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NBC Activates Broadcast Flag
I Don't Believe in Imaginary Property writes "NBC activated the 'broadcast flag' on a number of shows this week, ranging from American Gladiator to Medium, which prevented compliant programs like Windows Media Center from recording them. The matter is being 'looked into,' but that doesn't tell us whether it was an accident or a ploy to see how outraged viewers would be at being stripped of the time-shifting rights they've enjoyed ever since Sony v. Universal. Just in case it's the latter, it wouldn't hurt to let them know what you think."
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
"It seems the flag only triggered copy protection measures in Vista, as one of our staffers with a DirecTV HD DVR recorded Gladiators as usual, and a TiVo spokesperson told CNet that the company had not received any complaints."
:)
Well well, another reason NOT to use Vista MCE. If you simply ignore a broadcast flag this only annoys people who pay for commercial software. I, on the other hand, couldbuild a MythTV box without any problems whatsoever
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Not the XP drivers or TiVo. Microsoft should be answering this.
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/45/262419/ShowThread.aspx
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Use non-compliant software. Or software you (or someone for you) can make non-compliant.
If you use software you have no control over it just suits you right to get shafted once in a while by it.
Vote with your money.
Nobody can be fired for patriotically pressing a button that they thought would fly an American flag!! If your average person saw a big button marked 'Broadcast Flag', what would they think? :)
which is totally what she said
Fred Rogers would shake his head and shed a tear. (from wikipedia) During the controversy surrounding the introduction of the household VCR, Rogers was involved in supporting the manufacturers of VCRs in court. His 1979 testimony in the case Sony Corp. of America v. Universal City Studios, Inc. noted that he did not object to home recording of his television programs, for instance, by families in order to watch together at a later time. This testimony contrasted with the views of others in the television industry who objected to home recording or believed that devices to facilitate it should be taxed or regulated.
meh
Most people don't get fired for a single mistake. This isn't The Apprentice. In the real world people need to be replaced and that's a costly process. The person who made the mistake will know not to do it again.
More importantly, this person knows not do to that. The new person they hire will not have received this training information.
Rod Taylor
Tell the advertisers for those program that you're really currious about their support NBC in using the broadcast flag. Not only did you get the opportunity to miss that program, but you didn't get to see any of the ads for their company promoting their products, sales, events, or anything else they were interested in letting you know about.
Believe me, word will get back to NBC that it's not to their advantage to follow such tactics.
You never know...
Just watch the video. It would make a great gift. http://www.mythpvr.com/mythtv/distribution/mythdora/4/install-1.html
Instead of a broadcast flag , I want a quality flag .. one that stops shows like American Gladiator from even being broadcast.
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If that was the case then our corporate mannagers would not be required to beat expectations every quarter and we would not be in the financial mess we are in now. No, in western corporate culture there is only one rule and that is you must make or better your corporate numbers and if you do any thing that causes that not to happen you are gone.
Undetectable Steganography? Yep, there's an app fo
Unless it's Heroes, it's not worth watching anyway. Tell NBC what you think by... oh, I don't know... NOT WATCHING? Just tell NBC that you're "going green," they'll understand.
The same thing happened in Germany last week. Pro7Sat1 did send an anti recording signal and many users of DVR could not see a thing.
According to company which runs the satellite signal, it was just an technical error.
could someone remind me again what this "NBC" thing is, and why I should care?
It's this place where people watch programs interrupted by commercials at the time least convenient to them, and have to wait a whole week between episodes; instead of downloading them one season at a time and watching them whenever you want...
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
This brings up what I think is the biggest potential for unfair use of DRM: restrictions that are built into the technology and acknowledged by fine print in the user agreement, but not enforced until after millions of consumers have already purchased the product.
There's nothing new about this. You can waste an awful lot of time reading contracts and discovering that you've agreed to obnoxious things... and that there's not an awful lot you can do about it because all the competitors have similar contracts... and that, surprise, surprise, the employee behind the car rental counter is not interested in striking out clauses and negotiating contracts with an individual customer with a line behind him.
What's new is the potential for cheap, automatic, mechanical enforcement at some later date.... and the consumer's inability to know the company's real intentions.
When you buy something with unenforced DRM you are truly buying a pig in a poke.
The free market can't operate in the absence of the buyer having reasonable information on what they're buying. In the case of unenforced DRM, that means not just the theoretical existence of restrictions, it means that companies should be required to disclose a policy on their intentions for future enforcement... a policy that must be included in the contract for the contract to be valid, and one which they can be held to in the future.
It should be use-it-or-lose-it. A company that fails to use automated restrictions for a long period of time, and has failed to disclose clearly its intention of using them in the future, ought to right to enforce them.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Perhaps they're testing to generate articles like this. Then they get a nice shopping list of products that don't enforce the flag. They know they have to address each of them before setting the flag on everything, all the time. That way people have no escape. So be vocal, the content distributors need this information so they can lock up their content.
I guess it depends on whether you're a cynic like me, or an optimist that thinks corporations really care.
I work in media, and I can tell you, NBC and similar companies are the absolute pawns of their advertisers. DRM is getting a big push from the ad guys because of commercial skipping. But (since the whole DRM/Broadcast Flag thing is a fiasco in the first place) they're not all subtle in their thinking, and if they hear a big fuss, they'll back off, and tell NBC to do the same.
This is something activists have to learn: go after advertisers.
Suppose an assassination happened on live TV but the coverage was flagged no-record. All 'official' copies at the networks could be easily altered to hide evidence, and no one with a proper recording to step up and challenge the subterfuge.
With "heroes" they set the "not until September" flag
And, I'll take a regular analog tv that can be watched at my leisure over the clearest signal possible if the price is that I have no control of the content... thank you very much.
P.S. I have IPTV (in rural northern Minnesota... go figure). Myth records directly from the network, digital all the way.
--Phillip
Can you say BIRTH TAX
Speak for yourself. My mistakes must have cumulatively cost the company thousands. Still seem to be pretty much employed.
If I made the same mistake twice, that would be another matter.
Furthermore, if you can record a flagged broadcast with XP or TiVo you should probably file a complaint that this software is circumventing the DRM and failing to manage your digital rights properly.
Priceless. :-)
Ironically, here in the UK, the front of today's Guardian Technology section has a full-page story on how pretty much anyone who is anyone is dropping DRM as fast as they can open their fingers. Among other things, it cites research showing that shows DRM has no impact on piracy levels (and makes the obvious but rarely stated observation that this means DRM is just annoying legitimate customers), and mentions several major on-line music distributors who are already offering DRM-free tracks or have definite plans to do so later this year. Apparently the market has a different view on how it would like its digital rights managed than Microsoft do...
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Yes quite true, or even several mistakes. In fact, I see incompetent people walking around all the time, making mistakes all over the place, and not a word of being fired.
It's a good thing I still have my trusty old VCR. Of course it's not like I'm actually going to watch gladiators anyway. But if I wanted to record it I'd use good old VHS!!!!
---- "Excuse me. Where's the children's gun section?"
It amazes me that people think that shows are the reason for the existence of TV stations, when really the whole broadcast system depends on hooking in enough people in order to get them to watch the commercials.
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They use it to conduct psyops against the populace, and whip up support for whatever military operation GE might be selling weapons systems for next.
Also comes in handy for whitewashing their union-busting and environmental crimes, as well.
Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
Netflix + seasons of DVDs = cheaper, commercial free, restriction-free viewing.
You just end up 1 season behind the people who are willing to wade through the eternal bog that is broadcast and cable television. It's home-grown ala-carte TV.
I can't tell you the last time I found something interesting by flipping channels, I've reverted solely to pre-recorded shows, and even that is still a PITA compared to watching a DVD.
Not that I would of course, but if you were so inclined, you could use HandBrake + MetaX to record those DVD's to time-shift their viewing to a later date. Buy yourself a network SAN and a library front-end such as AppleTV, and never watch another commercial or worry about the broadcast flag again.
Slay a dragon... over lunch!
I watch BSG on a Hulu stream.
It still sends the message that I prefer to watch things on my schedule rather than a
predefined one. It's a bit more noticable because the lack of a viewer is hard for them to measure, but an additional view on Hulu is easily registered. It's a satisfactory middle ground between watching in real-time and bittorrenting the show and then watching.
I don't mind the 15-30 second ads, I find them a reasonable exchange for my show and I even watch them since they're short enough that it's not worth getting up or doing something else. I just wish they'd stop repeating the same goddamn ad.
"Yeeeaaahhh...You're gonna need to talk to payroll..."
I refuse to believe that anyone tried recording American Gladiators.
While I may not agree with your decision to watch American Gladiator, I'll defend your right to watch it.
It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
You can waste an awful lot of time reading contracts and discovering that you've agreed to obnoxious things... and that there's not an awful lot you can do about it because all the competitors have similar contracts... and that, surprise, surprise, the employee behind the car rental counter is not interested in striking out clauses and negotiating contracts with an individual customer with a line behind him.
The interesting thing here is that contract law in most places already makes allowances for this sort of thing. There's even a legal term — contract of adhesion — describing standard contracts where there wasn't equal power for each party to negotiate on the details. Also, contracts generally require a meeting of minds, with both sides understanding what they are agreeing to; where this is not the case, courts can (and do) hold that unreasonable conditions are unenforceable.
In other words, it shouldn't be necessary to change the law to achieve what you want. If a contract of adhesion includes deceptive provisions that a typical person would be unlikely to agree to if they understood the implications, then it's already the case that courts might strike those provisions. You just need someone to bring the case.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
There's very little worth watching, and what is, is available to watch by the season on DVD. With the key demo, males 18-35, spending more and more time playing GTA IV and Halo, the TV industry would be well-advised to stop poisoning the well. Else, in 10 years' time the only ones watching will be retired Baby Boomers who live on $800 of social security every month.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
Yes, but cable companies are starting to encrypt all non-OTA digital TV signals they put out, and the pcHDTV-5500 doesn't support encryption.
Back to the original topic: I for one hope that this is as big a mistake for the content providers as I think it is. Basically, someone just turned the heat up too quickly on the stove, and I want the frog to notice that the water's getting kinda hot.
Television's purpose is to sell, not to entertain.
To make advertising pay, corporations need viewers to sit in front of the stupevision. "Entertainment" just has to keep you in your seat. If that means T&A shows, the "wide world of sports", live car accidents and one cartoon making fun of other cartoons, then so be it.
Whatever is cheapest to produce and easiest to recycle week after week to keep viewers in their seats is what stays on television.
This is not a perfect book, but reading it will make you think:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Arguments_for_the_Elimination_of_Television
http://www.amazon.com/Arguments-Elimination-Television-Jerry-Mander/dp/0688082742/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210859168&sr=8-1
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
apparently this "flag" feature is not supported by Mythtv. Damn you open source, always one step behind.
This stuff reminds me of the track copy flag on audio CDs. It's enabled on many discs but it always is ignored. Why should this stupid flag be different?
Stupidity is the root of all evil.
One of the best bosses I ever had had a simple rule: "If you aren't making mistakes, then you probably aren't working. Just don't repeat those errors, and don't try to hide them when you do screw up." He ended up retiring after 30 years with the company, so his philosophy certainly never cost him his career.
You can only drink 30 or 40 glasses of beer a day, no matter how rich you are.
-- Colonel Adolphus Busch
The Solution to his problem is simple: MythTV.
Build your own on any spare PC and forget about it.
Given NBC's ratings, who is going to boycott them? Until Heroes and then Chuck, I don't think I watched a show on NBC in YEARS. It's hard to boycott NBC when they are the little watched network as is.
There are two very different goals implied here.
1) Disclosure: The customer should be made aware of potential changes to their usage by the company. Even if every company does it, every company should disclose it, and I would think that a court would allow a customer to break out of a contract without contract termination penalty aside from the legal costs incurred(the amount of legal costs to the customer will vary depending on the company's temperament)
2) Understanding what is disclosed: 60 pages of fine print is still good enough for disclosure. Even if there's just 1 page of fine print, you've still got to sit and read through it while everybody else waits and many people don't want to cause that kind of disturbance and will simply sign. That's their responsibility of course, but that's how most people are. Even if disclosure is satisfied it will have very little effect since most just won't read all that bullshit.
That's why the bullshit is there. It's not enough to say that "We're not responsible for damages", which is an all-inclusive statement. They'll explicitly list every kind of potential damage they can possibly imagine just to fill the page out, and THEN follow it up with legalese that translates to: "And anything else we haven't mentioned", which makes all that filler redundant anyway. Then after a few pages of this fine print, you'll see 1 brief sentence about a very important issue, sandwiched between more fine print. For example, "This unlimited service may be subject to termination for excess use." (I.e an undetermined bandwidth cap on your unlimited service).
But in either case, it's moot, because these agreements are standard across all companies and contracts are non-negotiable unless you are a large company(which no consumer is).
OT, but in the same vein...
Back in the days of Napster, I attended a "satellite" senate hearing on campus. Orrin Hatch, Sean Fanning, and two musicians were there. One musician was a local independent artist who said he had no problem with Napster, but had huge problems with the record companies. The other musician was the lead singer for the Byrds, and he testified that his concert attendance was up and a "whole new generation of fans" learned about his music through Napster.
Also there were a few small tech firms who gave overviews of how they intended to use P2P technologies and expressed their concern that legislation that targeted Napster would interfere with their business.
Orrin Hatch seemed to agree, nodded, smiled, even presented Fanning with a hat from the college bookstore. He closed with remarks like, "This is a complicated issue that needs more attention." And then promptly furthered his work to kill P2P and consumer rights.
Your anecdote about Mr. Rogers just contributes further evidence that what's happening here is not what the artists want and definitely not what the consumers want. It's the middlemen forcing something on both parties, limiting the reach of the artists and what consumers can do with the artists' work.
I'd rather have someone respond than be modded up.
B.S. Mythtv is dead simple to install using a Mythbuntu live CD. If one takes a little care with their choice of hardware, the only possible problem areas I could think of would be lirc configuration for some remotes (at least it's a bit of a pain with the POS Packard Bell serial IR receiver I have).
What's also sad is how people who similarly campaign for higher causes (Richard Stallman on free software is a prime example) are maligned until situations like this come along and show us how right he is to insist on framing the debate in terms of a user's freedom to control their lives, relish social solidarity, and cooperate in a society of peers where you're limited largely by the restrictions you impose on yourself. Slashdotters cite Stallman's "The Right to Read" as we quickly head toward a culture that denies how everything we do is built on the past (Lawrence Lessig frequently reminded us of this) but how many read the dystopic short story and take it to heart?
Stallman can be hard to get along with at times, to be sure, but understanding his message doesn't require you to be his buddy and it should be harder than it is (judging by posts I've seen on so many discussion websites) to convince people to throw away their freedom in pursuit of some agenda set by business.
Digital Citizen
could someone remind me again what this "NBC" thing is, and why I should care? thankx.
NBC is a broadcast network owned by General Electric, the world's thrid largest corporation. It is a corporate propaganda outlet for big business to push their agenda in the USA -- namely destroying the middle class, turning the average American into a wage slave, and enriching the wealthy elite at the expense of civil liberties. So basically NBC is the media arm of the devil.
I went "green" 3 years ago. I don't miss TV at all anymore. In fact, on the few occasions I see my gf watching it, I'm amazed at what keeps the masses entertained. It hurts to even watch some of it (e.g. The Hills).
I broke from the music industry right after the Napster explosion. Currently, I'm working on breaking from the movie habit. Then I will be free from the grip of the media companies...okay, I'll keep my internet, but mostly free of the media companies.
Now, if only I could get my yard to "go" green.
...if you want to record encrypted digital HD...
If you only care about SD, and broadcast networks, sure. It's really easy.
I used to run MythTV for years, and loved it. But as soon as my signal provider moved to encrypted QAM, it became useless. I'm still patiently waiting for somebody to sell decryption device (PCI-E cableCARD slot?) so I can start using it again... But until then I went to an HD TiVo. The hardware is cheaper anyway, and the updates are automatic...
Don't be surprised if buried in the analogue output circuitry of your digital set top box is a macrovision circuit just itching to be switched on by a hidden flag hidden in some program to mop up the remaining analogue recorders such as yourself! :)
Vocal? Meh.
I timeshift everything. I don't watch any live TV. Even sporting events. Pause 'em for 20 minutes first, so I can skip the commercials and commentators (more annoying than the commercials).
Set the broadcast flag? Ok. I can't and won't watch your show. I'm not going to go watch it on your website, either. I have a big 47" HDTV for a reason. I don't want to watch a 320x240 version of a show in a tiny window on my computer.
The days of planting your ass on the couch and being a captive audience to one of the big networks is over. They'll either need to learn to cope, or lose their audience entirely.
Wait, I thought we were 'for' Microsoft supporting industry standards?
No, now is the time to piss in your knickers, clean up then write some letters to congress and to NBC.
It is easier to stop the sooner people react.
Like it or not, many people will be running media center.
To just quit watching as an answer is to stick your head in the sand. How about you DO something?
It's really not your palce to tell other people what they like is bad. It might not be bad to you, but they seem to enjoy it. TV is just a medium, like books. PBS and NOVA is on TV do you honestly think those are worse then reading fan fiction?
It's not the medium that matters.
A lot of people liked Buffy. I didn't, but that doesn't really matter.
No, I don't watch any broadcast TV. I don't like my kids being exposed to those damn commercials.
However we will probably get it soon. My son is having troubles relating to other kids when they talk about shark week. Initially you would think it wasn't a big deal, but the social aspects of communicating with your peers in grade school is not something that should be overlooked.
"It seems highly unlikely that content providers will absolutely block digital time shifting of THEIR property,"
They've wanted to to that for years, why should it being digital matter. Now that they realize that after market DVDs can be a huge money maker they ahve even MORE reason to block them.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Don't just stop buying and watching, you should also write them and be vocal.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Kwisatz Haderach
Sell the spice to CHOAM
This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
>> Since TV is of little value to begin with
I always like when higher-than-thou's make this point, it tickles me in a way. This guy falls into an especially large trap since the whole point of his post is that one method of delivery is better than another method.
TV, books, radio, newspapers, magazines, email, forums, websites... they are all media. They are all information. Only the delivery method is different. I watch very little news on tv, mostly get my news online or from the radio. My parents only get their news from tv and we can both communicate the same points to each other having garnered it from very different sources. Of course the spin and bias is applied differently in different mediums but the basic transmitted message is the same.
Saying TV is of little value is like saying books are of little value. HaHa! You read books?!? Like the romance novels with the long haired muscle men? HaHa you suck. Oooooh wait a minute maybe there are numerous types of books/tv shows/radio programs/websites/forums... OOOOH and maybe different topics interest different people.