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Microsoft Acknowledges NBC's Wish is Its Command

theodp writes "Responding to questions about why some users of Windows Vista Media Center were prevented from recording the NBC Universal TV shows 'American Gladiator' and 'Medium,' Microsoft has acknowledged that Windows Media Centers will block users from recording TV shows at the request of a broadcaster. 'Microsoft included technologies in Windows based on rules set forth by the (Federal Communications Commission),' wrote a Microsoft spokeswoman, apparently referring to an FCC proposal that the courts struck down in 2005. 'Microsoft has put the requirements of broadcasters above what consumers want,' said the EFF's Danny O'Brien. 'They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires. Customers need to know who Microsoft is listening to and how that affects their equipment. Right now, the only way customers know what Microsoft has agreed to is when the technology they've bought suddenly stops working. Microsoft needs to come clean and tell its customers what deals it has made.'"

22 of 417 comments (clear)

  1. I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by bleh-of-the-huns · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last I checked... Tivo supports the broadcast flag as well, yet those of us (I have 2) with Tivo's had no issues... So I guess the question is, why is Tivo ignoring the broadcast flag (not that I am complaining mind you, I hate the broadcast flag), but I am curious..

    --
    I came, I conquered, I coredumped
    1. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by rasper99 · · Score: 5, Informative

      From what I remember the way Tivo series 2 works with the broadcast flag is that it will record it but you can't use Tivo2go to transfer the recording to your computer.

      You can watch it on the Tivo all you want but that is all you can do with it. If you look at the information about a program recorded with the broadcast flag it should tell you that.

      I believe I recorded a show with a broadcast flag a long time ago and it said that. Guess I'll have to record one of these shows just to double check.

      Not sure what the Tivo series 3 and Tivo HD do with it. Should be the same.

    2. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires." -- Wrong and ignorant.

      Microsoft has to program for more then one country you know. There is a wide range a laws and regulations that end up going into the media center programming - and yes, some of the programming will bleed over into the American version.

      In Canada we see shows being blocked from recording using that flag all the time. Yes, its ok for a broadcaster here to stop us from recording a program.

      I'm not saying i agree with it, but it's not as if Microsoft was screwing around with Americans just because they wanted to be a jerk.

      I would put more blame on the broadcaster for playing around with the flag when they shouldn't.

      In the meantime... Microsoft should release a patch that stops the DRM for those in America. It won't happen, but hey.

    3. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most likely because no Tivo users in the affected broadcast area bothered to complain or have seen this often enough that they're busy pursuing the only effective resolution -- complaining to their cable company and/or local broadcaster.

      http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=390326&highlight=broadcast+flag/

      http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=385828&highlight=broadcast+flag/

      There are too many steps along the broadcast path where a stupid user can accidentally reset the flag and they unfortunately do so far too often.

      None of the alarm-ringing "articles" on this have offered reason to believe that NBC-qua-NBC set this flag vs. it having been set by a local affiliate station or local cable provider.

      FURTHERMORE, the CNet reporters have failed to understand the distinction between the broadcast flag the FCC was not allowed to impose and the broadcast flag that CableLabs is allowed to impose on anybody making a system capable of using a CableCard (which both Tivo and MS do).

    4. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by Firehed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, that brings up an interesting point. TiVo, unlike Microsoft, is currently seeing subscription revenue for their services - they actually have something to lose if they start screwing with their customers. With MS-based media center machines, it's a one-off license deal as far as I'm aware - though I expect a company the size of Microsoft is forward-thinking enough to realize that pissing off people who paid once isn't a great way to get them to pay again, especially with what people are saying about Vista.

      It really makes you wonder what MS had to gain by doing this. Were they paid? Was it some sort of weird deal to get content providers annoyed at everyone BUT MS for not respecting the broadcast flag thus far? Why is a multi-billion dollar company bending over and taking it from tripe like American Gladiators?

      --
      How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
    5. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by AmaDaden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not worth it for some. Keeping up on whats what in recording hardware and maintaining a MythTV box are less fun then working on some other geek hobby. Tivo is reasonably priced and works well. Also with Tivo you can get several, one for each member of the family, for less then additional MythTV boxes.

    6. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by Yvan256 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I expect a company the size of Microsoft is forward-thinking enough to realize that pissing off people who paid once isn't a great way to get them to pay again
      You must be new here.
    7. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      yep, I got a C&D letter from my ISP for grabbing Stargate: Atlantis back when it first came out.

      They don't care whether it's movies or tv or music. it's money they seem to think they're losing so send in the lawyers!

      The funny thing is I *was* a huge SG1 fan, even had seasons 1-7 on DVD. I missed the first half of SG: Atlantis due to being without cable for a few months, so I just went online to catch up and figured I'd be 'nice' and do the same for other people in the same boat. I still have the downloaded episodes, and you know what? I've never watched them, nor have I watched SG1 since.

      Left a really bad taste in my mouth so I'm doing the best thing I can...NOT watching them anymore. Of course if I was more motivated I'd write them a letter but hey...haha

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    8. Re:I wonder why Tivo ignored the flag by mweather · · Score: 5, Funny

      If you're time is so valuable, why do you watch so much TV?

  2. defective by design... by advocate_one · · Score: 5, Insightful

    shows just who the real "customer" here is... not you... you are the product, delivered to the media conglomerates...

    --
    Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
    1. Re:defective by design... by Sique · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That's old news.

      Douglas Adams is often quoted with something along this line:

      "Most TV stations are in the business to deliver customers to advertisers. The BBC is in the business to deliver TV programmes to people."

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
  3. Great News! by jav1231 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is great news. Look, Microsoft has a vendor first / user second approach. The more stupid shit like this they do the more the users will catch on that they are simply taken for granted.

    1. Re:Great News! by rundgren · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is great news. Look, Microsoft has a vendor first / user second approach. ..and so does every other company that uses DRM.
  4. Re:Nothing to see here by that_itch_kid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think so. People are not so apathetic as you seem to think. They will take notice as soon as it impacts on their ability and their freedom to do things they have been able to do since they bought their first VCR recorder 25 years ago.

    Microsoft has been putting too much faith into its monopoly position. The more people this affects, the more people WILL move to alternative systems, and the more those alternative systems will improve.

    DRM will never survive.

  5. Microsoft has been screwing us over for years by Anita+Coney · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft has never been about the customer. Microsoft will gladly screw over their customers to get a few bucks or gain marketshare.

    Here's an old but great example. Back when Win95 was released you could not natively use long file names with 16-bit apps. However, there was a product called "Name-It!" which did allow that function. In other words it was possible and quite easy to enable the function, but Microsoft chose NOT to implement it. Why? Because long file names was a well liked feature among customers and denying it to customers would give incentive to upgrade to new 32-bit programs.

    Another great example is Messenger, the chat program not the service. Microsoft originally made it nearly impossible to get rid of. Even if you edited your sysoc.inf file and uninstalled Messenger, it'll suddenly come back. Even if you deleted the subfolder under Program Files, it would mysteriously come back. Obviously Microsoft considered its chat war against AOL more important than ease of use for its customers.

    And of course there's product activation. We were told it was to stop piracy, but that was bull-shit. You can easy obtain pirated copies of XP and Vista. Let's face it, if piracy has been decreased, then why is Vista Microsoft's most expensive OS? Why aren't they passing the savings back to us? Clearly product activation is not stopping piracy at all. Once again, the real purpose of product activation is to screw over the paying customer who wants to install the OS he paid for on both of his systems.

    And lets not forget how Microsoft's Office products are constantly screwing with file formats to make the later versions incompatible with earlier versions. Once again, this is NOT done to make it easier for paying customers. It's merely leverage to get those customer paying again and again.

    It'd be really hard to be passionate for Microsoft's products. It's hard to be passionate for anything that nickel and dimes you at every turn. That treats you like a criminal. And sees you merely as a cash cow to be milked at every chance.

    --
    If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
  6. Re:Reminds me of ... by mvdwege · · Score: 5, Informative

    It would help the argument a lot if people would stop posting the link to Peter Gutman's first paper. He already has acknowledged that some facts were based on pre-release versions of Vista, and Microsoft trial-balloons.

    The newer slideshow addresses much the same issues, without the minor holes the MS astroturfers can use to misdirect attention away from the main points.

    Mart
    --
    "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  7. Re:Nothing to see here by Cryophallion · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, Mythtv is pretty easy to set up now, if you use one of the distro versions (knoppmyth, mythdora or mythbuntu).
    I add a nice pchdtv video card, which does not detect the broadcast flag, and I have nothing to worry about. Plus, I can burn dvd's of my recordings, and many other things.

    Windows media center has a number of problems, and crashes too. However, because it is windows, people ignore it. Myth is just as stable. And can be tested before buying (since mythbuntu at least has a livecd)

  8. Re:With Tivo TV is no longer real-time. by somersault · · Score: 5, Funny

    If I can't record it, I am not watching it. I tried using that argument at the cinema, but they threw me out :(
    --
    which is totally what she said
  9. Indeed... by interactive_civilian · · Score: 5, Funny

    VCR recorder, is that like an ATM machine? ;) Indeed, it is. However, unlike an ATM machine, you don't need a PIN number for a VCR recorder.
    --
    "Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
  10. Mister Rogers already settled this issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This issue has already been settled in SONY CORP. OF AMER. v. UNIVERSAL CITY STUDIOS, INC., 464 U.S. 417 (1984) (http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/464_US_417.htm). Fred Rogers made a profound and compelling argument for the personal recording of television programs:

    "Some public stations, as well as commercial stations, program the 'Neighborhood' at hours when some children cannot use it. I think that it's a real service to families to be able to record such programs and show them at appropriate times. I have always felt that with the advent of all of this new technology that allows people to tape the 'Neighborhood' off-the-air, and I'm speaking for the 'Neighborhood' because that's what I produce, that they then become much more active in the programming of their family's television life. Very frankly, I am opposed to people being programmed by others. My whole approach in broadcasting has always been 'You are an important person just the way you are. You can make healthy decisions.' Maybe I'm going on too long, but I just feel that anything that allows a person to be more active in the control of his or her life, in a healthy way, is important."

  11. Re:Damned either way by Wylfing · · Score: 5, Informative

    The American people in 1776 would have happily followed the English herders if it were not for a very few well financed and abled revolutionaries.

    I had to point out that this is incorrect, in both its substance and conclusion. The common chatter in pubs for nearly a decade leading up to 1776 was that the "sheep" (as you want to call them) -- i.e., the common people -- were ready to take up arms to expel the British presence in the colonies. This was in no small part due to the quartering of British troops in private American homes, and the attendant problems of having a large standing army permanently hanging out in American cities without an enemy to fight.

    The lesson here is not that people will do what they're told. Just the opposite. If you push enough people for a long enough time, you build an undercurrent of resentment that will eventually manifest in a dramatic way. Put another way, get off your goddamn elitist high horse about how the unwashed masses are idiotic sheep. People are not as dumb or as docile as you want to believe.

    --
    Our intelligent designer has never created an animal that we couldn't improve by strapping a bomb to it.
  12. Re:I wonder why... by nick_davison · · Score: 5, Funny

    Two /. news stories:

    Google helps the Indian government make a man eat from the same bowl he craps in.

    Microsoft saves users from recording American Gladiators.

    As part of their competition with Google strategy, I think Microsoft just stole the right to the "Do no evil" slogan.