Kdawson appears to finally have posted something that is news, for nerds, and matters. I wonder who stole his password.
-- A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Re:Astounding...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Don't worry, he will post the dupe any time soon to make up for it.
Re:Astounding...
by
Mad+Merlin
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· Score: 4, Insightful
Are you serious? A release candidate for a random open source project is released, and that's news you care about?
Perhaps if you were paying attention, you'd know that Wine 1.0 has been 15 years in the making. Furthermore, Wine is hardly "a random open source project", Wine reaching 1.0 is a very significant milestone.
Yeah, a very significant milestone that was already reported when RC1 was released, not a long time ago. I wonder if the next RCs will be all posted here as well.
News? Sure. Relevant? Not quite. Should be in frontpage? Definitely no.
That's it, you're not allowed to come to the party when rc is finally dropped from the release number.
No pin the tail on CowboyNeal for you Mr. Snarky Poster.:-P
Re:Astounding...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
And what is special about "1.0" compared to 0.9.61 or other future releases? "1.0" doesn't mean anything particular and it doesn't change the fact that WINE is still a WIP.
Re:Astounding...
by
DuckDodgers
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· Score: 2, Informative
If you read the website, Wine has some internal APIs it uses. For the previous releases, those APIs were subject to change. From 1.0 forward, they are expected to remain stable.
So from an end-user perspective, the move to 1.0 is not noteworthy as a release. But for developers, you hope that contributing to the project becomes easier with a higher likelihood of forward compatibiliy.
Aside from the other responder's comment, many, especially the WINE developers, will celebrate the 1.0 mark. That's quite a mark after 15 years of work, even if it is more of an artificial point in time than of real importance in substance.
Why should anyone celebrate your birthday? You're only a day older than the day before your birthday, after all.
-- Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
Meh. My copy of Master of Orion 2 still freezes with a hung cursor within seconds of starting it. Still haven't figured out the magic words to fix it yet.
-- Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Re:Sweet!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Informative
Dosbox?
Re:Sweet!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Still haven't figured out the magic words to fix it yet. "Please work, you unwieldy behemoth!"?
Yeah, wine still sucks. It makes me question why anyone is comfortable with a 1.0 being slapped next to the name when a serious minority of applications even begin to work and the ones that do tends to have lots of issues.
1.0?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
It's still "rc", but does this mean that Wine is, at long last, becoming *ready*? Will Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc start making snowmen there where they are?
Yes. The project entered a 1-month "bugfixes only" mode with the release of RC1.
But what we really want to know is...
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 1, Insightful
Will it run on windows?
Re:But what we really want to know is...
by
neomunk
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· Score: 1
Yes, under cygwin.
Iteratively actually, IIRC.
really getting good
by
oever
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· Score: 3, Informative
Even though using Wine for apps remains a hit and miss, I've had some very good experiences working with it. At work, I'm developing a closed source Delphi application. Even though the full Delphi 2007 development environment does not run in Wine, I can run the compiler and the resulting application which is very complex (lots of COM and OpenGL) runs for 95% in Wine. It's good to know that we can get this working if customers start asking for it.
-- DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
If you want to help:
by
Daimanta
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· Score: 5, Informative
Click on the big alphanumerical hyperlink and download the exe.
Give an alias and run it.
This will do conformance tests on your computer and it is very important to the wine project.
Don't try to do anything usefull while testing since it will do a wide range of things including directX tests which will make your screen display colorfields.
If you get errors or crashes, just click on OK or close. This is part of the testing. I'm sure the people working on the wine project will be very happy with it.
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Does it help wine project in any way if I run those tests with a windows installation running under a virtual machine?
I would sure like to help by playing my little part and I also have a native windows installation on my laptop but I wouldn't want to boot into it unless I really need to:)
To tell you the truth, I have no idea whatsoever. My personal guess is, that since it's a working XP installation it ought to work. If you try it anyway and it works I would like to hear the results.
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
I'm afraid you can't. At the end of the test, the program asks you if you want to submit the test data. Before that nothing happens unless you click abort and then send the results I believe.
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Since you said you wanted to see the results I decided to reply to your post to inform you that I submitted it under the alias xp-virtualbox. Have a look;-)
Re:If you want to help:
by
JoshJ
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· Score: 3, Informative
Posting here so I can find the link in my profile when I boot into windows. Please disregard.
Works fine, you don't seem to have an exceptional amount of errors or anything of that nature. I guess that means that virtual boxes allow conformance tests just fine. Thanks for trying:)
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Likewise, except on an Intel Mac running XP. People who run this should know that there's a real risk of BSOD and full system crash, which, apparently, makes the whole testing attempt worthless. We are not amused.
Re:If you want to help:
by
hansraj
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· Score: 4, Funny
OK.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Ah well winmm_test.exe brought my system to a complete halt... Handle with care!
Re:If you want to help:
by
Moridineas
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· Score: 1
Submitted one "XpSp2Parallels" running in Parallels on OSX.
What exactly is this testing, and what do the results mean?
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Same here,
Tried on a thinkpad X31, got two bsod in a row and thought "ok, this isn't going to work, is it?"
Not sure how to capture the bsod text or if this could help wine.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Matt+Perry
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· Score: 1
What exactly is this testing, and what do the results mean?
This page will answer that question. In short, the program performs tests to check for regressions in the Wine code.
-- Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Re:If you want to help:
by
MichaelSmith
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· Score: 1
Looking for a bit of advice.
My wife is an architect. She has just started using CAD (Autodesk Revit). We were at the shop yesterday looking for a new windows box for her to use but she fell in love with an iMAC which was on display.
I can get more RAM for the MAC, and parallels, but is it likely to be practical to run Revit on parallels? I know that it would be hopeless on vmware. She needs mouse interaction to be perfect.
I am just looking for an indication of how fast windows runs in parallels.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Moridineas
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· Score: 1
To be honest, I'm not sure what to tell you. Definitely load it up with as much ram as you can, if you decide to go this route!
Every day kind of windows things like running Internet Explorer are flawless and fast. I've had a little luck with some games, but performance is diminished. Since AutoCAD is graphical, I would imagine the answer is a big "it depends." It does seem like there are a number of google hits for Parallels and Revit,s you might have some luck reading forums etc.
Also (I'm sure you know this already) but you can dual boot from OSX into windows, and in that case it will be a completely normal windows install.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Mad+Merlin
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· Score: 1
They're conformance tests, so they check the behaviour of various API calls to make sure that a) Windows does what it's supposed to, and b) Wine does what Windows does.
The first point is significant because MSDN is wrong quite often, and the API often changes behaviour from one Windows version to the next. So the only way to find out what Wine should really be doing is to write conformance tests and run them everywhere you can.
Nice link.. however... How do I know that's the latest build? Up top there is a link to go to the "Next Build" and it takes me to a new glob of numbers. How do we know we aren't giving them old data?
True, but I normally go directly to the data pages. But you have a point. The next time an article about Wine appears I'll change the link to the one that is always correct.
By the way, the conformance is going A OK. They are a huge success and the number of reports is 5 times the usual. Thanks for the help,/.
-- Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Re:If you want to help:
by
mentaldrano
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· Score: 5, Funny
If you have a Windows installation This is/. - almost everyone here runs Windows while secretly pretending to be a Linux guru.
The people who do run Linux pretend to run *BSD, to maintain their elite status.
No one actually runs *BSD except Theo de Raadt (he actually runs NetBSD, OpenBSD is a hoax) ~
I submitted mine.;) I was mainly just curious. The link you posted had no date/time or evidence to point to it being the latest. I wasn't "calling you out." I was just trying to make sure the effort wasn't fruitless.
-- Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
Re:If you want to help:
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Mod points on drugs:)
Re:If you want to help:
by
UncleTogie
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· Score: 1
What if the test generates an error in d3d9_test.exe, and reboots the PC shortly thereafter?
-- Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Re:If you want to help:
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Psychotria
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· Score: 1
Ditto
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
got an explorer.exe crash but that's about it. submitted and hope it helps!
I use VMware Fusion regularly on Mac OS X, and do not have any problems with the mouse integration; both the trackpad on my MacBook Pro and any attached mice work as they should. Is there some reason that you feel this isn't the case?
From my experience, VMware Fusion (especially the latest 2.0 beta) seems superior to Parallels, and is more portable (e.g. if you want to use a virtual machine on a non-Mac OS, i.e. in VMware Player or Workstation). If you use the beta, be sure to turn off debugging for better performance.
Just make sure that you're using XP with it, so you can take advantage of hardware-accelerated DirectX, and that you give it a good chunk of RAM. Also, if you're talking about a dual-core iMac, which you most likely are, let it use 2 virtual processors. You'll notice a difference.
Hope this helps.
Re:If you want to help:
by
jeremy_white
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· Score: 5, Interesting
For those wondering where the latest data is: in http://test.winehq.org, click on the
"Last Modified" column twice, that will bring the latest data to the
top.
Thanks to everyone who submitted data so far! We have enough reports
for XP now, but any other version of Windows would be handy.
Be sure to run this again when wine-1.0-rc3 comes out next week.
I know your comment was a joke, but I just have to say I left Windows years ago and the only looking back I did was to consider if I wanted to run it just for playing a Windows game, then I quickly shook my head and fired up Wine. Even when Wine failed, I just couldn't bring myself back to the pain of installing Windows drivers again. Not that it was all that painful, but still, "just works" (usually) is so much nicer.
Now if Linux would just adopt "third-party" program and driver installation standards, so that you *could* do it like in Windows, when it was needed, without recompilation, that would be a nice feature.
-- Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I don't think so. We would like to know which test causes it, though.
Also, to be clear: each time we have a new release candidate of Wine, we also have a new build of winetest with fixed tests. When Jeremy said "please run this again when we release rc3", he meant "please grab a fresh winetest.exe when we release rc3, and run it..."
I know OpenBSD does exist. One morning after a night of heavy drinking and card games I woke up to discover I'd installed it.
Now, if only I could duplicate the feat while sober.
-- I am trolling
Re:If you want to help:
by
ByteSlicer
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· Score: 1
The test ddraw_test.exe dsurface crashes (BSOD) my laptop (Compaq 6710b running XP SP2). On my desktop the test suite also causes BSODs, but not always, and I'm not sure in the same test.
My wife is an architect. She has just started using CAD (Autodesk Revit). We were at the shop yesterday looking for a new windows box for her to use but she fell in love with an iMAC which was on display.
If she "fell in love" with it just because of the 'looks cool' factor, rather than OSX, then just install Windows on it...
Install it to a bootcamp partition. Then you can either boot directly to it or point your VMware at the partition and run it from OS X. That's what I do. I have not seen any mouse issues with the latest versions of VMware Fusion, BTW. This is the way we have all our Apple machines configured for people who need windows-only software - no problems to date.
With this configuration you can see if it runs acceptably in the virtualized environment, but if it doesn't you can always boot windows directly and run it at full speed.
-- "terrorism" and "pedophilia" are the root passwords to the Constitution
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Getting
Error sending 2,10054 during upload. Happened twice. The file is still in.../temp though. Any way to upload/email it?
Re:If you want to help:
by
DMUTPeregrine
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· Score: 1
BootCamp+winXP is probably your best bet, for the moment. Using a VM still needs a copy of Windows, and will be a bit slower. My father is one of the Revit developers (codes the geometric modeler) and I've tried running it under WINE. It fails, sadly. As others have pointed out VMWare Fusion has gotten better. As with any VM the problem is that the VM adds overhead. More RAM, more video ram, and a faster processor (or more cores) should mitigate those problems.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
My machine crashed during the tests. The test-app doesn't seem to handle this and this information isn't sent to the Wine-team;o(
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
.. or you could use Opera 9.50 (still Beta sadly) that automatically Syncs your bookmarks in your Win/Linux/whatever-box or even cell-phone.
ItÂs a new feature called Opera Link http://www.opera.com/products/link/
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
I run parallels on an intel macbook with 2 gigs of ram and it runs pretty flawlessly. The iMacs are probably even more powerful than my macbook being as they're desktops. Also, install windows first using bootcamp, which is a utility that is already installed in Leopard (you'll need your own copy of windows however). Then install "rEFIt", which is an application that creates a menu when you start-up to ask you which operating system you want to boot into. Once windows is installed natively, you can install parallels and have it access your existing installation. This means you can install windows once, and either boot into it or run it virtually through parallels... Very Slick.
Note: Parallels now has an integration mode that makes the windows programs open as if they were part of the mac OS.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Matt+Perry
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· Score: 1
Does it help to run the tests on stock installs or should the OS have been used for some time and have a variety of applications installed? I can put together some machines with various versions of Windows to run these tests but they will be fresh installs. Does that help at all?
-- Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
Re:If you want to help:
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Really? That is the only thing that sticks me to Windows.. I have no Hope for Corel Draw:(
Catch 22 situation
by
dr.Flake
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· Score: 3, Interesting
Unfortunately, If you look at the AppDb you'll see a lot of apps still not working 100%. F.i. Graphpad prism disappointed me last week. Most of them don't work because of some minor glitz. Before you say, well fix it you stupid, repairing them would introduce new regressions.
I think its mostly because of some "hacks" used by lazy/clever/performance programmer, but therefore very intolerant to a "windows-like" environment.
I hope Wine will get to the point, where it's influence will force programmers to stick to the specifications, as his/her boss is asking:" but will it also run under Wine???".
Ps. I hope the number of RC's will remain below 40.
-- Why are other peoples sig's always more witty ???
Re:Catch 22 situation
by
SanityInAnarchy
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· Score: 3, Insightful
I think its mostly because of some "hacks" used by lazy/clever/performance programmer, but therefore very intolerant to a "windows-like" environment. Do you have anything to back this up?
Because Windows itself is incredibly hackish, especially when it comes to backwards compatibility. If Wine was simply striving to be a good Win32 implementation, they'd be pretty much done already -- someone developing an app, from the ground up, to be able to run on Windows and Wine shouldn't have too much more trouble than someone designing a web app, from the ground up, to run in IE and Firefox.
But Wine strives for bug-for-bug compatibility. There are a lot of bugs in Windows, and a lot of apps depend on those bugs.
I hope Wine will get to the point, where it's influence will force programmers to stick to the specifications, as his/her boss is asking:" but will it also run under Wine???". That assumes something else -- that Windows sticks to the specs. On top of all of the above, Windows doesn't stick to the specs.
-- Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Re:Catch 22 situation
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
From my experience, it's usually the boss asking for the fancy shortcuts to help keep costs down.
I'm reasonably familiar with the common syscalls in Linux, and usually when a question on its specific behavior comes up I RTFM and usually get the answer. I've been playing with Win32 a while ago, and the API simply feels like a mess to me. Maybe it's just because I'm a rookie, but whenever I have need a clarification on the (supposed) behavior I usually don't find it in the official docs, and I'd be lucky to find some "rumors"/"tips"/"tricks" from some "expert sites" that touches upon the issue. That, and I've seen behavior change between versions of windows, with no warning from the current official docs unless you dig out the old docs from decades ago.
The impression I got was that to interface with the Win32 API, you *guess* the behavior of the OS, write something on those assumptions, and then test whether your guesses are correct. If you don't get it working the first time, keep tweaking until you got working code. In the end, your code seems to work but you don't really know why.
I sorta understand why it's so hard to implement the Win32API.... Microsoft themselves don't really do it that well. The only reason apps run on Windows is because they're designed to.
-- Don't quote me on this.
Re:Catch 22 situation
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Ps. I hope the number of RC's will remain below 40.
That's almost certain, the final 1.0 release is planned for this summer roughly around one of the points that could be considered the project's 15th birthday, so they won't have time for 40 RCs before then.
Microsoft Office 2003 bug fix
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 4, Funny
Bug fix 13343: Microsoft Office 2003 won't install Great! Finally, I can install Wine without worrying about accidentally installing Office 2003.
Thanks, guys! Great work!
Does Wine work...
by
dargaud
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· Score: 2, Interesting
I have tried Wine a few times without success and the documentation was sparse at the time. It has probably improved, but anyone cares to tell me:
- can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ?
- can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ?
- what kind of programs won't work ?.NET ? ActiveX ? DirectX ?
- Photophop ?
- How much of a performance hit do you take ?
-Yes, usually. -Yes, usually. -Specific programs don't work, not general categories. -Mostly. Go check out its entry on "appDB.winehq.org" for specifics. -Wine isn't an emulator. For programs that wine works properly with there is no performance hit.
So far, the only program I have really tried is DOD:Source, a Steam game. But based on this: -Running the installer worked -I had to fiddle with the WINE registry a bit, fortunately some forum explained how to do that -now DOD runs crash-free (since yesterday, RC1 still had a bug that made it crash) -yes, DirectX works (good enough to support the HL2 engine, but probably not 100% complete yet) -the performance hit is significant, so don't expect to run the very latest games on WINE yet
- can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ?
Yes, unless the installer tries to do something that wine doesn't support.
- can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ?
Yes. Wine keeps its own windows system directory and applications can put their junk anywhere on the virtual C drive.
- what kind of programs won't work ?.NET ? ActiveX ? DirectX ?
I tried to install a.NET program the other day and it failed at the very end with an error I didn't understand. The program didn't work either.
- Photophop ?
Supposedly. You can look up support for applications at appdb.winehq.org
- How much of a performance hit do you take ?
It depends on the application. For some games there is no difference. For others, they are much slower.
Re:Does Wine work...
by
Mad+Merlin
·
· Score: 2, Interesting
-the performance hit is significant, so don't expect to run the very latest games on WINE yet
There's no inherent performance hit with using Wine, indeed many programs/games run at the same speed (or faster) than on Windows itself. The places where you see slowdown is typically where support is incomplete, possibly causing software fallbacks.
Well, DOD is slower under WINE. At least with the default settings of WINE. I have not researched the exact cause of the slowdown, so it could be any of the following: -The NVidia Linux drivers being inferior to the Windows ones (I'm running their closed source driver for Linux). -more overhead in the Xserver compared to the Windows DirectX API -overhead in WINE's translation from DirectX to OpenGL, including software fallbacks as you suggested.
Obviously not all of those would be the fault of the WINE team, and the results may differ for other games. Especially if the game uses OpenGL on Windows, in that case I'd expect the translation to Linux API calls to be much simpler.
-- C - the footgun of programming languages
Re:Does Wine work...
by
ACS+Solver
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· Score: 2, Interesting
From personal experience:
- You can run a Windows installer, that's the normal way of installing software under Wine, in fact. Standard installers work fine most of the time. - You need to override some DLLs for some application - fortunately it's easily done through wineconfig, and the Wine App DB is helpful in specifying settings that improve the compatibility for a certain app. Generally, installers that want to put stuff into c:\windows aren't a problem as Wine maintains a virtual C: drive. - Some.NET apps may actually run natively if you use Mono. I've found Wine.NET support to be so-so. DirectX is well-supported. DX8 is fully supported, DX9 is for the most part. I've played Half-Life 2 successfully with Wine, although for the Episodes, you need to turn HDR off - that's an example of a missing DX9 feature in Wine. Sometimes you may take a performance hit if software fallbacks are required. - Photoshop runs well. In fact, Photoshop is one of the applications that Wine 1.0 is supposed to run perfectly. - Performance is very application-specific. Sometimes they'll run at Windows performance levels or even better. HL2 performed as well as on Windows for me, while Civilization 4 performs somewhat worse, and Oblivion (though it's been a long time since I ran it) performed considerably worse. The small utility applications I often use Wine for run as well as on Windows.
As a user, one of the bigger problems I notice with Wine are regression bugs. It's not uncommon for an app to work well in one version, be very much broken in the next, and so on. It's something frequently experienced with Deus Ex - sometimes Wine runs it perfectly, sometimes it crashes after startup. Wine generally avoids implementing application-specific code to make certain applications work properly, which sometimes makes compatibility difficult.
Best results for me with Kubuntu 7.10 and 8.04 have been to install WINE from the distro repository, then run wineconfig to *sort of like* get a combination of 'control panel' and 'device manager', set this up, then for example: I popped in an install cd for Fallout, navigated to the cd in Konqueror, right clicked on the 'setup.exe' file, selcted 'run with wine' and it was just like being on windows after that until I exited the finished install. To further the "Windows" experience, you can then go your applications button (Kmenu for me), go to Wine, then you will have four entries: 1. Programs-select this and it will list the installed app's folder, then the.exe that starts the app- just like using the Windows Start button to launch an app.
You can also use a file manager to do the same-/home/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/yadda yadda yadda.
Or even better open a terminal and just launch the app in wine.
I set up wine in win98 compatibility mode, as the games I like are a bit old and just run better in 98 than xp.
And the forums and online Doc's are a lot better than they used to be. That's how this n00b got back to playing Fallout and Fallout2.
Unfortuneately, I have not been able to get Tom Clancey's SSN to work.:(
Basically, I'm 2 out of 5: Fallout, Fallout 2 both work great. SSN, Flanker 2.0, and Connectix Virtual Game Station, no go-
-- Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
I've found the Photoshop support in the latest point releases to still have quite a few issues.
Photoshop 7 is well supported and has been for a while. CS is well supported although there are a few quirks. CS2 works well enough to be usable, but activation is broken for numerous reasons (although a solution has been worked out). CS3 doesn't work at all.
Considering I've spent a great deal of time and money on training and software, and regularly depend on the features of CS2 and CS3, only being able to use CS and Photoshop 7 is a real downer.
I'm going to guess that most of the performance hit here is in the DirectX implementation, though I'm not sure. Are recent OpenGL games slower under Wine?
To take a much older example, Quake 3 Arena ran faster under Wine/Linux than it did under Windows 2000 (on the same machine), and the native Linux version was even faster than that. So any performance hit is really a particular implementation of Wine, combined with a particular app -- sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's slower, just like sometimes it works, and sometimes not.
As far as.NET support goes, I can attest that managed C++ (console) applications work for me under Wine as of the latest releases. This is important because it may be a long time before Mono is able to support managed C++ applications at all. But for pretty much all other cases, Mono is probably your better bet to get.NET code running. Especially with the recent announcement with regards to WinForms 2.0 support.
Re:Does Wine work...
by
SanityInAnarchy
·
· Score: 2, Informative
- can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ? Integration is fairly good, for a single user. With the standard Ubuntu Wine package, you can double-click on EXEs to run them. Installers work fine, and at least on Kubuntu, they can install working shortcuts to your desktop, and the Windows start menu is under the K-menu, under "Wine" (so I can go K->Wine->Programs->Accessories->Notepad, for example).
- can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ? Wine lives in ~/.wine, with a fake C drive at ~/.wine/drive_c (by default). So I don't really see any reason this wouldn't work -- the DLL would go in ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/wherever.
However, drivers won't work, for obvious reasons. In very few instances, there will be a separate project to wrap a DLL for Linux -- captive ntfs, ndiswrapper, etc -- but these are considered workarounds until a native, open Linux version can be written.
- what kind of programs won't work ?.NET ? ActiveX ? DirectX ? DirectX works fine, but won't be as fast as OpenGL. Don't know about ActiveX, but you can run up to IE6 under Wine, and (last I checked) you can use the IE7 engine in IE6 -- and, going the other way, Wine can embed a Gecko engine for when an app requests a web browser via ActiveX (for example, the MOTD on Counter-Strike servers is HTML).
Haven't looked into.NET in awhile. If it's a pure.NET project, there's a separate project for that: Mono. Because.NET is compile-once, run anywhere, like Java, a.NET app running under Mono should do about as well as it does under Windows. Because.NET on Windows is so tightly integrated, and makes it so easy to call out to native DLLs, many.NET apps don't work under Mono, and never will.
I believe there are voodoo ways of combining Mono and Wine, but I don't know how to do that. I don't know if Microsoft's own.NET runtime works under Wine.
- Photophop ? What's Photophop?
Seriously, look it up yourself: Most apps are listed at AppDB, and PhotoShop CS2 is listed as Platinum, which is the highest possible rating.
- How much of a performance hit do you take ? Again, look at AppDB. It depends on the app whether it will run at all, and how fast it will run. Some apps -- even some games -- run faster under Wine than under Windows. Some run slower. Most, especially office apps, have no perceptible difference, so I don't usually care to benchmark it.
For me, by now, the procedure for testing a Wine app is to first, try it on a clean ~/.wine (or set WINEPREFIX -- I actually regularly keep multiple Wine directories around) -- if it works in the simplest way possible, I'll do that. Otherwise, especially if it's a game (and especially if it's a Blizzard game, which defaults to DirectX but can be coerced into OpenGL mode), Google for that app under Wine, and check AppDB.
If I find a workable solution, I use it. Otherwise, I boot a real Windows, either natively or in a VM. I'm not a Wine developer, and I don't want to be.
My guess here is that it's mostly going to be either the NVidia Linux drivers, or the DirectX-in-OpenGL implementation.
The only games I've tried to get working under Wine lately are a small 2D MMO called Nexus TK, for which performance hardly matters (but it's nice to be able to force it into a window), and Warcraft III, which has some hidden OpenGL mode, and works flawlessly once you put it in that mode.
For the most part, though, I have a few games that are worth booting into Windows for, and which I'll be playing for large amounts of time. And then I have a few games that work well enough under Wine. But most of the games I play have native Linux versions -- most recently, Penny Arcade's Rainslick Precipice of Darkness.
Running Windows in a virtual machine and Photoshop CS3 on top of it might work. I have a dual-core Pentium D 2.8 Ghz and 4 GB of fast memory and am optimistic that I can get it running, well even, based on the anecdotes I've read. However I'm still comparing VMware, VirtualBox, Xen and QEMU and haven't tried anything yet.
I run Photoshop and Guild Wars under Wine on UbuntuStudio.
Guild Wars has no anti-alias under Wine, and consequently the performance is better than on Windows. I've seen a few graphical glitches, but they're nowhere near as bad as under Cedega.
CS3 doesn't work at all. Windows users frequently have the same issue with CS3, so that's not saying much.;)
-- All rites reversed 2010
Re:Does Wine work...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
- Yes - Yes - Depends, see the AppDB - Yes (CS2 or below) - It varies...in some cases the App in Wine runs faster than on windows, but most other run about the same and a rare few are dogs
Re:Does Wine work...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You do realize that NVIDIA's Linux video drivers and Windows video drivers and Solaris video drivers and FreeBSD video drivers and Mac OSX video drivers are all the same, with a OS specific wrapper that allows it to talk to the hardware via the kernel. At worst, the drivers for other OSes trail the Windows drivers by a few months.
Re:Does Wine work...
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Bambi+Dee
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· Score: 2, Interesting
With the standard Ubuntu Wine package, you can double-click on EXEs to run them.
This hasn't been working for a while now. Konqueror shows.EXEs as Windows Executables... fine. Wine Windows Emulator is that filetype's Preferred Application... fine. And they run just fine from the context menu, too! Just not with a double-click. Dumps this in the console (for example): "run-detectors: unable to find an interpreter for/mnt/windows/Programme/firefox/firefox.exe"... as though I'd tried to directly run just firefox.exe, without wine.
According to Konqueror, properties for wine.desktop are:
Application: Wine Windows Emulator
Command: wine start/unix %f
Mimetype: application/x-executable, Description: Executable File
Mimetype: application/x-msdos-program, Description: Windows Executable
I removed x-executable from that because, well, it was leading to Konq offering me to run Linux executables with Wine preferably (but again it didn't run Wine for them when double-clicking them). No difference, put it back, no difference, removed it again, no difference.
Just in case you or anyone is reading this and has any idea what can be done here... it's one of several slightly odd annoyances with even a freshly installed stock Konqueror (it's missing its "Go" and "Window" menus, too), and I'm still more than a little lost in its configuration!
perhaps with kubuntu... but i am running ubuntu and just downloaded firefox; double clicking the download in ff's download manager launched the installer and so did double clicking the exe from the file manager.
You do realize that NVIDIA's Linux video drivers and Windows video drivers and Solaris video drivers and FreeBSD video drivers and Mac OSX video drivers are all the same, with a OS specific wrapper that allows it to talk to the hardware via the kernel. I do.
Do you realize that NVIDIA's Linux video drivers frequently crash? Anywhere from the X server segfaulting to the entire machine locking up? And when they don't crash, they occasionally freeze...
We have only their word that as much code is shared as they say it is. Even if that's true, there could still be something happening with the OS-specific wrapper. And if they can outright crash more on Linux than they do on Windows, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there might be a difference in performance.
I've got no idea what's causing your problems, or if Dolphin would be any better.
I generally run installers from the commandline, but once installed, it even seems to keep track of things like WINEPREFIX -- and those "Start Menu" entries did work, last I tried.
I've not run any Windows "setup.exe" type things with this Wine installation yet (I have a lot of stuff on an existing Windows installation that runs ok with Wine without first installing it into ~/.wine/drive_c/...); it's Konqueror's refusal to run double-clicked.EXEs with the "wine" command that confuses me...
Re:Does Wine work...
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Cool! At least one friend will be very pleased to hear that. He's been wanting to stop using XP/Vista for a while now, but it's critical that this game work very well (and the voice chat program they use). Are you running the latest version?
Well, I got Photoshop CS3 to work pretty well on Vista running in a VirtualBox virtual machine. It was easy: I cut Vista down with vLite and it installed to 2.3GB (8GB normally). For 1600x1200 res files it worked snappily, but when I resized a picture to an approx 12000x10000 (100MB+) file it started having scratch space problems so I'm making a bigger drive.
I don't know your requirements but this method might work.
No more Corel Wine support, thanks to Microsoft
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Why isn't Microsoft working with the Wine project?
Why hasn't Microsoft absolved the Wine project from any lawsuits?
Where is Microsoft doing anything to increase interoperability with Linux and Windows as they have said they were several times?
Where is DirectX for Linux from Microsoft?
Why does Microsoft have an interoperability forum on their website where you can discuss it but no ports of their software for Linux? How many years and versions of Microsoft Office, Media Player, Internet Explorer, and other tools have been released without a Linux version for purchase (and the latter examples, for download)?
Why should we have to rely on Wine, Cedega, and other projects to attempt support for Windows programs on Linux when Microsoft has claimed they were all about Open Source and interoperability?
When will justice come down on Microsoft for its crimes? Is the Department of Justice blind?
Where is the law in the USA? In the palms greased by Microsoft money?
Corel was working towards Wine version 1 when they entered an agreement with Microsoft, and shortly after did away with Corel Linux and Wine funding/support. Thanks Microsoft, I thought you weren't anti-Linux like those Corel people said years ago, what a fucking joke!
Re:No more Corel Wine support, thanks to Microsoft
by
Tubal-Cain
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· Score: 1
Troll, but I'll bite.
Why isn't Microsoft working with the Wine project? Why should they help a direct competitor?
Why hasn't Microsoft absolved the Wine project from any lawsuits? What can MS sue them for?
Where is Microsoft doing anything to increase interoperability with Linux and Windows as they have said they were several times? Some work with Novell in the network integration area, and they (begrudgingly) handed over neccisary details of AD to SAMBA.
Where is DirectX for Linux from Microsoft? Why would we want that? I think we would prefer that games be written in OpenGL.
Why does Microsoft have an interoperability forum on their website where you can discuss it but no ports of their software for Linux? How many years and versions of Microsoft Office, Media Player, Internet Explorer, and other tools have been released without a Linux version for purchase (and the latter examples, for download)? Why should we have to rely on Wine, Cedega, and other projects to attempt support for Windows programs on Linux when Microsoft has claimed they were all about Open Source and interoperability? Because it looks good to the press. We all have known that for some time now.
When will justice come down on Microsoft for its crimes? Is the Department of Justice blind? Thursday
Re:No more Corel Wine support, thanks to Microsoft
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
typical non-informative MS shill response. Do you like eggs, Ballmer monkey munchkin?
It seems like incremental reporting would be useful here.
If everyone stops sending reports starting at test #5, they can be reasonably sure that test #5 is crashing.
Several error msgs from windows,didn't send info. Should have for the heck of it.
Said it uploaded test results.
Completed with no desktop icons, background ok.
Rebooted from task manager.
Icons rearranged. Searched for new hardware. Sound drivers?
Killed firefox. Had to download with IE and reinstall.
Hope the test helped.
15 years in the making...
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Donniedarkness
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· Score: 1
I'm wondering if it'll run The Sims 2.... That's the only thing that my girlfriend misses about Windows.
Regardless, WINE is an amazing project.
-- Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
Re:15 years in the making...
by
nawcom
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· Score: 0
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=1942
nope, sorry to ruin your evening.
However, Sims 2 has a Mac OS X version, and with a little help You can run it on your PC. I was first a linux user, and when I studied up on the bsd backend of OS X, I became interested. OS X comes with X11, so you can compile most unix(ala linux included) apps on OS X. Anyway, hope this sortof helps
Well, that's interesting. I got a BSOD about 60% through the tests... not seen one of them in a while.
No Mac binaries
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
STILL no native build for OS X.
Favoritism to CrossOver, perhaps?
Re:No Mac binaries
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Who would make binaries for McDonalds anyways? a Big Mac with binaries? I would like cheese with that! And what is this OS X? X is a graphics system, not an OS, foo! Next, you are probably telling me that the mind behind this is a fruit??
Which, if you're right, would mean I run Linux and Windows. Which, if you're right, would mean I run Windows and... euhm... What's below Windows on the evolutionary/social status ladder? Nothing, I guess:)
Re:But I DO run BSD and Linux!
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Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
What's below Windows on the evolutionary/social status ladder? Shattered glass?
Seriously, 5 seconds?
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
You expect to be able to install a Microsoft program in 5 seconds? What kind of supercomputer are you running? Perhaps you believe that the magic of Linux will solve all of MS's woes.
BSOD backtrace
by
Anonymous Coward
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· Score: 0
Well, in theory you could help the people who made your device driver. If you set your Windows to make a kernel memory dump, you can make a backtrace with WinDbg. But most device drivers do not have debugging symbols available.
BTW, normal program should not be able to BSOD your system. If they do it is a bug AFAIK.
Anyway, I got a BSOD too. Error: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGES_AREA in igxpdv32.dll (Intel graphics driver).
Here's some debugging information for ya':
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50) Arg1: c86e6396, memory referenced. Arg2: 00000000, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation. Arg3: bf059a90, If non-zero, the instruction address which referenced the bad memory address. Arg4: 00000000, (reserved)
Slashdot Mirror
Spill the WINE and take that PERL.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Kdawson appears to finally have posted something that is news, for nerds, and matters. I wonder who stole his password.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Wait, wait, wait.
Are you telling me that it is now possible to run Visual Studio 2005... IN LINUX?
See ya, Windows! I won't be calling you again. Ever.
It's still "rc", but does this mean that Wine is, at long last, becoming *ready*? Will Hitler, Stalin, Mao, etc start making snowmen there where they are?
Will it run on windows?
Even though using Wine for apps remains a hit and miss, I've had some very good experiences working with it. At work, I'm developing a closed source Delphi application. Even though the full Delphi 2007 development environment does not run in Wine, I can run the compiler and the resulting application which is very complex (lots of COM and OpenGL) runs for 95% in Wine. It's good to know that we can get this working if customers start asking for it.
DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
If you have a Windows installation
Go to this page : http://test.winehq.org/data/3c1c6172779510a7ed693d922fb3061948999ea1/
Click on the big alphanumerical hyperlink and download the exe.
Give an alias and run it.
This will do conformance tests on your computer and it is very important to the wine project.
Don't try to do anything usefull while testing since it will do a wide range of things including directX tests which will make your screen display colorfields.
If you get errors or crashes, just click on OK or close. This is part of the testing. I'm sure the people working on the wine project will be very happy with it.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Parent deserves to be modded up Informative!
Unfortunately,
If you look at the AppDb you'll see a lot of apps still not working 100%. F.i. Graphpad prism disappointed me last week. Most of them don't work because of some minor glitz. Before you say, well fix it you stupid, repairing them would introduce new regressions.
I think its mostly because of some "hacks" used by lazy/clever/performance programmer, but therefore very intolerant to a "windows-like" environment.
I hope Wine will get to the point, where it's influence will force programmers to stick to the specifications, as his/her boss is asking:" but will it also run under Wine???".
Ps. I hope the number of RC's will remain below 40.
Why are other peoples sig's always more witty ???
Thanks, guys! Great work!
I have tried Wine a few times without success and the documentation was sparse at the time. It has probably improved, but anyone cares to tell me: .NET ? ActiveX ? DirectX ?
- can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ?
- can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ?
- what kind of programs won't work ?
- Photophop ?
- How much of a performance hit do you take ?
Non-Linux Penguins ?
Why isn't Microsoft working with the Wine project?
Why hasn't Microsoft absolved the Wine project from any lawsuits?
Where is Microsoft doing anything to increase interoperability with Linux and Windows as they have said they were several times?
Where is DirectX for Linux from Microsoft?
Why does Microsoft have an interoperability forum on their website where you can discuss it but no ports of their software for Linux? How many years and versions of Microsoft Office, Media Player, Internet Explorer, and other tools have been released without a Linux version for purchase (and the latter examples, for download)?
Why should we have to rely on Wine, Cedega, and other projects to attempt support for Windows programs on Linux when Microsoft has claimed they were all about Open Source and interoperability?
When will justice come down on Microsoft for its crimes? Is the Department of Justice blind?
Where is the law in the USA? In the palms greased by Microsoft money?
Corel was working towards Wine version 1 when they entered an agreement with Microsoft, and shortly after did away with Corel Linux and Wine funding/support. Thanks Microsoft, I thought you weren't anti-Linux like those Corel people said years ago, what a fucking joke!
It seems like incremental reporting would be useful here. If everyone stops sending reports starting at test #5, they can be reasonably sure that test #5 is crashing.
-- I was raised on the command line, bitch
Several error msgs from windows,didn't send info. Should have for the heck of it. Said it uploaded test results. Completed with no desktop icons, background ok. Rebooted from task manager. Icons rearranged. Searched for new hardware. Sound drivers? Killed firefox. Had to download with IE and reinstall. Hope the test helped.
Regardless, WINE is an amazing project.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
Well, that's interesting. I got a BSOD about 60% through the tests... not seen one of them in a while.
STILL no native build for OS X.
Favoritism to CrossOver, perhaps?
Which, if you're right, would mean I run Linux and Windows. :)
Which, if you're right, would mean I run Windows and... euhm...
What's below Windows on the evolutionary/social status ladder?
Nothing, I guess
You expect to be able to install a Microsoft program in 5 seconds? What kind of supercomputer are you running? Perhaps you believe that the magic of Linux will solve all of MS's woes.
Well, in theory you could help the people who made your device driver. If you set your Windows to make a kernel memory dump, you can make a backtrace with WinDbg. But most device drivers do not have debugging symbols available.
BTW, normal program should not be able to BSOD your system. If they do it is a bug AFAIK.
Anyway, I got a BSOD too. Error: PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGES_AREA in igxpdv32.dll (Intel graphics driver).
Here's some debugging information for ya':
PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA (50)
Arg1: c86e6396, memory referenced.
Arg2: 00000000, value 0 = read operation, 1 = write operation.
Arg3: bf059a90, If non-zero, the instruction address which referenced the bad memory address.
Arg4: 00000000, (reserved)
Debugging Details:
READ_ADDRESS: c86e6396
FAULTING_IP:
igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+66a0
bf059a90 f30f6f01 movdqu xmm0,xmmword ptr [ecx]
IMAGE_NAME: igxpdv32.DLL
MODULE_NAME: igxpdv32
FAULTING_MODULE: bf04f000 igxpdv32
DEFAULT_BUCKET_ID: DRIVER_FAULT
PROCESS_NAME: ddraw_test.exe
TRAP_FRAME: a9051ac4 -- (.trap 0xffffffffa9051ac4)
ErrCode = 00000000
eax=b2800200 ebx=b2800200 ecx=c86e638e edx=00000020 esi=00000200 edi=00000000
eip=bf059a90 esp=a9051b38 ebp=00000200 iopl=0 nv up ei pl nz na po nc
cs=0008 ss=0010 ds=0023 es=0023 fs=0030 gs=0000 efl=00010202
igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+0x66a0:
bf059a90 f30f6f01 movdqu xmm0,xmmword ptr [ecx] ds:0023:c86e638e=
Resetting default scope
LAST_CONTROL_TRANSFER: from 8051cc4f to 804f8cb5
STACK_TEXT:
a9051a4c 8051cc4f 00000050 c86e6396 00000000 nt!KeBugCheckEx+0x1b
a9051aac 8054051c 00000000 c86e6396 00000000 nt!MmAccessFault+0x8e7
a9051aac bf059a90 00000000 c86e6396 00000000 nt!KiTrap0E+0xcc
WARNING: Stack unwind information not available. Following frames may be wrong.
a9051b4c bf8fdd97 86c02000 e40ca638 00000000 igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+0x66a0
e4105d00 00000000 e2b89580 00000000 00000000 win32k!EngAllocUserMem+0xff
FOLLOWUP_IP:
igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+66a0
bf059a90 f30f6f01 movdqu xmm0,xmmword ptr [ecx]
SYMBOL_STACK_INDEX: 3
SYMBOL_NAME: igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+66a0
FAILURE_BUCKET_ID: 0x50_igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+66a0
BUCKET_ID: 0x50_igxpdv32!GmmGetFctTable+66a0