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Hairy Solar Cells Could Mean Higher Efficiency

kitzilla writes "Two research groups working independently have come up with what they say are cheap processes for growing nanowires to be used with solar cells. The 'hairy' cells provide a direct path for electrons collected at the panel face to reach an electrode, something which has the potential to dramatically improve system efficiency."

43 of 203 comments (clear)

  1. Anonymous Coward by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    solar cells are pn junctions and DO NOT Collect electrons. i am to lazy to get into solid state theory right now. so go figure how exactly pv cells work.

    1. Re:Anonymous Coward by QuasiEvil · · Score: 5, Informative

      AC's got it right. For those who are TLTRTFM (Too Lazy To ...), what the poster should have said is that they help channel charge carriers away from the junction so that they don't immediately recombine. *That* is one of the holy grails of PV design, and one of the reasons that current production cells are incredibly inefficient.

  2. Let me guess... by kiick · · Score: 5, Funny
    They expect to have something ready in 3 to 5 years.

    If every solar cell advance that was announced actually led to improvements of solar cells you could actually buy, then they would be 99.9999999% efficient and cost less than crackers.

    But I'm not bitter, nooooooo.

    1. Re:Let me guess... by frying_fish · · Score: 4, Informative

      Slight problem at the moment is band gap, and tuning a semiconductor to have the appropriate bandgap that will cover the visible spectrum. Currently there is no single device that is sensitive to the whole visible spectrum, but there is research into this. This is one of the major reasons for the low efficiency in solar cells.

    2. Re:Let me guess... by chuckymonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      Personally I love solar voltaic panels with a little of that canned cheese on them. On a more serious note, why do people not focus on the tech that we have now? For instance if you want solar the solar thermal systems are pretty cheap to build and have decent efficiency. I just don't get why everyone is so stuck on solar voltaic which is as someone else said in a perpetual early adoption stage when a good chunk of baseline power could be provided by solar thermal.

      --
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    3. Re:Let me guess... by tepples · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Currently there is no single device that is sensitive to the whole visible spectrum Then why not have some sort of dichroic reflector pass specific wavelengths to specific PV cell banks?
    4. Re:Let me guess... by AdamTrace · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Remember, solar power is generally available HERE and NOW.

      I just invested in a PV system for my house (in sunny SoCal). As a computer geek, I asked our guy if it was stupid to invest, since there always seem to be efficiency breakthroughs on the horizon.

      He reminded me that efficiency generally meant "smaller" and perhaps "cheaper". But since my roof was plenty adequate for what I needed, "smaller" wasn't really an issue. Cheaper will ALWAYS be the case, as it always has been.

      Don't get frozen by the thought that solar power isn't worth investing in today. It totally is.

      Adman

    5. Re:Let me guess... by rossy · · Score: 2, Funny

      ... then they would be 99.9999999% efficient and cost less than crackers. Yes, but would they be individually wrapped?
      --
      Ross Youngblood
    6. Re:Let me guess... by WhiteDragon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Currently there is no single device that is sensitive to the whole visible spectrum Then why not have some sort of dichroic reflector pass specific wavelengths to specific PV cell banks? Good idea, but someone beat you to it
      --
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    7. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Mmmmm, hairy crackers... Fantasizing about us white guys again?
    8. Re:Let me guess... by Belial6 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Sounds just like computers. I need to get one of those one of these days. Just as soon as they stop getting smaller and cheaper.

    9. Re:Let me guess... by Tweenk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      a good chunk of baseline power could be provided by solar thermal. Baseline power is the minimal power required during the day, so it has to be supplied constantly. Solar thermal plant output drops to 0 watts at night unless you use some means of energy storage, and is severely reduced during the winter or when there are thick clouds, so they're not suited to supplying baseline power unless a reliable means of storing huge amounts of energy with little loss is developed. For now, the only feasible baseline power plants are hydro, nuclear and fossil.

      Generally solar is good as long as the sky is clear. Imagine what would happen to a 100% solar economy hit by a month of thick clouds. I don't think relying on something as random as the weather for your main energy supply is a good idea. It's OK e.g. when you want to power farm machines, because if there's no power you can wait, but powering cities with it doesn't seem wise. I also think that green activists should stop pretending they can do without nuclear power (at least those of them that do), because right now they can't, and telling everybody not to invest in nuclear and wait until we come up with adequate energy storage technology is making the global warming worse by preventing substantial CO2 emission reductions.
      --
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    10. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Not only here and now. I started homesteading in 1979 and been off the grid, but not without power since then -- the tech was already good enough insofar as solar panels go. Batteries, on the other hand...we do OK with what there is. What makes good panels (such as I have) expensive is not the silicon part. It's all the rest, which has made my panels last from then until now, still performing like new -- I couldn't guess the eventual lifetime. All it's going to take is more people putting their money where their mouth is, instead of using theoretical improvements as an excuse to wait forever.

      My systems now run a campus with 4 buildings, a large computer network, a machine shop, an electroplating line (not all at once, there's only a couple of us to use it all). Is that finally good enough? Not to the oil trolls, the people who won't pay for power upfront, or who think that if we just tax those other guys enough (and who pays for that, really?) someday soon I'll be able to buy a magic box to clip to the antenna on my Toyota and it will the run on freely available hydrogen...I have permits for all kinds of dangerous things -- but can't even buy hydrogen, evidently in reality it's more dangerous than guns, high explosives, various chemistries...the list goes on.

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    11. Re:Let me guess... by arotenbe · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thus proving something everyone on Slashdot already knew: when it comes to rapidly advancing technology, patents do nothing but move the state of the art back 10 or 20 years.

      --
      Tomato wedge sperm darts that are Republican.
    12. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Thank you thank you thank you! I've lost count of the number of times I've heard the "solar is almost ready, but it's only x% efficient, so best to wait a little longer when it'll be cheaper/smaller/whatever" argument repeated over the years. Yes, just like any other technology solar cells will get better as time goes by... so the "don't buy until we reach nirvana in $\lim n \to \infty$ years time" argument can be equally applied to pretty much any technology. Like, say, computers, cars, refrigerators, home theater systems and microwave ovens. So would you indefinitely delay purchase of the items on this list in response to this argument? Of course not! If the technology does the job, then you buy it. This applies to to cars, to computers, to microwave ovens... and to solar cells.

    13. Re:Let me guess... by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Informative
      PV is about 15-20% efficient.

      36% in concentrator cells, but they'll be stuck in the lab for quite a while, and will probably be infeasible for large installations.

      Thermal is currently 40% in some units, and a prototype achieved 60%.

      That's the efficiency of the turbine itself. The plant will have some additional losses (not all of the sunlight hitting the area of the plant will actually be collected, etc).

    14. Re:Let me guess... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why is it that in any conversation about alternative sources of energy someone will mention Nuclear power as "feasible", "sustainable" or any other optamistic decriptor that, based on a critical examination of nuclear power, clearly isn't the case? I imagine it's because based on a critical examination of nuclear power, it clearly is the case.

      long term isotope storage (or "waste") The "waste" of breeder reactors consists of relatively harmless elements (like lead) and radioactive substances with short half lives that within days decay into relatively harmless elements. And if you want to argue about breeders generating plutonium then by all means describe a disposal method for the plutonium from decommissioned bombs that guarantees it will never in its 24,000 year half life find its way into another bomb. My way is "destroying" it by using it as fuel in a reactor, which is the same place plutonium generated by breeders can go -- and in that case it can be salted with Pu-240 to ensure it can't be used in bomb making.

      considerable CO2 emmissions from the energy used in the production of U-235 for reactor cores As opposed to the CO2 emissions from the energy used in the production of, well, everything? Solar/wind/whatever included? That is, unless that energy comes from non-fossil sources -- which is the whole point of this exercise in the first place.

      CFC's leaked in the actual process are America's Number 1 source of CFC emmissions and are up to 20,000 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than C02. What is this, the 80s? CFCs were banned more than a decade ago in the US. They were used as a refrigerant in uranium processing just like they were used as a refrigerant in other applications prior to the ban. Now they use non-CFC refrigerants. Welcome to 1995.

      S.T.P is revealing itself to be completely viable alternatives to coal based on the capability to store thermal energy long after the sun goes down. That is the whole point of solar thermal power after all. How is it that you're ignoring the gp's point that solar thermal is hosed when you have a cloudy month? It certainly can't store thermal energy for that long. Forget about "put it in the desert" for the northeastern US. How do you propose to power New York City without its nuclear plants?
    15. Re:Let me guess... by mike2R · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thus proving something everyone on Slashdot already knew: when it comes to rapidly advancing technology, patents do nothing but move the state of the art back 10 or 20 years.

      I don't see its proved anything of the sort to be honest. Unless the poster who made the original suggestion is in a position to bring this product to market himself, and was willing to make what I assume would be a large investment to do so without the benefit of any patent protection, then no one has lost anything. On the flip side the patent holder may be able to find an investor willing to back development of the technology; it would be considerably harder to do so if the investor knew that if the product was a success, they'd have to very quickly face competitors selling identical products who didn't have to make as large an initial investment.

      Disclaimer: I know crap all about solar power or the validity or utility of this particular patent; I'm just trying to make a distinction between the development of software and that of physical inventions.

      --
      This sig all sigs devours
  3. Sheeit Negro, that's all you had to say! by gandhi_2 · · Score: 2, Interesting
    What's really awesome is that PV cells have undergone constant improvement in lab performance for 20 years, but since nothing ever gets put into production, the industry is held in a constant state of "early adoption" and we get screwed like perpetual "early adopters".

    Know what would rawk? A 5 year moritorium on new PV cell research so we could get some actual PV cell production going.

  4. Nanowires are nice and everything... by Hankapobe · · Score: 2, Informative

    but what is really needed is a photovoltaic that will release two electrons for every photon. If any of you material guys out there do that, you'll be a gazillionaire! That will really make photovoltaics productive enough to really complete with other alternative energy source - assuming fossils fuels don't go up much higher than they are now. Photovoltaics need to get down below $0.15 kwh on the roof (the heat from a typical roof reduces photovoltaic's efficiency by at least 10%).

    1. Re:Nanowires are nice and everything... by skintigh2 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Barely related... but as a South Texas resident, I wonder how much less I could run my A/C every year just because of the shade provided by solar cells on my roof? I believe I first used my A/C this year in February, so even a small decrease could be significant over the year.

      I also always wondered why people don't advertise how much cooler CFL bulbs are than incandescent bulbs. I replaced 480W of lighting in a bathroom with 72W (replaced 60W clear bulbs with 9W vanity CFLs) and not only is it brighter and the light softer (and thus makes ladies feel prettier when doing whatever it is they do for hours in bathrooms) but it's a lot cooler. And they will pay for themselves in roughly 13 months.

      And similar swaps make a really significant difference when sitting under the 5-bulb light that is just above the dining table. A friend of mine used to unscrew some of the bulbs when she did homework.

      So basically now I save electricity while saving electricity.

    2. Re:Nanowires are nice and everything... by lgw · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Ahh, but that's because you live in Texas. Residents of lesser states are often concerned primarily with heating a room instead of cooling it. The difference is particularly huge in a batroom with a well-lit mirror, where 300W of heating in a small poorly-ventilated room could send the temperature over 100 in minutes - the CFLs are a glorious change, and available in whatever color temperature suits your fancy.

      Now we just need affordable dimmable CFLs for that dining table fixture, and low-wattage CFLs with the same wonderful very-warm color temperature that you get from dimming a 300W floor lamp down to 3W, which does as much as alcohol for making your partner look more attractive. ;)

      --
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    3. Re:Nanowires are nice and everything... by Facetious · · Score: 4, Funny

      I believe I first used my A/C this year in February
      You own an Anonymous Coward? That would be sweet. I would task mine to read and summarize /. for me.
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    4. Re:Nanowires are nice and everything... by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Now it's been a while since I dealt with Physics and all that, but... release 2 electrons for one photon? How would that work? Photons knock electrons out of their bonds by imparting enough energy into the electron so that it moves into the conduction band. However, photons are either absorbed or not - this is not billiards.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    5. Re:Nanowires are nice and everything... by lgw · · Score: 2, Funny

      It was two different examples. 6 or even individual bulbs in a bathroom fixture are common (I've never been sure why, not needing to apply makeup). Also, 300W halogen floor lamps are common, and it's really hard to find a florescent replacement for those: nothing is bright enough, and when you turn down the dimmer on the 300W bulbs to where you can barely see them, you get the color temperature of firelight, which is very nice at times.

      Also, in Texas, your average living room is larger than Italy, but that's a different topic. :)

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Nanowires are nice and everything... by aliloln · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, they are talking about 300W halogen floor lamps (single halogen bulb fixtures). There are even 500w halogen bulbs. Google Halogen 300w and you'll find the bulbs.

      --
      Question your beliefs.
  5. Lab advancements != commercially viable by QuasiEvil · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem is that a large portion of the lab performance-enhancing techniques are so insanely expensive that they *can't* go into production. Many of them - particularly exotic materials or multi-junction cells - are prohibitively expensive to make, given the meager performance improvements. I think Nanosolar has the right idea for now - craptastic cells made cheap. Who cares if they're large if they're incredibly inexpensive?

    1. Re:Lab advancements != commercially viable by dunezone · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah but this is like any technology. A few days ago there was an article on why touch table tops are just now coming around. Thats because 30-40 years ago when they were developed they were developed in labs and were extremely expensive. Now with the advancement in technology that produced them its feasible for this technology to be manufactured/developed/sold.

      Give this technology another 20-30 years, maybe even less, and the advancement of production will drop the price.

  6. Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by BlueParrot · · Score: 4, Informative

    If I am not completely mistaken "classical" semi conductor cells can reach efficiencies of 40%, meaning that even with perfect 100% efficiency you would get at best a factor 2.5 improvement. Of course, 100% efficiency is an impossibility and thus I think we can safely assume that these cells will never reach more than 80%-90% efficiency, which would be an improvement of a factor of 2 over current technology. Now last estimate I saw was that in Europe solar cells work out to be about 4 times as expensive as wind power (which is itself rather pricey ), so even assuming the 100% efficiency, efficiency gains alone cannot make solar economical.

    Add in to this that a large part of the cost of solar is the energy needed to produce the cells, which means that if you get that energy from a more expensive power source, the price of the cells will increase. I.e, if one started to replace relatively cheap generation capacity with more expensive solar cells, then the cost of energy, and hence the cost of the cells, would increase.

    It would therefore appear to me that for solar to have a chance to become competitive what is needed is focus on lowering the cost of producing the cells, because the gains from improving their efficiency cannot offset their presently large price, and it appears unlikely that pushing for higher and higher efficiencies will be possible without making the cells more expensive.

    1. Re:Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by clonan · · Score: 4, Informative

      Currently availible non-specialty cells (the cells used for space etc are not used for general power) are typically between 5 and 15%.

      Therefore getting to the 80-90% range would result in a 5-18X improvment.

      Since solar is currently 4X, that means it will drop to .2-.8X of CURRENT power costs.

      Now remember that hydro is essentially 100% tapped. Wind has a much more limited range and is already approaching the likley maximum efficiency. Nuclear is great but will take some time to spin up. Oil/natural gas prices are climbing rapidly and coal is becoming more expensive to mine and or clean.

      Solar PV provides a great load matching power source that will help reduce an individuals demand on the system even if it doesn't complely remove the need for other power sources as well.

    2. Re:Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Photovoltaics can't supply base load now, but that doesn't that you can't get a solar plant to supply base load. The trick is to instead, use thermal energy. We can store the excess thermal energy overnight to continue generating power in the dark, until the sun shines again. Check it out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_thermal_energy

    3. Re:Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by BlueParrot · · Score: 3, Informative

      Currently availible non-specialty cells (the cells used for space etc are not used for general power) are typically between 5 and 15%.

      Therefore getting to the 80-90% range would result in a 5-18X improvment.

      Since solar is currently 4X, that means it will drop to .2-.8X of CURRENT power costs..


      I said 4X WIND POWER costs. Not current power costs. Britain's Royal Academy of Engineering estimates the cost of wind power at roughly 3 times that of nuclear, so even if you achieve 90% efficiency that would put you at roughly twice the cost of nuclear generation ( assuming 15% efficiency for present cells ). Now, to give an idea of how hard 90% efficiency would be to reach, the Sun's average surface temperature is 5778K , meaning a solar cell at 300K could at best reach 95% efficiency without violating the laws of thermodynamics.

      That is, ignoring ANY other problems you are closing in on the theoretical limits allowed by the laws of physics if you are to get such efficiencies, and you have to do this without increasing the costs of your cells. Any dust on the cells and you can forget it. Protective glass coating is a no-no since it would absorb in the UV range. Heck, simply finding a material that is reasonably transparent at all the relevant wavelengths could be tricky. Add in to this that you cannot use any expensive/toxic/rare elements, that the cells should have to last for a long time, that they should survive a wide range of temperatures and be able to handle a reasonable level of abuse, and it becomes far from certain that it is even possible to reach 80% efficiency, let alone to do so in the foreseeable future.

    4. Re:Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by c6gunner · · Score: 4, Interesting

      solar could maybe provide 10% of our needs at most. it can't supply base load, which is something nuclear can do very well. don't tell the tree huggers that though, they want to continue to live in their dream world.


      Just to be contrary: at least in theory, solar COULD supply base-load. All you need to do is integrate the Earth's power grids. Then you'd have a more or less constant amount of current available throughout the grid.

      Of course, this isn't practical - even ignoring the political implications, transmission losses would create serious problems. Getting away from AC current and using DC for all grid transmission could fix part of that problem, but that's not likely to happen any time soon.

      And yes, you're certainly right about nuclear. Realistically, it's our best option at this point in time. That's one thing that France got right.
    5. Re:Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, but who's gonna build the catchium reactors?

    6. Re:Dramatic efficiency improvements unlikely. by locofungus · · Score: 2, Informative

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HVDC#Advantages_of_HVDC_over_AC_transmission

      There are, of course, disadvantages as well. In particular, HVDC doesn't really work well for a grid, only for point to point links. So if you want to move power from one AC grid to another then HVDC makes sense (8GW link under the English Channel for example - note that England and France use the same frequency but different phase - and the angle (presumably) isn't constant - so you'd probably have to use a DC link although that could be just a few metres but once you've got both DC and AC it's cheaper to move power using DC than AC)

      Tim.

      --
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  7. Wow, are u clueless or what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Thermal solar is the lowest costs of all AE except for hydro. At this time, it is the same costs as a recent coal plant i.e. a plant that is cleaner than average. Of course, the solar thermal is clean all the way around.
    In addition, it is fairly easy to store the heat in salts and generate during the night. Spain, Arizona, New Mexico, Northern Africa, etc. are all headed in GW size of solar thermal. Spain expects to sell power back to its northern neighbors at a tidy profits. Arizona has a 1/4 GW install going in. In addition, another group is close to building a 1/2-3/4 GW in NM or southern CO (possible to take advantage of 3 different power companies and 5 states incentives).

    All in all, the only joke is a fool like you.

    1. Re:Wow, are u clueless or what by caffeineboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ..and I'll believe it when I see it.

      Planned installations chasing incentives are a far cry from power plants installed to meet grid needs.

      24h power (storage and retrieval of energy) is unnecessary system complexity when you are not looking to replace the current grid, and at their current level of deployment (nil, pretty much) this is not a concern. You might want to co-fire with natural gas to avoid thermal cycling of your plant like they do at Kramer Junction in CA, but that's beside the point.

      Furthermore, there is a strong disincentive to producing 24h, and that is the overnight bulk rate for electricity - maybe $.06/kwh vs more than $.20 at peak when you have the solar resource.

      --
      +++ ATH0 +++
    2. Re:Wow, are u clueless or what by jelle · · Score: 2, Informative

      The first coal plants couldn't even supply one modern home with power... They have plans to build 'em much bigger, such as 553MW for Mojave Solar Park: http://media.cleantech.com/1522/pg-e-solel-in-553-mw-solar-deal

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  8. Re:Already been done in nature by MountainLogic · · Score: 2

    Polar bears make very poor harry solar solar collectors. Their white fur has a very high albedo and their high latitude habitat results in high Angle of incidence. Generally speaking, grizzlies and black bears are a much better choice of harry solar collectors given their fur color and more equatorial habitat. So the correct solution is to hunt down all the grizzlies and black bears for their skins to make super efficient solar panels so that we can stop the global warming and thus save all the polar bears. There is also the case of the ghost bears, but I'm not clear on their IR albedo.

  9. Fraud alert ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    These guys are scammers ... it's the old When Hairy Met Sili Con.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  10. Wow, ANOTHER solar cell breakthrough by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wake me up when there's actually a cheap product. These articles need their own icon; maybe Bigfoot, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Loch Ness Monster, or La Chupacabra.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
  11. Re:Not first by beav007 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Hairyness makes everything better. I mean, just look at me...

  12. Effort actualy has to be put in by dbIII · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Nuclear always comes up in discussions like this. The answer for nuclear is to put as much effort into research as is going into solar research - instead the money has gone into lobbying to build antiquated plants. If more research was done pebble bed might be furthur along, accelerated thorium might be at the full prototype stage and synrock might have been developed in less than thirty years. Note that the three major developments come from South Africa, India and Australia on fairly small budgets from begrudging governments - think what the USA could have done on venture capital alone. There should be more to civilian nuclear energy than 1960s white elephants painted green.