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In Australia, XP Cheaper Than Linux On Eee 900
KrispyDollars writes "It sounds crazy to say this, but the XP-based version of the Eee PC 900 (the new version with the 8.9" screen) will actually be considerably cheaper than the Linux-based version. At the official launch today, the company told journalists that 'Microsoft has been a longstanding supporter of Asus' to explain the price discrepancy. And — get this — only the XP-based machine will be sold at mass-market retailers, while the Linux-based model will be consigned to computer stores."
I'm pretty sure the only reason the pricing is different is due to the storage factor. I've suspected for quite sometime that Microsoft basically gives away XP & MS Works with Dell computers and now that the price of hardware is dropping, they're going to have to. Works is a real piece of work, FYI
Is it ok to chastise Asus for denying customers the choice of OS independent of HDD size? Yes.
Is it ok to go on a rant about Microsoft's hidden costs? Definitely, in fact I'm sure there's going to be a few +5 insightfuls with that theme.
Is it ok to wig out and claim that Microsoft is cutting deals with Asus to insure the downfall of Linux? No. You're wasting your time--spend it more constructively coding open source or lobbying for your company to use open source.
Asus is free to do as they please and if Microsoft thinks it's a good business move, let them. The funny thing about open source is that you don't have to promote it to end users. It's slowly and steadily being adopted. The end state is open source for everyone everywhere; it's unavoidable; it's just a question of when it happens (and no, I'm not going to personify software or data as 'wanting' to be free because it's about what improves the community not what software 'wants'). As long as Microsoft isn't doing something shady to keep Linux out of the Enterprise, they can do whatever they want. I don't even know how they could do that. If you look at the trends, whatever is adopted by the Enterprise is usually adopted by the single consumer in due time. DoD is starting to mandate open source also.
Ubuntu 8.04 was a marked improvement over 7.10. Aero was on par with XP. Microsoft has parked themselves at the head of the pack and are now relying on Business and Marketing to promote a Technology. It's a good sign of bad times for Microsoft.
So why is everyone fretting? Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Please, don't be one of those guys who preach about open source in a RMS religious zealot style to end users who just want their goddamn iPod to work on their home machine (Oh, by the way, I was pleasantly surprised to find that my shuffle Just Worked when I attached it to Ubuntu 8.04). You're doing more harm than good.
My work here is dung.
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If you live in the East of Melbourne (Australia not Florida), I highly recommend Bitronics.
I've bought all my stuff from them for well over a decade. They opened a shop when I lived in Bayswater, had doom parties, piles of second hand stuff, kept the local teenagers busy, ect. They become pretty big now and lost a bit of that garage feel but they are still light years ahead of ASUS. I've lived by the beach now for ~3yrs but still browse online and pick it up from the warehouse. Not even sure the same guys own it but they will sell you a naked PC, pre-configured, built to order, pre-installed distro, distro on disc, windows, whaterver your poision,,,err...passion.
I've had problems but I've had them fixed without fuss.
Disclaimer: I've been a proffesional developer for ~20yrs. The only relationship I have with bitronics is as a customer, caveate emptor, shop around, and all that.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
We all know that a lot of price conscious Australians will buy the cheaper model and load Linux on it. :) I know I would.
When I buy computers in general, I buy it with the smallest drive and least amount of RAM possible. I know I'm going to upgrade anyway, but the prices the OEMs charge for RAM upgrades and larger drives is ridiculous. Buying with the intent of upgrading is a nice way to save some money if you have the skill and confidence to open it up.
By the way... probably not a correct place to put this new information, but yesterday I came across something that shocked the hell out of me. On Dell's support site, I discovered that not only is there a DOS/Windows BIOS update utility for the Precision M4300, but a Linux version as well!! That has got to be the first Linux BIOS update utility I have ever seen. Perhaps others have seen this, but it was a first for me and Dell is doing it. Unfortunately, my Latitude doesn't have the Linux BIOS update method available yet so I'm still booting from flash drive DOS for updates, but perhaps it's only a matter of time.
Perhaps, without Microsoft interference, Asus would have a $400 12 GB model and a $500 20 GB model. That would more closely match the US prices and falling hardware prices.
(the 701 model, to be clear), I have this to say to Asus: I understand what is your level of commitment to Xandros Linux on your computers, so I hope you will be happy of losing one of your customers. And perhaps some 10-20% of other potential customers, too.
The Eee PC was my first step out of the MS upgrade treadmill nightmare, and you want to pull me right back? Sorry, no can do.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
These PCs have nowhere near the power of a full fledged desktop. The EEE scares MS because it showed that Linux could be user friendly, secure, and cheap- at regular OEM prices, a $400 laptop wouldn't be profitable with an $100+ OEM license for Windows and a $30+ license for works.
To keep people using XP, MS is probably giving away (or close to it) the licenses to ASUS. Combined with the fact that the Xandros is a commercial distro that Asus needs to provide updates for and the additional 8GB of space in the Linux version, it's not terribly suprising.
I'm typing this post on an EEE 4G now, and I'm really pleased with the built in Xandros. Lightweight, Word/Excel/PowerPoint compatible, not prone to viruses. If I was in the market for a new EEE for the price difference and the ability to dual boot with no additional cost I'd probably buy the Windows version and put Ubuntu on it. I have a few Windows specific apps still...
... ASUS had to pay SCO the $699 licensing fee, you cock-smoking tea-baggers.
One of the most common reasons cited for not adopting Linux, is that people perceive things that don't cost anything as being worthless...
In this case, the Linux option is more expensive, and demonstrably superior (larger storage, boots quicker, comes with a much wider selection of applications). How many people will consider the extra $50 worth it for a significantly better package?
Also perhaps people might like to buy the cheaper windows version, and then "pirate" linux to get some of the additional features only usually available on the more expensive model?
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Yes, yes, I know that the hardware is different (12GB drive vs 20 GB) but does anyone really believe that the whole move is anything other than an attempt by MS to prevent Linux from gaining a foothold in the portable PC market? Linux has, because of driver issues, mostly, enjoyed much less penetration in the notebook PC space. The EeePC's dramatic success in being accepted, with Linux OS, is almost certainly cause for alarm at Microsoft. The result, MS cut a deal that was designed to make it far more attractive (from a price standpoint) to go with a choice that includes Windows XP. The goal of this "dumping" is to prevent the continued penetration of Linux into this space.
That may appear insulting to an experienced Linux guru.
;-)
But for many years it used to be Microsoft's best selling point in comparison to Linux:
Windows and Microsoft applications in general are easy to get started with. Only recently, Linux distributions (especially Ubuntu) have managed to catch up in that regard. If you want to sell to a wide audience, an "easy" interface is good.
Of course, it should also have an easily accessible terminal emulation so the gurus can hack on their config files
C - the footgun of programming languages
Wonder if they're using the crapware discount sales model like how Sony and so many others used to do. Not sure if they still do though, haven't bought a PC for a while. If so then it would make sense the the Linux version is more expensive since there are few, if any, crapware titles for Linux.
You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
This is very true, but...
It's all about public perception. The Linux machine can't run Windows apps (at least I don't think WINE's included, and WINE's never a good answer to that problem anyway.) Therefore, it's worse in many people's eyes.
So, now, the Linux machine is more expensive, and perceived to be worse.
This is not good if you want Linux to succeed in the marketplace.
When I buy a new system without Windows and install Linux on it, it's cheaper in the long run even if it costs more up front.
I don't have to waste time scanning for malware constantly or defragging my linux box, so I save time.
I don't have to buy additional commercial software and pay for license keys or trust closed binary warezed alternatives.
In the long run, no matter how much you pay in the store, Linux saves you money and time.
And I don't support a convicted monopoly who has a history of criminal activities across the globe.
If Linux is better than MS window then surely you won't mind paying more to get it?
Red herring. This isn't about us, it's about Microsoft buying market share.
It wouldn't be surprising. I worked for Fujitsu Siemens for a while and they got paid by Microsoft to put the "Fujitsu Siemens recommends Windows XP Pro". Depending on where they put it varied the amount of money they got, so they slowly moved it from "high up the page" to "in the header".
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a similar offer here, plus another offer for selling only the Windows Eees in "select retailers".
At $600, this is not really such a good laptop. I know it's been mentioned before, but they just lost the impulse buyer. Now it's just another laptop, and really not a very good one. I'd say ok, at $400, but at $600 they have priced themselves out of the game.
once more into the breach
A 160GB flash drive is NOT $50.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
And thus your purchase will raise the number of "customers who preferred the professional quality of Windows(TM)".
To me, the whole point of the eee is that it finally lets linux and windows have an unbiased competition with the market for judge: people won't just keep windows because it's preinstalled ( except of course taking linux still means "switching" to something less familliar).
If I was australian and wanted to buy one, I'd throw in the extra cash to show that linux users exist as a demographic.
Don't take my posts literally; it's just code to control my botnet.
IMHO, the biggest reason is to give a clear message that you don't want Windows. People are scrapping their default Windows installs for Linux all the time, but this won't change the huge market share of Windows, which in turn affects hardware and software makers.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
I was thinking the same thing. The fact that Linux is now touted as the 'easy' OS to use is rather insulting to Redmond I would think.
... .er... FREE.
I am concerned that those unfamiliar with Linux will see this and conclude that Linux is expensive rather than
MS has done a good job of making Windows look like the best choice, and IMO this should be investigated using lawyers and stuff as it makes no sense whatsoever if you look at it from the point of view that MS would never stoop to any dirty tricks. Of course, if you are even a tiny bit cynical you can't help but see that this is obviously a questionable business deal that needs to be investigated by those that would destroy monopolies.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
Suggested procedure: 1- Buy XP version. 2- Reformat and install Linux. 3- Ask M$ for refund for the unused SO. Q: Which one is cheaper now?
And this demonstrates that we will never have unbiased (or fair) competition as long as one of the competitors is Microsoft.
So play 'em at their own game. Hold installfests in the parking lots of places selling the things. Whoop it up. FOSS isn't driven by "market share," it's driven by the passion of its developers and users. It isn't going anywhere.
Microsoft may be able to point at some meaningless marketing numbers and say "see, people are choosing Windows, even when Linux is more expensive" and I bet some PHBs will even think that statement makes sense. Doesn't matter, Microsoft will run out of money eventually and FOSS will still be there.
I don't care why you're posting AC
Almost everything they do is web-based and no-one's going to bat an eye once they're told that OpenOffice is $0, works almost exactly like MS Office and can open/save to MS Office documents without a hitch. (Sure, there are exceptions to that, but average consumer isn't going to run into those obscure issues.)
The average consumer might even get outright excited when you mention that merely using Firefox on Xandros gives them better protection from virii and malware than XP, even if they'd paid for a copy of Norton or McAfee. (And without the slowdowns, compatibility problems and hassle of those packages)
And since the eee PC is an intensely personal sort of kit, it's doubtful that Joe or Jane Six-pack is going to pass on it just because it won't supplant the family PC that their kids run games on.
The eee PC simply doesn't have to match up to XP like desktop linux would. It doesn't have to solve all of someone's computing needs. It just needs to be good at the tasks people want a subnotebook for (almost entirely web usage and basic document creation).
// "Can't clowns and pirates just -try- to get along?"
I wasn't trying to claim that any of the three approaches succeeded in making everything "Just Work", I was just illustrating the only three ways it would be possible. Each of the three fails due to a lack in some portion of the implementation.
1.) Either the access point isn't an Apple product, and thereby outside of their control, or there really is a problem in their wifi implementation, which is a failure to adhere to their approach, not a failure of their approach in general.
2.) Microsoft's hegemony isn't universal, and it is certainly not omnipotent. They can get most people to follow their rules, but even those that choose to will not always follow all of the rules, or follow them properly. Again, this is because they don't control everyone, which is a failure to fully implement the approach, not a failure of the approach itself.
3.) You're quite right that not every user wants to hack their system to make it work. The F/OSS implementation is to provide enough users who can and do hack their systems to make it work, and having those users share the fruits of their labor with the rest of the community. Ideally, the manufacturers of hardware and developers of software would become a part of that community, and therefore they would be the "geeks", spreading the use of their product would be their "itch", and the hacking would be done by them to the benefit of their users. Again, the implementation of this approach is not universal, and so it doesn't make everything "Just Work".
There may be other approaches that I've not thought about, but if any of these three were to be successfully implemented, then they could make everything "Just Work". As it is, some organizations have produced various incarnations of these approaches with mixed levels of success, with Apple coming the closest to realizing the ideal of their chosen approach.
http://www.mhall119.com
Surely the reason the Eee PC created such an initial buzz was the price - at the promised $199 or delivered $249 it was in a category of it's own as a cheap, small, notebook/internet applicance. At that price it was more of an impulse purchase than one to be considered too seriously, and the cheap price also made it appropriate for more casual use than a traditional lap top that needs to be treated as a more valuable object. Similar price difference and mental image of a cheap consumer digital point & shoot camera vs an expensive DSLR - different markets.
Asus seem to be determined to lose this new market they created (so new it hardly even has a name) as quickly as they created it. At $500-600 this is now competing with traditional laptops - an underpowered competitor in a large field as opposed to owning a new category they created. Seems dumb to me.
Pricing the Windows model below the Linux one seems to be another bizarre step in the wrong direction.I assumed they were using Linux for the strategic/pricing advantage it gave, but they just threw that advantage out of the window.
Oh, well... at least Asus proved there is a market for a cheap & cheerful $249 notebook / internet appliance... I guess it'll be up to another company to actually take advantage of that market!
And yet, they've been selling the old Linux-only one without apparent confusion for many months now...
I guess if they're positioning this thing as a traditional laptop, it makes sense to be concerned about people's expectations. But I thought the Eee was marketed as an internet appliance that you shouldn't expect to be able to run iTunes on. And the limited capacity (especially of the XP model) leaves little room for big apps like iTunes.
If you ask me, the price point has moved beyond the old, cheap, impulse buy model. It's certainly a better deal than a Mac Air, but Asus is starting to confuse the new category they helped define. And maybe that's by design. Lots of attention and hype. Now they're trying to redirect it toward their higher-margin offerings.
Still doesn't justify charging more to leave off Windows. Anti-trust enforcement is a joke.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
I am Australian and I would do the same if I wanted one.
This is a bit off the topic of the original story, but hopefully relates to the thread.
Another good trick I used just recently to show that there is a market for Linux in Australia is to complain about the OEM OS that comes machines from the viewpoint of statutory warranty.
I bought a notebook which, according to the display in the shop, came with Vista Home Premium. According to MS, Vista home premium has excellent repair tools and can be installed on a 40GB partition, but the version on my notebook could only be installed by wiping the entire machine and taking up the 150GB of the 160 GB disk.
I argued that what they gave me was not Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium as advertised. I pointed out that the box including the term "OEM" did not fully explain the limitations of the included software and that reasonable research into Vista on the Microsoft site gave me a completely different idea of what I was buying. It wasn't until after I opened the box, installed Linux and then wanted to put Vista on a 40GB partition for testing purposes that I found out about the limitations, and then it was only after I called support.
After a several conversations with customer service and tech support, I finally got them to pay for full installation media from Microsoft. I know MS still got their money, but the story has spread through the OEM about how Ubuntu is easier to use and quicker on my notebook than Vista and I have soured the relationship further between MS and a supplier, which according to some candid conversations with support and business people within the supplier is already pretty sour.
I should stress that all the way through the process I was polite. Every time customer service attempted to transfer me to tech support, I explained that the problem was not a technical one, but a business one, namely that they had to provide Vista Home Premium as described on the Microsoft site or they were in breach of the statutory warranty. Every time they said "We don't support downgrading the unit," I politely corrected them, informing them I had upgraded it. Every time they made reference to the "recovery partition", I corrected them telling them that from a customer's point of view wiping the entire system clean is no recovery.
Sure I am only one person, but seeing as you can no longer get a refund for just the OS on an OEM product, if everyone does what I have done instead of silently installing Linux, the manufacturers will start to see that there is a market for desktop Linux here.
I don't therefore I'm not.