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In Australia, XP Cheaper Than Linux On Eee 900
KrispyDollars writes "It sounds crazy to say this, but the XP-based version of the Eee PC 900 (the new version with the 8.9" screen) will actually be considerably cheaper than the Linux-based version. At the official launch today, the company told journalists that 'Microsoft has been a longstanding supporter of Asus' to explain the price discrepancy. And — get this — only the XP-based machine will be sold at mass-market retailers, while the Linux-based model will be consigned to computer stores."
I'm pretty sure the only reason the pricing is different is due to the storage factor. I've suspected for quite sometime that Microsoft basically gives away XP & MS Works with Dell computers and now that the price of hardware is dropping, they're going to have to. Works is a real piece of work, FYI
Is it ok to chastise Asus for denying customers the choice of OS independent of HDD size? Yes.
Is it ok to go on a rant about Microsoft's hidden costs? Definitely, in fact I'm sure there's going to be a few +5 insightfuls with that theme.
Is it ok to wig out and claim that Microsoft is cutting deals with Asus to insure the downfall of Linux? No. You're wasting your time--spend it more constructively coding open source or lobbying for your company to use open source.
Asus is free to do as they please and if Microsoft thinks it's a good business move, let them. The funny thing about open source is that you don't have to promote it to end users. It's slowly and steadily being adopted. The end state is open source for everyone everywhere; it's unavoidable; it's just a question of when it happens (and no, I'm not going to personify software or data as 'wanting' to be free because it's about what improves the community not what software 'wants'). As long as Microsoft isn't doing something shady to keep Linux out of the Enterprise, they can do whatever they want. I don't even know how they could do that. If you look at the trends, whatever is adopted by the Enterprise is usually adopted by the single consumer in due time. DoD is starting to mandate open source also.
Ubuntu 8.04 was a marked improvement over 7.10. Aero was on par with XP. Microsoft has parked themselves at the head of the pack and are now relying on Business and Marketing to promote a Technology. It's a good sign of bad times for Microsoft.
So why is everyone fretting? Just sit back and enjoy the ride.
Please, don't be one of those guys who preach about open source in a RMS religious zealot style to end users who just want their goddamn iPod to work on their home machine (Oh, by the way, I was pleasantly surprised to find that my shuffle Just Worked when I attached it to Ubuntu 8.04). You're doing more harm than good.
My work here is dung.
What the hell, is MS subsidizing them (ie giving away XP and then some) just so they use their OS?
https://dalgamotor.wordpress.com/ - Elektronik beyinlere ozgurluk asisi (Turkish)
What is it with people. If Linux is better than MS window then surely you won't mind paying more to get it? why are you so fixated on how much people are making and instead no fixated on simply what it's worth to you? so What if linux costs them less to Buy?
Besides which it probably cost them more to implement it than MS since I bet they had to hire an entire Engineering staff, at least one FTE plus support folks.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
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If you live in the East of Melbourne (Australia not Florida), I highly recommend Bitronics.
I've bought all my stuff from them for well over a decade. They opened a shop when I lived in Bayswater, had doom parties, piles of second hand stuff, kept the local teenagers busy, ect. They become pretty big now and lost a bit of that garage feel but they are still light years ahead of ASUS. I've lived by the beach now for ~3yrs but still browse online and pick it up from the warehouse. Not even sure the same guys own it but they will sell you a naked PC, pre-configured, built to order, pre-installed distro, distro on disc, windows, whaterver your poision,,,err...passion.
I've had problems but I've had them fixed without fuss.
Disclaimer: I've been a proffesional developer for ~20yrs. The only relationship I have with bitronics is as a customer, caveate emptor, shop around, and all that.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
We all know that a lot of price conscious Australians will buy the cheaper model and load Linux on it. :) I know I would.
When I buy computers in general, I buy it with the smallest drive and least amount of RAM possible. I know I'm going to upgrade anyway, but the prices the OEMs charge for RAM upgrades and larger drives is ridiculous. Buying with the intent of upgrading is a nice way to save some money if you have the skill and confidence to open it up.
By the way... probably not a correct place to put this new information, but yesterday I came across something that shocked the hell out of me. On Dell's support site, I discovered that not only is there a DOS/Windows BIOS update utility for the Precision M4300, but a Linux version as well!! That has got to be the first Linux BIOS update utility I have ever seen. Perhaps others have seen this, but it was a first for me and Dell is doing it. Unfortunately, my Latitude doesn't have the Linux BIOS update method available yet so I'm still booting from flash drive DOS for updates, but perhaps it's only a matter of time.
Perhaps, without Microsoft interference, Asus would have a $400 12 GB model and a $500 20 GB model. That would more closely match the US prices and falling hardware prices.
(the 701 model, to be clear), I have this to say to Asus: I understand what is your level of commitment to Xandros Linux on your computers, so I hope you will be happy of losing one of your customers. And perhaps some 10-20% of other potential customers, too.
The Eee PC was my first step out of the MS upgrade treadmill nightmare, and you want to pull me right back? Sorry, no can do.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
These PCs have nowhere near the power of a full fledged desktop. The EEE scares MS because it showed that Linux could be user friendly, secure, and cheap- at regular OEM prices, a $400 laptop wouldn't be profitable with an $100+ OEM license for Windows and a $30+ license for works.
To keep people using XP, MS is probably giving away (or close to it) the licenses to ASUS. Combined with the fact that the Xandros is a commercial distro that Asus needs to provide updates for and the additional 8GB of space in the Linux version, it's not terribly suprising.
I'm typing this post on an EEE 4G now, and I'm really pleased with the built in Xandros. Lightweight, Word/Excel/PowerPoint compatible, not prone to viruses. If I was in the market for a new EEE for the price difference and the ability to dual boot with no additional cost I'd probably buy the Windows version and put Ubuntu on it. I have a few Windows specific apps still...
Personally, I'd pay an extra $50 for the extra hard drive space, even if both versions used Ubuntu. What is the big deal here?
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
... ASUS had to pay SCO the $699 licensing fee, you cock-smoking tea-baggers.
One of the most common reasons cited for not adopting Linux, is that people perceive things that don't cost anything as being worthless...
In this case, the Linux option is more expensive, and demonstrably superior (larger storage, boots quicker, comes with a much wider selection of applications). How many people will consider the extra $50 worth it for a significantly better package?
Also perhaps people might like to buy the cheaper windows version, and then "pirate" linux to get some of the additional features only usually available on the more expensive model?
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Yes, yes, I know that the hardware is different (12GB drive vs 20 GB) but does anyone really believe that the whole move is anything other than an attempt by MS to prevent Linux from gaining a foothold in the portable PC market? Linux has, because of driver issues, mostly, enjoyed much less penetration in the notebook PC space. The EeePC's dramatic success in being accepted, with Linux OS, is almost certainly cause for alarm at Microsoft. The result, MS cut a deal that was designed to make it far more attractive (from a price standpoint) to go with a choice that includes Windows XP. The goal of this "dumping" is to prevent the continued penetration of Linux into this space.
That may appear insulting to an experienced Linux guru.
;-)
But for many years it used to be Microsoft's best selling point in comparison to Linux:
Windows and Microsoft applications in general are easy to get started with. Only recently, Linux distributions (especially Ubuntu) have managed to catch up in that regard. If you want to sell to a wide audience, an "easy" interface is good.
Of course, it should also have an easily accessible terminal emulation so the gurus can hack on their config files
C - the footgun of programming languages
Wonder if they're using the crapware discount sales model like how Sony and so many others used to do. Not sure if they still do though, haven't bought a PC for a while. If so then it would make sense the the Linux version is more expensive since there are few, if any, crapware titles for Linux.
You want fun, go home and buy a monkey!
I believe the default kernel actually has a bios update driver for dell systems... I've certainly seen it during configuration, but haven't tried using it. I do have an older dell laptop here, so i might see if it works on that.
Props to dell tho, for having a standard way to update their bios, rather than every manufacturer releasing their own crummy dos based update program which expect to boot from floppy and requires you to make your own dos based boot disk.
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When I buy a new system without Windows and install Linux on it, it's cheaper in the long run even if it costs more up front.
I don't have to waste time scanning for malware constantly or defragging my linux box, so I save time.
I don't have to buy additional commercial software and pay for license keys or trust closed binary warezed alternatives.
In the long run, no matter how much you pay in the store, Linux saves you money and time.
And I don't support a convicted monopoly who has a history of criminal activities across the globe.
If Linux is better than MS window then surely you won't mind paying more to get it?
Red herring. This isn't about us, it's about Microsoft buying market share.
Is there any reason why you couldn't just buy the XP version and put a standard Linux distro on there? Has anyone done it? I haven't seen it on www.linux-on-laptops.com.
Check this wiki page.
:wq
At $600, this is not really such a good laptop. I know it's been mentioned before, but they just lost the impulse buyer. Now it's just another laptop, and really not a very good one. I'd say ok, at $400, but at $600 they have priced themselves out of the game.
once more into the breach
A 160GB flash drive is NOT $50.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
What is Asus paying for each copy of Linux and Windows. What applications are included in each desktop. Are they full versions or time limited demos. What are the costs when these are factored in?
davecb5620@gmail.com
only the XP-based machine will be sold at mass-market retailers
There is no crime there! The retailer's job is to offer what the consumer wants with no regard about the wisdom of their choices. When Shuttleworth has enough money to advertise Linux everywhere like IBM did, then the retailer might go for it. Furthermore, the retailer specs the machines far more than the average consumer may comprehend.
While it's interesting to see that they are going cheap on storage to get the price point, it shows that Asus is still getting screwed by Microsoft. You can calculate the spread if you guestimate the OEM in quantity costs of the two drives.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Asus is feeling the wind coming from the next generation of atom laptops that will have very simular specs to the EEEpc, and will be about the same price. Any deal with MS to lower the price of MS will be very welcome to Asus. 50% of people want XP on that kind of box.
However they made the mistake of giving the linux and MS boxes different specs. Why is a mystery to
me.
Did you note there is also a generation of 200euro laptops with linux on them, but with a non-intel compaible cpu?
it's a solid state drive, not a hard drive.
porl
I was thinking the same thing. The fact that Linux is now touted as the 'easy' OS to use is rather insulting to Redmond I would think.
... .er... FREE.
I am concerned that those unfamiliar with Linux will see this and conclude that Linux is expensive rather than
MS has done a good job of making Windows look like the best choice, and IMO this should be investigated using lawyers and stuff as it makes no sense whatsoever if you look at it from the point of view that MS would never stoop to any dirty tricks. Of course, if you are even a tiny bit cynical you can't help but see that this is obviously a questionable business deal that needs to be investigated by those that would destroy monopolies.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
"What is the big deal here?"
The key phrase in the OP is "price conscious Australians", in another post I recommended a local mob who will sell you whatever you want including naked PC's and parts, I did that because like you $50 is no problem, I pay that for a teenager to wash the car at the shopping center every now and then. But I've been fortunate and the computer industry has kept me warm, fed, and in a clean car for ~20yrs now. The last 10 was mostly just me and my daughter, the last 5 just me, the beach, and my "lady friend" who lives down the road.
However it didn't start out that way, 30yrs ago I lived in a trailer with my wife and 2yro son, 25yrs ago I bought an Apple IIE for $80 second hand, it didn't have a monitor so for a while the battle over TV time was like.....the war, I wore an onion on my belt....which was the style at the time...you couldnt get those white ones, you could only get those big yellow ones...now where was I...oh yeah,....... get off my lawn.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Suggested procedure: 1- Buy XP version. 2- Reformat and install Linux. 3- Ask M$ for refund for the unused SO. Q: Which one is cheaper now?
but MSFT still counts that as a sale of windows.
stop buying windows period.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Good for ASUS. Microsoft is putting pressure on ASUS so what do they do? Easy. In the North America the Linux model with more storage space is cheaper than the Microsoft Model. In Europe the Linux model with more storage space is cheaper than the Microsoft Model.
In Australia what does ASUS do? To get Microsoft off of their back in Europe and North America. They throw Microsoft a bone and run the price of the linux unit up in Australia.
I would say someone in Redmond got their pocket picked...
vi +
--
Given enough personal experience, all stereotypes are shallow.
"Works is a real piece of work, FYI ... my signature heavily applies to that software in this case. "
While Microsoft justifiably gets ripped for their bad software (Hello Windows Vista, the Biblical Plague of operating systems), the fact is they make some really good software too. Sharepoint is popular for a reason. Office had marketing help beating out Wordperfect Suite, but frankly, it was better than WS. Windows Server 2003 was good, and Server 2008 looks like it may be great. So it's not like Microsoft doesn't do anything right. And Works has always been one of their better products, IMHO. I think that had they not pushed Office so heavily in the 90's, Works would be more popular today, even for small businesses. It's always been light, fast, and stable for me. In the mid 90's, I did most of my college work in Works... term papers, spreadsheets... it's simple, easy to learn, and cheap, all of which are great virtues for a student. Before the advent of free office alternatives like Open Office, if you didn't have access to MS Office (which was still expensive), Works was by far your best bet. Otherwise, you just had typewriters or simple text editors like Notepad and Wordpad on Windows. I used Works 3.0 for DOS, Works 4.0 on Windows 95, and then Works 4.5 on Windows 98. I've got fond memories of using them. I loved the old unified base code model that MS used for Works from 1.0 to 4.5; it made Works incredibly fast on just about any hardware.
Microsoft made some hellish software, but Works was not among them. I've still got Works 6 on a home PC that my son uses for school papers as well.
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Sort of defeats the purpose of the ultra-portable if you are going to be lugging around a full-sized laptop drive with you everywhere.
Not to mention the battery hit.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
two things...
These are the prices for two separate channels, apples and oranges, different discount rates etc.
If M$ has made a deal with ASUS on this to get the lower price think about the message they are sending to other manufacturers: "If you are succesful selling a Linux computer we will give you a better deal". If I'm Dell I'm thinking how I can ramp up the number of linux boxes out the door.
I am not here to dis Windows XP. I like Windows XP.
However, the whole point of the Asus Eee PC is that it is a stripped down unit for common tasks, generally net-based. You write a letter or short text on an Eee, you surf the net, you check your email, maybe SSH into a UNIX host.
For this, even for longtime Windows users, a light implementation of Linux is probably better. There are fewer licensing issues. All necessary tools are built in. It can maximize the limited processor, memory and disk of the Eee.
I could see installing Windows 2000 on one, sort of, but in my experience, the overhead of Linux is a lot less because it does not have to support binaries from the past 3500 generations of Windows.
Please, let us return to sanity. You may want Windows XP on your full-size HP laptop, but on your Eee, go light.
See:
Asus Micro Laptop Brings Linux to Desktop
technical writing / development
NewEgg started to take orders on the new Asus Eee 900 PCs and the new Eee PCs are ready to ship.
ASUS Eee PC 900 12G XP and the ASUS Eee PC 900 20G each sell for $549.99. If you prefer Windows XP you get 8GB less of flash memory. Besides that difference both Asus Eee PC 900 are the same.
More details.
Tell me now, when MS and Apple are sold because they are more user-friendly and point and click oriented, then they get to sit on shelves of every shop.
And when Asus touts about Linux being user-friendly and point and click oriented, then how come it is still MS sitting on the shelves?
There is no mocking of MS - they are the ones at gaining edge.
Go for Dell Vostro 1310 , more value for our bucks, 13" 1280x800 and 80 Gb hard disk, about
the same price of the 8.9" EEE....
But instead of really long battery life, a drop proof solid state hard drive, you get a bigger heavier laptop with shorter battery life and maybe a 3 year hard drive life.
The small form factor, long battery life, and full features (Not a PDA) is the attraction for these machines. These features at this price point is nice.
The truth shall set you free!
Of course, it should also have an easily accessible terminal emulation so the gurus can hack on their config files ;-)
Ctrl-Alt-T brings up an xterm and there are two tools called "Easy Mode Editor" and TweakEE that allow other things to be changed including changing the xterm to something nicer like Konsole.
I've considerably tweaked the one I'm using. OpenOffice 2.4 instead of the included 2.0. I built the latest MPlayer from Debian Unstable on an Etch* machine with all codecs and so-forth enabled and installed that as well as various nice things for the sysadmin on the go. Unlike most Macs and Windows machines, it recognizes my USB-to-RS232 dongle immediately and I have a dterm binary sitting on it for configuring switches and the like. It is excellent for little jobs like that since the unit is so "toolbag friendly".
I also ditched the XP-like Icewm them since it is waaay to hard on the limited screen real estate. I'm currently running a very plain but functional theme that saves 32 pixels or so of the limited screen height.
Asus doesn't tout it as such but it is really quite friendly to the experienced Linux user. It is even friendlier if you can endure what it takes to remove the unionfs they use to idiot proof it and go to a straight ext2 partition.
* As long as you don't touch the tweaked QT or kdelibs they are using, you can install any package built for Debian Etch that you like. I have an Etch buildhost I use for anything nifty I want but don't have.
Sorry, but they just don't:
1. The "Apple Way"--where Apple controls it all, is the most likely way for casual users to get a "just works" experience, but even that isn't perfect or seamless. Case in point: My wife's MacBook has trouble staying connected to the wireless access point... that's located 15 feet away. And there's nothing I can do about it, because Apple controls it all.
2. The "Microsoft Way"--the "make things work by fiat" idea is indeed what Microsoft wishes for, but anyone who has dealt with driver issues, flaky 3rd party software, or the dreaded BSOD knows that this emperor has no clothes. Microsoft WISHES they were like Apple (where they control both software and hardware and about 95% of things "just work") but Bill G's no Steve J.
3. The "Open Source Way"--despite the fanatical rantings of RMS and other drinkers of the Koolaid, most people who are using computers aren't going to be able to "hack the code" even if all the specification are open and all the necessary information is available.
And in case you missed it, for 90+% of users, hacking the code or recompiling the kernel != "just works." In any event, just because such hacking is _possible_ doesn't mean it's going to happen. In fact, unless it scratches the itch of some particular geek, it's as unlikely to happen as Microsoft fixing buggy driver issues or Apple admitting to flaws in their wireless implementation.
I guess what I am essentially arguing here is that (for consumers) Apple's model is the most likely to produce something that "just works" (but if it doesn't, you're hosed) and Microsoft's model is the least likely to produce the same. FOSS is somewhere in the middle at the moment--I'm looking forward to a time when it can give Apple a run for their money in the consumer space.
Interested in a Flash-based MAME front end? Visit mame.danzbb.com
Regulation 1/2003
Unfortunately it's in Austrlia.
Try it here, I dare you.
Matt
Well now we all know that Australians pay more for quality...
True, I started with Windows, and I guess that makes it appear easier. But I still think it is easy enough at least for beginners' tasks.
:-)
To stay with the CD Rom example, the average newbie will be happy with a nice GUI where he can drag and drop some files and hit the "burn" button. Most burn programs I've encountered over the years provide that.
On the other hand, the experience changes when you use Microsoft stuff seriously. Then you will start to notice all the little inconsistencies and old bugs that have been unfixed for years. But to get there, you need to pass the newbie stage first which many people never do.
So if Linux wants to compete in the mass market, it has to achieve at least equal ease of use for newcomers. I think distributions like Ubuntu are quite good at that
C - the footgun of programming languages
"the Linux version is suited to users who desire an icon-driven and easy point-and-click interface â" well suited for children or users with limited computer experience""
That's PRAISE, not flak! Asus needs to sell their product to the GENERAL PUBLIC, not to a few geeks who (should) be smart enough to IGNORE adverts and judge the machine on its own merits.
Introducing "children" and "users with limited computer experience" to a positive Linux experience is arguably more important for widespread adoption than trying to sell to elitists. The geeks already own Linux machines, and probably didn't buy them pre-loaded.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Surely the reason the Eee PC created such an initial buzz was the price - at the promised $199 or delivered $249 it was in a category of it's own as a cheap, small, notebook/internet applicance. At that price it was more of an impulse purchase than one to be considered too seriously, and the cheap price also made it appropriate for more casual use than a traditional lap top that needs to be treated as a more valuable object. Similar price difference and mental image of a cheap consumer digital point & shoot camera vs an expensive DSLR - different markets.
Asus seem to be determined to lose this new market they created (so new it hardly even has a name) as quickly as they created it. At $500-600 this is now competing with traditional laptops - an underpowered competitor in a large field as opposed to owning a new category they created. Seems dumb to me.
Pricing the Windows model below the Linux one seems to be another bizarre step in the wrong direction.I assumed they were using Linux for the strategic/pricing advantage it gave, but they just threw that advantage out of the window.
Oh, well... at least Asus proved there is a market for a cheap & cheerful $249 notebook / internet appliance... I guess it'll be up to another company to actually take advantage of that market!
And just like that the Eee stopped being cool.
The people who gave the Eee hype, coolness and momentum didn't care about Windows applications, they cared about a useful gadget with its own merits - that's what the 701 stood for. But bowing to the Microsoft pressure, as reflected by pricing and distribution channel choices, makes it just another cheap, underpowered, ergonomically challed micronotebook.
It was fun while it lasted.
I converted my house to Linux around the time of the Fiesty Fawn Beta. I did keep one XP partition to keep my wife (and my games) happy. At first, my wife hated Linux and refused to use it. However, over time it grew on her, especially once I showed her the ease and flexibility of the Synaptic package manager.
After awhile, she began to really value the power Linux provided to her over the hand-holding Windows takes. We recently purchased a Eee for her. She installed KDE on it herself. Her only complaint so far? It wasn't obvious how to open a terminal from within the initial setup. 8^)
My wife's not a technical person (horticulture major), she needed Linux to pass a certain threshold of "ease of use" before she could get into it - but once she did she came to appreciate that Linux exposes more control to the user than Windows and as a result feels easier to use.
Any plan which depends on a fundamental change in human behavior is doomed from the start.
At the end of the day, this will hurt Asus because they have penetrated a niche market and are now throwing that advantage away. But the bigger question is can Microsoft afford to bribe all manufacturers who want to get into this market? Probably not.
At last there is a real way to make a profit:
1. Buy cheaper Windows Eee PC
2. Reload with Linux
3. Sell better performing Eee PC at the Linux price
4. Profit
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
that you were wrong VxWorks is the only OS to have slipped the surly bonds of Earth, I accept VxWorks is only as good or bad a tool as you wield it.
Linksys hasn't done a great job meeting the needs of its consumers with VxWorks. My impression is busybox (stripped Linux from the original GL) was marginally more robust in their implementation. The real advantage is the community was able to greatly improve on Linksys's busybox implementation, but are not reasonably able to do anything with VxWorks.
...last year. They were offering a low-end laptop with Vista Home for, IIRC, $550. I thought I had a need for a Windows laptop at the time, and I called to inquire whether I could get it with XP instead.
The rep said, "Certainly, sir, but it will cost a little more. What do you want for your configuration?"
I said "Exactly the same hardware configuration, just with XP instead of Vista."
The rep said... "OK. Your price on that will be... $950."
I said "Whoa! That doesn't seem right to me. Why are you charging $400 more for XP?"
They said "We aren't, sir. $950 is our standard price. The system you saw advertised is a specific configuration and that's a special promotional price, which only applies if you take the exact configuration that was advertised."
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
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This is yet another example of Microsoft illegally maintaining its monopoly.
DOJ, Europe, are you paying attention?
It is financially impossible for the "for profit" companies ASUS and Microsoft, to team up and replace a free component (Linux) and bring the cost of a product lower with a new component (Windows) UNLESS Microsoft is paying to keep Linux out of the hands of consumers. This is selling Windows below market value to eliminate competition. This is illegal in any nation that has anti-monopolist laws like U.S.A and the members of the European union.
Will the DOJ and the European agencies please do something about this!?! It harms the very fabric of the computer industry.
I live in Melbourne Florida, you insensitive clod...... ;)
(We have a store called "BITS" that's good for getting parts to build your own PC. For piles of used stuff, we have "AstroToo". Not that you insensitive big-city peeps should care about that.)
It's funny because at my work, I've been convincing Windows admins that have never touched Linux before that Linux is superior, simply because so many important things (TM) can be done by booting a LiveCD:
1. Need to recover a Windows administrator password you forgot? Here's an NTpasswd LiveCD that will do it for you... "Funny how you need to use Linux to recover your Windows password," I say as I hand them the CD.
2. Need to update firmwares on your server? Here's a Firmware Maintenance CD that boots into Linux.
3. Need to repartition or grow/shrink your NTFS partitions? Here's a gparted CD that boots Linux.
4. Need to virtualize your Windows servers? Well guess what? VMware runs on Linux too.
The ability of Linux to function as a low-level "need to get the job done but don't want to pay the MS tax" operating system is selling open-source to the otherwise clueless Windows admins of the world. Seriously, we've all been there at one point in our career. Using DOS or Windows or whatever OS you grew up on because you don't know any better. Then you learn what a real OS is and you move up to UNIX and Linux.
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
When I buy low-end PCs from Dell, I always order whatever Windows machine is on sale. Windows has great support for CD/DVD drives, and that really helps with accurately reading my LiveCDs. Now that we have Wubi, Windows is an even better OS for boot-installing Linux.
Say what you will about Microsoft, they DO have some great software out there and they are the most popular OS on the planet. So, why not just go with what they're good at, and be happy?
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
Basic tasks like mastering a cd require examining whatever shiny looking and unusable GUI they came up with.
As opposed to examining some unusable GUI an OSS developer slapped together with what last week's trendy widget library was ? Or having to figure out the cryptic commandline switches to some CLI app (assuming you can even figure out what the app even is in the first place) ?
For future reference, these kind of misdirection techniques tend to work OK in a conversation, but fall flat on their face when there is a written record of the exchange, ala Slashdot.
(Ironically, with bloatware like XP the difference between 12 and 20 Gig is important and might "make or break a system", while with Linux you would be correct in assuming that the 8 Gig would all be extra storage space for the user.)
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
And yet, they've been selling the old Linux-only one without apparent confusion for many months now...
I guess if they're positioning this thing as a traditional laptop, it makes sense to be concerned about people's expectations. But I thought the Eee was marketed as an internet appliance that you shouldn't expect to be able to run iTunes on. And the limited capacity (especially of the XP model) leaves little room for big apps like iTunes.
If you ask me, the price point has moved beyond the old, cheap, impulse buy model. It's certainly a better deal than a Mac Air, but Asus is starting to confuse the new category they helped define. And maybe that's by design. Lots of attention and hype. Now they're trying to redirect it toward their higher-margin offerings.
Still doesn't justify charging more to leave off Windows. Anti-trust enforcement is a joke.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
Yes, it sure is a far cry from their previous position on the price difference:
"Cost would be one of the reasons, but not the main one," Ho said in an e-mail. He then proceeded to trumpet the Linux-based system. "Also, [the] Linux version is our main Eee PC model with our unique interface, so the consumer not only can get the great and easy-to-use interface on the Linux version but extra storage space," Ho added....
I am waiting for MSI Wind.Me too, but I really wish they would put out some more info on pricing and launch date. I'm not gonna wait around forever; I may just say fsck it and get the eee 900 anyway if I don't hear more from them soon...
You haven't? As a long time Xandros Business user I would recommend you give them a try. They have a free trial on their website,and if you need a Linux that will play nice with the corporate AD network,or one that just works out of the box and lets you install Windows apps when you need them (comes with Crossover) you really can't go wrong. For me it was the fact that they were the only one out of 30+ distros I tried that would work out of the box with the evil Broadcom BCM4318 that came with my Dell laptop. IMHO a great distro for a mixed business environment or for those that just want everything to work without tinkering. But that is my 02c,YMMV. But since it has a free trial all it takes is a little time,so form your own opinion.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
Man, that's totally upside down!
Many Aussies I have known were not conscious, price or otherwise.... /ducks
As others have handily pointed out, you can just as easily load Linux onto the 12 GB model. So the difference in free space is 8GB. As I pointed out, consumers will either use a lot of space, or a small amount of space, and it is highly likely that the extra 8GB will be unnecessary for those that use a small amount of space, and not be enough for those who use a lot of space. It would be foolish to consider these machines as anything more than light office work and web-browsing, perhaps some media usage as well.
A 60GB External Hard Drive would provide the additional storage space you would need (potentially) at the same price. All you do is just put it in your laptop bag and take it with you. Plug it in, with your laptop, where ever you sit down and you have access to all your files without draining any batteries. If you need to access those files while in no-outlet location, then preemptively move them over to the laptop beforehand.
The bigger question would be, would the users that would require more than 20GB break a 72GB or 80GB threshold? Even so, it becomes a pointless question, since adding more storage space will be cheaper via a larger external hard drive.
This is ultimately a debate about storage space. If you need 20GB of solid state memory for applications, then I would seriously question whether the customer should even be buying this device.
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
... typing this on my shiny 900 (delivered yesterday, UK), interesting to note that the 20GB linux-loaded version still has a large section in the manual on "how to install XP". I wonder if the 12GB version has a section on installing Xandros...
Computer OEMs do not just put a lot of parts together and tally the cost, multiply by some magic number and so set a price. They pick price points, for example $499, that they think will hit a market segment favorably and then calculate their margins. If $499 is the price point, it is $499 with Windows or with Linux. Quite often different models are priced to make one or another individual model look attractive by the comparison. They may price a good deal at $499 and set a real bare bones model at $449 and an upscale at $699. The user sees that he gets a lot more for an extra $50 with the middle model and doesn't loose much by not going the next $200 and so the $499 looks like a sweet spot. These guys are not geeks or rubes. They sell tens of millions of units a year and have tens of billions of revenues.
I have Linux working on Victory Stele of Merneptah..
A learning experience is one of those things that say, 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - D. Adams
Or, you know, try a modern Ubuntu. Burning is trivially easy, and does, in fact, have a nice GUI.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
First, Microsoft is forced to backpedal on it's announced kill-off of XP, I suspect precisely because of the introduction of the ASUS eee. (Balmer didn't anticipate a popular move to machines which deliberately sport lower power. Vista was released on the assumption that machines keep getting faster and stronger, and lamer companies like HP were happy enough to oblige by designing their "2133 Mininote" to handle Vista, which is why they're going to fail to achieve any sort of dominance. The hip and trendy market, while usually as silly and as easily misled as a highschool girl, are surprisingly astute when it comes to matters of intent with regard to wanna-be pretenders. (Crocks still sell like hotcakes, but the next factory-formed plastic sandal-thing which is basically identical but made by the wrong company gets the brush-off.) --And who'd have thunk that the next big thing in computers was going to appeal to the iPod user market where what kind of operating system being used is kind of, 'who cares?' (My girlfriend would be happy with a pink eee, and doesn't know a Linux from a Window. It's the device, not the OS which counts.)
So it's damage control time! MS awkwardly announces the extension of the XP life line. But that's not good enough, because ASUS announced the now famous deal, (the eee900 with Linux costs the same as XP but has a bigger drive.) You just know a number of MS employees have had some late nights and stomach troubles over that one. So now they're not just extending the XP life, but actually giving it away just to maintain their hold on the public perception. And I wonder. . . How many Linux-baked eee's does it take to shift the paradigm with regard to OS's? We may not find out as soon as I'd like if this latest desperation move by MS pans out. At least, not this year anyhow. (How far off is the next new Microsoft OS from release? Ha ha. That's Balmer's stress response you can smell in the wind over Redmond.)
Australia also has a test-bed sort of feel to it, but I can't point to anything which confirms this. Just a feeling.
In any case, I find it fascinating how all of these moves have been put together within just a few weeks. There must have been some heated international telephone calls and business meets going on. None of this has had the time to gestate like a normal evil corporate plan. It feels young and fresh and desperate and nobody knows how it will all turn out. Cool! (I'd be happy if ASUS continued to ship another few million eee700's with Linux on them, introducing a new flavor of OS to the public in the form of an easy-to-use and fast booting OS. That'll make them ask when it comes time to buy their next laptop or desktop, "How come it has to come with Windows? Can't you just sell me one with one with something like my eee had? I should get a discount that way, shouldn't I?").
And that's all a fairly grand achievement for ASUS, even if it was unintentional; to make Microsoft dance around in fear of losing its legitimacy with the young & trendy market? That's hilarious!
Anybody else see that video of the two eee700's booting up next to each other, one with Linux and one with XP? Saving an extra 20 seconds of your life every time you hit 'On' is easily worth $50. And so is the extra drive space. It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out over the next few months. For my part, I'm still waiting for that Atom chip. . .
-FL
If that really worked, Linux would've been an instant hit long ago. Windows is easy to use, thus it's a toy -- on Linux, you have to use a command line! Real Men use Linux!
Ease of use was once Windows' strength, and is now Linux's weakness? WTF?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Did I read that right? ...So that's how they do it. The original OS can be in one folder, which is then unionfs-mounted over another folder, so that you can change anything you like, and still be able to trivially revert. Cool.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
So wat's the big deal? Quality wise Xp is way cheaper than Linux not just in Australia but world over ..
Assuming you can even run it off the battery.
Most external drives need to be plugged in, which, to me, defeats the whole point of having additional storage in a laptop.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
"Asus is free to do as they please and if Microsoft thinks it's a good business move, let them."
But Microsoft has a monopoly and they have shown for decades, that they are using it to gain an unfair advantage. Maybe other companies are would be doing the same, or are doint the same. But Microsoft IS the company that HAS the monopoly in the desktop os market. Given what we have seen of Microsofts business practices it is very likely, that they used some of their monopoly power to arrange this pricing.
I mean why would Asus not sell cheap models with Linux and less hard drive space or models with the same space and price with both options for the os.
Nobody needs to fret about it, though. That's just the way Microsoft is, and has always been, conducting business.
...when facing superior competition.
Historically it has been that way most of the time.
Only recently Windows has been expensive because there's no realistic competition to XP/Vista.
However, no matter how much money do they have, they can't be cheaper than free.
We are Turing O-Machines. The Oracle is out there.
So, why do these Retail stores keep putting OSS based products into their shelves? Stupid sales people, linux doesn't sell; there is no market!~
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Windows does not run non-Windows software -- including a large amount of great software that runs on Linux. But being either a Microsoft shill, or one of the "users" who learn about software from Microsoft ads, you wouldn't know what it is.
Heck, on a small laptop Windows won't runs a lot of Windows software in any usable manner.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
What a PITA. It'd be so handy to have at work, but I can't connect it to the domain unless I put XP Pro on it, so it will still cost another A$150 or so to (legally) put the right (for me) OS on it.
Just because they are lying down in the gutter, eyes closed and not responding to external stimuli... you try take their wallet or sell them a lame horse... We were bred from the Irish and the Scotts... Blam Poms thought they had it over us!
Semi-automatic amateur armchair Australian philosopher; conjecture ready at any moment...
Here's an example where you might still need Widows, especially for a mobile device such as the eeepc: PowerPoint. OOo Impress sucks hard.
Linux: AUD $649;
Windows: AUD $799.
If you opt for the 12 GB XP model then it costs the same at: AUD $649 (stated in the description for the Linux model).
The AUD $599 XP models are the 7" eeePCs with extra RAM and a TV tuner bundled.
APC Magazine must have it wrong!
Well, when I need to power point my mobile device, I usually use a modified Weaver Stance with a firm, two-handed grip.
Oh, you mean MS Office Power Point?
Hmmm, so when I get a Power Point presentation with an email, I need to find a widow? Can I just go next door and kill my neighbor's husband and make her a widow....next door where it's convenient for the next time?
Who knows, maybe she sucks hard too!
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
There is no longer welfare in America, Bubba.
Sure there is. It's called the Earned Income Tax Credit, and even if you have no tax liability you are still "entitled" to it and more children = more tax credit. Note that more than 40% of the USA adult population has zero federal tax liability. They did not abolish welfare; they gave it a new name and a new face. It's still the same ol' idea though - income redistribution. This kind of micromanagement of our lives via carrot-and-stick tactics is precisely why an income tax is a bad idea. There is a good reason why the Constitution had to be amended to allow an income tax, and it wasn't because the Founders accidentally forgot to include it.
At any rate, the persistence of some kind of welfare that always rewards having children you can't really afford is simple (to put that another way, since your sensibilities seem rather tender, the reason why there is no government incentive to remain childless is simple). Our economy is based on lending money at interest. This is thanks to the idiotic decision to abandon the gold standard and embrace the private corporation known as the Federal Reserve. Basically, this means that if the population does not continue to grow, the economy collapses in a way that will make any "recession" seem like a picnic. So, whether it's really a good idea or not, whether there is any logical or moral justification for it or not, whether it's a sound long-term investment or not, and whether it is their province or not, the government has a strong vested interest in encouraging people to reproduce.
Actually, most people who were on AFDC were as white as me, and I have hazel eyes, you stupid racist dumbass.
The question is not whether a counter-example like you exists. The question is not whether there are more white people who received welfare than black people who received welfare. The pertinent question is, proportional to their percentage of the population, which group received more subsidies? There really is no debate about that one. The only debate is whether it is caused by racism or by things like a culture that does not value education etc.
The last thing an American tourists says after poking a saltwater croc with a stick is: "Jebus, it's alive!!!".
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
As far as I can see, the rampant and excepted piracy which is so prevailent throughout Australia, and has been for years, is forcing Microsoft, ISPs and similar to be far more competitive than previously.
For instance most students pirate the tools they need to study, so Microsoft released the "It's Not Cheating Sale" which happens every year and they sell Office Ultimate for $75 AUD. I haven't heard of this sort of thing happening in any other market, where the sale wasn't linked to buyers with huge buying power (Eg. Dell).
I believe the primary difference is Australia's pirating "tradition", since even in the early days of software piracy here has been rampant and a part of every day life.
This is my footer. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
We have something similar here in Australia too, our Trade Practices Act 1975 (Vic) s 46—Misuse of market power. It'd be difficult to prove MS wouldn't be have been able to do this without their market power, though.
I don't know how much 12GB or 20GB SSDs cost (they haven't penetrated the Australian market); the only SSDs I could find online were ExpressCard SSDs. Amongst those, there's a $100 difference between Lexar's 16GB SSD and its 32GB one. 16G/32GB are massively different from 12/20GB, but the comparison shows that the price difference may be explainable by the different SSD. Yes, I may be wrong in using Australian prices since Asus doesn't do its manufacturing here, but then neither does Lexar. I can only presume price difference in Australia is somewhat linked to the price difference overseas, where both Lexar and Asus do the manufacturing.
As to the price of XP, an OEM disc of Windows XP Home costs about $100. Xandros Desktop Professional costs $99 to download. Those are end user prices. Asus would probably be able to secure further discounts. The question would then be whether Microsoft was supplying Windows XP to Asus at prices only explainable as an attempt to use their market power. I don't think Microsoft is stupid enough to give Asus Windows XP for free—that would be clearly a use of market power. Short of that, any price they charge may be explained as an aggressive attempt to counter what they view as their biggest threat.
But Microsoft isn't competing with a free component. They're competing against another "for profit" company: Xandros. Xandros Desktop Pro (which is the closest thing I can find to what the Eee must be running) costs about $100 USD. Add $50 on top if you want to buy patent protection. Without the patent protection fee, that's comparable to a new Windows XP Home OEM CD.
If the software costs about the same, the $50 premium for more SSD space starts looking reasonable.
Nice story, but it doesn't seem to coincide with the prices quoted (for actual pre-ordering) on the ASUS Australia website. http://www.asusnotebook.com.au/eee-pc.php They have what look to be identical 20Gb e900's listed for $799(XP) and $649 (Xandros). That's a AUS$150 saving on the Linux machine. The eeePC (4Gb) sells at a $100 price difference between the XP and Linux versions. I can't find anything (other than the vaguely sourced story quoted above) that suggests any other pricing.
MS is probably financially supporting ASUS to make sure they don't release a Linux version to the mass market retailers.
Now, if MS really felt that XP was so superior to Linux then why are they paying to prevent Linux from being offered to the mass market stores?
Just one more example of how Microsoft prevents choice and impedes competition. It's been over 20 years now this has been going on.
Only boring people are ever bored.
Another thing that I have to consider is the voltage rating of a device (if it uses mains power) since Australia has 240V AC and the US has 110v AC. Of course a universal power supply is fine but it would be very annoying if I got a product that only took 110V AC,
From a personal perspective I have found that most consumer goods in Australia are not that much more expensive than the same product overseas but as I have said before it pays to do some research first.
I suppose I better get back on topic but I normally put Linux (Fedora to be precise) on any PC I own because I find that Linux offers the most usability for anything I want to do and IMHO it is fun. I unfortunately have to pay the Microsoft tax but since I get a new laptop from my work at a very good discount I save the MS Windows OS (now Vista Ultimate) and when I sell the laptop (usually every 12 months) I make a small profit but I do give the buyer the option of a fully working Fedora or any Linux of their choice or even Windows Vista. No prizes on guessing the OS most buyers want and what they have to pirate (what's this "pay for") to get the software they think they require:-)
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
The difference of price is linked to the difference of HW, AND the presence of MSN Live.
Read in the article.
"Holtham made much of the presence of Windows Live applications on the box"
This pretends to be an "asset" for the user, in reallity Microsoft is bribing Asus to put Windows Live into the box.
It is a telco game, and we are loosing...
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun