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A Home Lab/Shop For Kids?
sharp-bang writes "When I was growing up, my Dad let my brother and I have the run of his wood shop, and kept up a steady stream of Lego kits, Estes model rockets, chemistry sets, Heathkit projects, and other fun science stuff from the Edmund Scientific catalog, and the rest was history. I'd like to give my kids that kind of experience. If your kids were interested in science, computers, robots, and building stuff, how would you build and outfit a lab/shop for them (and you) to play in?"
...a computer running Linux to experiment on.
-Nemo me impune lacessit-
As the coach of a FIRST FTC (FIRST Tech Challenge - for high school kids) team I can say that FIRST is a FANTASTIC way to help your kids "Geek Out". As for building out a lab, that's the beauty of FTC. You don't need the big equipment (or money) that you do for FRC. Just some hand tools, maybe a drill and some room to design, build program and test. A large room, 15x15 is more than enough. For the 2008-2009 season FIRST is going to a new kit. Total expected cost should be about $1k.
For younger kids FIRST Lego robotics is the way to go.
Either way it's great to see the kids get involved, geek out in a social way and have lots of fun.
I highly recommend it.
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breadboards, chucks of wires, gears, any old bits of junk and spend time *together* deciding what improbable circuit on the internet you will build
If anything this will teach them that just 'cause its in "print" in aint 100%...
At best it might just get them modifying other peoples circuits changing bits of code etc...
Gever Tulley: 5 dangerous things you should let your kids do
Check out the NXT Step blog. Definitely the best tinkering toy ever created, all kinds of crazy stuff you can do. Full disclosure, my mom is one of the contributors there. She went from reading the blog to help her husband help their son, as she had time on her hands, to designing robots and even writing her own book. (It is very surreal to see your mother with no engineering education or experience get published by O'Reilly for a book on building robots...awesome, but surreal, I'd be proud of her if I had anything to do with it!)
Robots and mechanical engineering aren't really my thing, but my best friend's kid is going to to be getting a lot of Lego this Christmas.
This is a fundamental flaw in today's science fields. I see it time and time again. People become so caught up in the "high" tech. Never bothering to learn the roots of it.. don't get them a lab. Don't get them a kit. Get them a damn book. Then get some resistors, IC's, diodes, ETC. Let them learn eletronics that way. Chemistry?? Same approach. Let them learn how to do everything, I gaurentee that the kid who knows the roots of everything will forever be better then the guy can write the Java code for a robot.
So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
I doubt you can even buy the same science kits anymore.
My brother and I had hours of fun doing all sorts of "science", but it usually ended it burning or blowing up something.We probably took years off our lives hacking out great clouds of purple smoke from god knows what... but it usually involved sulpher and potasium chloride, and magnesium (gotta let the retinas get some fun too - no use ruining just your lungs.)
We did eventually develop an appreciation for goggles, ventilation and gloves.
Back then, the cops would just say "don't launch rockets in your yard anymore" and that was it.
I also remember carrying .22 rifles thru suburban San Diego, on the way to a gravel pit for plinking. Only once were we stopped by a sheriff, who admonished us to make sure those weapons were unloaded and to go home.
This was all just a couple of years before Brenda Spencer of "I Don't Like Mondays" fame. Talk about ruining it for the rest of us.
I think we even had some Jarts.
If we did that now, we'd be surrounded by SWAT and branded terrorists. Same stuff, different perceptions.
Oh yeah, Get off my lawn!
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I had a set of those as a kid. I seem to remember it being a lot of fun. The problem was that I only had a small set, and it was quite limited what I could do with it. I find that to be the biggest problem with any of these construction toys. They get really expensive. I was just at Toys 'R us this weekend, looking at legos for the kids, and it was $20 for a (roughly) 10 inch x 10 inch flat floor-type piece. I think that's kind of the reason I got into computers. Once you had the initial computer (which was expensive at the time), you had everything you needed.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Tough to tell if that will work or not. Sometimes kids avoid what their parents are passionate about. I know this definitely happened with music.
My daughter liked K'Nex and Lego, so I bought Mindstorms and she loved it. However, I let her work on it herself and only jumped in when she needed help. This year she designed a robot for a competition and asked for some help. I own a hardware store and I'm pretty handy with tools and building "stuff" and we actually put together a cool robot. Came in sixth out of ten, but she did most of the design and testing with me helping with the construction (especially the cutting and drilling).
"We make our world significant by the courage of our questions and by the depth of our answers." Carl Sagan
They were both dead by the time I was three in 1949, but between them they left a few boxes of electronics parts, a Hallicrafters shortwave receiver and a nice pair of WW2 headphones. My dad was a radio operator in the Air Corps who opened a radio repair shop after the war, but passed away from cancer almost before getting it started. My grandfather was a tinkerer in his spare time with a variety of interests.
By the time I was ten, I was listening to the shortwave radio and learning about ham radio by reading about it. The librarian noticed that I was checking out books about radio and introduced me to her brother, who was a ham. I passed my first FCC test the next year and have now been a ham 50 years. Because of this early influence, I also pursued an electrical engineering career that has been very good to me.
My point is that it only takes a nudge to see where interests lie. I was very lucky that my family went with the flow and encouraged me. The times are different now, but the principle applies.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
the only reason cars arent 100% robot made is because in some steps humans are cheaper than building more robots. And that just refers to assembly, pretty much all the fabrication has no humans involved. Though so you know people wouldnt do any milling in most places... They run a laser across all products to check for deformity... if there is any they just get rejected and recycled. So no humans involved there. And to be honest you should be able to email cadcam designs and get the product back.... i worked in a place that milled wood products and you could put your own designs in after hours so long as they matched the capabilities of the machine.... and boss didnt catch you.
Yep, sounds a lot like my childhood!
:P
Need not dive in to the expensive airplanes right away... I built a rubber-band powered, balsa wood and tissue paper Spitfire (~$20 + ~$40 of basic wood tools, baseboards, and paints) and then a 2 channel R/C glider (~$60 + ~$100 for the radio) as practice for the 4 channel gas powered trainer (~$100 kit, ~$100 engine, and shared the same radio as the glider). It was very educational, gave me a lot of time to work on my woodworking skills, and was quite motivational and therapeutic (I'd often start working on them in the mornings before school, so the glue could set during the day, and it was quite relaxing to spend time sanding and filing late into the evening).
Actually spent much more time working on the cheap rubber band airplane, since it used more old-fashioned but cheaper construction methods.
I eventually made it through an aerospace program at an ivy league school. My grades were quite threatened by my side hobby of playing with computers. The irony is that my entire professional career has revolved around doing reasonably fun stuff with Linux & Windows on pretty nice computer hardware, and I pretty much only get to play with aviation things for fun on the side. As a minor consolation, at least I'm doing computer stuff for an aerospace company.
I agree that it can get very expensive very quickly.
I don't agree that a trainer certainly isn't much fun to fly. I had a Worldstar 40 ARF. Large plane, very stable. Been in the hobby for a couple of years and only just recently crashed it for the first time - unfortunately a total loss of the airframe. (Crashed doing inverted spins, almost recovered but stalled coming out and fell right back into a spin). I was definitely pushing the limits with that plane, but basic IMAC was certainly doable, and it was a lot of fun to fly. I've been busy building planes since (I got given the Worldstar second hand by my wife's family who've been into it for years. I had to learn to build after learning to fly).
I loved that Worldstar, even though in some ways I'd outgrown it. I'm in the middle of building another one anyway. The one I had was modified with better control rods so working out how to do that properly has slowed me down a bit since I refuse to put in balsa rods. I've completed 3 other ARF aircraft in the meantime.
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Too bad there's not a sort of MMO that lets people do this kind of stuff. It could be pretty fun.
You hit it on the head. When I was a kid no one would tell me why the vinegar made the baking soda go all foamy, so I had to find out myself (used to love the library trips when I was a kid). Oddly, I just mentioned the coke and poprocks thing to my wife, she knew *what* they did but not *why*. I think I know what my toddler is getting for his second birthday now.
"A long time a ago son, the poprocks ambushed the coke tribe at the Valley of the Overflowing Beaker, since then..."
Say bad words about my book, in cold oatmeal, or I shall sue!
well, not only because its cheaper that to get some robots for certain tasks but for some car companies the customer pays a premium to have a hand made car. Ferrari has a lot of people involved in the process of manufacturing. The honda NSX was hand made throughout its lifetime.
Balderdash!
I would: let them have the run of his wood shop, and kept up a steady stream of Lego kits, Estes model rockets, chemistry sets, Heathkit projects, and other fun science stuff from the Edmund Scientific catalog
The problem with this approach is that Lego kits are all pre-fab models these days. Model rockets are not really a city friendly hobby. Chemistry sets either don't exist, or don't have any of the really fun chemicals anymore. And Heathkit no longer makes kits.
Everything is being dumbed down. My parents bought me a 50 in one electronics kit, the kind with the springs that you clip the wires into. I was too young to understand what "forward biasing the collector-base junction of the transistor" meant in the section that explained how the circuit worked. Years later I acquired a 200 in one kit. Unfortunately, they had already dumbed down the instruction manual by removing the circuit explanation. I wish I could find the manual for my old 50 in one, because I'd love to learn how these circuits work.
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I wished I'd learned how to solder, put together circuits, weld, use machinery, etc. as a kid. Those things would come in handy now that I'm an undergraduate physics student (especially since I'm considering an engineering degree as well) It's hard to work on a reasearch project when you have no idea how to build the experimental setup you need! Not to mention that the university doesn't have the budget for us to have any part we need ordered/machined
When I was an undergraduate physics major our department had a few-weeks class in the summer on machining. We learned how to grind our own lathe tools and turn things on the lathe, how to use a milling machine to make all kinds of stuff out of aluminum, how to cut screw threads, etc. It was a blast, and when I went on to grad school I made all kinds of parts for the experiment I worked on in the shop. If your department has a machine shop you should ask if they have a class like this, it's pretty fun.
...wearing a skin-tight topless leather jumpsuit, with cutaway buttocks and transparent crotch panel.
You don't need fancy explosives to have fun. Plenty of stuff that will keep you off the list too.
.308 to release all the propane at once.
1) Starter Fluid. It's designed to burn. No extra hair setting crap. Tossed directly into a fire is quite entertaining as well. I think I broke a height my model rockets didn't even break. Remember kids. When it comes to compressed cans, Bottoms Up. Otherwise the lid just melts and shoots out. Different effect but not as cool.
2) Fire crackers. Sure in small doses they're "cool". But if you spend an hour un wrapping them and setting them in a drain pipe arranged in packs and then use a roll of paper towels + lighter fluid as a wick it's pretty entertaining.
Entertaining enough for Campus Security to come over and ask "What was that, no, really. You're not in trouble. That was awesome?"
3) Propane Tanks. No video (yet) but a 35 lb propane tank on a fire sounds like a jet taking off when the pressure reliefs are hit. Lights the area up like daylight and looks awesome. Next up is a
While that is probably good advice, the one thing that I would advise is the one thing that got me on the track that I'm still on some 35+ years later. There is nothing so fascinating to young boys IMO, than blowing stuff up and on the more docile side, taking things apart. Even if the taking apart is destructive, it is often critically educational. Once you build a flame thrower, the next step is to burn something.
Once you take a lawnmower apart, the next step is to build something, errr, put it back together with some new parts, and cleaning of some old parts. The same can be said for VCRs and old cake mixers. If you can take it apart without explosives, you can learn from it.
The world, it seems, is just one giant erector set with some pretty cool pieces.
Read some Heinlein. He has a theory about how a man should know enough about everything to do at least a half decent job. Not many people will pay for a broken model airplane, but they make a great way for young kids to learn how the various parts of an airplane work, then you can move on to that $500 christmas present if he wants to fly.
In summary, I'd have to say that bringing in new 'junk' every now and then to play with and examine would be healthy. As for the one that did it for me? I cut every part out of a 1967-ish color console television, then stared at the box and wondered for days how in the hell that box of stupid parts ever made a picture? Finding out took quite awhile but then I started off at the age of 9.
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In Europe there are some great bench-top and hand-held tools available from Proxxon. In North America Sherline tools are a little more expensive. Alternatives include: MicroMark and Mini-Mate tools (the Mini-Mate is especially designed for hobbyists and older kids. We've got one.
Be prepared to be disappointed. If you have to wait another few years for your son then you will most likely find that each and every one of those kits will be declared "Verboten" because they "aide the terrorists"... If you learn to launch a rocket you might point it somewhere that doesn't please your government.. If you get smart about electronics you might "circumvent" the 24x7 surveillance you are under.
To Terminate, or not to Terminate, that's the question - SCSIROB
Step 1: Foster curiosity from age 1 month. Really work at it. Remember a dog on a lead can't be pushed and if you pull it it will get resentful. Some people find they need to develop patience and put up with small disapointments in order to get this right.
Step 2: Reward study because if you don't you'll end up with a child with the attention span of a gnat.
Step 3: Expose to lots of different stimulii. This is a 'horse to water' situation. With any luck they'll be drinking at the well of science, splashing in the brook of adventurous exercise and swimming in the stream of dealing with life.
You start with a concrete floor, impact-proof walls and a "No Housekeeping Allowed" sign. My buddy couldn't get something like this to work until he had flat-out banned his wife from the garage.
In order to do that, he had to pretty much cede control of every room in the house. That included the rec room, where suddenly the bar had to be spotless, lest a (female) guest lay fault-finding eyes upon water rings and make sniffy comments.
He and his sons own the garage, and it is nerd heaven.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
I understand your quest :) I have a 6 year old boy and a 4 year old girl and these are things which I have in fact already been working on since... before they were born. When I found out my wife was pregnant, I started building this type of educational environment. Unfortunately, here in Oslo Norway, it's hard for an American to track all those good things down, especially the Estes model rockets (which I did manage after a long time).
Throughout my house, you're likely to encounter the biggest classic erector sets (at least that's what it said on the box).
We have at last count over 25,000 lego bricks because we don't reuse, be just buy more to build new things.
We have Capsula, a large selection of small tools, bits of wood, glues, etc... for constructing small things.
We also, so far as I know have the only functional model rocket "lab" in town. Since rocket engines cost me about $20 each here in Norway, I've taken to shipping them via surface mail (REALLY SLOW) through hazmat shipping lines which actually costs me a bundle, but cuts the cost to about $5 an engine. We buy 4-5 rockets each time we're in America and spread out the task of building them.
We also have robotic components which I tend to either track down through online catalogs or design in solid works and have a local school produce (they make me buy one per student in the class, but only charge for materials).
I also keep a work bench with soldering equipment and a selection of about 2500 different electronic components, including breadboards and such.
For a chemistry set, I've been lucky, my father-in-law was a chemist (old style pharmucist) for nearly 50 years. He donated a tremendous collection of glassware, microscopes and even some controlled chemicals (his license is still valid). For a bunsen burner, I rigged one up, but it appears to function well enough.
I have just begun planning the biology and botony "lab" but since this is not my area of expertise, we're dependant on kits from educational suppliers. If it weren't for wikipedia and a subscription to britanica (it's has a fabulous children's version) I'd be lost in these areas since I don't like leaving questions unanswered for the children.
At the local technical museum, there's a huge selection of science kits, so I tend to purchase one or two each time I'm there. Too bad it's going a little too mainstream now and is carrying $5 crap items which are more likely to sell and less higher end educational components.
I hope the description of my lab helps you to plan yours since I believe that thus-far mine has been extremely sucessful in spurring scientific interest in my children.
Oh.. P.S. don't forget computers, and don't be cheap. I found that providing each child with a relatively high end computer makes them more interested in using them and asking questions about them. Building a computer with a 4-year old was a blast since I let him do most of the work.
Start out with the simple PCV, Hairspray, BBQ ignition. Engineer smaller, bigger, longer, shorter versions. Try new fuels like propane or lighter fluid, and learn about air/fuel ratios.
Or go the compressed air route. PVC seals well, but you can move to metal pipes and soldier them together. Use mechanical valves opened by hand, or electronic actuators (lawn sprinkler valves work good).
Try different materials as the projectile. Potatoes, apples, eggs (usually hard boiled, but raw are fun if you do it right), or melt down plastic pop bottles in a toaster over and mold your own slugs (use it outside, because you'll eventually need to learn what temp is too hot and burns the plastic at.)
The best potato gun launch I've see was conducted by my old HS chemistry teacher. We wrapped a chunk of sodium in aluminum foil, loaded it into hollowed out potato, and launched it into the swamp behind the high school. Sodium + Pond = cool. It was his last year teaching there, so with retirement 2 weeks away he let us get away with a lot of cool stuff.