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What to Seek in an Older Subnotebook?
cyclomedia writes "I'm looking to buy a subnotebook. For those who think that this form factor was created by the Asus EEE (as, seemingly, does Wikipedia) it might interest you that the current forerunner in my search is a 190MHz,64MB,640x480 256 colour beastie known as the Psion Netbook, circa 2001-ish. Basically, I have a desktop, a server and an Xbox and so truly only want it for surfing, email and the odd bit of SSHing home on weekends away. The aforementioned Psion is, however, of the StrongArm processor variety, which nudges it down on the desireability meter, but the fact that there exist Wi-Fi cards for its 16-bit PCMCIA slot does score it extra points. So, anyone here got any suggestions of what to look out for on ebay? So long as I can play Doom II on it too, that is."
Any other suggestions for wireless capable subnotebooks with better battery life than things like the EEE or HP's 2133 Mininote?
Are you seriously stating that you're considering a 190mhz machine, with 64MB of RAM, with a 640x480 8-bit display, as a web browser? Do you use the same web I do? Even applying CSS rules would crush that machine.
what do you have against the eee or 2133 mininote? you sound like you're purposely making this hard for yourself. are these old junk laptops stupidly cheap? is the eee really unaffordable for you?
How much do you want to spend on it? In my opinion, I think that the new MSI Wind is a very good alternative.. if you want to spend 399$ in the Linux version and upgrade the battery to get 5.5h.
More info at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MSI_Wind_PC
I had a 12" PowerBook G4 for a number of years, and would recommend it if all you need is web and SSH.
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You'll be hard pressed to find another subnotebook that has better specs that is cheaper, new or used. They can even run some games that are a few years old (with the windows verity)
in terms of "classic" subnotebooks that are x86 that you still might be able to find is the toshiba libretto line. I think they ranged from 90Mhz to 133 and ran win95. But you'll be hard pressed to find one that the battery still works. Thats really the problem with old laptops is they tend to be broken in someway normally the batteries
I was quite a fan of my Toshiba Libretto 100CT when I had it, it's quite small (210 x 132 x 35 mm) and runs a 166mhz x86 intel pentium 1 mmx. In terms of networking/usb you can use PC Card expansion slots, or get the "Mini Card" (read docking station) which gives you a usb port and more PC Card expansion slots.
Quite a nifty machine for circa 1996, problem is now they fall into the "collector" catagory so some people are paying a fortune for them on ePay.
See also: http://www.toshiba-europe.com/bv/computers/products/notebooks/libretto100ct/index.shtm
Two Parts Swash, One Part Buckle
Here's a 110ct, something along what youre asking for: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150248931102
Heres a u105, something more up-to-date: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170217846018
I dunno, they were always perfectfor me. I especially loved them when I interfaced it with an ol' oki900. ahhh.. the AMPS days...
From Wikipedia: "Subnotebooks have been something of a niche computing product and have rarely sold in large numbers until the 2007 introduction of the Asus Eee PC and the OLPC XO-1[1], which are inexpensive in comparison to both existing machines in that form factor, and computers in general."
That sounds spot on to me. How does that sound anything like it's saying that the form factor was created by Asus? They have been around for ages, it's just in the past they either needed a special striped down OS, were incredibly expensive, had bizarre tiny screen resolutions, or they left out things like keyboards to strip them down in size. Sure NOW you can find some great second hand deals, but they couldn't have possibly been compared as anywhere on the same level in price when they were new.
In fact, the wikipeida article looks like a great list of used models to look for.
The Netbook totally rocks. IIRC it has 40 hrs of uptime on a single battery load, which blows every protable PC (even the Transmeta Lifebooks pimped with Powerbattery and OD Battery) out of the water. But get your head straight about pocessing power and running some Linux derviate or something on it. That won't fly.
Because, allthough it is a fully fletched out business system with a neat Java 1.1 enviroment on top of some custom Epoc OS (way ahead of it's time), you can absolutely forget any more that rudymentary surfing on that thing. I strongly suggest you get the brand new and super cheap One A110 and hack youself some external power option if you want to reach the Netbooks uptime.
And, yes, uptime is what I'd be looking for in any subnote who's prime purpose is to be used for generic tasks while on the road. In that respect a Netbook really is the bar. But the One A110 and the Asus EEE are the new generation (nearly 10 years newer!) and they are actually those up to the Netbook. I'd say they've re-introduced the Handheld era. Might aswell pay that respect and get one.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I really dont want to sound like an apple fanboy, but have you considered an iPod touch . I'm on mine now and if you hack it its fine for email, web and ssh. Although getting it to sync over ssh can be a challenge (an one I've not got round actually on 1.1.4), so its probably a deal breaker if you dont have windows or a mac kicking around (fortunately my girlfriend still has a windows laptop kicking around).
its got a fairly good battery life; hours on the web (I think I get over 5 doing normal stuff and a little less watching stuff on the BBC. It can do emails in a similar way to thunderbird and you can stick ssh on it fairly easily from a hack from 1.1.4 using ziphone
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
For Websurfing you need a real machine. A subnotebook like the Thinkpad X40 or X41 would be sufficiant (I just got a cheap x41 and I am a very happy customer).
For Email, SSH, and Websurfing using a text browser you could consider something like the Psion Netbook.
The thing that bugs me is that noone seems to have come out with a "new" Psion Netbook. Same configuration, but up to date. With Windows CE (aka Windows Mobile) or Linux, or some other proprietary os. A notebook with very low power and a bad screen that lasts more than 10 hours, but has a full keyboard. But you couldn't play Doom II on that one anyways. Though I wouldn't want to. SSH, email, word processing and organizer with a large screen and a full keyboard would be plenty for me.
... my Fujitsu Lifebook P1120. Only two pounds, running W2K Pro and still works like a champ with its blazing 633MHz Transmeta Crusoe processor and 512M of RAM. Also dual boots with Ubuntu. Great little machine.
That is all.
if you are buying an old machine and you want to travel, look carefully at battery life and replacements.
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Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
I recently got a Nokia N810 "Internet Tablet", as they call it. It's pocket-sized, much smaller than an Eee for instance, and a little bigger than a Palm TX, but it has a 400 MHz TI OMAP CPU (an ARM with a DSP core glued on), an 800x480 screen, a very usable slide-out mini keyboard, and built-in Wi-Fi, all for $400 (street price). Oh, and it runs Linux. (It's not a cell phone, though it will do VOIP over the Wi-Fi.)
Battery life is excellent: several hours of active use, and several days at idle (you don't really turn it off, you just lock the touch screen and it goes into low-power mode). I recently used it to take notes at a seminar -- in 3 or 4 hours I don't think I used more than 1/3 of a charge.
The Web browser it comes with works very well. Some of the other software is a little rough (the email client doesn't work well in IMAP mode, for instance). It runs SSH and a VNC viewer. I don't know about Doom II, but it plays video pretty well (doesn't always keep up with the frame rate, but it's adequate for pr0n).
These things are all tradeoffs, of course, but I'm happy to take the mini keyboard and the small but hi-res display in exchange for a device that's just barely small enough to carry everywhere, clipped to my belt.
Your god may be dead, but mine aren't!
I have the 810 and it seems to fit the requirements (including Doom II). Depending on the time you need to spend typing at a keyboard, it may or may not be right for you (or you can choose to get a bluetooth keyboard). If you can withstand typing on a virtual keyboard or get a bluetooth keyboard, the 770 and 800 are dirt cheap on Ebay and quite capable machines (the 800 is basically a fatter 810 without keyboard and GPS and is upgradeable to the same OS version than the 810).
As a Debian-based OS runs the little buggers you probably get the largest functionnality/size ratio out there.
There's no difference between PCMCIA and PC Card; the standard was officially renamed to the latter because (it was thought) it was an easier & more approachable name.
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E pluribus sanguinem
The EeePC will happily run Doom2, especially if you are keen enough to either set up the Advanced interface or install a different version of Linux (e.g one of the *buntu or whatever you prefer). Easy to do - just follow the EeeUser Wiki - http://wiki.eeeuser.com/
Use something like prboom to run your Doom2 - it works well on the EeePC.
Or even install Windows if you really must (or buy the Windows installed version)
Whist an older laptop may seem a good idea, I would be worried about the battery. Most of these old machines have batteries which have reached the end of their life and will soon crap out. Even if the machine comes with a replacement, it will most likely be a cheap copy with a poor lifespan. Not that the battery life on the EeePC is fantastic I must admit! But you can maximise it if you need to by turning down the brightness on the screen and disabling stuff like the wireless.
The EeeUser website is very useful for info regarding these machines - including modifications such as bluetooth etc for the really keen!
Awful UID - but I have been here ages...
The Eee PC has an advantage over the competition: Asus sold the shit out of them. And because they ran Linux first (and WinXP later), there's a ton of various Linux-for-Eee projects going on. And considering all the software that runs on Linux, I'd say the Eee PC is better equipped both in terms of software available for it, as well as replacement hardware (because there are so many of them by now in the world).
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Parts.
I've always been a big fan of Toshiba Libretto's.
:P
The first one I had, circa 1999-2000, was the size of a VHS casette and fairly competent for its day
A couple of years ago, I upgraded to the newer 100CT, with a couple of gig of ram and such. It's a nice machine. Definitely takes getting used to the keyboard, but for portability, it can't be beat. And just throw a bluetooth or USB keyboard and external display on it when you're tethered.
But when you're on the road, tossing it in a small camera bag, having 5 hours of battery life for the long flights, having room for your laptop and a drink and not worrying about being crushed by the seat in front of you, is very liberating. Similarly, fitting into a small camera bag (honestly, it's not a purse), it goes with me everywhere; I pop it out at the pub or a restaurant or on the road.
Despite the fact I happened to snag one at Future Shop (ugh), in general subnotebooks are something the public doesn't even seem to know exists. I get a lot of comments from people just fascinated by it, thinking it must just be a Windows CE machine at first, and being blown away when they realize how powerful it is.
There is one downside: one time on a flight, the female flight attendant saw it, pointed down towards my lap, and said loudly, "wow, that's the smallest one of those I ever saw!" With the ensuing laughter, she turned many shades of red...
I just tell people that with such a small laptop, I'm clearly not trying to compensate for anything
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Compatible with most off-the-shelf (and under-the-table) games.