Windows XP Lives, Thanks to Linux

CWmike writes "Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols puts his thumb on what really happened to spur Microsoft's change of mind on sparing Windows XP: The smashing success of Asus and others' Linux-powered UMPCs and mini-notebooks caught Microsoft completely by surprise. It turned out people wanted inexpensive, hard-working Linux laptops rather than overpriced, underpowered Vista PCs. If anyone thought this was a flash in the pan, that Asus just hit it lucky once, they haven't been paying attention. Intel is putting big bucks into its Atom family of processors, which have been designed for UMPCs, or as Intel would have it, MIDs. Intel has encouraged both the computer makers and the Linux companies in its Moblin initiative to run desktop Linux. The Linux companies have picked up on this. Canonical, Ubuntu's dad company, has come up with an UMPC-specific version of Ubuntu 8.04, the latest version of this popular Linux distribution, for Intel Atom UMPCs. At Computex, by my count, more than a dozen new UMPCs were announced both from vendors you've never heard of and from big name companies like Acer and Asus. You can also expect to see Dell releasing its 'mini-Inspiron' with Ubuntu by June's end."

Comments

Cool.

[AltGrendel]

I'll be checking out the new systems to see if they would make great portable multi-media systems.

Hmmm...

[Stanistani]

I wonder, with the surge in this UMPC form factor, if not only efficient OS's are favored, but perhaps new networked games with cross-platform ports (and a smaller footprint).

I scent a market opportunity for game companies to port more games to Linux...

Caught between a rock and a hard place?

[It doesn't come easy]

So Microsoft has to keep XP going to slow the adoption of Linux? Yet malware writers are now using Microsoft's patch cycle for XP at least (and can Vista be far behind?) to rapidly create exploits. And of course XP is still rife with security issues. I wonder how long XP can stay afloat with malware on one side and Linux on the other? (especially if Microsoft stops fixing XP security issues)

Re:Caught between a rock and a hard place?

[rodgster]

I haven't checked recently, but I thought MS was going to remove XP from all distribution channels June 30th, 2008.

Re:Caught between a rock and a hard place?

[Lumpy]

At least that's the press release.

Real reason? Vista sucks. Almost EVERY business I consult for ask for me to get them copies of XP for any new PC they get that has Vista on it.

Business and most people DO NOT WANT vista. That is what is keeping XP alive. MSFT refuses to admit it so they use another reason.

Re:Caught between a rock and a hard place?

[dave420]

It's very easy to keep an XP install running. Especially since SP2, now that the firewall is on by default. I've run XP for years without a firewall of its own (just a NAT denying inbound connections), and no anti-virus, and I didn't have virus problems. I'm not suggesting you're spreading some FUD, I'm merely hinting that the reality you've painted isn't reflected in some, if not many people's 'eXPerience'.

Re:Caught between a rock and a hard place?

[MightyYar]

I think that they will still sell it for these tiny PCs, since they won't run Vista. For them not to do so would mean forfeiting the market to Linux - something they are not prepared to do.

Re:Caught between a rock and a hard place?

[peragrin]

except for the low powered machines. in fact MSFT is trying to put artificial limits on these machines in terms of speed, ram, storage, etc so that they don't eat into the vista hardware.

While still claiming that XP is done with on june 30th, there are so many exceptions it won't even been funny.

I fully expect to be able to buy a full spec machine running a new copy of XP in 6 months.

EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Odder]

EEE PC already has enough horsepower to play movies and music as well as anything else. Battery life could be improved and it already is up to 7.5 hours.

Apple dominates the high end market and GNU/Linux rules the low. Soon the ends will meet and M$ will be squeezed out. Vista is a failure and it has taken M$ down with it.

The change is permenant. Vendors have revolted, M$ won't be able to come back. Good riddance.

More like a stay of execution..

[s31523]

I do not think MS is going to completely spare XP, more likely it is just delaying it's execution. As time goes on, the hardware will be caught up enough to run Vista and MS will have had time to "fine tune" it enough to make people get along with it, then they will kill XP.

Re:More like a stay of execution..

[jeiler]

Or they'll make a "Vista Lite" that will run on the lower capabilities of UMPCs.

Re:More like a stay of execution..

[s31523]

Which will be an XP box with a black marker 'X' through it and "Vista Lite" written underneath it!

Re:More like a stay of execution..

[TheNarrator]

Microsoft was expecting Vista's increased hardware requirements to align with Moore's law. The only problem was that hardware performance is not increasing as quickly as it was in the 90s. Multi-core CPUs are coming out but CPU mhz are not really going anywhere. Thus Microsoft cannot add features like they used to and expect the reduced performance to be acceptable as it once was, due to continuous hardware improvements.

Re:More like a stay of execution..

[homer_ca]

Depends which EOL date you're talking about. XP license availability was supposed to be discontinued 6/30/08, but Microsoft extended that to 1/20/09 for System Builders and probably longer than that for UMPCs. XP Home, Pro and MCE are all supported with bugfixes and security updates through 4/8/14. There's another good 6 years left in XP.

Re:More like a stay of execution..

[sayfawa]

I'd say the effects of Moore's law are still going strong and hardware is improving steadily. It's just that instead of faster chips, the hardware improvements come in the form of smaller and more efficient. So we are reaping the rewards not in faster and more powerful, but in cheaper, smaller, better battery life, etc. Of course, the result is still the same for MS; like you say, they incorrectly thought that CPUs would be faster by now.

Which makes me think of another theory as the cause for this phenomenon. People are satisfied with existing software. I think the majority of people would be ok if operating systems and major applications stayed exactly the same as they are. So as technology gets better the only thing about a computer that should change is the hardware. But since it's already good enough to run existing software, then it should just get cheaper and more reliable. I think this is what consumers expect nowadays, not the hardware treadmill of the past.

XP Home Only

[russlar]

OK, so they're extended the life of XP Home Edition until 2010 to capture more of the mini-laptop market. So? Name me one network admin who will use XP Home on an ultra-portable. These things are perfect for someone who needs a small, lightweight laptop to administer a network rack, and XP Home is practically useless for that.

The target market for XP Home has had Vista pushed on it for the past year and a half, and most of that target market probably doesn't know enough about Windows to care about XP vs. Vista.

Only extending the life of XP Pro will have any meaning.

Re:XP Home Only

[Goaway]

Name me one network admin who will use XP Home on an ultra-portable. Remind me again why anybody would care what network admins do with their ultraportables?

EEEPC

[willeyhill]

Any UMPC using SSDs is already tougher than the "toughbooks" currently in use. Just buy a EEE PC and silicone some rubber and foam onto it.

Re:EEEPC

[MightyYar]

A man "silicone augmenting" his computer... hmm, pretty soon you'll have something to make into a movie.

Re:EEEPC

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

We use them exclusively in the field, when somebody drops it or somehow breaks it (and people can get very creative about what they do) we're only out a few hundred dollars compared to the over $2,000 we used to spend on toughbooks.

Re:EEEPC

[oodaloop]

Uh, no. There are no military-grade UMPCs available. Try that EEE mod then drop from shoulder height on concrete and let me know how it works out for you. Toughbooks get dropped out the back of C130s and survive. The EEE would probabky shatter if it fell off my desk. And that's not even getting into the water, dust, shock, freezing tests.

Working in the intelligence community, having deployed to Iraq et al, and being a former Marine, I've seen a lot of the systems we use. For rough field use, there's the toughbook, and pretty much very little else. There have been some attempts at deploying a rugged PDA-type device to troops, but technical difficulties and cost, among other things, have kept them from gaining widespread use. I have seen some, uh, unconventional forces use the Sony Vaio Micro PC 280P in a padded case. For light field use, it gets the job done, but it's hardly rugged. I happen to have one myself, and I wouldn't imagine dropping it or getting it wet.

I hope as these UMPCs or MIDs become more powerful and more popular, we'll see some rugged versions designed for military use. There's so much we could use them for. It might even spur the use of Linux in DoD, godforbid.

Re:EEEPC

[compro01]

actually, a friend of mine has been working on creating a durable-ized eeepc. Current method he's trying is encasing pretty much the entire outside of the thing in about a 2" layer of modified (mixed with some kind of metallic powder to allow decent thermal qualities, as it would have to be passively cooled.) soft silicone, along with a sealed keyboard, watertight plugs for all the ports, and gasketing around the edge of the screen and keyboard interior, covered in some army surplus untearabillium-infused fabric (same fabric as the older green Canadian combat uniform pants) to protect the silicone from abrasion.

No idea how well it's going, as I haven't talked to him in a few weeks (He's currently working with the base forces for the summer, but is doing this project on his own time), but it seems like a workable idea. The eeepc is sufficiently cheap that it's almost ideal for this kind of prototyping.

media-centered

[pha7boy]

well, microsoft had been moving toward a media-centered model for years now, and vista was supposed to deliver just that - a way for users to use their computers not just for computing, but for media applications, home networking, etc. None of the UMPCs would really be able to deliver that, so microsoft never paid much attention to the issue.

XP really fills that niche for people looking for an ultra-mobile but also not willing to move to a linux OS. Which really is a much larger market then those who would gladly use linux on their mobile machine. I'd be surprised if microsoft will not fight hard to regain control of that market.

Re:media-centered

[Overzeetop]

If they are, then they are a horrible failure at it. Vista, while useful for simple tasks, is a steaming pile for anyone other than users who don't mind doing it the one way the Vista engineers envisioned and enjoy the sub-par interface included in the package. I run Vista Media Center because it has better hardware support than XP MCE (mostly due to the poor programming in XPMCE and total lack of follow-on support). Yes, it works. No, it is neither intuitive nor useful. Just scroll through The Green Button forums to find out how many usability issues there are. And what's worse, most user requests fall on deaf ears or worse - often the MS people who try to help out honestly indicate that many critical features will never be added. Vista still doesn't ship with most of the common audio and video codecs. I'd say it's for licensing reasons, but they don't even include free codecs (and with their muscle, you'd think they could get most of the for-pay decoder codecs for next to nothing).

As for networking - sure there are some positive steps, but overall it's a convoluted mess to administer as a layperson, with half a dozen different dialogs controlling networking functions, and many bits of information are still only available from the command line.

MS will still dominate because of their position with a few business apps (calendaring and contacts come to mind as must-haves), but if someone really put some time into a desktop-mobile combination with an out-of-the box virtual machine to run the few necessary MS-bound applications, MS would need to take a good hard look at operations to figure out how to prevent a serious market shift. (Okay, that might be a little bit of wishful thinking)

Re:I knew it

[russlar]

Finally this is the year of desktop linux. Didn't you say that last year?

Well... It was actually the "Not Windows" bit

[arivanov]

So far anything on the market ran either both Windose and Linux or just Windoze.

IMO what got MSFT really scared is that many of the crop of the new and cheap PCs went as far as not being bothered to be Windows compatible on release. Asus is a prime example - it could not run Windows XP as shipped without MSFT doing some work on it. Half of the UMPCs are on its heels as well.

This is not something Microsoft has ever experienced in its history since the days of DOS vs CPM - the hottest PC product on the market based on customer demand for the Christmas season to be Windows incompatible.

It is not the linux market penetration that they are worried about, it is the change of attitude in major OEMs. The entire MSFT business is based around a B&D relationship with OEMs which keeps OEMs doing exactly what MSFT wants. An OEM rebellion is what MSFT is most scared of and it will do anything and give out any candy it can to prevent it.

Re:Well... It was actually the "Not Windows" bit

[plague3106]

You're right; PC sales have historically been for faster, more capable computers. These "UMPCs" seem to be the opposite; not as powerful or capable, and so if you're shooting for your OS to run on PCs NOW and in the future, and not targeting older ones, there will be issues.

That said, MS isn't stupid, and they'll make sure SOMETHING MS runs on these.

Windows is over.

[Odder]

No one is going to spend $400 on an OS so they can run a $450 word processor. The Microsoft era is closed.

Re:Windows is over.

[boxxertrumps]

Why would that be modded flamebait?

It's true.

Re:Windows is over.

[abigor]

twitter, you work at a university (LSU). You have no idea what businesses use and what they pay for Windows and Office. You also have no idea of the number of massive deployments or the conservative nature of large corps. Going on Slashdot and making broad, ridiculous claims and insulting people who actually know what they're talking about isn't going to convince anyone.

Those new "little" CPUs aren't so little

[Animats]

Those new "little" CPUs coming out aren't so little. They're above 1GHz now, they're going into machines with 1 GB of memory, and some of them are superscalar. They even have GPUs. That's more than enough power for any reasonable portable system. Mail, web browsing, video playing, the occasional PowerPoint presentation - you don't need a quad-core 3 GHZ CPU part for that.

What you need is battery life. The next frontier may be less CPU power but a full day of operation or more between recharges. Note that phone battery life was a huge issue until it reached a day or two of moderate to heavy use. After that, it stopped being a major factor in buying decisions.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[bennomatic]

And in the mobile phone market, it seems like Google and Apple (Goople?) are playing nice with each other, which will allow iPhone to rule the high end and Android to dominate the middle-to-low-end phone market. I don't know anyone who loves Windows Mobile, but a lot of people are pretty excited about their iPhones and/or the promise of Android.

Great for linux...

[sucker_muts]

... but I'm still dissapointed that most of those laptops are promoted with XP on it anyway.

Here in Belgium I saw an ad voor an asus EEE last week, but with shiny happy 'Windows XP' logo and specification besides it.

I'm afraid too many users (and stores) over here are too lazy to try something new. It makes sense that supermarkets (the ad was from one) might try to sell XP rather than linux, so they can sell some other software that's needed.
With linux, a lot needed software is installed by default, and that does not translate in money to earn. :-(

(The day when proprietary software wil be perfect against piracy will be a day to rejoice: Empty your wallets, or stop being lazy and try something like open source for a while, it's not that bad when you only need basic stuff done!)

Re:Great for linux...

[meringuoid]

I'm afraid too many users (and stores) over here are too lazy to try something new. It makes sense that supermarkets (the ad was from one) might try to sell XP rather than linux, so they can sell some other software that's needed.

The market must be different over there. I keep an eye out for Eees wnenever I'm out shopping for kit, and I've only ever seen the Linux ones. I reasoned that it was (a) people familiar with XP on a bigger screen will think the Eee's screen small and cramped, while the custom Linux interface fits just fine, and (b) these are cheaper, and this end of the laptop market is all about price. I don't really get the point of Windows on these machines; they're not your primary workstation, nor are they in any way a gamer's box; they're portable net terminals and maybe media players.

Never bought one, because I'd heard about the bigger screen of the 900 series; the wasted space at the sides of the 700s is ugly. But then the 900s got too expensive for a cute-little-laptop impulse buy. Now I'm hanging on a little longer for the Acer Aspire One, which is about my perfect spec. Linux box, 1024x600, eight gig storage, one kilo mass, two hundred quid. Sold.

There's No Surprises

[mpapet]

Only complacent management at Microsoft.

Here's the loong tale of how this stuff happens.

This is how it works people. Smaller companies hit on a good idea all of the time. Every once in a while, the idea appeals to a very large group of consumers. Big companies just wait. Sometimes for quite a while.

All big companies, Microsoft included, have one guy running around corporate going "This UMPC thing is going to be big! We need to target it." This guy is completely ignored because there's no market data and Management pretty much ignores him because he's saying stuff like this all of the time.

Meanwhile, Asus figured out how to deliver the goods on the cheap. Microsoft's Asus rep ignored Asus's info about UMPC's because Microsoft's rep is used to waiting for corporate to deliver the pinata filled with money.

When Asus gets things rolling, Management panics because their high-priced market research has just come back with a new report saying cheap UMPC's are growing into a huge market. Some ass-kisser in Marketing is then tasked with stomping on the Linux Distro by preparing a pinata filled with money to deliver to Microsoft's Asus rep.

There's more waiting. More market research. More waiting. Presentations. Approvals. Meetings. More waiting.

Microsoft corporate delivers pinata to Asus rep. Microsoft's OS is then available as a SKU worldwide ~1-3 years after Asus's product launch.

Microsoft ain't over

[an.echte.trilingue]

Nah. Just because they were caught by surprise doesn't mean that they won't adapt. They don't even have to do anything beyond maintain XP. I am happy that Linux has been able to provide the competitive pressure to keep Microsoft on its toes, but to suggest that MS is going to keep reinforcing failure is a pipe dream. They are already on the OLPC, you can get the EEE with XP if I remember correctly, and so on. I predict that there will soon be a windows "light" based on XP or even NT, and the cycle starts all over again.

Still, it's nice to see that after 10 years or so of stagnation, the free market in software is finally healthy again and doing its job.

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[MightyYar]

A++ for the level-headed response. I would have just called him either delusional or a troll :)

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[flanksteak]

Just because they were caught by surprise doesn't mean that they won't adapt.

Exactly. Microsoft misses everything. They always have. What makes them who they are is their response. Vista is a big slip, but they have too much money to just fade away.

The question is, what will be the response to the ultra mini segment? Can Vista be downsized or does Windows Mobile come up? I see Windows Mobile coming up.

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[HigH5]

Nah. Just because they were caught by surprise doesn't mean that they won't adapt. They don't even have to do anything beyond maintain XP. I am happy that Linux has been able to provide the competitive pressure to keep Microsoft on its toes, but to suggest that MS is going to keep reinforcing failure is a pipe dream. They are already on the OLPC, you can get the EEE with XP if I remember correctly, and so on. I predict that there will soon be a windows "light" based on XP or even NT, and the cycle starts all over again. Still, it's nice to see that after 10 years or so of stagnation, the free market in software is finally healthy again and doing its job. I think they were caught off guard. Why they would then use an 8 years old and battered OS to fight this new market. Sure, it's proven, and welcomed by the users, but it still doesn't fit so well into the niche as GNU/Linux does. I believe that GNU/Linux will soon dictate the pace in the emerging OS platforms, because it's much more flexible and versatile than Windows. Sure, there's the confusion with hundreds of distros, but who would know which one will catch Microsoft off guard in the next emerging market.

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[tmcmsail]

Microsoft always misses the first bus, but they come back with a vengeance. Remember when they thought the internet was not important? Many times, they let someone else lead the way and step in later to take over the market. I loved Word Perfect, Lotus 123, d-Base, and many others, now I am stuck with a work computer with Word, Excel and Access.

Back to making money, supporting the MS systems manufactured to break and need IT pros to keep running...

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[LehiNephi]

I think you may have missed the title of the submission--Vista's too big, Mobile's too small, but XP may be about right. Personally, I still think XP's on the pudgy side, but it's the best fit out of the current microsoft OSes

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[LehiNephi]

I assume you meant to ask "why would [the manufacturers] use [XP]?" The reason is that people will see a line of mini notebooks, see one with a familiar interface, and say "I know how to use that one!" In other words, the manufacturer stands to make a lot more sales if the user thinks it's more familiar or easier to use. And considering the market penetration of Windows, that will apply to a very large potential customer base.

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[kjkeefe]

Remember when they thought the internet was not important?

Yeah, they still haven't come back from that mistake. That's a big part of the motivation to buy Yahoo. If there is one thing that Microsoft has proven they are good at, it is buying a company and diminishing its value as they try assimilate it.

Embrace, extend, extinguish...

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[amliebsch]

Excuse me, but Microsoft was clued into the "UMPC" trend back when everyone on Slashdot poo-pooed the idea. It went a slightly different direction than they imagined but they obviously saw it coming for some time now.

Re:Microsoft ain't over

[niko9]

...Vista's too big, Mobile's too small, but XP may be about right. Personally, I still think XP's on the pudgy side... Hey Goldilocks, why don't you slide on over next to me and I'll show you that XP is not the only thing around these parts that is pudgy... ;)

Re:Just keep stalling..

[Fx.Dr]

Just like with ME, I'll contiue to use XP until a sutiable replacement comes about.

Whoa, you waited for a "suitable replacement" for Millennium Edition?

Head Asplode

Re:Ubuntu's dad company?

[morgan_greywolf]

Dad company? I thought it was just a hurriedly written, apathetically edited slashdot crud. Turns out the gem was in the original presumably well written article. So the question is who did that "dad" sleep with to spawn Ubuntu?

Deb and Ian Murdoch, of course.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[dave420]

Vista is not a failure. I'm not trolling (though many will see it that way) - vista has made MS a bunch of money, and if anything, has given them a great wake-up call to shape up or ship out. It'll only be a failure if they never release another version of Windows, and don't learn from their mistakes. +5, Troll expected - slashdot, don't let me down!

MSFT investors aren't lovin it

[Anonymous Coward]

Computex was a total disaster for Microsoft. The stock is down about 4% in the last few days.

The headline

[eebra82]

Mobile: Windows XP Lives, Thanks to Linux I wouldn't say it's [..] thanks to Linux, but rather [..] due to Linux. It's fairly obvious that Microsoft wants people to use Vista rather than XP, so the fact that XP still lives is hardly something Microsoft would thank Linux for.

I also doubt that Microsoft didn't foresee this since companies like ASUS surely talk to Microsoft about their future. The only part I think they got wrong was to tout Vista as a serious operating system for ultra portables.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Actually I'm pretty pleased with my Treo 750. The ability to SSH, change providers, and easily develop software is what made the decision over an iPhone. I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just saying that there are plenty of people out there that are quite happy with Windows Mobile. That isn't to say however that I wouldn't by an Android capable phone the minute it came out.

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[TTURabble]

What?

Re:I knew it

[Archangel Michael]

He is mistaken. This is the year of the Laptop Linux!

Desktop Linux isn't scheduled for release yet. Perhaps next year.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Anonymous Coward]

Vista has made MS a bunch of money, if you count the people who bought Vista, didn't like it, and then bought XP. MS sold a bunch of site licenses to businesses which allow them to install XP over the Vista that their new computers came with.

This is not sustainable growth, and their customers are massively pissed. MS is going to have a really hard time ever selling anything to these customers again.

Computers that just plain work

[spaceyhackerlady]

I feel part of this is a reaction of people to slow, buggy computers that crash all the time: a computer is useless if it doesn't actually work. User don't care how fast the computer is. They don't care how fancy the OS is or how many bells and whistles the applications have. As long as it does what they need it to do, they're happy.

I've actually met people who are suspicious of Macs. They're too easy. They're too reliable. They're not like other (i.e. Windows) computers. There has to be a catch, somewhere. Us Mac fans just say this is how computers are supposed to work, and it's Windows that has it wrong.

...laura

Re:Computers that just plain work

[evil_aar0n]

I'll second that. I ran my own business for five years supporting Windows, primarily, and a custom-app of Linux for one client, though I was into Linux when Linux wasn't cool (circa '94-ish). And, having since become a corporate prostitute - paperwork of running my own business was too much hassle - working on Solaris apps, I've dumped Windows for Mac. The interesting thing, and I noticed this the other day, is that I don't have to be an expert to get the Mac to do what I want. It just does it - except for Numbers, which is really weird, coming from OpenOffice. I totally don't care what goes on under the hood, anymore, really; I don't have to. "Edit the registry"? What's that?

Call me a fanboi, if you want - though you're wrong - but I can focus on what I need to do, rather than the stupid platform. And installing software on a Mac is light years ahead of Linux - sorry, guys, I know that's sacrilege on this site. Drag-and-drop. Bing! Done.

Anyone know if the Hackintosh will support UMPCs? I use a MBP, but I'd like Mac OS on one of those itty-bitty PCs.

Re:Computers that just plain work

[lophophore]

There is a catch to Macs. Apple is one of the most proprietary companies making computers today.

Proprietary == Expensive.

Do you want to run OS X? You better be prepared to shell out 30 to 50% more on hardware than on an equavalent power "commodity" computer. (Never mind lawsuit-bait Psystar. They won't be around much longer, once Apple's lawyers get their teeth into them.)

I just bought a new Lenovo Thinkpad with suse linux on it for under $950. An equivalently equipped MacBook is $1300.

Re:Computers that just plain work

[pandrijeczko]

I've actually met people who are suspicious of Macs. They're too easy. They're too reliable. They're not like other (i.e. Windows) computers. There has to be a catch, somewhere. Us Mac fans just say this is how computers are supposed to work, and it's Windows that has it wrong.

How about those of us who just don't plain want a Mac?

I don't want to pay a premium price for a hardware/software platform that is as locked down as an Apple is and where a sizeable proportion of the money I pay goes into making it "just look nice". I can tweak XP pretty heavily and ditch all the Microsoft-included apps with the FOSS ones I prefer using and it really doesn't bother me that every piece of software doesn't look the same - as long as it's logical and works, I can learn how to use it.

With Linux, I can pretty much "wipe the drawing board" and design my OS environment pretty much how I want it so it's tailored to the way I work, not the other way round.

If you like OS X then great - knock yourself out.

But I've never owned an Apple computer and really cannot ever see a reason to buy one.

Re:Apple needs to make overpriced underpowered min

[MightyYar]

Well, that was random.

Coke needs to come out with a blue-flavored cola.

does this make it.....

[OutOnARock]

The Year of the Linux UMPC?

...ducks... :) ....

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[silgaun]

You're right. It's not a failure, it's a feature

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[spottedkangaroo]

Yeah, seriously. Who compiles it anymore? Gentoo is pretty hardcore. I think regular people can install ubuntu in an hour or so, probably much faster than vista.

Re:One Pair of Glasses

[zappepcs]

Well, let me have a stab at this. For some time now, it 'seems' like MS business decisions might have been made by looking at the chairs scattered in the hallway outside the boardroom like so many tea leaves in the bottom of a cup.

Whether you like MS or not, clearly Vista was not the big deal it was supposed to be, and has failed to live up to expectations of even many MS fanbois. With users and businesses requesting XP be installed on new machines, and requests for longer lifecycle for XP added to the growth in GNU/Linux marketshare plus GNU/Linux shipping on some big name OEM machines. The trend here is not a positive one for MS. MSN is not making money, Zune is not making money, XBox isn't making any real money, XP is not causing the finance group to be all smiles either. Clearly the bid for Yahoo was a sign to everyone that MS does not plan to innovate it's way out of the maelstrom they find themselves in right now. When you get caught bluffing at poker, your hand is played out.

MS will have to do something rather extraordinary to turn the current trend around. Trying to do that in the midst of a recession might be difficult. There are very large organizations (whole countries even) that have decided to dump MS Windows products for various reasons. It really doesn't matter how good XP was or is, MS marketshare is leaching away in many areas. Wii helped with that. Ubuntu et al have helped with it. Dell et al helped too. In a recession Free sounds a lot better than 350 bucks, especially when it runs better on your old hardware than Vista does on brand new hardware. Of course there is the whole DRM thing to think of also. Then there is the iPod halo effect bringing more Mac customers.

There are plenty of reasons for NOT choosing Vista or MS products. Linux is one alternative, and it does deserve some of the lime light in this situation. If Linux wasn't working so good, MS would be making money off of Vista de facto.

The fact that there is only a very minute chance that you managed to post your message without relying on some version of Linux sort of technically means that Linux *IS* related and germane to a whole lot of things in the world today.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[m.ducharme]

vista has made MS a bunch of money This is true, but success/failure depends on how much money was made, and whether it was enough to justify the expense and/or unintended consequences.

[Vista] has given them a great wake-up call to shape up or ship out. People usually say this about failures.

It'll only be a failure if they never release another version of Windows, and don't learn from their mistakes. MS will probably release another (newer, as opposed to just updating XP) version of Windows, but it's not obvious that they will learn from their Vista mistakes. Either way, it's certainly too early to tell if it's been a total failure. I think it's safe to say that from a marketing standpoint, it's been a failure.

Stupidest os release?

[fluffy99]

From the article

...and Vista is looking more and more like Microsoft's stupidest operating system release ever. Yes, even counting Windows ME and MS-DOS 4.0.

I think that honor belongs to Microsoft Bob http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Bob

Re:Stupidest os release?

[UnknowingFool]

In terms of strategic planning, Vista was a stupid move. Unlike Bob and ME, MS does not have an alternative for Vista ready for their customers. For Bob, Windows 95 was released 5 months later. For ME, Windows 2k was 6 months earlier and XP was a year later. Vista was released in Jan 2007 and the earliest Windows 7 release is projected for 2010. Strategically, MS has to hope that Windows 7 can convince their customers to stay with them and not use other OS's as companies evaluate upgrades.

How much longer can Windows really stick around?

[HomerJ]

XP does the two things you really want an OS to do well. Run all the software you want, on the hardware you want. But XP is getting long in the tooth.

The market is going to things like these UMPCs. It's going to tablets and other exotic hardware. Windows is losing one of the two things here. Vista doesn't run at all on them. Microsoft's only answer is keep putting out XP. On these systems, even XP doesn't run on the hardware as well as Linux.

Next up is software. These aren't gaming PCs. Linux is running the software people want to run. Firefox, Pidgin for IMs, It plays media without hassles. It has an office suite. Toss wine on there, and it will even run Office. Look at all the solutions that mac users use to run a couple Windows programs on OSX. The market is coming around to just using emulation for that last 5% of Windows software they want or need to run.

If Windows loses the only two reasons people put up with it, why would they continue to run it? OEMs are seeing this as well, and are just putting out Linux machines. Dell is going "If people buying Apple machines will use Parallels to run Windows stuff they can't in OSX, why can't they just use Crossover to run them on Linux"? In a market like PC, that $20 they spend on that Windows license is $20 they can't lower the price to compete with others. That $20 is a difference in someone buying a Dell, and going elsewhere.

Windows may end up being a niche market, with business that just need native Windows for one reason or another. But considering they are losing the two reasons home users RUN Windows, and then the added headaches associated to running it, why are they going to continue to bother?

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Gat0r30y]

Goople? oh dear, I just threw up a little.

Thanks to Vista, too

[Junior J. Junior III]

If Vista didn't suck so much and wasn't as bloated as a dead whale carcass, Windows XP wouldn't have a reason to stick around. It's not just Linux, give credit where it's due.

The fact that Vista took 6 years to get here meant that the minimum specs for running Windows.CurrentVersion didn't change for 6 years, which created a market for ultra-cheap subnotebooks that would run like shit if they had to run Vista. Linux wins there, and XP's Microsoft's stopgap to try to compete with it.

The market did wake up. M$ is Over.

[Odder]

No one is going for the same old shit anymore. Vista IS a maintained XP. All they did was gloss the GUI and gum up the core with constant indexing and DRM madness. Every version of Windows has been like that but the market has wriggled free. Who's going back to paying M$ for SDKs when GNU/Linux does the same or better for free? As hardware makers go, so customers will follow. Ballmer declared developers as all important, but only as "pawns and one night stands". The same reasoning applies to hardware makers, customers, and everyone else. The whole OOXML attack at ISO proves that nothing has changed at Microsoft.

Yeah right.

[magamiako1]

Unfortunately this headline is very sensationalist, and provides a very limited scope of the entirety IT industry as a whole.

Basically, the person who blogged this has been reading too many internet blogs surrounding these products.

Intel's ATOM CPU was not aimed at the "UMPC" market, though most certainly can be used in this fashion. Intel's Atom is aimed at the ARM market. They targetted it for the mobile phone/handheld device market.

Sure, your random IT geek bloggers are going to talk about the latest "smallest mobile gadget" and everything like that because that's what they do. That's their job. They're not going to talk up how Dell rolls out a new line of high end laptops because guess what? It doesn't sell their blog. These people are "gadget geeks" and not IT nerds.

Microsoft's spurred change on XP has a lot to do with the fact that companies rolling out desktops want to continue rolling out desktops that they know will work with their existing infrastructure. Why move to Vista, for example, when all of your servers are running Server 2003?

Having the option there is certainly not a bad thing, and it's by no means an admittance by Microsoft that "Vista sucks". Software-wise, Vista and Server 2008 are light years beyond the Server 2003/XP combination and continue to grow.

Where Microsoft is going to grow their market, however, is through a more "peer to peer" "social" computing concept, which they are experimenting with the Live Mesh project.

The biggest problem facing very large IT environments today is how to find data that you've got stored? You can have Z:\shares\commonshares\departments\finance\finance documents\marys finance documents\2008\march\monthly sheet for April.xls (multiply this by 1000000x and this is what most IT environments have) and be completely unable to find it.

So they're working on improved searching features, and again, things like Live Mesh are going to help this even more. They're also working on Sharepoint to provide even easier management of such items.

Microsoft isn't going anywhere, Linux and Apple aren't going to squeeze them out, and the EEE PC is just a fad. As soon as the "average joe" gets his hands on one and realize it won't play his video games, he's going to take it back and that's that.

Re:Just keep stalling..

[KGIII]

I am not sure why they were modded down really. It seems reasonably on-topic and they should be welcome to their opinion. I suspect that they are a bit like myself and one of the six other people who actually had sustained enjoyable productive experiences on Windows ME. Sometimes we even had stable machines.

I was never sure if WinME was a SP for the 9x line or a beta for XP but I, and the afore mentioned six people, really enjoyed it.

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[LWATCDR]

Humm. I wonder. If you take all the Tivos, WAPs, Cellphones, and other embedded devices that come with Linux install on them you might actually beat Vista "Sales"
You might also beat Vista sales if you only count retail boxes of Vista vs sales of Linux :)

BTW
https://shipit.ubuntu.com/
They will ship you a Linux CD for free.
So no download, no compile, and if you really don't want to you don't even have to install it to use it. It will work as a live-CD.
Should be as easy to install as Vista if not more so.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[compro01]

Vista has made a bunch of revenue. Whether that revenue will offset the sizable development cost of vista along with the spreading "I don't like it" sentiment that it has brought upon (both actual and perceived) is the question, which I don't have an answer to.

Re:I knew it

[meringuoid]

Finally this is the year of desktop linux.

This isn't the desktop. It's the micro-laptop. But it's a beginning.

We had one of the women from upstairs come down to the IT dungeon a couple of weeks ago. Wanted to get her (personal) laptop set up so she could read email while on the road, which meant configuring it to connect through a 3G USB stick, then bookmarking the company's webmail in the browser.

She'd bought it, having done without laptops in the past, because it was small and cute and pink and cheap and fit in her handbag. Yep, it's an Eee.

In case anyone's wondering, yes, they work perfectly, at least with the Vodafone sticks; there's a free download of the necessary software, with a version especially for the Eee that adds an icon in the Internet pane, and Vodafone even run an apt repository for it. I was expecting to get to play the Unix guru, but this was simpler than it is on the bloody Windows boxes!

So: someone wholly clueless bought this machine because of its size and price and cute factor. She wouldn't know what Linux was if you beat her about the head with a plump contented well-fed penguin. Wouldn't know an operating system from a hole in the ground. But she'd been playing happily with it for days and loving the damn thing. Best of all, the usual question of 'what happens when they try to install [INSERT DUMB USER PROGRAM HERE]' doesn't arise: Eee's got no disk drives :-)

These machines are going to produce an army of users who are used to Firefox and OpenOffice.org and all the rest of our beloved open-source applications. Once they've found that they can do everything they expect of a computer with these systems... well, Joe Public isn't tech-savvy, but he'll notice the price premium for Windows, remember how their geeky nephew Timmy said it was because those ones go to pay Bill Gates The Richest Man In The World even more money but these don't, and make the obvious decision.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[LehiNephi]

It's worse than just the retail numbers. Microsoft takes credit for every machine that is sold with Vista, whether or not that machine is sold with an XP install or whether the user subsequently wipes Vista and replaces it with something else. So basically every laptop sold to a business with a site license has counted as a sale of Vista, even though almost every large business replaces it with their own image.

My company (over 50k employees) took four years after the release of XP to adopt the new OS. They're moving more quickly on Vista, however, with rollout scheduled for 2009. It'll be really interesting to watch--about 50% of our entire workforce and 80-90% of our management are over 47 years old. There's going to be a great deal of bellyaching when users are suddenly confronted with the brand new user interface for both the shell (Aero will be on by default) and office suite (2007). I'll adapt fairly easily, I expect, since I'm still in my 20's, but I feel sorry for the poor folks at the Helpdesk when it hits.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Andy Dodd]

Actually I know quite a few people who love Windows Mobile, including myself.

Many of those people are hardcore Linux users on the desktop, too.

The iPhone is a toy. It's shiny and cool but it isn't very flexible. My AT&T Tilt blows it out of the water in every aspect except user interface, and the UI of the Tilt is good enough for me, especially considering the significantly better functionality.

Android looks like it's going to cater to the Lords of Lockdown (carriers).

It's really sad that the most open mobile phone platform out there is Windows Mobile. Everything else is a nightmare of signed applications and lockdown.

(Yes, Windows Mobile has application signing, but every WM device I know uses this for warning purposes only, not lockout. In addition, WM will remember when you say "yes, I want to run this unsigned app" and not bother you again.)

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple dominates the high end market and GNU/Linux rules the low. Soon the ends will meet and M$ will be squeezed out. Vista is a failure and it has taken M$ down with it.

The change is permenant. Vendors have revolted, M$ won't be able to come back. Yes, M$ won't be able to come back. They are dead. They've passed on. They've ceased to be. They've expired and gone on to meet their makers. They're collectively a stiff. Bereft of life, they rest in peace. If Vista didn't require so much power from modern computers, they'd have some energy left to be pushing up the daisies. Their metabolic processes are now history. They're off the twig. They've kicked the bucket. They've shuffled off this mortal coil. They've run down the curtain and joined the choir invisible. This is an ex-company.

The tide has turned. The bridges have been burned. The show is over. The day is done. The war is won. The keg is drained. The horse is dead. The sun has set. The goldfish has gone belly-up. The farm is bought. The fat lady's sung. The house lights have gone on. The toast is burnt. The grounds crew has taken the field. The disco is over. The next sound you hear will be the sound of the ambassador's phone melting. The parade has started. The spark is gone. The magic has left. The phone is ringing. The speeches are done. This premise is wearing thin.

Re:Just keep stalling..

[LWATCDR]

"No joke... ME is universally known as the worst of the Windows versions of all time (even worse than Vista)."

I don't know about that. ME was a stinker but people where not spending $200 to buy Win98SE to install over it.

In all me years I have never seen an OS get level of resistance that Vista is.

I think Vista is a waste but the shear hate that normal people are showing for it is shocking too me.

Re:Just keep stalling..

[meringuoid]

I was never sure if WinME was a SP for the 9x line or a beta for XP

It was the last of the 9x series. Windows XP was delayed again and again, as you'll recall. '98 was pretty much '95 with FAT32, and even with the SE update it was showing its age. ME was a stopgap to fill the space between Win98 and WinXP.

Of course all the talent at the time was working on Windows 2000 and on XP - the NT lineage which Windows follows today. So ME was a half-arsed mess of an OS, and it's only a mercy its lifespan was so short.

Re:The market did wake up. M$ is Over.

[kjkeefe]

Funny, they used to say the same thing about IBM...

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[initdeep]

Have you ever installed Vista?

i thought not.

Re:Not even close, try in 8 hours as many as Linux

[jedidiah]

Vista sold on the same number of machines that XP would have sold on otherwise.

Don't try to confuse anyone into believing that Vista is a real product in it's
own right. It's just another version of Windows. So what if the latest version of
MonopolyOS sells as many copies of the latest version of MonopolyOS.

Even the current version of MacOS selling as many copies as the last wouldn't be
terribly exciting.

Pointing out the fact that Vista is the latest iteration of a monopoly that
stretches back to DOS doesn't alter the fact that alternative(S) are growing.

Re:The market did wake up. M$ is Over.

[jedidiah]

...you mean the same IBM that came back with a vengance as a server company. ...or the same Sun that's still around as one of the dominant server vendors. ...or Netscape which is starting to chip away the monopoly/OEM acquired marketshare of IE?

Even Novell is doing pretty well by way of SLES.

AOL is the same sort of dinosaur as Microsoft. Microsoft never eliminated them. The internet
made them both look foolish. Although AOL was enough of a success based on it's own merits
before to linger on for awhile anyways.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Poorcku]

Android will have a very hard time against this: Ericsson , Nokia , Panasonic , Samsung , Siemens and Sony Ericsson. And no, they are not using windows mobile. They are all shareholders at Symbian.

May I remind all of you that windows mobile is a smartphone OS. Not middle to low phone market. It is a "niche" OS. "Everybody else" just landed 18.5m Symbian mobile phones shipped to consumers. That is 73% market share.

On what phones will Android be shipped? Only on Motorola? If that is the case, Android is dead before it was born.

Re:One Pair of Glasses

[Goobergunch]

The fact that there is only a very minute chance that you managed to post your message without relying on some version of Linux sort of technically means that Linux *IS* related and germane to a whole lot of things in the world today.

In fact, given that Slashdot runs on Linux, I'd say that it's impossible to post a message here without relying on Linux.

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[DittoBox]

Gentoo is not hard core. Any monkey that can use a command line can do a Stage 1 Gentoo install (I'm proof!). Linux From Scratch is hard core.

emerge "teh hardcorz"

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[limaxray]

I have the same phone and IMO the phone is great except for WM sucks big time. I like OSX on the iPhone, but at the end of the day it lacks a lot a very basic functionality that WM has. When Android come out though, I'll be on that bandwagon in a heartbeat

Anyway, I strongly suggest looking into flashing it with a new radio and WM6.1 ROM. You can enable all sorts of great functionality like GPS, EVDO Rev A, and ICS (if you have VW and the bastards disabled it). Check it out here

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[sabre3999]

Many of the other Linux flavors are just as simple... I consider myself a Linux noob yet I've smoothly installed OpenSuSe, Fedora Core, and Ubuntu. OpenSuSe was so easy that I even had my little brother convert to it. As a matter of fact, I'm still using my OpenSuSe install... no one wants random Windows crashes during a CS lecture or compiling your exam programs right? I also use IPCop on an old 486 as my router, replacing a Dlink that had to re restarted every 10 minutes. 5 months up with no restarts. A user can definitely be happy with that, even if the install wasn't smooth ^.^

Re:Not even close, try in 8 hours as many as Linux

[hostyle]

Have you tried ordering from the likes of Dell recently? Just go through the motions, no need to actually buy. You can still get XP, but its specified as "Genuine Windows® Vistaâ Ultimate with XP Professional installed". Says it all about Vista sales figures as far as I'm concerned.

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[oakgrove]

Yeah, but how long does it take to install all of the software and updated drivers for your various hardware including multiple reboots? And what about your favorite apps? How long does it take to install those what with swapping out the install CDs and such? Sticking in the Vista DVD and waiting the 20 or so minutes to get to a desktop is just the beginning.

On my Ubuntu box, I just install the OS pull up Add/Remove software, click a few boxes for the stuff I want, hit apply and I'm done.

Anybody who uses Linux on a regular basis I'm sure can identify with the groan inducing tediousness you prepare yourself to put up with when a friend or family member asks you to help them install Windows.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[Darkness404]

It's a pretty good time to be alive if you're a geek.

I disagree. Now, it seems like you don't ever "own" any of your devices, your phone is somehow tied into your cell provider, your computer is the *AA's if you don't use Linux, the makers of game consoles constantly try to brick you if you use a modchip, and all your media you haven't pirated or downloaded off of a DRM-Free site is tied to your account. So no, it isn't the greatest time, because now, you don't own a single thing.

Re:Talk about la-la-land.

[willyhill]

I'm not Twitter

No, of course you're not. You're just some dude that created a Slashdot account three weeks ago with a grand total of 60 comments, most of which are spent shilling twitter's posts and those of his other nine accounts.

It's just all a big misunderstanding.

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[oakgrove]

This is absolutely true. However, keep in mind, that first of all, it's generally set and forget. You click the boxes, hit apply, then walk away. When you get back all of your software is installed and ready to go. No, next, next, next, etc. like on Windows. There are exceptions, java, VirtualBox, and a few others come to mind where you actually have to do something during the install but not very many apps are like that. Also, on *nix with so many shared libraries, the downloads for a particular piece of software tends to be much smaller than for a comparable piece of software on Windows.

Re:Windows and OSX

[pandrijeczko]

I wish you Apple people would learn about that word called "perspective".

Okay, let's have a reasoned logical argument about where OS X is going - you from the point of (I suspect) an OS X user and me, someone who uses mostly Linux, a bit of XP (and quite likes it) and has never yet found the need to ever own an Apple product.

Yes, Apple is gaining market share and over here in the UK, even I have seen a new Apple store open in my local shopping centre. But here in the UK, and I suspect in the rest of Europe, for desktops Apple is still pretty much in third place - behind Windows and Linux. Yes, that may change in the future but the fact is I see a lot more people using Ubuntu than I do OS X, the main reason being that here Apple machines are not the equivalent in pounds or euros that they are in dollars in the US - invariably a lot more expensive here.

In the USA, the demographic is different and I'll accept that over there Apple's share probably puts them in second place, maybe as high as 12% with Linux in third place.

So, having established that as a premise, then where are the new Apple users coming from?

In the first instance, they're coming from the Windows user base. Whether or not Vista is actually a great OS or a piece of crap, the fact is that it has had a really bad press in the eyes of most people. On top of that, it's a lot more expensive than XP was (if you're a home user who wants all the features in the Ultimate Edition or whatever it's called) and it's just not that easy any more to copy a disk at work of all the Microsoft software you want. Therefore, you have to buy Microsoft software now which means that the price difference between buying a PC with Windows and an Apple with OS X is closing.

Secondly, there's the "cool" factor of Apple. Personally, I completely fail to understand why a "tool" that is a computer has to be "cool" but I won't deny that some people are that way inclined.

And finally, who uses Windows, OS X and Linux on the desktop? Well, for starters, if you're going to pigeon-hole everyone, then write the three down as "OS X------Windows------Linux".

In other words, OS X is a diametrically opposite alternative to Linux. Some people don't want to use Windows and have no interest in understanding about how a computer and software work, they want to get jobs done and entertain themselves, they don't mind paying a premium price and so they gravitate to an Apple.

Other people want more power and control over their computers, they don't mind steep learning curves and tinkering with their machines, so they gravitate to Linux. They may also not want to (or be able to) pay for software and brand new hardware so they too will take the Linux path. Yes, some may try out Ubuntu, find it to be too hard to work with and maybe go back to Windows or even buy an Apple.

So what I'm trying to say is that you should not make any direct comparisons between OS X and Linux because they are complete opposites. OS X users generally see Linux as "primitive" and like the eye-candy and GUI an Apple gives them, whereas Linux users see OS X as a locked down operating system that can only run on very specific machines and cannot be "tailored" to run as a desktop, server or however they want on whatever they want.

As I said at the start, I've never found any reason to buy an Apple computer. Any OS I touch (whether Windows, BSD or Linux) I tweak and streamline to ditch all they eye-candy and just get "maximum bucks for CPU cycles" so any machine where that ability is locked away from me just doesn't interest me.

So please stop hailing OS X as "The Great White Hope" of operating systems because it isn't, just like Linux isn't. The two of them are "alternatives" to not having to be entirely reliant (or ever reliant) on Windows. And bearing in mind that I personally do everything from playing games & media, writing documents and spreadsheets, a little photo-editing, some shell and Perl programming, supporting Linux servers at work and for some private clients, OS X just doesn't get a look in and probably never will do.

Yes, some people like OS X and good luck to them - but at least an equal number of people don't give it a second thought.

get the summary correct...

[EdelFactor19]

did he really say "dad company"? I know what he meant, and I'm sure plenty of others did but the expression is "Parent Company" this has been the case long before the concept of gender neutral writing and PC-ness were as rampant as they are today.

and seeing as Ubuntu isn't a company this is only made more inaccurate. Taken straight from the horses mouth: About Ubuntu

Ubuntu is a community developed and supported project. Since its launch in October 2004, Ubuntu has become one of the most highly regarded Linux distributions with millions of users around the world.

Ubuntu will always be free to download, free to use and free to distribute to others. With these goals in mind, Ubuntu aims to be the most widely used Linux system, and is the centre of a global open source software ecosystem.
About Canonical Ltd

Canonical, the commercial sponsor of Ubuntu, is a global organisation headquartered in Europe committed to the development, distribution and support of open source software products and communities.

Canonical staff and software have deep roots in the open source community and a proven track record of success in the commercial software industry. Team members include leaders from the Gnome, Linux, Debian and Bazaar open source projects, helping Canonical to stay at the forefront of the rapidly changing open source software world.

World-class 24x7 commercial support for Ubuntu is delivered through the Canonical Global Support Team and its worldwide network of partners.

Canonical currently sponsors the development of a number of important technology products. See sponsored projects for further details.

Re:The market did wake up. M$ is Over.

[kesuki]

"..or Firefox which is starting to chip away the monopoly/OEM acquired marketshare of IE?"

There fixed that for you, netscape, owned by AOL Time Warner whatever is basically dead, as now even AOL is shipping firefox, instead of netscape. both were based off gecko, and firefox is to date developed by a grant from netscape that was paid for when AOL bought out netscape as one of the deal clauses.

it's a complicated thing, but right now google is paying for more of firefox's development than AOL is, because firefox is independent of the company that AOL acquired known as 'netscape'

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[iamhassi]

"Who BUYS a PC with Linux?"

did you not read the article summary above?

"It turned out people wanted inexpensive, hard-working Linux laptops"

The entire story is about XP being kept alive simply because people are BUYING a PC (er, laptop) with Linux. So yes, people are buying Linux PCs, enough so that M$ is scared.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[mewsenews]

I disagree. Now, it seems like you don't ever "own" any of your devices, your phone is somehow tied into your cell provider, your computer is the *AA's if you don't use Linux, the makers of game consoles constantly try to brick you if you use a modchip, and all your media you haven't pirated or downloaded off of a DRM-Free site is tied to your account. So no, it isn't the greatest time, because now, you don't own a single thing.

This is total tripe and pessimism! One of the defining characteristics of a geek in this age is that they are able to discern what a load of garbage this stuff is. They use unlocked GSM phones, they avoid DRM like they've been born to do so, and they do all these things with the full knowledge of what makes Quality.

And this wonderful Internet that lets us discuss this, allows them to share their ideas and feelings with similar-minded people from around the globe!

How is this not a golden age?!

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[PitaBred]

If there's not a critical mass of people avoiding DRM and working with unlocked hardware, it just won't be available any more. That's the point. It'll become a very niche, if still existent, market. The golden age will be when everyone has proper, unencumbered information sharing.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[thetoadwarrior]

I had an Orange SPV M3100 which is an HTC windows mobile 5 based phone and it was quite honestly the biggest hassle I've ever had with a phone.

It was glitchy and had issue with displaying jpg backgrounds but only sometimes. It would completely forget it's calibration settings but not on a consistent basis. It'd be fine for months then it would forget them every time I turn it on for a week. It is also the only phone I've ever had that, if it loses the signal for any extended period of time it has to be turned off to find a signal.

Having said all of that it wasn't the worst phone I've ever had. I loved having Wifi on a phone. However Nokia's N95 phones offer the same sort of features but run better and have better game support. My biggest problems with the phone stem from the fact Orange is quite possibly the shittiest phone company ever.

People may expect problems with their desktop but with phones and similar devices they expect it to just work and Windows Mobile doesn't offer that as well as the others.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[4D6963]

Translation : "WAAAH! WAAAH!". That's what your post sounds like.

your phone is somehow tied into your cell provider

Sure, if it's an iPhone. And yet. Otherwise just buy an unlocked one/unlock it yourself.

your computer is the *AA's if you don't use Linux

You know, there are other alternatives to Linux than Windows Vista, which is all you can possibly be refering to. Anyone using Vista on their home computer needs to hand their geek badge over anyways. So your point is moot.

the makers of game consoles constantly try to brick you if you use a modchip

Oh no, the makers of a product try to ruin your experience with their product if you try to ruin their business model which is sell underpriced hardware for no profit (even loss) to make money on games which the only purpose of a modchip is to play for free.

all your media you haven't pirated or downloaded off of a DRM-Free site is tied to your account

Oh noes, the only alternatives to DRM-free solutions are.. DRM-based solutions! WAAAH!!!

I'll tell you why it's a great time to be a geek, I can watch TV shows that are not broadcasted in my country on a device that fits in my pocket, for free. I can play every game I would play on Sega Genesis as a kid on the same type of device, for free as well. And I can administrate the company that employs me's infrastructure from my bed, with the same wireless device. Oh my, what an awful time to be a geek!

Re:The market did wake up. M$ is Over.

[jonbryce]

Firefox is funded by their advertising revenue from Google. If you look at their accounts, they are actually pretty profitable.

http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/documents/mf-2006-audited-financial-statement.pdf

At 2006 (2007 is not published yet):

Surplus for the year $28m, total unrestricted funds $58m.

Re:Vista seems not bad on the high end

[pandrijeczko]

In my home office I have four desktop PCs - two run XP and two run Linux.

Up to two weeks ago, the XP machines had Athlon 64 CPUs in them whilst the Linux machines had Athlon XP CPUs in them.

Two weeks ago, I bought two new (cheap) Intel Dual Core motherboards to put in the XP machines to get a little more power for gaming. So I put the Intel motherboards in the XP machines and moved the Athlon 64s to the Linux machines.

After migration, the Linux machines booted absolutely fine - a ten minute kernel recompile on both machines, job done.

On the XP machines, they wouldn't boot the original XP installations, they blue-screened. I had to reinstall Windows on both and, even though both of my XP licenses are entirely legitimate, I had to ring Microsoft to get different license keys. It took me the best part of a day to reinstall Windows and longer to reinstall all the other games and apps that now wouldn't work because of registry bits missing.

I've decided that I'm going to change the Linux PCs to run 64-bit Linux. I use Gentoo Linux so I accept I'm probably going to need to do a reinstall using a 64-bit bootdisk and I suspect there will be some headaches getting everything to compile properly as 64-bit Gentoo is a bit less mature than 32-bit Gentoo. But I'll copy off all the config files in home directories and /etc, rebuild and copy all the stuff back and most of it should pretty much work as before. Plus I can build one machine, get it running okay, then just copy everything over to the other and do another simple kernel recompile because the two AMD 64 motherboards are different.

With Windows, I have to buy two new 64-bit XP licenses or, if I completely lose my sanity, by two Vista licenses. Yes, maybe the included migration tool will do a lot of the hard work for me but ultimately it's another two rebuilds, no chance of just rebuilding one and copying across.

Oh, and BTW, using all of 4 gigs of ram is simply about how much memory a 32-bit environment can address - 64-bit Linux can address and use 4 gigs of RAM equally as well as (64-bit) Vista.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[dave420]

Sure, if you listen to the sensationalist, bandwagon-leaping-on news stories about Vista raping cats and giving people AIDS, then you're going to get a very jaded view of the OS's adoption. I doubt you've read many articles covering people who are very happy with Vista, yet those users (and those stories) are out there. Those folks will probably buy Windows again. Vista has been doing rather well in stores, too. Sales have picked up rapidly, and couple that with the number of companies who are buying Vista VLKs (cue the tried and tested "ooh monopoly/vendor-lock-in/FUD-victims/linux-haters/whatever" response), and non-hardware-bundled Vista sales are doing very well. Those folks will probably buy Windows again, too. It is sustainable growth. You might not think it, if all you read is the aforementioned sensationalism, but that doesn't change reality. Making massive generalisations like "their customers are massively pissed" betrays the tenuous foundations (maybe wishful thinking) your argument is based on.

Re:EEEPC already does that. M$ is over.

[zeromorph]

I happen to disagree with you both, it's always good time to be a geek. It was when my father brought home a Sharp MZ whatever. It was a good time when he was soldering in his first transistor radio. It was when my grandfather bought his first motorcycle in the 1920s and crossed the Alps with it. It was when one of my ancestors got his first water driven hammer mill. It probably was when the first person was tinkering with steam, gun powder, paper or fire.

Another Linux Convert

[AttillaTheNun]

I've been dreading the day when I'd bork my WinXP and I'd have to consider ponying up for Vista. Even with a dual boot WinXP/Linux, I'd become dependent on WinXP out of laziness once I bought Warcraft III and discovered DOTA :)

Well, it finally happened a few weeks ago. No looking back now - I bit the bullet and reformatted the whole kit and kaboodle and installed Ubuntu 8.04 as my only OS to see how long I could go without Windows. Getting Warcraft/DOTA working on Wine was the point of no return. Boot up time is a fraction of what it used to be without all the usual Windows and antiVirus/spyware overhead crud. Everything else is much snappier and I no longer need to fear the day when I have to deal with Vista.

Add one more to the converted masses.

MS Gavage and Netbook limitations

[nostriluu]

I've been trying to make this point on gadget blogs for a while. In fact, I would suggest calling MS Vista "MS Gavage," what MS wanted everyone to do is switch to Vista immediately and XP to become a memory, never mind most hardware isn't ready for Vista (and lighter alternatives will always run faster/have better battery life). Yay for open and free operating systems.

Speaking of which, the new netbooks are nice, more than decent for what most people need, but they mostly have low memory limits, which is strange considering how cheap memory is and how much of a performance boost it can bring. I can understand only including 512MB or a GB, but why not allow more?

Battery life also sucks, give me a netbook with an option for 7 hour life please, good enough for all day.

Re:Thing is, Vista sells more in a day than linux

[yelvington]

I installed Ubuntu Linux and did a "first run" of Microsoft Vista, side by side, and Ubuntu won the race. I assume that means Vista didn't really come "installed," but rather with just an installer pointed at some .CAB files.

There really wasn't a significant difference either way, and I didn't do much other than wait and confirm an occasional dialog/default. The idea that Linux is harder to install than Vista has never been true. Linux installations became insanely easy long before Microsoft shipped its Edsel.

By the way, the Vista installation was on my teen daughter's new laptop. Performance was so poor that I reformatted and switched her to Ubuntu. The original Ubuntu installation was on her grandmother's PC. Both are working out just fine.