can't allow somebody to commit the crime before you detain them." [Condoleezza Rice]
    8. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The Nazis would have steamrolled Gandhi.

    9. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by PitaBred · · Score: 1

      Let's see... the military finances a lot of neat techie things (ARPANET, Satellites, etc.), this is a blog about new techie things... is it really hard to make that connection?

    10. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, the military gets the money to buy the toys; if we moved, say, 20% of the military tech budget into space exploration, that would be a lot sexier right now.

      This is one of the things the general public doesn't understand about nerds/geeks/whatever you call people who are defined by enthusiasms for difficult to understand things. Geeks differentiate between the utility of things as objects of study, and their intended utility, as any computer security researcher would tell you.

      So just because you are fascinated by things that go boom doesn't mean you want to see them used on people. In fact, it's only idiots who like to play with explosives. The geek aspect of the game is doing things that would be stupid for other people, but not for you because you know exactly what is safe and what is not.

      As far as geek militarism/pacifism goes, it seems to follow a pendulum like with everyone else, with the geeks being a bit ahead of the curve. You wouldn't be a geek exactly if your way of looking at things made you fit in.

      Geeks are just smarter than the average populace. They aren't necessarily wiser. The very basis of wisdom is accepting that you might be wrong. Some people are so good at arguing and so used to being more right than their neighbor that they never have to confront their own fallibility. So geeks can represent both the best and worst humanity has to offer, the most enlightened viewpoints and the most stubbornly insular.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    11. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by VoltCurve · · Score: 0

      ha. If the brits were serious, India would still be a territory of their "Empire" They weren't.

    12. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by LandDolphin · · Score: 1

      Ahh yes, Sex and Violence, the driving force of the world.

      --
      Spelling and Grammar errors have been added to this post for your enjoyment
    13. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Charcharodon · · Score: 2, Funny
      On one hand, us nerds show certain tendencies to pacifism, especially with the current war in Iraq. War, in a Star Trek sense, is often seen as belonging to a backward age of Man.

      Haha that reminds of a song!

      Star Trek'n

      Captain James T. Kirk

      "We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, We come in peace, shoot to kill, Scotty beam me up!"

      If you mean nerd as in a WOW/ART/Music/Myspace Nerd, then yes I might agree with you. They are typically a notch or two on the evolutionary scale above Dirty Hippy, which as we all know is the lowest know species of man. They tend to be pacifistic in nature due to miss-informed biased world view based on You-Tube and blogs rather than a more practical & more accurate hands on, been there, looked at it with my own two eyes life experience.

      On the other hand if you mean Nerd as in an engineering student (the highest form of life) then you are WAY off base.

      An engineering nerd can appreciate the cold unfeeling efficiency of high-tech death as well as a society that doesn't reward pacfism. Hell if you didn't get that from reading Star Ship troopers then you can't hardly call yourself a proper nerd.

      If President Bush had read ST and been a proper Nerd, we wouldn't be still fucking around with Iraq, Iran, and N. Korea.

      This is how it would have played out if he had.

      9/11 they fucked with us

      10/11 President declares the Axis of Evil must be delt with.

      10/12 we drop a nuke on Iraq
      10/13 we drop a nuke on Iran
      10/14 we drop a nuke on N. Korea
      10/15 France protests
      10/16 we drop a nuke on France, they retract their protest

      1 month later we find out Bin Laden did it and that he is hiding in Pakistan

      We demand they catch him and extradite him to the US....or else.

      24 hours later Pakistan delivers up Osama Bid Laden

      24 hours after that we nuke Pakistan for dragging their feet.

      The UN becomes much less "whinny" for some odd reason.

    14. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by R2.0 · · Score: 3, Funny

      "Well, the military gets the money to buy the toys; if we moved, say, 20% of the military tech budget into space exploration, that would be a lot sexier right now."

      Social Security took up 20.2% of the 2007 federal budget. Defense took up 19%. By your logic, most geeks would be turned on by granny porn.

      Not that there's anything wrong with that...

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    15. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Ahh yes, Sex and Violence, the driving force of the world.

      You forgot Rock & Roll.

    16. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      While I'm not sure if we'd drop the nuke on France, given than in Starship Troopers they had nuclear hand grenades, most of the rest makes sense.

      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    17. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by street+struttin' · · Score: 1

      Don't mistake non-confrontational anti-socialism as a tendency to pacifism. Give us a doomsday device we can detonate from afar and many of us would happily use it.

    18. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to my friends list.

    19. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      10/21 The rest of the world, in a "surprise" strike, nukes the US back to the stone age, and then, for a good measure, again, back to the primordial slime age. All US citizens abroad, all their spouses, children and anyone who says a word of sympathy towards them are then hunted down, tried, and duly executed.

      Following which the world takes a few decades to get over the latest of the failed hegemonic empires to stink up the planet Earth, after it has joined the ranks of the like of Rome and Ghingis Khan in the realm of the past tense. And history marches on.

      You see, this game can be played by more then one player and usually, as in this case, the belligerent supremacists with these big big wet dreams of lording over everyone with their nukes (or whatever) are a tiny minority of the world populace. They best do not forget that.

    20. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Alinabi · · Score: 1

      ha. If the brits were serious, India would still be a territory of their "Empire" They weren't. Yup. If only they were serious...
      --
      "You can't allow somebody to commit the crime before you detain them." [Condoleezza Rice]
    21. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by hey! · · Score: 1

      Wow, that was an incredible piece of irrelevant observation. Yes, indeed, if we moved the social security budget into space exploration, then the space program would be more interesting to geeks than it is now, because it would be developing more technology. You, however, seem to think I'm arguing geeks are interested in things that money is being spent upon. Obviously, that's not true, otherwise we'd be fascinated by federal flood insurance.

      I'm just refuting the notion that geeks are necessarily militarists because they're interested in military technology. It's not the military aspect of military technology, it's the technology aspect, and to a lesser degree the controlled danger aspect. On the other hand, moving military technology money into Social Security, while it might be a good idea, doesn't make SS a geek obsession because there's no tech involved. Maybe if we someday go down the whole Japanese robots for elders path...

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    22. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by turgid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That reminds me, Gandhi had a contemporary who advocated India joining up with Nazi Germany in WWII to defeat the British. He had quite a sizable following.

      Goodness only knows what would have happened had Gandhi not been successful.

    23. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by OldeTimeGeek · · Score: 1
      10/21 The rest of the world, in a "surprise" strike, nukes the US back to the stone age, and then, for a good measure, again, back to the primordial slime age. All US citizens abroad, all their spouses, children and anyone who says a word of sympathy towards them are then hunted down, tried, and duly executed.

      After which they'll start nuking each other just to make sure that nobody gets any funny ideas.

    24. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      OK, I'll bite.

      That is why we have Trident (Ohio Class) Submarines - wipe out every soul in the US and you still get vaporized.

    25. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by calebt3 · · Score: 1

      Only if the SS budget went into developing new technologies, like the military and NASA like to do.

    26. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      It was my understanding that the military geek was more a specific sub-type (in Japan they are called gunji otaku) rather than a contradiction in terms.

    27. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by gb506 · · Score: 1

      I think he's using a roundabout method to remind us that the military isn't the only massive recipient of federal funding, nor even the biggest. I'd only add that military expenditures are clearly enumerated in the constitution, whereas forcing the citizenry to "invest" in that ponzi scheme we call Social Security clearly is not.

    28. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Efficiency? You mean like designing and building four different UVAs for each branch of the US military? You mean like designing a computer language for its own projects that nobody else uses (Ada)?

      Don't get me started about government efficiency.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    29. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by e2d2 · · Score: 1

      Yes and history would "march on", right into another empire. Most likely Russia or China or Europe lording over everyone. But let me guess, in this "what goes around comes around" view, the world has once and for all rid itself of elitist bent on world domination by this sneak attack right?

      What is most insane is the view that the US is somehow the "most" evil, when in fact right now in every country elitists strive to control the populace through fear, oppression, and outright murder.

      Name a country and I will show you a bunch of people that want to control you, having you work your life away to build their empire. Whether altruistic on the surface, the motives are almost always the same - to hoard as many resources as possible while trying to dominate man's "destiny".

      My question is, how in the fuck's name was this modded insightful? It's nothing but hate. Hunting down Americans and killing them?

      Hitler just called, he said "chill the fuck out you kook"

    30. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      Um, I would point out that Heinlein was a science FICTION author. Reality much?

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    31. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, non-violent action on the part of German civilians did work against Hitler. But I don't want to disturb your war-monger fantasies, so don't read this posting.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    32. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Tanman · · Score: 1

      The SR-71 blackbird which, coincidentally, doesn't kill people. In fact, once it was decommissioned, NASA got them for their own purposes completely outside military use.

      I think a lot of people like seeing the technology and how it could make life better/more interesting/whatever when used outside of a military context.

    33. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      Business is war too, fighting over the territory of another, leaving hundreds of thousands without jobs, a crashed economy or any number of other problems. Oh, yeah, definitely, the McDonald's and the Burger King in my town lob mortars across the street at each other, all the time. And the Pepsi and Coca-Cola troops battle each other with their soda-delivery tanks.

      Governments fight wars. Businesses trade peacefully.
      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    34. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 2, Funny

      The very basis of wisdom is accepting that you might be wrong. Some people are so good at arguing and so used to being more right than their neighbor that they never have to confront their own fallibility. Yeah, I used to think that, but I was wrong .... so wrong.
      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    35. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      Following which the world takes a few decades to get over the latest of the failed hegemonic empires to stink up the planet Earth, after it has joined the ranks of the like of Rome and Ghingis Khan in the realm of the past tense. And history marches on.

      Well if the US longevity is anything like Rome's you are going to have to put up with us for another 1000 years or so.

    36. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by STrinity · · Score: 1

      On one hand, us nerds show certain tendencies to pacifism
      [citation needed]

      It is true that all nerds believe "violence is the last refuge of the incompetent," however not all subscribe to the Asimovian interpretation that it means the use of violence is a sign of incompetence -- a good many take the Piperian stance that it means that the competent don't wait until the last extreme to resort to violence.
      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    37. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      That was in the movie, in the book the nukes were small shoulder launched rockets.

      Anyway in a ST world France wouldn't exist anyway since if you weren't willing to do service in the military you pretty much were bred out of the human race since "Civilians" were only allowed to have 1 child per couple.

      France as a country wouldn't have lasted for two generations at the most before there weren't enough people around anymore to be called French.

    38. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by OshMan · · Score: 1

      Few things in human history have driven technology as far as conflict and war. For instance Greek fire, long bows, long ships, the Manhattan project or landing on the moon. The internet itself was born out of the anxieties and contingencies of the cold war. If you are a geek (somehow I prefer that to nerd), and interested in or working with technology, you would be foolish to ignore or belittle military technological advancements. However, considering the use of technology is a moral debate, and certainly relevant to geeks as we might someday find ourselves with a choice about working on such a project. From that viewpoint as well I am interested in knowing what they are up to.

    39. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 1

      I think a lot of people like seeing the technology and how it could make life better/more interesting/whatever when used outside of a military context.

      Agreed. I also think for us Slashdot types (IT and engineering folk), there's an "awww that's cool" factor. Where else but the military are they going to build a vehicle capable of Mach 3 that supposedly can reach 50 miles+ of altitude, evades surface to air attacks by simply speeding up, and can travel coast to coast in under 60 minutes (with a running head start, of course).

    40. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by R2.0 · · Score: 1

      "You, however, seem to think I'm arguing geeks are interested in things that money is being spent upon."

      Yes, I am arguing that, specifically because you said:

      "Well, the military gets the money to buy the toys; if we moved, say, 20% of the military tech budget into space exploration, that would be a lot sexier right now."
      which I conveniently quoted in my response.

      You said very specifically that if we spent more money on space exploration, it would be "a lot sexier", which in this context I presume to mean attractive to geeks. (If that was not what you were trying to say, you certainly chose a poor way of not saying it.) It is not a great logical leap to go from your statement to the general thesis that geeks are attracted to government programs with more money spent on them. I was simply pointing out a special case where that thesis does not hold valid.

      --
      "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." A. Carlson
    41. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by JacobSphinx · · Score: 0

      The trade may be peaceful in that it does not have acts of violence, but it is not always peaceful by the "serene" definition. Business can include shady moves, hostile takeovers, polluting an environment, snake oil, destroying an entire country's economy to save pennies and all sorts of other acts both against the country and more importantly between businesses. Pepsi and Coca-Cola are like the US and China. They're not the best example, as they're the current super powers. SmallBottler#1 though is often crushed by them.

      Microsoft regularly crushes their competition through all sorts of really nasty moves. It's not about "peaceful business", it's not "playing nicely", it's damn sure not about creating a better product for the consumer. It's about taking over that territory, that chunk of the business revenue. Destroying your opponent so that you are victorious and you gain the wealth of the masses.

      You may argue that business is also constructive but war can be constructive too, just look at the way it pulled us out of the Great Depression. War is just a way to take the resources from others through superior power. Whether it's the power of troops, the power of language, or the power of money it's still superior power. Business is war. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves.

    42. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      Wow I didn't know they let people in the looney bin post on /.

      I write a tongue in cheek post just to be silly and you respond with an Al Qaeda "The Great Satan must die" thread.

      I do find it funny when I get responses from belligerent supreme-penis envyists with their big big wet dreams that some how their little 3rd world country will become more than a tourist trap for Europeans who come to see the ancient archtecture, which the current populous's ancestors had nothing to do with building because they road in out of the east and wiped out the locals in their own attempt at empire building, but yet failed misserably because they didn't realize that modern weaponry, personal hygiene, and basic education are the keys to global domination.

    43. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      Ahh a supply sider. They figure if they make more pancakes, they've just GOT to sell more maple syrup.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    44. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It might be suggested that the longevity and lasting impact of the roman republic/empire stems largely from its contributions to humanity - that's what makes the "what have the romans ever done for us" sketch from Life of Brian so funny.

      Now substitute the romans with americans and most people around the world would agree that the list of suggested benefits wouldn't be quite so long.

    45. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Or my favorite version of the old saying: "If violence isn't solving your problems, then you're just not using enough of it."

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    46. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by hey! · · Score: 1

      You said very specifically that if we spent more money on space exploration, it would be "a lot sexier", which in this context I presume to mean attractive to geeks.


      Yes, but you missed the boat on why.
      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    47. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by hey! · · Score: 2

      Correction -- you might have been wrong. You might still be wrong now. Keep trying, and you'll get there.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    48. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by ravan_a · · Score: 3, Informative

      Subhash Chandra Bose is the guy you are talking about.

      --
      -ravan_a
    49. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by iiiears · · Score: 1

      A billlion here and a trillion there and soon it begins to add up. How about some amazing seemingly low tech infrastructure investments like a brdge across the bering strait or a massive investment in renewable energy.

      --
      15TW = 15,000 Nuclear Reactors. (Approx. one accident a month.)
    50. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "Um, I would point out that Heinlein was a science FICTION author. Reality much?"

      Ad hominem much?
      Now try attacking his statement. :)

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    51. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More importantly, our forces in Iraq and Afganistan ought to get all the UAVs they want before the Smithsonian gets a single one.

    52. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by couchslug · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "Interestingly, non-violent action on the part of German civilians did work against Hitler."

      Examples please? "Existed" /= "work" if you define "work" as being very successful.

      Armor. infantry, and artillery OTOH worked superbly against Hitler. Pacifists didn't burn down the Third Reich around his ears, nor did they kill the millions of Wehrmacht and SS personnel who were the obstacles to victory.
      That took massive battles, not the whimpering of a few ineffectual pacifists.

      "But I don't want to disturb your war-monger fantasies, so don't read this posting."

      Insult isn't argument. Bring some facts to the table.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    53. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by couchslug · · Score: 1

      "The Nazis would have steamrolled Gandhi."

      So would Beijing, and they would have done it before he got famous.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    54. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by jd · · Score: 1
      In priciple, you could reverse desertification by using solar panels or solar heating panels, as you would alter the amount of energy reflected (and inded the amount absorbed by the ground) by converting it into electricity or hot water respectively. A few billion dollars worth of such technology would not only provide significant amounts of renewable energy, but would also reverse the loss of arable land. Sure, there's a lot of land used up in such a scheme, but I can't see any reason why you wouldn't end up reclaiming more than is used, and if you couldn't use what the panels used anyway, is it really lost?

      Instead of bridges, how about a trillion dollars of dirgibles for carrying air freight? Compared to air or sea, you've next to no air pollution, next to no noise pollution, they'd be far cheaper to run, have much lower risk factors, and a lot of freight isn't time-sensitive enough to go faster.

      How about a trillion dollars in better building materials? Half of Portland, Oregon, is currently being torn down and rebuilt, partly because the buildings were in a bad state of decay but also because it was cheaper to do that than anything else. This is the twenty-first century AD, not BC, but drystone walls were exceptionally good at being reconfigured on-the-fly. Remodelling without rebuilding was a fairly simple task. Slow, but simple. In an era of prefabricated sidings and meccano-style bolted metal frame buidings, you have to blow the thing up first. That's wasteful of raw materials and fuel reserves. There almost have to be superior ways to build and superior materials, such that it's cheap and easy to redesign as often as you like without having to replace everything.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    55. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by lessthan · · Score: 1

      Fine, the B-2 bomber. Fascinating and lethal.

      --
      Space Shuttle was a program that strapped humans to an explosion and tried to stab through the sky with fire and math
    56. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ha. If the brits were serious, India would still be a territory of their "Empire" They weren't.
      No true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge!
    57. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by shmlco · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "Anyway in a ST world France wouldn't exist anyway since if you weren't willing to do service in the military you pretty much were bred out of the human race since "Civilians" were only allowed to have 1 child per couple."

      Got a reference for that one? As I recall, in the book you needed military service in order to gain your franchise (the ability to vote). Everyone had to serve for a limited period in som fashion (e.g. public service), but only military service conferred the vote.

      So if you wanted a say in how the country was run, you had to prove that you had its best interests at heart by also being willing to die for it.

      The ulimate "put your money where your mouth is" clause.

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    58. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of "us nerds" that are far from being pacifists.

      Ayup. And I'm probably not alone in being a nerd who is a veteran. (Volunteered and served back when being in the military wasn't "cool" like now. Ten years in the US Submarine Service.)
    59. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Efficiency? You mean like designing and building four different UVAs for each branch of the US military?

      It's interesting - normally the Slashdot Mantra is that competition is a Good Thing by definition. Why not here? Now four may be a bit excessive - but you need at least two, probably three, because USN/USMC have different requirements than the Army/USAF. USN/USMC UAV's must operate off of carriers and LHxs and thus must be corrosion resistant and smaller. OTOH, the Army and USAF have different requirements as well - since the Army concentrates on tactical battlefield intelligence while the USAF works at a much longer range and loiter time.
       
      They keep trying to shoehorn the services into using identical gear - which rarely work and almost always ends up a boondoggle.
    60. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by chunk08 · · Score: 1

      Nope. Sex, drugs and Rock & Roll
      </pendant>

      --
      Do away with our corrupt tax code. Support the Fair Tax
    61. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by chunk08 · · Score: 1

      Amen. Before we spend another dime on that institution, get our troops some real body armor too.

      --
      Do away with our corrupt tax code. Support the Fair Tax
    62. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      That would pretty much be in line with the idiotic premise of "the more nukes you have - the more right you are" that the GP was proposing. It can only lead to everyone nuking everyone else.

    63. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Problem: the "enemy" population covers the remaining ~90% of the globe and has been preparing for fallout for decades. You only have so many nukes, so much territory and so many submarines (many/most of which can be hunted down and destroyed with enough non-nuclear, cheap hunter-killer subs right before the main nuke strike on the US). Even with full-on retaliation, majority of the Earth still wins: true most die but those who survive are free from the US Empire and perhaps they learn not to let another empire raise ever again ... maybe.

    64. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Yes and history would "march on", right into another empire. Most likely Russia or China or Europe lording over everyone. But let me guess, in this "what goes around comes around" view, the world has once and for all rid itself of elitist bent on world domination by this sneak attack right?

      Of course. That is why my bet on the humanity outgrowing its own idiocy is still 10:1 against.

      What is most insane is the view that the US is somehow the "most" evil, when in fact right now in every country elitists strive to control the populace through fear, oppression, and outright murder.

      We were discussing the hypothetical alternate-reality US which nuked Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and ... France.

      Name a country and I will show you a bunch of people that want to control you, having you work your life away to build their empire. Whether altruistic on the surface, the motives are almost always the same - to hoard as many resources as possible while trying to dominate man's "destiny". My question is, how in the fuck's name was this modded insightful? It's nothing but hate. Hunting down Americans and killing them? Hitler just called, he said "chill the fuck out you kook"

      Read the GP post, I was replying to the notion of the US nuking half of the Middle East and some Europe just because them there furriners dared to be uppity and did not know their place. My response was meant to demonstrate the consequences of such hateful and supremacist notions: i.e. they will produce hate in return, and with enough hate to go around also a rather violent end to the USA (and many other places).

    65. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Maybe, maybe not. Rome had a lot of other things going for it (such as very slow communications) and by today's standards a minuscule population density.

      The point was however that all, even the longest lasting, empires crumble eventually. And in the case of the USA the cracks are all over the place already, or you haven't been watching news lately.

    66. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      LOL.

      And here I thought that I was responding to a closet US-ian supremacist, who out of poorly disguised rage and frustration that the UN and the rest of the world dares to be disobedient and not submissive enough was "tongue-in-cheek" proposing a "solution": nuke em all! (Ha, Ha, Hee, Hee, Ho, Ho, A knee-slapper!).

      I simply responded in the same vein, to demonstrate what all of these comedic wargasm "war-hawks" always forget to mention: the step 2 of their wet dream, titled "Most of the time, instead of falling on the ground and beg to be our elites' eternal slaves (i.e. be liberated via "shock and awe"), those we shoot at ... err ... they .. kinda of ... you know ... fight back.".

      Somehow, strangely, that one never gets mentioned until after the shit hits the fan.

      And sure enough, the "jokers" suddenly lost all of their sense of humor, dropped any pretenses of being "funny" and are now frothing at the mouth about "penis envy" and "how [my - Canada in this case] little 3rd world country will become more than a tourist trap".

      And that is funny. In the sort of way as the NSDAP was: a real die-of-laughter riot.

    67. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An example would be the SR-71 blackbird. ..which is, however, not actually an instrument of war.
    68. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by El+Torico · · Score: 1

      Following which the world takes a few decades to get over the latest of the failed hegemonic empires to stink up the planet Earth, after it has joined the ranks of the like of Rome and Ghingis Khan in the realm of the past tense. And history marches on.

      I agree that the Roman and Mongol empires ultimately came to an end, but I don't see how they "stink up the earth". Although both of these empires were brutal and expansionist at times, they both had admirable qualities and made significant contributions. As for the American empire, it simply filled the power vacuum that existed after WWII and countered the Soviet Union, which is why it is called "the accidental empire".

      The American empire is probably one of the most benign that ever existed. If you doubt that, compare the Marshall Plan to what Rome imposed on Carthage.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    69. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Although both of these empires were brutal and expansionist at times, they both had admirable qualities and made significant contributions.

      That depends on your answer to this question: would the same "admirable qualities" be acquired in time by the conquered peoples on their own, without the empire first murdering scores of them and enslaving the rest? And no, the supposedly more rapid time frame is not important, as bloody and fast "progress" is definitely worse then the slow and peaceful variety.

      The American empire is probably one of the most benign that ever existed. If you doubt that, compare the Marshall Plan to what Rome imposed on Carthage.

      Some millions of dead in Vietnam (the millions of dead in this one war alone far outstrip anything Rome could have managed, simply due to differences in population density) and untold numbers of "shocked and awed" (permanently - into the ground) civilians in Iraq would disagree. Furthermore, it is far too early to praise the day, as the Sun hasn't set yet on this particular empire. A lot can still go terribly wrong as the great relics of its military power fall into the hands of various increasingly desperate or lunatic factions in the disintegrating hierarchy of imperial power.

    70. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Pogdranaut · · Score: 0

      "Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor, and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and freedoms." Robert Anson Heinlein I prefer Wellingtons version:

      "There is no manifesto the equal of cannon and musketry"
    71. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by dodobh · · Score: 1

      10/17 France responds with nuclear strikes. The US suffers massive casualties, and retaliates in kind.
      10/19 Nuclear winter: day 1

      --
      I can throw myself at the ground, and miss.
    72. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by El+Torico · · Score: 1

      That depends on your answer to this question: would the same "admirable qualities" be acquired in time by the conquered peoples on their own, without the empire first murdering scores of them and enslaving the rest? And no, the supposedly more rapid time frame is not important, as bloody and fast "progress" is definitely worse then the slow and peaceful variety.

      I agree that peaceful progress is far better than progress brought about by subjugation, but I disagree with your assertion that the time frame is not important. I don't think that we can change each other's opinion on that.

      Some millions of dead in Vietnam (the millions of dead in this one war alone far outstrip anything Rome could have managed, simply due to differences in population density) and untold numbers of "shocked and awed" (permanently - into the ground) civilians in Iraq would disagree. Furthermore, it is far too early to praise the day, as the Sun hasn't set yet on this particular empire. A lot can still go terribly wrong as the great relics of its military power fall into the hands of various increasingly desperate or lunatic factions in the disintegrating hierarchy of imperial power.

      Yes, the gross numbers are far higher for the Vietnam War than for the 3rd Punic War, but the percentages are very different. Hanoi was not utterly destroyed, the entire North Vietnamese population were not killed or enslaved, and North Vietnam was not annexed. Yes, it's because the United States withdrew, but the United States didn't eradicate Germany after WW2 and it's actually trying to organize successor governments in Afghanistan and Iraq (with mixed results I admit).

      Yes, the sun hasn't set on the American empire, long may it exist.

      --
      In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
    73. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by genner · · Score: 1

      Heavy weapons worked against Hitler too.

    74. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by genner · · Score: 1

      those who survive are free from the US Empire and perhaps they learn not to let another empire raise ever again ... maybe. Yes because any government that's willing to nuke the world is bound to be a good one.
    75. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by lwap0 · · Score: 1

      Four different UAV's for each respective service has nothing to do with government efficiency. Each one of those UAV's have different operational capabilities, customized to suit the needs of each service. For exampe, The Shadow and Pioneer UAV's are not armed, and are used generally to supply intel at a platoon/battalion level. The Pioneer is a bit more bulky and box-like actually, it's a pretty old plane and needs to be launched off a moving ship and is used for amphibious landings and coastal recon. The Shadow is launched off of a towed catapult as opposed to the Predator who actually needs a runway. Hell, the Dragoneye UAV is launched by a giant rubber band, and supplies intel to a squad or platoon. The Predator has a higher flight ceiling, and a greater loiter time than the smaller UAV's, because it carries out different, if superficially similar missions to it's smaller cousins.

      Shake your fist all you want against the government, and it's many gross inefficiency's. God knows it's chock full of them. I would humbly suggest something other than UAV's to pick on though.

      --
      I bring nothing to the table.
    76. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by e2d2 · · Score: 1

      Apologies, I looked at your post first and GP was filtered.

      I love your odds on humanity outgrowing it's own idiocy, I wish I was around to cash in because they seem pretty good. :-D

      I think what's really insane is that there are people like GP in America who have a very thin grasp of reality, how thin America's "power" really is and how it relies on such blinded views to continue.

    77. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      ... but I disagree with your assertion that the time frame is not important. I don't think that we can change each other's opinion on that.

      All that remains for you to do then is to explain how getting literacy at the expense of half of your village murdered horribly, but in a period of 5 years is far superior to you developing literacy over the period of say, two generations, but without all the rape, pillaging and disemboweling for fun.

      I always wandered how the "speed of progress" or "speed of growth" or some other such similarly contrived arbitrary nonsense was so important as to warrant murder and slavery. This should be some interesting explanation!

      .... but the percentages are very different.

      Percentages? Now there is a bit of crass apologism! So let me get this straight: if I, as a member of a 2-people household, kill the other guy (a 50% "ratio" of murder), then I am a far worse criminal then if I were to kill 1000 people when living in a city of 3000 ("only" a 30% ratio). Do explain this death arithmetic of "percentages" rather then absolutes along with that of the "speed of murderous progress" ...

      Hanoi was not utterly destroyed, the entire North Vietnamese population were not killed or enslaved,

      US lost that particular conquest (as Rome sometimes did). As to the provinces, neither did Rome always use heavy handed tactics to manage them, frequently installing some locals as "monarchs" (and the like) to manage them by proxy, only requiring obedience and that some legions were stationed there. Curiously enough the USA stations its military forces in a great number of countries, installed "presidents" in many of them, and demands of all of its "allies" a degree of strict adherence to the Imperial ideology and religious belief which it calls Democracy (defined as the populace selecting an Empire-friendly leader, as the Empire will tolerate no other choices no matter how "democratically" made) and Capitalism (defined as a method of enriching the elites of the Empire first and foremost), and has deployed and manages a number of organizations to help it in this effort to get the subjects to "police themselves", such as NATO, the WTO, IMF etc. etc.

      Yes, the sun hasn't set on the American empire, long may it exist.

      I am sure that many a denizen of Rome proper expressed a similar sentiment, why with all the bread and circuses, not quite so however for the Slavic ... slaves (their "modern" name still pays homage to their former role in that empire). Similarly, as a member of the privileged classes of the Empire, your outlook is far different then those in, say, South America, parts of Asia or Middle East who had to bear the brunt of the Imperial efforts at hegemony. Some of those satisfy themselves with defying the economic and social dictates of the Imperial aristocracy, some others send their ill wishes via AK-47 and RPG rounds and still some others yet even go so far as to express their displeasure via steering some airplanes into some buildings in the heart of the Imperial economic power. Such is the fate of empires: they are magnets for all the ill will of those whom they wronged as of those who would have much rather rule their own oppressive empire.

    78. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by IgnoramusMaximus · · Score: 1

      Again, in the hypothetical scenario of the GP post it was the US nuking everyone who it did not like. I simply pointed out that others would be likely to respond in kind. "Goodness" did not enter into it.

    79. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Rub1cnt · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately the world nuclear powers would look down upon the nuking of France...mostly. They would likely harshly word diplomatic addresses on the subject in public...except former Russia...they'd probably thank us publicly. As for the rest of the nuclear stuff...the one major threat to our wiping our opponents out in a nuclear strike is the fact of Mutually assured destruction. This worked fine during the cold war when tensions were high..and now that the former soviet union has crumbled and can no longer reliably track thier nukes..we have the situation where everyone who wants to get thier hands on a nuke, can for the right price. Mutually assured destruction is a deterrent now..but the threat is very much diminished from the cold war days. I for one felt slightly more comfortable during the cold war...at least then we only had one other power with nukes that were aimed at us...now we have so many.

      --
      Remember, it's not paranoia if they really ARE out to get you... :)
    80. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Rub1cnt · · Score: 1

      Hell, gimmie Tinman from Stealth. I'll take that plane as my wingman any day. It hates the RIAA, it has a problem with authority and it was a true, red blooded american IMHO. Hmm...now imagine if they could make a B52 into a UAV... New meaning to "The terrorists have won the toss and have elected to receive."

      --
      Remember, it's not paranoia if they really ARE out to get you... :)
    81. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

      They threw it out there in the movie. Rico's parents were civilians and he was an only child and later one of the female troopers in the infamous shower scene mentioned she wanted to have a litter of kids. I'm pretty sure it was in the book as well, or at least in some side Q & A with Heinlein, but its been a while so I don't know for sure.

    82. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Charcharodon · · Score: 1
      There is no mutually assured destruction anymore.

      At best a terrorist might be able to hit NY or LA with a stolen nuke. Hardly a catostrophic loss.

      Even a country like France might be able to threaten to take out a large number of major cities in the US, but the retaliation would be utter anihilation of the country and its people. So I don't see that happening.

      The US though hurt would still be quite strong relative to nearly any other country in the world.

      It would have to take the combine efforts of all remaining nuclear powers to make a realistic MAD threat these days. People can't come to an aggreament on banana exports I don't see how they'll make a decision of a much larger magnitude.

    83. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      umm it's not only the US government that does this, include all responsible parties please. The US is'nt the only black eye on the planet you know..

    84. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by jd · · Score: 1
      Fair enough. Ok, all who could reasonably be placed in the *.gov domain, past, present and probably future, do more development in the military and in wartime for the aforestated reasons, although the apparent contempt for science in the public interest varies between governments and ranges from total to almost total. Japan spends something like (I don't have the exact figures) 2% of GDP on civilian research and 1% on military research - the only country I know of where the situation is reversed, but still an amazingly high military figure for a country forbidden under its constitution to have a standing army or any kind of military other than for purely defensive purposes.

      The British government, on the other hand, is so underfuding science that numerous major research facilities are under threat of closure, with the government officials blaming the astronomers and physicists for not asking what they wanted in some right way or other. I don't know how you'd measure contempt, but Britain must surely be somewhere in the top 1% on the contemptitude scale.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    85. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by caldodge · · Score: 1

      As dramatized by Harry Turtledove in The Last Article

    86. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      When The Gap starts employing dragoon squads to force customers into their stores, THEN and ONLY THEN will you be talking sense.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    87. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      I doubt that facts would change your mind. Your opinion seems pretty fixed.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    88. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      Heavy weapons worked against Hitler too. Errr, nobody denies that. The war-mongers deny that pacifism worked.
      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    89. Re:Slashdot on a military roll by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      I did attack his statement. I'm saying that as part of work of FICTION it need have no basis in reality. Attacking Heinlein would be ad-hominem.

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  2. for those unable to go to the exhibit by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 1
  3. All Five? by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

    There's five branches in the U.S. military. Four in the Department of Defense, and one in the Department of Homeland Security.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re:All Five? by techpawn · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Coast Guard? Coast Guard is the strange cousin of the Military. They invite him to the family get together but you know they talk about him when he's not in ear shot.
      Don't get me wrong. I respect the men and women who do it, I don't want to be on the water like that.

      --
      Ask not what you can do for your country. Ask what your country did to you
    2. Re:All Five? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      There's five branches in the U.S. military. Four in the Department of Defense, and one in the Department of Homeland Security.

      In your snarkiness, you were partly right (since you left out the Coast Guard), even as you knew you were wrong about DHS. If you're going down that road, why not say that Agriculture Department is part of the DoD, since pilots have to eat? Or that the IRS is just the revenue collecting branch of the military? Or that Nancy Pelosi is part of the military since it's something she talks about as part of her job? Or that the FBI is part of the military, since they've been known to arrest and prosecute some DoD employees who go wrong? Never mind, you're a troll, anyway. Have a nice day.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    3. Re:All Five? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Well, unless of course you're not trolling, and decided to be REALLY oblique about the Coast Guard. Which isn't exactly how that played, is it? Most people here don't like the necessary interaction between, and sharing of intel between the domestic activities of the DHS and the military intel people. Well, unless they can complain that sharing it badly is a defect of whatever administration they don't like, in which case sharing correctly is goood... but otherwise it's bad, see? One must slashdottify one's mind to get the right frame of reference, of course.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:All Five? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, if we're speaking of uniformed services, there are seven.

      Department of Defense:
      Army
      Navy
      Air Force
      Marines

      Department of Homeland Security:
      Coast Guard

      Department of Health and Human Services:
      Public Health Service Commissioned Corps

      Department of Commerce:
      National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Commissioned Corps

      I have no idea what the noaa does (weather?) but i think phs officials can do anything they want if there's a public health crisis. and the marines and coast guard fall under control of the navy in time of war.

    5. Re:All Five? by Solandri · · Score: 2, Informative

      Coast Guard? Coast Guard is the strange cousin of the Military. They invite him to the family get together but you know they talk about him when he's not in ear shot.
      Prior to the formation of the Department of Homeland Security, the US Coast Guard was part of the Treasury Department (along with Customs and Border Patrol) during peacetime, and transferred to the Department of Defense during times of war. e.g. During Desert Storm (Iraq War I), the Coast Guard was transferred to the DoD and some of its ships and service members saw action there. I think there was a brief stint in the Department of Transportation as well.

      The same arrangement continues with the USCG switching from DHS to DoD during times of war.

    6. Re:All Five? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong on the DoD list.
      The Marine Corps falls under the Dept of the Navy.
      Prior to DHS the Coast Guard fell under the DOT.

    7. Re:All Five? by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Well, there are all sorts of government agencies that (sometimes) wear uniforms, carry guns, and even operate overseas. Like the State Department's protective people... yes, the Secretary of State might have Marines guarding her at some locations, but State's own crew is out in advance, sort of like the Secret Service. The Secret Service, of course (part of the Treasury!) is also out, overseas, packing heat, in advance of the arrival of certain parts of the government showing up. There are more, of course.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    8. Re:All Five? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Four. Three in the Department of Defense, and one in the Department of Homeland Security. Unless you can name the Secretary of the Marine Corps for me.

    9. Re:All Five? by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 1

      Plus, guarding the Federal Reserve building in NYC are "Federal Reserve Police". What the hell branch of government do THEY fall under??? Executive? Legislative? Judicial? (you didn't count the Marshalls).

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
    10. Re:All Five? by STrinity · · Score: 1

      Actually, there are just three -- Army, Navy, and Air Force. The Marines are a subset of the navy consisting of people too dumb to know that ground troops belong in the Army. The Coast Guard can be militarized in times of war, but they aren't at present.

      --
      Les Miserables Volume 1 now up with my reading of
    11. Re:All Five? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      There's five branches in the U.S. military. Four in the Department of Defense, and one in the Department of Homeland Security.


      There are five branches of the U.S. Armed Forces (defined in 10 USC 101(a)(4)) and seven branches of the U.S. uniformed services (defined in 10 USC 101(a)(5)) (the two not included in the Armed Forces being in the Department of Health and Human Services and the Department of Commerce). The uniformed services that are not part of the armed forces were specifically created as uniformed services because of their military role, (in the case of the one now part of the Department of Commerce, most specifically to assure that members would be treated as combatants rather than spies if captured in wartime while performing their duties on the battlefied.)
    12. Re:All Five? by DragonWriter · · Score: 1

      Well, there are all sorts of government agencies that (sometimes) wear uniforms, carry guns, and even operate overseas.


      Yes, but there are only two departments that control "Armed Forces" and four that control "uniformed services", as defined in Subtitle A ("General Military Law") of Title 10 of the United States Code.
    13. Re:All Five? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but the Coast Guard has really only used the Predators under a trial program run with the Air Force. They did get a neat orange stripe on them for a few months.

      The CG was planning on using a tilt-rotor (think V-22 Osprey) UAV called the "EagleEye" http://www.fas.org/irp/program/collect/TRUSground1.jpg as part of their Deepwater acquisition project. They even planned on buyin 45 of them, along with 4 Predators for longer range stuff.

      However, it looks like funding has stalled out, and I don't see any mention of it in HR 2830 budget authorization the House just passed. (Though the President may veto this one anyway, it's got some pretty controversial provisions)

    14. Re:All Five? by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

      In your snarkiness, you were partly right (since you left out the Coast Guard), even as you knew you were wrong about DHS.
      The Coast Guard is part of DHS. So you're either not paying attention to the last five years or you're trolling.

      And in response to your other post about what constitutes "military", it's a service which uses military rate & rank structure & is subject to the UCMJ. Of which there are five branches in the US - Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. There's two other 'uniformed services' (Public Health Service & National Oceanographic & Atmospheric Administraion) which can be militarized during time of war.

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    15. Re:All Five? by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

      I'm not going to debate how 'military' the CG is or isn't, but they are part of the US military by legal definition, if not by public usage.

      --
      Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    16. Re:All Five? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope: five. While the USMC falls under the Secretary of the Navy, it's still a separate branch.

  4. Excellent by TomRK1089 · · Score: 1

    Time to visit the Smithsonian, take lots of pictures, and reverse engineer a couple of my own. :D

    1. Re:Excellent by JK_the_Slacker · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but you'd have to leave the basement to do so. I've heard there's a daystar that burns you if you venture outdoors. Much easier to just use Google Earth for all your domestic spying needs.

      --
      I'm waiting for a "-1 somepeoplejustshouldn'tgetmodprivileges" meta-moderation.
    2. Re:Excellent by TomRK1089 · · Score: 1

      Bah. I use a specially prepared chemical compound to prevent topical radiation burns from occurring.

      You might have heard of it as 'sunscreen.'

  5. A must see... by kebes · · Score: 1

    I was actually at the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum a week ago. The museum overall is simply fantastic--a must see for any die-hard geek. Actually, the Air and Space is split into two parts: a museum in downtown DC that has some planes and the lunar re-entry vehicles; and a larger hangar near the airport (Dulles, in Virginia) that has larger planes and space vehicles (including the Space Shuttle Enterprise). Best of all, the Smithsonian Museums all have free admittance. (I probably sound like an ad for the Smithsonians--I just really enjoyed it!)

    I saw the UAV exhibit, and it is indeed quite cool to see the sizes and designs of these vehicles. (FYI: the UAV exhibit is at the downtown DC museum.) On the one hand the UAVs are quite large, if you compare them to RC planes and helicopters. On the other hand, it's amazing how far the technology has come, that we can build a flight-capable system with high-quality (military-grade surveillance) optics in such a small package.

    1. Re:A must see... by blind+biker · · Score: 1

      I'm definitely putting _them_ on my must-see list for when I visit the USA next time (dunno when that'll be, but it will happen). I am particularly interested in the UAVs, but I doubt the exhibit will still be up by the time I'll get over to yankeeland. I'll definitely try to come by the end of the year, though.

      Other geek-friendly places to see?

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    2. Re:A must see... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative
    3. Re:A must see... by GundamFan · · Score: 1

      I totally agree, having the Smithsonian Museums within driving distance is one of the best parts about living in the Northern VA / Maryland area.

      It's worth noting that the charge for parking at the Dulles Air and Space annex.

      --
      I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
      Mark Twain
    4. Re:A must see... by jfinke · · Score: 1
      I went to the one by Dulles a couple of years ago. They were actually having an air show at the time, which made it pretty cool.

      One of the things they were doing inside was putting together a UAV so you could see the packaging it came in and how quickly a team could get the thing put together and ready for flight.

      The museum is way cool if you have any interest in flight. There are a lot of historic aircraft there including a Blackbird, Rutan's first Cozy, adn like the poster above stated, the Enterprise. The Enterprise was never a fully functional SS, but it is cool to get the proportions of the thing.

    5. Re:A must see... by rikkards · · Score: 1

      The wife and I decided to go to DC last July and had a great time. We only rented a car one day and it was to go to the Dulles arm of the Air and Space and a outlet mall. The entire time we were there we relied on the Subway and taxis. All of the Smithsonian museums are free to get in. The only one I know of that costs is the Spy museum which is privately run if I recollect.

    6. Re:A must see... by smooth+wombat · · Score: 1

      Just to pile on, about 2 years or so ago I drove my parents down to the Dulles branch (my mom suggested we go so I drove). The real issue was that there were some ham related (as in amateur radio) satellites and exhibits on display and she wanted to surprise my dad when he saw it (K3SZH for anyone that is interested).

      In the same room as the shuttle, they have a cut away of a V2 rocket engine bell which allows you to see the channels the liquid fuel went through when it cooled the bell before being consumed. They have a whole host of other craft from WWII in the same room.

      As a side note, in that same room there is the original model of the spacecraft from Close Encounters in a glass case. If you look closely at it, you can see some of the quirky items the designers put on it knowing they wouldn't be seen in the movie. What kind of quirky items? How about a graveyard, some aircraft and a street scene.

      All in all, the Dulles annex is a must see with all the planes and other items they have, literally, hanging around. Even if you're not into aircraft and related matters, the engineering of the devices is something to see. Wear comfortable shoes and be prepared to walk up and down stairs.

      And yes, as one of the posters above commented, it does cost to park at the annex but is free to enter. Except for the $8 Quarter Pounder at the McDonald's inside.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    7. Re:A must see... by MiniMike · · Score: 1

      The museum is way cool if you have any interest in flight. Even people who don't typically like airplanes or technology like this museum. I took my 80 year old grandmother there, and she enjoyed it. So did my mom, and my wife (NOTE- I don't typically hang out with my grandmother and my mom).

      The Enterprise was never a fully functional SS... They used the Enterprise for aerodynamics testing, i.e. they dropped it off the back of a 747 and let it glide in. It has almost everything except the engines. This is backed up by the Wikipedia entry. They even used part of the left wing for testing after the loss of Columbia, which they put back 'slightly damaged'. Not contradicting, just adding to the previous statement.
  6. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're already having a hard enough time keeping the militant wing of the Salvation Army in check, and now we're starting to give those fascists at the Smithsonian surveillance and attack UAVs- that's just asking for trouble.

  7. Used Daily by the SGC by jameskojiro · · Score: 2, Funny

    They use them more now than the little electric carts with six wheels. They go through the gate and can fly and some have little missles that can take out small squads of Jaffa really quickly.

    --
    Tsukasa: All I really want, is to be left alone...
  8. My brain asplode by 26199 · · Score: 1

    UAVs (unmanned aerial vehicles)

    Unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs)

    Was that really necessary? :p

    1. Re:My brain asplode by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      They needed to add U(nmanned)A(erial)V(ehicle)s.

  9. Funny part of the article by Jaqenn · · Score: 1
    From the article:

    On one notable mission, a group of Iraqi fighters surrendered to the [UAV] as it flew over their heads. Marines were directed to their position, where they then captured the fighters.

    Ahhh ha ha. Suckers.
    --
    You are awash in a sea of fiercely stated opinions. Obvious exits are: 'File->Quit', 'Reply', and 'Page Down'.
    1. Re:Funny part of the article by Ironsides · · Score: 1

      From the article:

      On one notable mission, a group of Iraqi fighters surrendered to the [UAV] as it flew over their heads. Marines were directed to their position, where they then captured the fighters. Ahhh ha ha. Suckers. The UAV was supplying live feed to a US battleship for targeting coordinates. This was the second UAV to fly over them. Just previously they had received some presents curtesy of the USS Wisconsin's and USS Missouri's 16 inch guns. They decided they wanted to live. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Wisconsin_(BB-64)#Gulf_War
      --
      Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
    2. Re:Funny part of the article by timeOday · · Score: 1

      Watch this and tell me if you think those guys would have been suckers to surrender to the UAV.

    3. Re:Funny part of the article by CompMD · · Score: 2, Funny

      See? Some people do welcome their robotic overlords.

  10. Misleading Title by solweil · · Score: 1

    From the title I was hoping that the Smithsonian had obtained a fleet of UAVs and would have them constantly flying over various parts of the world streaming video and remote-sensing data to public monitors in the museum in real time.

    1. Re:Misleading Title by eln · · Score: 1

      No no, they don't have the funds to do global surveillance. They use the drones to fire missiles at competing museums. It's how the Smithsonian has maintained its dominant position in the museum wars for so long: unchecked aggression.

  11. Saw them this past weekend by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 1

    I was surprised by the size of the Predator, and I don't recall ever having seen DarkStar before. There's a U2 in the back of the ground floor. And the mannequin is wearing a flight suit donated by Francis Gary Powers' family.

    A very interesting exhibit on computers and flight, which includes an Apollo Guidance Computer.

    Also did a trip to the National Cryptologic Museum, which is *well* worth the time it takes to get there. (Don't forget to pick up your NSA logo-wear at the gift shop!)

  12. USCG is part of DHS by Radon360 · · Score: 1

    Unless I'm missing something, or not comprehending something correctly, in your response, the U.S. Coast Guard is structured under the Department of Homeland Security. Prior to the existence of DHS, it was part of the Department of Transportation. FWIW.

  13. other countries... by DMoylan · · Score: 1

    they should try and get their hands on the uk 'bugger off' drone

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/26/phoenix_says_goodbye/

    if only so future generations can learn how not to make a drone.

  14. No need, already been done, sorta by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting
    http://diydrones.ning.com/

    The have tips, hints, and plans, even include where to get the gps and other nav boards, and software with autopilot capability. Its all pretty interesting stuff. If I had free time Id probly try one myself.

    Tm

  15. Interesting names by TheWoozle · · Score: 1

    But I'm wondering...why no Frogstar Fighter?

    --
    Insisting on "correct" English is like saying that there is only one, definitive recipe for chili.
  16. I wonder ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this could have any impact on operational security.

    Obviously, someone vetted putting these on display, so I'm likely wrong ... it's just hard not to wonder if being able to walk into a museum and take photos and whatever of something deployed in an operational theater mighn't be problematic.

    Then again, I'm sure all of the good bits like avionics have been stripped, so the carcass of the drones probably doesn't tell you much.

    Cheers

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:I wonder ... by greyhueofdoubt · · Score: 1

      Well, to tell you the truth (and as someone who has worked on some of these wonders), there isn't much to learn by looking at them.

      They are essentially airplanes. I shouldn't say that- they _are_ airplanes, plain and simple. There just isn't a crew compartment. You could easily build one with a little money to buy the fiberglass and graphite and Epon and Rolls Royce engine. No biggy.

      The problem has never been, "How do I build an airplane?"; It has always been, "How do I build a reliable autonomous/remote-controlled airplane?"

      You are correct, the avionics and comm boxes have been stripped out. Comm on UAVs is the same as comm on regular fighters and bombers; it is rekeyed every day and is very, very secret. Top Secret, you might say. The rest of the trick lies in owning good satellites, well-trained techs or contractors, and money. The money is to develop the comm and C&C systems. Really- these things are RC planes, except for the C&C. It's easy to say well, big deal, I can build an RC plane... Now control an RC plane, flying over Iraq, carrying missiles, from a joystick in California. With absolute* reliability. With human lives on the line.

      It helps underscore the importance of sat comm in modern warfare, doesn't it?

      *goal, not quite real-world, obviously :)

      -b

      --
      No offense, but I've stopped responding to AC's.
  17. New? by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Informative

    Not sure how new this is, we were there well over a month ago and it was already there.

    I found it underwhelming - I mean, instead of an interesting exhibition on some of the capabilities of UAVs and how significantly they are changing the tactical landscape, it was just a few UAVs hanging at one end of the hall. (shrug).

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:New? by VeNoM0619 · · Score: 0
      Question:

      I found it underwhelming - I mean, instead of an interesting exhibition on some of the capabilities of UAVs and how significantly they are changing the tactical landscape, it was just a few UAVs hanging at one end of the hall. (shrug). Answer:

      Not sure how new this is, we were there well over a month ago and it was already there. That seemed pretty easy :P
      --
      Disclaimer: I am not god.
      We may not be created equal
      But we can be treated equal.
    2. Re:New? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I was there also a month ago and would have to agree with Styopa that it was unimpressive. I was excited when I first noticed them, but upon inspection of the exhibit it was not anything special. Hanging 18-40 feet over your head isn't much better than pictures. They were a little bigger than I imagined, so I guess I got something out of it.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  18. The Smithsonian Should Also House by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0



    this criminal in a
    disclosed insecure location.

    Cordially,
    Kilgore Trout

  19. Yes, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the pattern you display is known, and unfortunately many do not see the inherent (yet masked) rage as any symptom worthy of attention by an outside professional. Put it this way: someone truly unconcerned about society-at-large (non-confrontational anti-socialism) wouldn't also have significant and augmented animosity towards it.

  20. Why go to the Smithsonian when they come to you by quaero_notitia · · Score: 1

    Just wait a few more years and you'll see them patrolling overhead in your part of town.

    --
    -- Wondering how long until the internet becomes fully corporatist, like television.
  21. Barrett .50 BMG Sniper Rifles by clbyjack81 · · Score: 1

    As with most things, The Onion has already tapped this comedy vein: Peace Activist Has To Admit Barrett .50 Caliber Sniper Rifle Is Pretty Cool

    As I just had the opportunity to fire a few .50 BMG rounds through a Barrett Model 95 this past Friday, I can attest that it is indeed immensely cool! There is very little recoil, but an impressive shock wave smacks you after each shot. I challenge any man to fire this gun and not walk away smiling.

    --
    Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence on the planet is a constant. The population is growing.
  22. There's not a Secretary of the CG, either by Chmcginn · · Score: 1
    So if that's your definition, there's only three. However, the legal definition in the US (if not the public use one) is a uniformed service that falls under the UCMJ, of which there are five.

    As an aside, if you're trying to imply that the Marine Corps is part of the Navy, you're either a former squid yourself or just trying to start a fight. Possibly both. :)

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?
    1. Re: There's not a Secretary of the CG, either by Tacvek · · Score: 1

      The Marine Corps can be considered part of the Navy. However, this is true only if the Navy is considered part of the Marine Corps. They are run by the same department, and share resources far more closely than other branches. The Marine Corps primarily relies on the Navy for transportation, just as the Navy primarily relies on the Corps for their ground forces. One could not really argue that one is a subset of the other, but neither completely stands alone.

      --
      Stylish sheet to fix many problems in Slashdot's D3: https://gist.github.com/801524
  23. Sure it is by Chmcginn · · Score: 1

    Just because it's not a weapon doesn't mean it's not an instrument of war. Does a laser designator directly damage the target it's using? No, but allows the bombs to hit it more accurately.

    --
    Have you been touched by his noodly appendage?