Slashdot Mirror


Toshiba Going After Blu-ray?

Swifty Nifty has an adventure submitted a link to a story about Toshiba's new High Def Disc Format. No, I'm not kidding — apparently Blu-ray has a new contender. This seems to be intended as a DVD backwards-compatible format, but there's not a lot of detail.

14 of 532 comments (clear)

  1. What Happened When HD-DVD Gave Up by ergo98 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    There were some pretty passionate debates on here, however many of the Blu-ray supporters cheered on the demise of HD-DVD, surmising that it would accelerate acceptance, reduce prices, simplify things, allow retailers to focus.

    Here's what happened since HD-DVD caved in-

    • Blu-ray players have gotten more expensive. In some cases, a lot more expensive
    • Blu-ray sales, paradoxically, have collapsed
    • High definition media gets almost no attention
    • Retailers that used to push both Blu-ray and HD-DVD now push....nothing. I find it hard even finding a single Blu-ray player for sale.


    Just thought it worthwhile to take a moment to point out how things actually turned out. It's pretty remarkable, really, but even Blu-ray did better when it had an opponent to fight. After the battle, most just hung up their cares and said "Meh...upscaled DVD is fine".
    1. Re:What Happened When HD-DVD Gave Up by SithGod · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While there is no doubt that some of those factors, notably the price, can be chalked up to the decrease of competition, I would say that the new 2.0 Blu-Ray standard is playing a significant role is the lack of players that you're seeing. Most companies don't want to release a player that will be obsolete within a matter of months. The complaints from people about "their player not working like it should" alone should be enough.

      --
      Don't you hate pants?
    2. Re:What Happened When HD-DVD Gave Up by ergo98 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The PS3 remains the most popular Blu-Ray player by far and sales appear to be accelerating. Blu-Ray's win appears to be what vaulted the PS3 to second place and relegated the XBox360 to third in monthly sales.

      No doubt about that -- it is a huge advantage of the PS3. I'm now seeing new XBox 360s for sale sub-$260 (while the PS3 is at the same $399 that it's been at for well over a year), so while Microsoft claimed it wouldn't impact them when HD-DVD failed, I suspect it's going to cost them dearly as they need to try to get sales through price cuts.
    3. Re:What Happened When HD-DVD Gave Up by ergo98 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Unbelieveable bull.

      Here's what happened after Blu-ray won.

      Player prices have dropped? Maybe your stronger Euro is misleading you, but there have been no price drops. Quite the opposite. Blu-ray players used to be freebies with sets, and you'd get a bunch of discs, and there were endless promotions and price cuts. Last I can see, there's zero promotions, and prices average over $400.

      BluRay disc sales have multiplied in the past 6 first months of this year

      I Am Legend almost singlehandedly accounted for a spike in the minuscule sales totals for Blu-ray.
    4. Re:What Happened When HD-DVD Gave Up by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What is essentially a "movie appliance" should not need to be firmware-upgraded to play a disc. It is just STUPID.

      you do realize, though, that EVERY time you watch a movie - that 1 minute delay of 'loading the disc' is really loading and RUNNING executable code, checking for 'bad hardware' that should be REVOKED (ie, your hardware that some corp. entity NOW thinks should be disabled, perhaps even permanently). then finally, once its done being 'undercover cop' it then lets you view the movie. want to see the movie again? same 'cop behavior' all over again.

      I don't own BD and never will. I was at best buy recently and I ejected and reinserted a BD disc. it took nearly a minute to load. I LAUGHED MY ASS OFF. people accept this? really??

      it turns out that any BD drive connected to your network or computer is now the least secure thing ON your network. its all black box and you can't know what damage it might WANT to do to some of your hardware. completely untrusted and there's no 'permit/allow' ability if you are even the system owner - you MUST accept whatever damage the BD software wants to do to your system.

      and all that just to watch a simple movie. it should be a crime, how they conned innocent people into accepting this 'virus-in-a-box' called BD.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  2. Bittorrent Before Blue-Ray! by N8F8 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's as simple as that. I'll steal content via Bittorrent before I give a penny to Sony. I have a pretty huge DVD collection and was starting to buy HD-DVD. But I REFUSE to pay Sony for their anti-competitive practices and consumer-unfriendly products.

    --
    "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
  3. This was gonna happen by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I didn't expect Toshiba to be the company to announce the next-next generation format (especially this soon), there are certainly other formats in the wings. The future formats are based on 'holographic memory', with the 'Holographic Versatile Disc (HVD) being one of them. The HVD promises 3.9 TB of storage, but with a price tag of around $15000 for a drive and $180 for a disk, this puts it clearly in range of companies with the needs and the money.

    Myself I am just sitting waiting for affordable rewritable versions (this include Blu-Ray) to become available for PCs.

    --
    Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  4. Re:maybe not by evilviper · · Score: 5, Interesting

    China starts lots of projects like this. They serve only to demonstrate to the world how advanced China is, and how they don't need the rest of the world. They spend tons of money to develop far inferior (but domestically developed!) alternatives to easily and cheaply available western technology. It never goes anywhere.

    Their EVD (IIRC) format comes to mind. It was based on incompatible use of DVD tech to give a trivial capacity boost, and the (terribly poor performing yet lower quality than MPEG-2) AVS video codec it used. Considering that JPEG is ancient and patent-free tech, and independently re-implementing inter-frame compression is so simple I could do a halfway decent job of it myself in a week, I'm stunned by how little China has achieved despite how much money they have spent. Large retailers in their own country defy the government mandate to carry them, because demand in nil, and the higher performance and non-standard decoding hardware required is far more expensive.

    I guess I'd better end this rant here...

    --
    Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  5. Re:Is this the same thing..? by bloodninja · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The interpolation (or however it is called) in the Enhanced Zoom plugin for Compiz almost seems like that 'enhance' technology of the movies. Try it and see how clear 480x640 pictures can be when they fill up a 1680x1050 monitor. I'd really like to know how that works, and being open source, anybody who understands that stuff can.

    --
    Lock the wife and the dog in the boot of the car.
    Return one hour later.
    Who's happy to see you?
  6. Re:maybe not by cozziewozzie · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Tell that to Sony, with their long line of tech wins which failed in the market.

    You can make cheap knockoffs forever, or you can try to take initiative and do R&D. Sometimes it will work, a lot of the times, it will turn out to be rubbish, especially when you're just starting in the industry.

    So how's the Dragon PC w/ the People's Linux coming along? I don't know, but Lenovo PCs running QQ are all the rage in China. You know, QQ, that tech "win". They should have just used skype. Or purchased from Dell.
  7. Re:Hello? by terjeber · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You regular take your discs to "Circ City and Best Buy" and play them?

    Yes, I do. I do it for two reasons. None of them because I need a new Blu-Ray player. Let me explain.

    I own a HD camcorder, and I use this to shoot at birthday parties and other family events. Often people ask me about the quality of HD camcorders (not about TVs and players). They wonder if they will actually get good quality. I like shooting and editing, and to show friends and acquaintances what the result can be, I have so far this year created AVCHD disks to show them. They ask me to assist in purchasing a camcorder, and we drop in to a store and talk. That's when they see the AVCHD disk. I have also handed out some disks, but people are interestingly a little shy about asking for permission to view at Circuit City or Best Buy, even though I tell them it has never been an issue for me to get permission.

    BTW, this will change in the middle of this month since SCS is releasing their Blu-Ray authoring tool then to match my new Blu-Ray writer.

    So they let you pop in a random disc into a player to see if it works?

    I always ask nicely and I have so far not received a single negative answer. The closest I have gotten to that was a "You have to ask that other dude". This is also the experience from anyone I have chatted with in the video editing forums I frequent, so I am unsure as to why you think it impossible. Have you tried it and been denied?

    If you go back about 12 months and read some of the video editing forums like creativecow or others you will find many curious "editors" doing exactly the same thing.

    Just curious about your attitude though. Did I tear down some religious symbol you have been worshiping?

  8. MIcrosoft and Apple have it right... by lilfields · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't know why Toshiba would chase this medium, it will be dead much faster than DVD...the next medium is obviously digital downloads and as of now I'd say that Microsoft and Apple both have this market close at heart right now...between iTunes and the Live Marketplace. Once we get a larger proportion of high speed internet coverage (which will probably be a result of wireless coverage [ie Google? Verizon, AT&T]) The biggest beneficiaries of this will be Microsoft and DivX, because of their compression technologies...on the hardware side, Level 3 Communications and anyone with dark fiber will benefit. Sony and Toshiba are chasing an already doomed market...if I were Toshiba I would reevaluate my position and look towards making set-top boxes for such an adaption. If anyone wonders why Microsoft hasn't pushed Blu-Ray into their Xbox line, look no further than the Live marketplace. I'd expect in the next 5 years, HD for downloads will be as common as downloading from iTunes...Blu-Ray? More like Apple TV, TiVo or Xbox.

    To anyone who says that we still need a portable medium for market laggards (example: Grandparents)(other portable mediums will probably be flash based/iPod, Zune), I'd expect they'd still be buying DVDs, that market isn't going to die anytime soon...I doubt they will be upgrading to Blu-Ray

  9. Re:This has GOT to be a hoax! by stickyc · · Score: 3, Interesting
    First off, if you don't pay for content, then don't be outraged when that content disappears. The PC gaming industry gets worse and worse every year due to piracy. All of my favorite PC game houses went bankrupt.

    Next, how much time does it take to rip that DVD, convert it to fit on a single layer disc, burn it, label it, etc?

    Most of my DVDs I buy used from Hollywood Video or Blockbuster. They pretty much always have a 3 for $25 deal. I'm paying $8 for a movie to own it legally.

    Okay, this argument doesn't really work. When you buy used like that, guess who gets 100% of that revenue? Blockbuster and Hollywood Video. Not the publishers. As far as they're concerned, you might as well be pirating the movies. If you search around, you'll find the publishing houses (movies, music, and games) blame their losses on the used market just as much as piracy (example here).

    My time is worth far more than $8 an hour, so even if it only takes 1 hour to pirate a DVD, then it really is a huge waste.

    If it's taking you more than 5 minutes of your time, you're doing it wrong. Insert DVD, launch ripper app, click "Rip", go do whatever it is that's more "worth your time".

    I don't know many folks who actually re-burn DVD rips anymore, especially when the new consoles can play media from a USB drive or even network shares. Even if you did, if it's taking you more than 3 minutes to swap disks, fire up your burning software, start the burn, eject, and scribble a title, you're doing it wrong again. NOTE - If you're sitting there watching the ripping or burning parts, you probably actually aren't worth more than $8/hr.

  10. Re:Hello? by kesuki · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "And what, it's your belief that technology is only going to slow down from here?"

    I've heard that some people believe the price of gasoline will go up around a dollar every year because of the post peak problem. if energy prices do go up, then technology, which depends on energy, and the availability of cheap energy will slow down. it takes a lot of money to 'research' new technologies, using technology already researched is cheap. for an example, consider modern CPU pricing, multi-core designed processors have allowed cpu vendors to rely on the same basic die technology for their cores, even while following moore's law. this is why a high end quad core costs only $400 while long ago far away in the past a 'brand spanking new' 1 ghz chip cost over $1,200. designing new chips has been hit or miss, the itanium is a perfect example of how redesigning something, doesn't always create a viable product.

    the point being, if energy prices go up and up, people will have less disposable income, making technology higher and higher risk. making existing technology work better will always be cheaper and safer, than designing new technology.

    to keep energy costs lower(and thus keep technology moving at a rapid pace), there are 3 solutions i can think of, off hand.

    1. Under Sea Drilling platforms off both arctic and antarctic coasts (under sea so they don't break when the ice forms every winter) the cons are, that nobody (that i know of) has a working undersea drilling platform that is practical. you could go with a telescoping design only producing oil in summer months, or have undersea pipelines to beyond the icy region where tankers can fill up so the 'undersea platforms' can produce year round, underneath the sea.. and possibly a few ideas i haven't though of, the problem with this is it's still dependence on fossil fuels, and putting more co2 into the environment is the last thing we need to be doing.

    2. bio-fuels could start taking up the slack, this is really only feasible if large scale bio-fuel from algae is started, and so far at least one texas energy company is starting a major bio-fuel from algae product cycle. How that company does, might drastically change the face of bio-fuel as an alternative to fossil fuels, if they're successful and profitable.

    3. use less energy. it's simple, just push aside the American car safety standards, so vehicles can be lighter, and use cheaper engines, and mandate fuel efficiency. sure, a lighter car is a death trap if you hit a big truck, or a heavy car, but if all the cars on the road have to meet higher fuel economy targets (like they have to in japan and china) then they're only more dangerous when hitting old 'legacy' vehicles.

    you can easily design an ultralight car that would get well over 120 mpg(without being a hybrid) these guys did. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2007/10/loremo_lives_su.php

    i don't know how the car does for safety, in crashes. in general, concept cars that get over 120 mpg tend to be labeled as 'death traps' in a crash with conventional cars, and some use expensive technology that will never scale to the mass market.

    cars aren't the only place where we can save energy, but they are a big one, if we'd just say cars can be a lot lighter, even if they're not as safe, just to get better fuel economy. when i owned cars i owned the kind that would have been fatal in any highway collision, yet the type of car accidents i did have, were generally ones involving only me, with 3 exceptions (1 was completely not my fault) and the 3 i did have were at city speeds, not highway.

    the point is we could stop the rise in gasoline prices, just by pushing fuel economy.