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Avalanche Effect Demonstrated In Solar Cells

esocid writes "Researchers at TU Delft (Netherlands) and the FOM (Foundation for Fundamental Research on Matter) have found irrefutable proof that the so-called avalanche effect by electrons occurs in specific semiconducting crystals of nanometer dimensions. This physical effect could pave the way for cheap, high-output solar cells. Solar cells currently have relatively low output, typically 15%, and high manufacturing costs. One possible improvement could derive from a new type of solar cell made of semiconducting nanocrystals and could theoretically lead to a maximum output of 44%, with the added benefit of reducing manufacturing costs. In conventional solar cells, one photon can release precisely one electron. However, in some semiconducting nanocrystals, one photon can release two or three electrons, hence the term 'avalanche effect.' This effect was first measured by researchers at the Los Alamos National Laboratories in 2004, and since then the scientific world had raised doubts about the value of these measurements. This current research does in fact demonstrate that the avalanche effect can occur."

63 of 234 comments (clear)

  1. Wait and see by Bananatree3 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    as with all emerging technology, I am going to wait and see as to how this R & D develops into a commercial application.

    However, I'll bet the keys on my keyboard that solar is going to be a lucrative market in the near future. Heck, it already is for solar cell manufacturers.

  2. Manufacturing Energy Costs? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Manufacturing solar PV cells is usually said to cost quite a lot of energy. But how much exactly (on average)?

    How many joules are consumed from raw materials to a deliverable PV cell of a given output wattage? Of the old "about 15%" (really about 20-25% these days), and of these new proposed "avalance" PV material ones?

    I want to compare that energy cost to the cells' projected energy contribution over their lifetime, which is about 30+ years for today's PV cells. How long would the new ones last in typical service?

    --

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    make install -not war

    1. Re:Manufacturing Energy Costs? by Animats · · Score: 5, Informative

      The head of Applied Materials' solar division said in a 2007 talk at Stanford that their current production process costs about 2 years of output for a solar panel. He thinks they can get that down to 6 months of output; he said some things about improvements to the sputtering process. which is derived from IC manufacturing technology where the wafers are smaller.

      They'll probably do it. What Applied Materials does is improve semiconductor process technology. They're the world's largest maker of semiconductor fab equipment. This led them into making LCD displays, and then solar panels.

    2. Re:Manufacturing Energy Costs? by syphax · · Score: 3, Interesting


      The numbers are all over the place and constantly coming down with new technologies, but you're looking at breakeven after 1-5 years or so.

      This is pretty good (EROEI is >> 1), and will continue to get better.

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    3. Re:Manufacturing Energy Costs? by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Published on 16 Jun 2006 by Energy Bulletin. [...] This review has concluded that the likely energy payback of a typical domestic sized rooftop grid connected PV cell is approximately four years.


      A domestic rooftop grid can receive something like 400W:m^2 (averaged across weather/seasons/night) here in NYC, generating 72W:m^2 (at the more likely 18% efficient PV). My building is 7.6x21.3m, 162m^2, or 11.655KW. We have 4 apartments, which consume (as the average household in NYC) about 2KW each. So we've got 3.65KW extra, or 31.4% surplus to sell back to the grid.

      NYC has an average 25850 people per Km^2, with an average household of 2 people. A square KM of PV could generate 72MW for those people's requirement of 26MW. Even if only 1/3 of the City's area were PV, we'd power ourselves completely.

      If PV averaged 40% instead of the 18% I used in these figures, that's only 1/6 the area needed. If the City and state offered tax incentives per grid watt self-generated for 5 years (while those PVs paid back their manufacturing energy investment), most roofs would have them. Consider the extra savings from offloading from our blackout-prone Con Edison grid, and replacing blacktop roofs with something insulating, and NYC would probably show a net energy profit after less than 10 years. Which, like everything else in NYC, would be readily converted to actual monetary profit.
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      make install -not war

  3. APDs by Wilson_6500 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Avalanche photodiodes of certain semiconductor materials have been around for a while now. I believe the novel part of this research is that they're confirming other researchers' data showing that lead selenide semiconductors can exhibit electron cascade effects.

    1. Re:APDs by bperkins · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's hard to say without seeing the article in Nano-letters, but based on the diagram and a vague description, I'd guess that it works something like this:

      A high energy electron hole pair is created by a photon, which then relaxes down to a lower energy state. But, instead of emitting a phonon (heat), it creates another electron hole pair, and you end up with two. I suppose this process could repeat itself, so that many different wavelengths would all produce energy with reasonable efficiency.

      This is in all likelihood facilitated by the complex energy band structure of the (essentially) polycrystalline semiconductor.

      I'm not so sure how directly applicable all of this is. I suspect that some theorist postulated that this could happen, but it was difficult to prove experimentally. It seems to me that the hard work of actually producing an workable device hasn't been done yet.

      From what I can tell, this work is done in PbSe, which I don't think is a suitible for huge volume production.

      But I could be wrong in all this.

  4. Los Alamos by TubeSteak · · Score: 4, Informative

    The avalanche effect was first measured by researchers at the Los Alamos National Laboratories in 2004. Since then, the scientific world has raised doubts about the value of these measurements. Does the avalanche effect really exist or not? This is the Los Alamos stuff they're talking about:

    http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/05/20/1436213

    Solar Cells Get Boost
    Posted by michael on Thursday May 20 2004, @02:15PM
    from the juiced-up dept.
    Science Technology
    An anonymous reader writes "Researchers from Los Alamos National Laboratory have tapped the efficiencies of nanotechnology to double solar cells' potential energy production. The key to the method is the use of lead selenium nanocrystals which can produce 2 electrons where 1 was produced before. Other optical applications can also benefit."
    --
    [Fuck Beta]
    o0t!
  5. Someone said it before, I will now. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Somebody else said this the last time solar cells were brought up, and it is just as relevant here:

    SOMEBODY PLEASE BRING SOME ACTUAL "IMPROVEMENTS" TO MARKET!!!

    If all the "improvements" to solar cell manufacturing I have read about in recent decades became actuality, we would all have homes and cars powered solely by a 1-meter-square panel on the roof and the panels would cost $1 apiece.

    Please, either DO SOMETHING with this, or stop making predictions!

    1. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, to the ever increasing market of solar cells. They put em in calculators and on caravans and ummm.. uhh.. those remote weather sensors and, uhhh, emergency phones on the side of the highway.... oh yeah, and satellites and NASA robots. As you can see, clearly the market is massive and the competition is cut-throat.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    2. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by stagnantProse · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, you tell 'em. And while your on it ask them what's holding up my flying car? Now where did I put my phone-watch?

    3. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by Cairnarvon · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of governments give incentives for installing solar cells on your roof, and a lot of people *are* getting them installed as a result, so yes, there is a market, and a pretty big one at that. The fact that the US is lagging behind doesn't make that disappear.

    4. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by QuantumG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A subsidized market is hardly a market at all. The *fact* is that there are few manufacturers of solar cells.. and most of them are differentiated anyway, so they don't compete.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    5. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Phone watches have been available for years now (so have television watches, but not watches that do both).

      What is holding up your flying car is not the car itself, it is infrastructure. Letting everybody who could afford to fly go wherever they wanted to, uncontrolled, would be pure mayhem. Death, destruction, and injury on a massive scale. Until they get absolutely reliable tracking and automated control, there will be no commonly available "flying cars". And the technology to do that, i.e., a distributed communications and computing network, did not exist until the cellular phone network was established (and greatly improved).

      Now that we know we have the tracking and control technology, you might start seeing flying cars. But it is really no surprise that it has not happened before.

    6. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by jberryman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We need to wake up, and start the new Manhattan Project for energy; I don't think we can wait on the Free Market for this one.

    7. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by Obvius · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I remember correctly from my old physics undergraduate days, the total available solar power across the entire spectrum is only just over 1kW per square metre at the Earth's surface. It's a useful thing to bear in mind when considering the viability of solar power. even with 100% efficient solar panels, we're unlikely ever to run a house on a single small panel.

    8. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by Anonymous+Meoward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      We may not need something as drastic as a Manhattan Project. How about the Apollo program instead?

      When JFK pledged to put a man on the moon in 10 years, we did it -- even though the Cold War arguments re: national security were a bit hysterical.

      Why can't we have a leader pledge to reduce America's dependence on oil by 50% in 10 years? Sounds just as possible to me as Apollo XI would have in 1960. And it's obviously more practical.

      --
      --- The American Way of Life is not a birthright. Hell, it's not even sustainable.
    9. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by jollyreaper · · Score: 2, Funny

      We need to wake up, and start the new Manhattan Project for energy; I don't think we can wait on the Free Market for this one. ZOMG!!!! COMMUNIST!
      --
      Kwisatz Haderach
      Sell the spice to CHOAM
      This Mahdi took Shaddam's Throne
    10. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by ckedge · · Score: 2, Funny

      FAR FAR easier to stop having IDIOT reporters report on RAW FUNDAMENTAL research results as if they were going to be immediately applicable or as if they were guaranteed to be capable of going to market.

      The problem isn't research. This is exactly how research goes. You investigate 1000 things for 10-20 years, and ONE comes out the door to use in widespread industry.

      So - 1000 slashdot stories, times 10 dupes and repeats over the 10 years, times 10 because it's re-reported on all the other bloggies/forumish/etc/etc "news sources" - do you see where this is going? If reporters report this basic raw fundamental research like this, you MUST read 100,000 fucking slashdot style "stories" over 20 years before a single one gets commercialized.

      We need a category called "basic/fundamental research", to which stories are assigned by people with brains, which then we can all exclude from our views. :)

    11. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by Ioldanach · · Score: 2, Informative
      The south facing roof of a 35'x40' house (1400 square feet per floor) with a 7:12 slope is roughly 800 square feet, or about 76 square meters.

      An example of a currently available solar panel intended for roofing application is 136 watts, and about 30 would fit on that sample roof, for a total possible 4,080 watts at any given point. Where I am, I can expect an average of 4.5 hours of full production per day, or 18 kwh/day, or 540 kwh/month. That's possible, but would require avoiding high load items like electric cooking, dryers, heating, and cooling. Oh, and the total cost would be $775*30 or $23k, plus installation, charge controller, inverter and storage (batteries).

      A much more efficient solar panel, not designed to be applied directly to the roof but which would require a frame mounted on the roof and fit in a 7x7 grid, or 49 panels, could generate 9,800 watts max, or 44kwh/day, or 1,323kwh/month. That's a much more useful number, and might even handle an electric dryer, cooktop, and cooling. Still doubt it could handle heating (excepting heat pump or geothermal). And it would cost $53,900, plus installation, charge controller, inverter, and storage. Amortized over 20 years of service, that's $225/month, which is probably cheaper than your electric bill. Though if you had to take a loan, it would cost $414/month for those 20 years, which is probably more than today's electric bill for that amount of power.

      And none of that includes the cost of storage and storage maintenance, which is currently usually battery power.

      Both the cost of the panels and the cost of the storage need to come down for the solution to be viable for the average person.

    12. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Still doubt it could handle heating (excepting heat pump or geothermal).

      Don't forget _solar_ heating. That way, you can squeeze a bit more efficiency out of the space on your roof, plus it can be used to cool the solar cells, which improves their efficiency also.

    13. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by pedestrian+crossing · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The subsidies are a temporary measure that serve to kick-start the build-out of the infrastructure to support a new market in the face of opposing forces, such as cheap coal or subsidized nuclear.

      IMHO, "free" markets are not always the most efficient way to achieve change, especially when there is a large capital barrier to entry.

      --
      A house divided against itself cannot stand.
    14. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by mhall119 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why can't we have a leader pledge to reduce America's dependence on oil by 50% in 10 years? Sounds just as possible to me as Apollo XI would have in 1960. And it's obviously more practical. It's significantly harder if you go and think it through. The Apollo project required the efforts of maybe several thousand people, where as reducing consumption of oil will require the efforts of millions of Americans. The Apollo project required the construction of several facilities and large infrastructure in only a handful of locations, where as reducing fossil fuel use will require a nationwide architecture upgrade, and at least hundreds of large facilities.

      If the Apollo program were at the scale required for reducing oil consumption, we'd have colonized most of the moon by now.
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      http://www.mhall119.com
    15. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by dpilot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It doesn't require effort from millions of Americans.

      All you have to do is make more economical energy generally available. It's still a project with participation in the thousands or tens of thousands. Once a way to save money is readily available, the millions will do so.

      The hard part is when the way to save money is available, but not readily. In other words, when it's available, but you have to make substantial changes or investments in order to realize it. For instance, imagine photovoltaic panels with a 10 year payback vs either a 1 or 2 year payback, or some sort of "encouragement legislation" in place that turned the 10 year payback into a 1 or 2 year payback.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    16. Re:Someone said it before, I will now. by MrSteve007 · · Score: 2, Informative

      The *fact* is that there are few manufacturers of solar cells.. and most of them are differentiated anyway, so they don't compete.
      That right there should be enough to show that you know next to nothing to what you're talking about. Here's a non-exhaustive list of just the USA's commercial solar panel manufacturers:


      Suniva, GreenBrilliance, Signet Solar, Advent Solar, Innovalight, SunPower, Miasolé, DayStar Technologies, ASE Americas, Inc., Kyocera Solar, Atlantis Energy Inc., EPV Solar, Crystal Systems Energy Conversion Devices, Evergreen Solar, Powerlight, PowerFilm, Silicon Valley Solar (SV Solar), SunWize, TerraSolar, Inc., United Solar Systems Corp. (UniSolar), Solaicx, Alps Technology, OptiSolar, ICP Solar, Day4Energy.

      Some of the larger ones worldwide include Shell Solar, BP Solar, Sharp Solar, and Sunpower. The US based Sunpower Corporation had an annual revenue of over 3/4 of a billion dollars in 2007, and profits of 147 million dollars. Not exactly chump change.

  6. Thermaldynamics? by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Without violating thermaldynamic laws, I wonder how much electricity output this will add. I don't think it would double the current flow with 2-3 electrons popping out for each photon that strikes the array, but I know this should add a significant amount of efficiency.

    I just hope all these advances, especially ones that make solar cells cheaper to manufacture go into production. There are huge chunks of the world that are lifeless desert, and would be perfect for large solar and wind arrays, assuming one could find a way to transport the generated electricity to cities without too much current loss. Perhaps some chemical reaction that pulls carbon from the air directly to make ethane, then another reaction that converts the ethane to ethanol to be piped to places that can burn the ethanol for electricity. Yes, the chemical reactions to pull carbon from the air, and get it into ethanol are wasteful, but for very long distance transfer of energy (100-200+ miles), it would be less wasteful to do that, than to use standard power transmission lines. Even though the ethanol electricity generating plants would be adding carbon into the air, it would be carbon neutral due to the carbon being extracted at the solar/wind site.

    1. Re:Thermaldynamics? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I frequently try to break the laws of thermaldynamics. Especially ones involving Intropy and the Carnal Cycle.

    2. Re:Thermaldynamics? by Yetihehe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Perhaps some chemical reaction that pulls carbon from the air directly to make ethane, then another reaction that converts the ethane to ethanol to be piped to places that can burn the ethanol for electricity.
      Would methane be ok? If so, it is already done with CO2 and sunlight.
      --
      Extreme Programming - Redundant Array of Inexpensive Developers
    3. Re:Thermaldynamics? by mlts · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Methane works, but ethane is a lot easier on metal compounds (far less corrosive) and safer in general (although its still highly flammible). Drink ethanol (assuming not denatured), one gets drunk (or dies from alcohol poisoning). Drink methanol, and the optic nerve gets permanently polymerized by the by-products such as formic acid, which renders a person permanently blind.

  7. Developing nations by William+Robinson · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is great news, especially for developing nations whose energy demands are on rising trend. Countries like Indonesia, India and other middle east countries, where sun light is available in abundance, will benefit most.

  8. Let's be realistic by actionbastard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether they're hairy, nanotube, or amorphous, cheap, efficient solar cells are always going to be thirty years away as long as there is 'cheap' oil around.

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    Sig this!
    1. Re:Let's be realistic by Chuck+Chunder · · Score: 5, Funny

      Since next year!

      --
      Boffoonery - downloadable Comedy Benefit for Bletchley Park
    2. Re:Let's be realistic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Since when is $135/barrel "cheap"? @ $135/barrel, people are still wasting energy left and right. So it is still cheap.
  9. Sunlight is better used for heating by flyingfsck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Using sunlight for electricity is not particularly attractive, but for the neat 'no moving parts' aspect. It is far better to use solar power for light, water and space heating - those remarkable innovations called windows and skylights for example.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Sunlight is better used for heating by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Man, let me tell you about skylights. I have a skylight, and I thought it was cool. Here's how it works: I get free light all day long, except at night when there isn't enough light coming in through the window.

      I get free heating all summer long, but in the winter it's too cloudy to make a difference. Yeah, skylights sound good and all, but give me a solar panel over that any day.

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      Qxe4
    2. Re:Sunlight is better used for heating by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Using sunlight for electricity is not particularly attractive, but for the neat 'no moving parts' aspect. It is far better to use solar power for light, water and space heating - those remarkable innovations called windows and skylights for example. Tell that to the entire African Continent which has an abundance of sun & empty space, but a deficit of fresh water, power & air conditioning.

      I look forward to a future with solar powered desalination plants.
      It's a much brighter outlook than continent wide water wars forcefully giving everyone a skylight.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Sunlight is better used for heating by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Water heating - sure! Light - sure. But heating? There's not enough angle when the sun strikes the earth in the wintertime, that's why it's cold - the energy is absorbed by the atmosphere.

      Erm. Some of my colleagues heat their (superinsulated) houses with solar, with a small electric auxiliary heater. This year, they didn't have to use the auxiliary heater from late January on.

      So, sure, you may not be able to heat your house with solar all the time, and in all latitudes, but you can use it to significantly cut your usage of other forms of power for heating.

  10. Penny wise, pound foolish by hyades1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We seem to cavil about a few million dollars, or even a few hundred million, being spent to jump start emerging energy technology, but we have no problem spending billions on oil industry subsidies.

    We need to acknowledge that any new tech investment involves high risk. Success brings high rewards. We accept exactly this reasoning when oil executives tell us that oil exploration is expensive and risky, and therefore requires continuing subsidies even when record profits are rolling in. A few million spent on alt energy research that tanks, however, is usually reported as a "this is what happens when you listen to the tree huggers" story.

    An attitude adjustment as 'way overdue, and a rediscovery of our spirit of adventure and innovation. Perhaps putting some money into finding out whether this kind of solar cell works and can be mass produced would be a place to start.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    1. Re:Penny wise, pound foolish by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Informative
      We seem to cavil about a few million dollars, or even a few hundred million, being spent to jump start emerging energy technology, but we have no problem spending billions on oil industry subsidies.

      Maybe because most alternative energy sources are big money losers? Take a look at page 16 of this report for the actual numbers about subsidies...

      I predict once you can start to get alternative energy sources like solar and wind down an order of magnitude or so in terms of cost you'll see things turn around. However, for now they're getting somewhere around 100X the subsidy per Megawatt-hour that "Big Oil" gets.

      An improvement from 15% to 40% simply isn't enough - natural gas and oil get around $0.25 per MWhr, while solar and wind get 100 times that amount per MWhr. And remember, those nasty "Big Oil" companies also pay over $3 in direct federal taxes for every $1 in profit. Over $200 billion flows into the Federal government every year in terms of direct taxes and fees (that's not including the taxes you're paying on consumption of their products).

      Right now, and for the last 20 years, wind and solar have been huge money-losers, and only exists BECAUSE of the massive subsidies. If we subsidized wind or solar at a level to get useful output levels, we'd spend literally trillions more per year.

      And then there's that whole baseload thing...

      --
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    2. Re:Penny wise, pound foolish by dmgxmichael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The problem isn't oil - it's the abuse of it. Like an adict we've allowed oil to change the entire structure of our nation and our society. When the oil is gone this structure will not be sustainable.

      It won't be armageddon. People will simply move back into the cities. The suburbs will become ghettos just as the inner cities are now and then they will die out. By the end of the century New York, Chicago and the other large cities of the US will contract back into the boundaries they had in the year 1900 before the oil infection took hold. It will only occur when people have no other choice - but now that we are beyond Heubert's peak that day is fast approaching.

      Another sign of this is that even as the housing market overall is in crisis real estate in the inner cities has actually increased in value. Part of this is the lessors of such properties are usually corporations or affluent individuals, the other part is that the price of oil's rise creates a condensation pressure on cities that is only beginning.

    3. Re:Penny wise, pound foolish by hyades1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Your overlook many of the less obvious subsidies. For example, the Army Corps of Engineers routinely dredges canals used by the oil industry at taxpayer expense. The explanation is that they're staying in training. Canals that don't serve oil tankers, regardless of need, do not receive such treatment.

      There are many, many examples of such hidden subsidies, none of which are accounted for in your numbers. I invite you to seek them out for yourself rather than take my word for them.

      An article in Nature 445, 147 (11 January 2007) published online 10 January 2007, and "Money Down the Pipeline: Uncovering the Hidden Subsidies to the Oil Industry" by the Union of Concerned Scientists are good places to start your investigation.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    4. Re:Penny wise, pound foolish by dpilot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I generally agree with your scenario, with one exception. I expect to see some fraction of the suburbs survive with telecommuters. Similar to energy costs pushing physical workers back close to their workplace, I expect to see those costs push "telecommutable" jobs into telecommuting, and an expansion of technologies that enable telecommuting.

      The other piece of work that needs to be done behind all of this is to make the suburbs more foot-friendly. Once you don't need to drive to work, the next thing is to not have to drive, or at least not as far, to get the basics of living. I'd expect to see humongous grocery stores fade back into the neighborhood supermarkets.

      --
      The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
    5. Re:Penny wise, pound foolish by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2, Informative
      No, we haven't reached the peak of production. Please look at excess capacity over the historical record. We've never had a negative amount. Excap is a measure of the unused pumping capacity of oil producers. In the last 5 years, OPEC alone has had at least 1 MILLION barrels a day of excess capacity, on a 60 day window. We're not at the peak of pumping.

      New oil is getting more expensive, but that's because of extraction, not supply. The actual cost of pumping isn't that high, accounting for a few dollars per barrel; the cost is driven by exploration, royalties, transport, and refining. There's plenty of reserves AND pumping capacity - both are actually on the upswing. Peak oil isn't even close in terms of reserves OR pumping.

      Aside: there's one thing the US Congress could do TODAY to eliminate $1 per gallon of gas: simply eliminate Federal taxation of gasoline and the oil companies. That accounts for about $1 per gallon. ""Evil Big Oil" is lucky to make $0.10 per gallon of gas, and they have to pay $3 in taxes for every $1 in profit they make. In the mean time, the Federal government not only gets that $3, but a direct $0.182 per gallon - about double what "Evil Big Oil" makes, per gallon.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  11. Oh, ho ho ho... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    This current research does in fact demonstrate that the avalanche effect can occur. Oh boy, that's a good one.
  12. Isn't price the key? by jimmyhat3939 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I'm often confused when I see articles about how great it is to improve the efficiency of solar cells.

    To me, the big issue is not efficiency but cost per watt. Many regions of the world have plenty of the land, particularly energy guzzlers like the US. What we really need is a super-cheap way to use that land for solar generation.

    --
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    1. Re:Isn't price the key? by dakameleon · · Score: 5, Informative

      To me, the big issue is not efficiency but cost per watt. Read the bloody summary even!

      could theoretically lead to a maximum output of 44%, with the added benefit of reducing manufacturing costs So if the summary is to be believed, you're increasing output nearly threefold, and reducing cost of manufacture. The cost-per-watt ratio moves the right way on both sides.
      --
      Man who leaps off cliff jumps to conclusion.
    2. Re:Isn't price the key? by syphax · · Score: 4, Interesting


      Efficiency matters, for a few reasons, including:

      1. Indirect costs (installation labor, racks, mounts, etc.) scale with the area of the array. The area of array required for a given power output goes with the inverse of efficiency. These costs are pretty significant, so efficiency has a direct impact on installed costs.

      2. There's lots of area available for solar panels, but solar energy is pretty diffuse, so you need a lot of area anyway. If a 1% efficient system cost a dime per watt installed, great, but you'd have to cover huge areas to generate significant amounts of electricity. There are practical limits. Even at 10-20% efficiency, you're still looking at large areas to generate a meaningful amount of juice.

      --
      Simple Unexpected Concrete Credible Emotional Stories
    3. Re:Isn't price the key? by somersault · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, the company I work for is building a 1MW tidal turbine that is around 25 metres tall, not sure exactly how large the vent is, but to me that says that solar energy is pretty diffuse compared to the tides. Sunlight isn't that predictable during the day either unless you can get rid of all the clouds?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    4. Re:Isn't price the key? by Bananatree3 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Where can I sign up? Sounds like good job.

      Tidal/geothermal power are much more constant and predictable sources than solar or wind. However, I think all of these renewable technologies are each a piece of the overall energy puzzle. Solar, Wind, Tidal, Geothermal...they've all got strengths and individual industries working for them. The current model of a dominant source is fading away into a more diversified energy market. "Never put all your eggs in one basket", as they say.

    5. Re:Isn't price the key? by somersault · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep, here in Scotland it can get rather cloudy. In fact it's definitely more often cloudy than not.

      Wasn't trying to slag off solar power btw, just pointing out how 1kW per square metre is pretty diffuse at least by tidal standards, and probably by wind standards too. I think all forms of renewable energy are worth considering though, and things like solar and wind power tend to complement each other quite well, as when it's dark and stormy, it will probably also be quite windy.

      Do you get many tornadoes or sandstorms or anything like that in Arizona (guessing that's what AZ is :p )?

      --
      which is totally what she said
  13. Re:Or great! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Funny

    Solar cells only work outside though.

    You'd have to use a thick black raincoat, a wide brimmed hat and sunglasses to protect yourself from the ultraviolent radiation though. And cover up any exposed spots with SPF 10000 suncream.

    Even then I'd scuttle back into the basement once the batteries had recharged.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  14. Irrefutable? Then it's NOT science! by Mathinker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no such thing as irrefutable in science. In fact, some people attempt to define science as the pursuit of knowledge which can be corroborated and refuted using the "scientific method" (to preempt a lot of comments: I said "attempt to define", because this definition rapidly becomes circular unless you are very careful, and it is not clear that defining the "scientific method" is easier than defining science itself).

    OTOH, I rather doubt that the scientists themselves claimed irrefutability here. The journalists are probably to blame.

  15. Flying Car? by camperdave · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And while your on it ask them what's holding up my flying car?

    Anti-grav units? Powerful downward facing thrusters? Wings? Rotors?

    Truth be told, there's nothing holding up your flying car except the name. It's not a flying car. It's a personal aircraft, and they come in many different sizes and shapes, from ultralights, LongEZs, and autogyros, to Beavers, Cesnas and Learjets.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  16. why come out? by someone1234 · · Score: 2, Funny

    You can order workers via the internets who tile your roof with Avalanche(TM) solar cells.

    --
    Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
  17. Re:Or great! by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Funny
    And cover up any exposed spots with SPF 10000 suncream.

    You know it also comes in a new convenient spray can!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  18. Decentralize - Decentralize - Decentralize. by dmgxmichael · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Imagine for a moment if we geeks hadn't come up with DNS but instead tried to use a small handful of machines to handle domain name resolution. The Internet would collapse rather quickly no?

    Funny then that to date our power grid is based on a centralized model. Sadly, as much as 20-30% of all power generated is lost during transmission over the grid.

    Now effective solar panels and batteries to go with them would allow us to move to a more decentralized model. Imagine whole neighborhoods creating most - though not all - of their power needs. If the panels can get to around 80% of the needs of the house then the current power plants we have can be the only ones we need for awhile.

    Or even better, instead of having massive plants with a huge footprint make use of smaller pup nuclear reactors - about the size used in a naval ship. One of those could be placed where the power substations are now and pick up the slack that the solar panels can't fulfill. They wouldn't present any real contamination danger as once their fuel was spent after 30 years or so you truck out the entire unit and refurbish (i.e. refuel) it under controlled conditions in a remote area - while in service the internals of the thing aren't opened up.

    These things also wouldn't have to make as much power as the current power stations because, by virtue of being closer to the customers they serve, they wouldn't lose as much power in the lines.

    1. Re:Decentralize - Decentralize - Decentralize. by MrKaos · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Or even better, instead of having massive plants with a huge footprint make use of smaller pup nuclear reactors - about the size used in a naval ship. One of those could be placed where the power substations are now and pick up the slack that the solar panels can't fulfill. They wouldn't present any real contamination danger as once their fuel was spent after 30 years or so you truck out the entire unit and refurbish (i.e. refuel) it under controlled conditions in a remote area - while in service the internals of the thing aren't opened up.
      Wouldn't it be better to you a more direct method of energy transfer by processing domestic waste products into energy. It's my understanding that this is already underway in London, an example of where things can be done at an urban level. Some of the things already underway is recovery of waste heat, domestic waste and other micro-generation projects at an urban level. And more proposals are underway.

      Now effective solar panels and batteries to go with them would allow us to move to a more decentralized model.
      Why can't we just go ahead and do that now? It would have the same effect as bringing not only the energy closer to the consumer but the processes, whilst reducing the pressure on existing centralised infrastructure because when you think about it, generally, to heat our homes we convert heat to motion to electricity over wires to our homes and back into heat again. If our houses already produce a surplus of heat why can't we use something like water to move that heat around on a street or urban level to generate electricity locally?

      Why don't we just use our homes to munch up our waste products and convert them to gas to run fuel cells that make electricity or process the at an urban level for gasses and pass that waste product further - for example why can't we use sewage water with a lot of nutrients to soak up carbon from our underground freeways or power stations with algae and produce bio-diesel. Given that the process would have inefficiencies, but who cares - they were waste products anyway, and after the inefficiencies you rightly point out in the grid anyway how much energy do we throw away after we have used it?

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  19. Re:Move along by Ihlosi · · Score: 2, Informative
    At least they seem to have moved on from the stupidity that was the "hydrogen economy".



    Oh yeah. There will be a hydrogen economy if/when we manage to get useful energy out of nuclear fusion. Until then, hydrogen is just a fuel with one advantage on paper and a long list of disadvantages in practice.

  20. This is far from insightful by Kupfernigk · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Do you have any idea how long it takes to commercialise a technology in volume? Obviously not.

    If you actually read up on solar cells instead of sounding off like an idiot, you would know that the cost per watt is dropping quite fast, durability has doubled in the last 5 years, that Sharp are making cells which are nearly twice as efficient as much of the competition and they are being sold as roof panels, that the recently opened German factory can sell everything it makes for many months ahead.

    Nobody has ever pretended that a 1 sq M panel would power anything large. There is only so much sunlight, and nobody has ever pretended the second law of thermodynamics would be broken. No-one has ever pretended that 1 sq M panels would cost $1 apiece; you could not make a structure to withstand wind loading that cheaply. There is a huge difference between actual forecasts of an eventual $1 per peak watt, and $1 per sq M. $1 per watt works out at about $140 per sq M for a 14% efficient panel.

    To the people who modded this insightful: if you can't tell an obvious troll from engineering reality, plase hand in your geek cards now and go play with Facebook.

    --
    From scarped cliff or quarried stone she cries "A thousand types are gone, I care for nothing, no not one."
  21. Re:Max Power by catprog · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Average of 5 hours a day = total power per square meter = 5Kw

    My house + 50% = 30kwh / day

    = 6 square meter

    30% efficiency

    Only about 20 square meters required.

    --
    My Transformation Website
    Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
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  22. Wind Energy works, just ask Denmark by soren100 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Right now, and for the last 20 years, wind and solar have been huge money-losers, and only exists BECAUSE of the massive subsidies. If we subsidized wind or solar at a level to get useful output levels, we'd spend literally trillions more per year. Nice try, troll. Countries like Denmark have had tremendous success with alternative energy sources such as wind power. Currently about 20% of the energy used in Denmark comes from wind power, and there is about a $5 billion market in exporting turbines. Currently over a third of the wind turbines used worldwide are built by Danish manufacturers such as Vestas.

    On windy days, Denmark actually generates "too much" power from wind (about 40%) so they are working on an electric car system to act as a "sink" to dump the excess energy. (currently the hydroelectric generating facilities in Norway and Sweden are used to smooth out the changes in energy production from wind)

    The wind power project has been such a success that Denmark is currently planning to double its offshore wind farms, after studies showed that it would not harm the environment. The current goal is to increase wind power to 30% of total output by 2025.

    1. Re:Wind Energy works, just ask Denmark by An+Onerous+Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You could also have included the next sentence in the article: "But this year, reckons Rune Moesgaard of the Danish Wind Industry Association, wind power will actually save consumers money for the first time, as the benefits resulting from lower power prices outweigh the falling cost of the subsidy."

      Then again, quoting someone named Rune Moesgaard would have made it hard to take you seriously. So I understand.

      --

      You want the truthiness? You can't handle the truthiness!

  23. Re:but snowballs... by marcosdumay · · Score: 2, Informative

    I am surprised nobody asked that before, but the answer is surprisingly simple. The photons obviously have enough energy do move several electrons, but the photovoltaic cell (junction) is a tiny laywer over some opaque substrate (normaly silicon). So you only have one chance of absorbing those photons.

    There are some manufacturing processes that could create one junction over another, but those processes are very expensive and the material isn't completely transparent. Probably because of this (I don't know about all the problems) people are unable to stack more than 2 junctions.

    So, making a photon displace several electrons at a time seems to be the best alternative. People are doing that with quantum dots for a time now, but quantum dots are very unstable. Now those researches were able to create the same effect using a well designed crystal. That is a big step foward.