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OpenOffice.org 3.0 Beta Released
Sean0michael writes "OpenOffice.org has announced their 3.0 Beta is ready for testing. The new version includes some great enhancements, including MS Office 2007 import filters, an improved notes feature, a built-in Solver component, and an Aqua interface for Macs. The site has a complete list of Beta features. Download your beta release from their site."
Congratulations to the OOo team on (finally) getting an Aqua interface running on Mac OS X. This is a great leap forward for the project and I predict will grow the project significantly in both user base and contributors.
I will probably get crucified for this, but one of the new features seems to be support for VBA! While this may not appeal to folks creating NEW solutions, at least we got a stepping stone for supporting old solutions on a non-windows/office platform.
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
I'm missing the "complete rewrite of rendering API and functionality", as well as proper SVG handling (or EPS, or PDF, hell native support for any proper vector graphics format!), and other things that would keep Impress presentations from looking like ass. What about uniform lines, circles that look at least remotely like circles, etc.? What about proper inline (and display) math typesetting? Instead of trying to remain bug-compatible with MS Office at all cost, they should perhaps think about, well, not sucking as bad.
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
Maybe a bunch of users should get together and form a bounty on it. I'd gladly throw in $10 to have reveal codes.
I'm DMing a D&D game right now, and most people are trying to use HeroForge spreadsheets to build their characters and show them to me. Without MS Office, I can't read them. If there's a problem with character sheets for D&D, I can only imagine how many businesses and other groups have problems with OOO not recognizing MS scripts. Until OpenOffice, and a lot of other Open Source Software projects, understand this [that they need to be different], they aren't much better than what they emulate. In the areas that matter, they're very much inferior. Apple has been able to create UIs that are much superior to anything anyone else offers. Open source has failed to do so for 90% of their attempts. Unless the project is in that 10%, they could do better by moving towards the MS version rather than continuing what they're doing.
Ugh. I sound like a broken record: Every OOo update, I hope that the OOo developers will add an outline mode to Writer. And every release I'm disappointed. I really like OOo, but this one missing feature keeps me from using it for serious work becuase it makes large document planning and writing production in Writer sloooooow. It's been requested of the OOo team quite a few times over the past 4-5 years. ODF intuitively matches this concept, but implementing it apparently requires some nontrivial change to the Writer codebase. And a little more enthusiasm by those who could code it (wish I could). If I could direct my OOo donation to this one feature, I'd give $XXX instead of my paltry $XX donation. There's some background available here: http://serendipity.ruwenzori.net/index.php/category/writing
And to quote myself (http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=322381&cid=20912291): "...before some n00b who's never written a 200-page document jumps all over me: No, the OOo "Navigator" does not provide an outline mode. It provides something akin to a re-organizable TOC in a floating window, but it doesn't provide the productivity enhancements afforded by inline hierarchical control within the editing window. This is one function that MS Word got right. For example, in Word I can start typing and make a list in normal text, click into "outline mode" and either use a key shortcut or a single click-drag to promote/demote some text to headings (while leaving other items as content), or re-order paragraphs of text or headings. To do the same thing in OOo's Navigator, I need to switch to a different window to reorganize headings, but switch back to the editing window to resume editing content. I also need to switch between two windows to split a heading into two sections, switch back to move it, and switch again to resume composing content -- something I can do with a CR and single mouse-drag in Word.
Word: type, type, drag, type, type, [enter], key-combo, type.
OOo: type, type, switch-window, drag, switch-window, type, type, re-style, switch-window, drag, switch-window, type.
Come on guys, suck up the Not-Invented-Here pride and adopt this one feature that MS got right! Or do it one-better and improve on the similar inline hierarchical editing from FrameMaker+SGML. Or innovate some collapsible tag interface from something like the old HotMeTaL from SoftQuad. (But don't trash the Navigator; it *is* useful for final proofing, just not composition)
I think not...(*poof*)
I would LOVE reveal codes. Unfortunately, I don't think that their object model is like WordPerfect, where everything is stuck inside one big layer. I wouldn't expect "reveal codes" to happen in Word or OpenOffice... it would certainly not be trivial to implement.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Yes, is says:
" Available Soon... PDF Import Extension
The PDF Import Extension allows modifying existing PDF files for which the original source files do not exist anymore. "
However, that was August 2007.
From what I've seen, this release still has the absurd 65535 row limit on Calc—the only reason such a limit was acceptable in previous versions was because MS Office didn't yet support more, but now that Office 2007 supports up to 4 million-some-odd rows, there is absolutely no excuse for putting that many or more into OpenOffice.
More than 65K rows is the killer feature that has gotten parts of my company to upgrade to 2007. Until and unless OOo supports it, there's no way we'll be able to use it as a full replacement for MS Office, as much as we'd like to.
Dan Aris
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
I have not looked at any code, so I do not know this for sure. If you can convert the document on the fly to an XML like format then reveal codes should be trivial to implement. Heck, I would accept the XML in a another window/pane as reveal codes.
Sadly, I believe that the OpenOffice developers are thinking the same way, Microsoft has thought of MS Office. The must be thinking, all users are dumb enough to never want anything more abstract than WISIWYG editing with some useless hidden formatting characters shown.
I think Openoffice Writer is a nice product, it is too bad they do not aim to improve it beyond MS Word.
Nothing worse than having garbge/redundent/misplaced formatting staying hidden just to bite me on the next change on a large document. This is still my prime reason to not use OpenOffice (or MS Word) to create any serious document of a substantial size.
You got that backwards there, son. Even though I know you're either trolling or (more likely) astroturfing, I'm going to bite.
I can open a word document with OO. I cannot open an OO document with Word.
I can open a Word Perfect document with OO. I cannot open a WP document with Word.
OO has the cool cachet of the GPL, while Word is just another boring corporate moneymaker.
OO has fewer bugs and faster bug fixes.
OO costs nothing, while stupid people pay good cash for Word that could otherwise be spent on more important things like beer, games, and more beer.
The only thing Word has going for it is that the Uncyclopedia parodies Bill Gates (and even includes a real criminal justice system mug shot of him) but not Scott McNealy. I mean, if Uncyclopedia doesn't make fun of you your software must really suck, right?
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
I can't believe they got to 3.0 and there is still no OpenType font support...
I'll do it!
You'll need to tell me what you mean by 'code' and 'extension' first though.
pffft
This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
Because I'm not that committed to it. $10 is less of an investment than actually writing it (assuming I value my time).
Some poeple consider features to be more important than compatability.
Microsoft Word has many more (and more mature) features than OO.org and your post does not dispute this at all.
+4 "Informative" indeed.
i agree with all but the WP one. word opens WP files just fine, usually.
upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
No, no, no. You have it all wrong. In Unix, everything's a file. In open source, everything's a beta! It seems to be creeping into some proprietary software as well. Actually, I have this theory that the entire universe is just a beta project; it would explain a whole lot about these people around me...
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
Despite my being a huge "fan" and user of Open Source software, I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion.
While OpenOoffice.org has many features that are more than enough for the average user (e.g. Me), Microsoft Office has more and many that many users can't do without.
And Microsoft Office 2007 (once you get used to the "ribbon") is even better than Office 2003, which is better than anything from OpenOffice.org.
Personally, I'm happy with OpenOffice.org in Linux but I'm also open-minded enough to know that it's inferior to Microsoft Office 2003/2007.
It's pretty much a copy of Microsoft Office 2000 (which is 9 years old).
You get what you pay for...
When was the last time you used Microsoft Office and what version was it?
Scott
©20014 angrykeyboarder & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved
Compare OO.o,even the older 1.5,to say,Office 2K(best damned Office released IMHO) the speed will blow you away,even with the hidden Office service disabled. I personally think it is because Sun insists on tying OO.o together with the JRE. But not having tried tearing into the guts of OO.o I can't really tell for sure. All I know is on the 1.0-2.2Ghz 512Mb of RAM equiped machines I come across most often when working on SOHO computers OO.o is simply blown away by any version of Office. Of course,since most of them are running Win2k Pro(best damned Windows released IMHO) they can't run the pretty bloat that is Office 2K7. But I have tried OO.o 1.1-2.2 and have yet to find one that can match the speed and stability of Office 2K or 2K3.
That said, I am downloading OO.o 3 Beta as we speak and since I'm typing this on a 1.1Ghz with 512Mb running Win2K Pro(perfect for testing freeware before offering it to my customers) I'll be installing it and putting it through its paces as soon as the download completes. Maybe like Firefox 3 they've managed to trim some of the bloat,who knows. But IMHO OO.o on anything less than a 2.4Ghz with 1Gb of RAM is just too damned painful. But that is my 02c,YMMV.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I've got no problem what-so-ever with cloning-just wish the cloners paid half as much attention to UI as they do to the features.
That's funny, I've had a company switch to OOo precisely because of the UI. Their sound argument was that Open Source products in general do not change UI so quickly and dramatically, allowing staff to grow with the changes.
The reason for that is simple: FOSS doesn't need an argument other than improvement for a new version. It doesn't need UI drama to give a bunch of sales people an argument to sell a new version, so once staff has been retrained (as they would have been anyway for a new version of Windows -Vista- and Office -2007-) it was equally possible to switch to a Linux build with OO.
The showstopper was in the backoffice to adjust available skills in dev and support in time, so they went half way and switched to OOo only as test. I suspect they'll take the Linux step as well once they've seen how OOo worked for them, but that's at least half a year away.
Insert
... if adding a single word to the dictionary is still a three-click process?
So great. They've released some fancy new version with blah, blah and blah, none of which most people are terribly interested in.
Meanwhile, the thing is still a slow, bloated pig. Do we have to make efficiency some sort of feature, or provide fake goals and a shiny racetrack before people address the fundamentals?
Makes me sick to see open source apps follow the same fated trails as other bloatware
http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3395
BTW: work has started on it.
Obama's legacy: (N)othing (S)ecure (A)nywhere and (T)error (S)imulation (A)dministration
Decisions in the workplace aren't being made by those who spell Microsoft with a dollar sign.
No, it's just that for most people compatibility no longer an issue.
I can't recall the last time I sent a Word/Excel doc to somebody who couldn't open it.
Nor can I recall having a WP file sent to me in the last decade or so. Besides, Word CAN open up WP docs saved in the WP5 or WP6 formats.
Now.. as a developer, I have done some pretty great things with Office. Not so much using Office as the platform (although everyones done a bit of that at some point), but moreso just automating it in C#/Visual C++ using its COM wrapper.
A good example is an MRP we wrote in C# that uses Excel as a reporting platform.
Many here just can't get past the idea that it's closed-source, a MSFT product, etc. Me? I just want to deliver the best software I can. We're a small company. Top Line growth is important. And I don't have the luxury of indulging personal preferences.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
OOo has about the same functionality now that Office had 10 years ago.
We have Word (and Word Perfect) at work, and I don't use anything in it I didn't use ten years ago.
At its best, an unused feature is bloat. At its worst it's a security risk.
If OO lacks a feature you need that Word has, you should buy Word. If not and you still buy Word IMO you're either not thinking clearly or you're spending someone else's money.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Half my damn students.. I occasionally teach undergrads and every semester I make it clear that I will not accept papers in microsoft works format and every semester without fail a dozen students email me a final paper in works format. It came for free on their computer and by and large we're talking about a level of computer illiteracy where they can't actually tell the difference between works and regular office, let alone acquire a copy of either office or OO and install it..
That runs counter to my own experience. OpenOffice feels sluggish even on fast computers, but not a lot slower on slow computers -- at least not as slow as you'd expect. I used it a lot last summer on a Pentium III 500 MHz with 512 MB RAM, and speed was never an issue. I've also used it on a 266 MHz laptop with 320 MB RAM, running Debian, and even that was acceptable in use (it did load slowly, though).
OpenOffice's sluggishness is mostly an issue of feeling. I don't think I've lost even a minute, in total, from using OpenOffice Writer instead of Word on slow computers. In fact, I might have saved a bit of time, due to OOo's far superior styles implementation.
Compare OO.o,even the older 1.5,to say,Office 2K(best damned Office released IMHO) the speed will blow you away,even with the hidden Office service disabled.
Though I agree that Open Office is damn bloated compared to MS Office in terms of Memory usage (the same spreadhseet takes over 100 megs of ram in OpenOffice, vs 15 megs in Excel isn't uncommon) I've learned to live with it, due to the cost/benefit of simply buying more Memory. RAM is damn cheap and has Far more utility, so I would rather buy 1 gig of (laptop) RAM for $50, than buy MS Office.
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If you like reveal codes, you'll probably love LaTeX.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I'll ditto encoderer here:
Plus, there's one feature that really belongs more in the "Basic Functionality" category, and that's accurate word and character counting. As documented on the OOo bug list for some years now, any combination of double-byte Asian text + regular single-byte alphanumeric text results in "word" counts that are worse than useless. A number of Asian languages do not count by "word" so much as by character (and for that matter there still isn't much agreement as to what exactly is a "word" in Japanese). OOo gives a total "word" count for either the document or selection, but does not break out any included Asian text -- which MS Word does, and has done for longer than I can clearly remember (starting maybe with MSO 97?). This makes OOo a non-starter for anyone working with such Asian languages in any situation that requires counts -- which includes just about all academic and professional use.
There's a sample .odt file included in the bug report (direct linky) that clearly spells out the differences in how the two apps count from a UI perspective (can't speak to the internals). I'd love to pitch in with the coding, but I sadly cannot afford the time and energy required to dig through OOo's extraordinarily convoluted API documentation to figure out how to update the source code myself; I started the process, but gave up in disgust at how the docs are organized. I've still got MSO, so until such time as the OOo team can get around to fixing this long-standing bug, and / or produce more sensible API docs, I'll keep using Word.
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Just downloaded the beta to check what has changed since I last tried OOo. Not much as far as I can see.
1) Bullet/numbered lists.
- Still cannot quickly (one mouse drag) change spacing between the text and its bullet/number. Something I can do in Abiword.
- "Clear formatting" does not clear the bullet/number.
2) Still no Normal mode.
3) Keyboard Shortcuts
- Still limited shortcut selection.
- Still assign a shortcut to a special character without recording a macro.
4) The new notes implementation is actually a step back.
- Word compatibility hasn't improved here. You cannot collaborate with people using Word when they use notes. Even if you don't change their notes, not all content is preserved.
- Now I can only see a note on a special page margin, instead of having it as a special markup in text with an option to read it on demand. Moreover, this margin increases with text zoom in Web Layout mode (WTF?)!
- Still cannot assign a note to a range of text.
5) Still cannot search and replace text with a specific named style.
And all of this is only after a cursory look, there is probably much more.
Microsoft Word Viewer - it's free.
There is nothing interesting going on at my blog
yes, but what happens when suddenly the Word Viewer stops working for some obscure new Microsoft Word format? Microsoft has been known to simply stop supporting certain formats. Last year it dropped DBF support for Microsoft Excel.
Embrace, Extend, Exterminate.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Simple:
LaunchD
Bonjour (Dynamic DNS Stuff (mDNS))
iCal Server
Thats just a few
How the heck am I supposed to get used to these Text menus? I need a ribbon!
Perofrmance is one of the reasons I gave up on OOo/NeoOffice and took advantage of the Home Use program my employer offers as part of our MS licensing deal. $20 for MacOffice 2008 is a better value to me than OOo/NeoOffice right now. I can't reliably open Word documents for my wife using NeoOffice, and the whole suite is just a pig. Plus the graphing in the spreadsheet is more trouble than it needs to be as compared to Excel.
Nice to see this out. However I am disappointed that PDF import even when it is ready will only be added as an extension. It should be part of the core. I was also hoping for a few more big features. Even the improved Crop feature in Draw/Impress was a feature that a developer did as a side job in is free time http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/improved_picture_cropping_for_draw Will 3.0 include some of the features that were forked off with Go-OO http://go-oo.org/ ? ie: -SVG support - So we can import Inkscape documents ... remember SVG is a standard also.
-MS-Works import - This would be nice as many home users use this as it cost less then MS Office
-Improved EMF rendering - I have not done this in a while but EMF quality was poor
-WordPerfect Graphics import
-GStreamer integration
-Rich fields support - some of the features OOo people said they would not support.
-Other Go-oo features
I am not trying to start a turf war, but there are some nice features. I would think that there might be time to integrate some of existing code i.e. Works support etc into OOo before 3.0 is final. AS the other features have been sitting in Go-oo they might be considered stable enough to port back to OOo at this beta stage.
and most of them sit there unused...
the majority of ms office users could easily get by with either openoffice or abiword/gnumeric. basic typed documents and simple spreadsheets are the most common types of documents and many users simply do not do anything more "involved" than that, ever, with ms office.
the only reason we have ms office (or windows, for that matter) in our office is because we support users and companies that buy them, and the most common reason they give us as to why they did is simply "because everybody else has them", NOT because they NEEDED them.
we promote and support open source solutions wherever possible. we live and work in a poor, rural part of the US and not everybody has money to burn on things they don't truly NEED. saving a couple hundred bucks or more by skipping ms office and maybe windows, too, is one way a lot of people can save some cash (so they can afford other things like food, electricity and fuel; which are all steadily rising in cost).
so what if the open source product is missing feature XYZ; how many people actually use feature XYZ and is it really crucial to have in the first place? is it worth spending $$$ just to have it? is there another open source product that'll work better? or can you simply do what you need to do a different way and save the money? the beauty of open source projects is that if people do want and need feature XYZ, it stands a chance of being added.. or if you're so inclined, you can add it yourself. how often do big, greedy corporations actually listen to their consumers instead of the ka-ching their money makes when they blindly hand it over?