Slashdot Mirror


Mass Effect DRM Still Causing Issues

An anonymous reader writes "There was some discussion last month about the proposed DRM for Mass Effect and Spore that required the game to phone home every ten days. They backed down from that, but have left in that a user is only allowed 3 activations per license key. A license key is burned up when the O/S is reinstalled, when certain hardware is upgraded (EA refuses to disclose specifics of what), and possibly when a new user is set up in Windows. Only in its first month, some users are already locked out of their games from trying troubleshooting techniques to get the game running."

21 of 593 comments (clear)

  1. Thats what they get by cstdenis · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thats what they get for buying it instead of pirating it. The cracked version(s) don't have any problems like this.

    Protection like this certainly doesn't encourage paying for the game when the free version is better.

    --
    1984 was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
    1. Re:Thats what they get by Reapman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So true... people still hack the software to make it work, but those trying to follow the straight and narrow get nothing but grief. How is this a good thing? Reminds me of the DRM used a few years ago (still is?) where the game was faster cracked since it wasn't constantly scanning the CD drive verifying the disc was still in there.

    2. Re:Thats what they get by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's the problem with most if not all copy "prevention" (the quotes are necessary, since it prevents jack) mechanisms: Those who play by the rules get shafted while those that don't get rewarded.

      The actual problem with DRM is that, unlike with ordinary goods where I have an additional value when I buy something rather than hoping it "falls off a truck". I get warrenty, I get a manual, I get support, I may get cheap(er) addons. It's exactly reverse with DRMed goods. You get more value out of "stealing" it.

      Yes, convenience is a value in a good. Actually, convenience has become a good in and of itself. Valet parking is nothing but a convenience, still people pay for it. The reason why Windows is still more in use than Linux with private users is the convenience of its use and the software for it. Convenience is a big selling point. And just this important key point is actually better when I copy&crack software rather than buying it?

      That's why DRM will fail with the masses. Not because of the privacy invasion or the "phoning home". People don't care about that. But they do care about the loss of convenience.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Thats what they get by Winckle · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep, I get that with Civ 4, which doesn't have cd keys for the game or the expansions, it has the old fashioned "disk in drive" copy protection.

      5 minutes and 3 no CD exes later my game runs even better.

    4. Re:Thats what they get by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What a load of horseshit. Let us say that life is fair and the world is perfect and everyone who wanted to use some piece of software actually paid for it. Greedy Corp X will still throw DRM at it because now they want you to pay for it for every machine you want to run it on... for every user that has an account on every machine you want to run it on... every three months for eternity.

      DRM isn't REALLY about software piracy. I haven't known one person that has said "Hey! It is difficult to pirate this. I may as well just go buy it!". It is about squeezing the most money out of you that they possibly can for the least amount of product.

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    5. Re:Thats what they get by NormalVisual · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But, because I am not blinded by the sheeple mentality I do actually see that there is a benefit to DRM if used properly, implemented properly...

      Not to the purchaser, unless you want to say "without DRM, the content would not have been made available at all". Any digital file without DRM is inherently more flexible and useful than after it's applied, and to say that it's beneficial to the purchaser is twisting words around - DRM exists solely to benefit the content provider at the expense of the purchaser.

      As regards the "sheeple" comment - just because someone doesn't agree with your opinion doesn't automatically make them incapable of critical thought. I read your opinion, I understand it, but I still disagree with it from the perspective of the buying public - that doesn't make me or anyone else deserving of that kind of ad hom.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    6. Re:Thats what they get by 777a · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Elder Scrolls 3 - Morrowind, safedisc harmed performance so much that the developers removed it in the first patch. The nocd crack was recommended by just about everyone.

      Part of the problem is that the developers don't usually install any DRM, it's usually done by the distributors.

      So even if the developers thoroughly test a product, but the public always beta tests the DRM.

    7. Re:Thats what they get by Bazar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But if it only stops casual piracy what's the point? The point is to get cheapskates to pay up. I'd argue that a reasonable amount of money is lost because people would rather pirate instead of pay.

      If they couldn't pirate, then one would assume sales would go up.
      Thats the theory behind it all.

      The theory falls short because its always remained easy to pirate the game. Download the game, then crack the exe. For some this will be out of their league, and its those people that casual DRM is most effective on.
      Taking an arms race on DRM on those that know how to crack a game will achieve nothing, because game publishers are far too outnumbered to put up a real fight.

      However in their attempt, a lot of innocent customers are getting are getting caught in the cross-fire. From having CD's fail to be read due to improper FAT tables, system instabilities from malware running in the background, and now license key lockouts.

      The sad part is, DRM on games just isn't effective, and whats worse, for all those pirates that don't/won't purchase a game, i strongly suspect they boost the legal sales of the game indirectly (viral marketing)

      I've been forced to cracking games I've legally purchased just to get around their DRM lockouts. And the more DRM they add to the games, the faster I'll resort to cracking.

      Moral of this rant was best said by vader:
      "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"
      --
      To avoid criticism; Say nothing, Do nothing, Be nothing.
    8. Re:Thats what they get by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is a slight inconvenience for the user...

      If you assume that the user is on a desktop sits next to his shelf full of game discs. On the other hand, if the user has a laptop (which may not even have an optical drive) and doesn't feel like lugging all his game discs around with him all the time, it is a huge inconvenience -- so much of one, in fact, that he'd be very likely to pirate the game out of pure spite!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    9. Re:Thats what they get by mrchaotica · · Score: 5, Funny

      Moral of this rant was best said by vader: "The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"

      How do you manage to get the quote verbatim, but misattribute it so badly?

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  2. Re:DRM is pointless by LiquidAvatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd disagree - this DRM is making this honest man pirate. If a DRM suite cripples my legitimate use of the product, then I'm going to acquire the product without the DRM.

    --
    It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
    -Voltaire
  3. Re:Well, by FinchWorld · · Score: 5, Insightful
    That's the downside from copy protection. If you make it too weak, it is easily cracked. If you make it to strong, you lock out legit users.

    And it'll still be cracked

    Since Spore is a single-player game

    and mass effect too...

    --
    "I may be full of crap about this game, and I may be wrong, and that's fine." -Jack Thompson
  4. Re:DRM is pointless by digitrev · · Score: 5, Insightful
    No, the real question is will you continue to remain an honest man because of this? If your software acquisition process looks like this:
    1. Buy software.
    2. Install software.
    3. Get frustrated.
    4. Crack software.
    you'll soon start to cut out steps 2 and 3, and then just cut out step 1.
    --
    Cynical Idealist
  5. Re:Well, by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no distinction between weak and strong copy protection. No matter how strong, it will be broken. Whether 1% or 0.000001% of the people have the skill to break it is meaningless, it only takes one person to break it. Then it's spread millionfold through the net. Whether someone else breaks it too doesn't make a difference.

    There is a difference between copy protection that is a minor nuisance (i.e. having to have the disk in the drive to use the software) and a major nuisance (i.e. disabling the software altogether after a while). The first will be swallowed grungedly. The latter will cause people to find a way to get around it to use the software they legally bought again.

    If this has any effect, it will make more people search for ways to disable copy protection. It will show people who didn't even think about copying how to do it, how to acquire "cracks" and how to download cracked software.

    And once the initial "work" is done to get a hand on such software, the incentive to keep doing it is immense. It does take some time initially to dig up sources for cracked software, but once you have the source, getting more software without buying for it is fairly trivial.

    So the net effect of crippling DRM methods like this is to drive more people towards cracked soft. Because once you know where to get it, it's easy to get more.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  6. Re:A solution? by Mascot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And not playing is exactly what you'll be doing once they shut down the activation servers.

    What you are doing, in effect, is accepting the fact you're renting a game, but still paying full price for it.

    I for one won't accept that. Either slice the prices down to rental levels, or let me actually own the game I buy. They're doing a great job not getting my money. Not such a great job keeping me from enjoying the games. If they ever change their minds and want my money after all, they know what to do.

  7. I just bought this game Sunday night... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    I picked this up from Target Sunday night after a buddy of mine told me that it was out for the PC. I came home and installed it...

    I think it took 4 hours to decompress 9GB off of the DVD. I'm not sure, I ended up falling asleep before it completed.

    So, Monday night, I came home from work to play it. What a pain in the ass.

    a. needs new drivers, but
    b. looks as good as BF 2142 (which worked on my older drivers and ran faster)
    c. we're talkin' "high seas" choppy (12-16 fps) even on 800x600 with linear aliasing and no music.
    d. OTOH BF2142 can run in 1600:900 widescreen at 60 fps.

    Did I mention that it failed to load after (I kid you not) 10 minutes on the splash screen? Apparently, the SecuROM DRM blacklists SysInternal's Process Explorer. Yeah, major hacking tool. Whatever.

    Ok, so, I upgraded drivers, turned off PE and rebooted (!), and fired it up again. Like I mentioned, choppy sound fx and graphics and crazy load times (we're talking no UI response for upwards of 10 minutes).

    Eventually, I did get to "play" for about an hour or so before an uninterruptable cutsceen black-screened-of-death my computer. Why oh why aren't they using industry-standard works-forever Bink video? Or if they are, they've seriously misimplemented it.

    It should go without saying that this game appears to have undergone the most lazy subcontracted porting job from the xbox to the PC.

    Against my better judgement, I'm putting it on the shelf until they release a patch rather than returning it. (Mainly because I don't think Target accepts software returns...)

    Bottom line: I got what I deserved for buying this game without doing any research beforehand. (Surely, this is 2008, and Big-Name games aren't released in a broken state, right? wrong.)

  8. Behold! by pecosdave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The users did purchase their games, but low, the game installer caused much discord. From its discord came much reinstalling. From the reinstalling came excess activations, and from the excess activations came denial. Among the users there was much unrest and gnashing of teeth.

    And it came to pass that the users gathered together and announced their lamentations unto the manufacturer, but the manufacturer heard their lamentations not declaring "For ours is to profit and yours is to consume, for the criminal he doth consume, but from that that the criminal consumes he also copies, and allow others to consume from the results of my minions labor. How doeth it profit us for a criminal to copy, and how doeth I as the provider of my minions labor know that you, and those gathered with you are not a criminals? Nay, not only is it safer for me to lock in the results of my minions by allowing not but three activations, it profits me even more if those activations are squander on unclean install and hardware not fit for supporting our products."

    Then the users hearing this from the manufacturer brought their lamentations unto Slashdot, for Slashdot has a voice which carriers farther than just the voices of the users alone, but the manufactures still heard their lamentations not.

    In the months that followed there was much casting of stones, but the fortress of the manufacturer had high walls and the stones cleared them not. The users then declared "We will trap them within their stone walls, and we will purchase their products not, and in time, when they hunger, they will come forth from their walls and allow us unlimited activations, for they will have empty wallets."

    In this plan there was much wisdom, but the bulk of the users had not the courage to uphold this plan, for they were already committed and could survive without their games not. Among the users was a multitude for which the plan fell upon deaf ears, and money continued to flow to the manufacturer as water flows down a river.

    And it came to pass that a band of users gathered together and gave their lamentations unto the pharacies, and they stated unto the pharacies that for the loss of their wages they were entitled a class action.

    The spies of the manufacturer were many, and the spy among the pharacies reported back to the manufacturer of the news of class action. It was then that the manufacturer relented, not of wisdom, or of kindness, but of cowardice, for the manufacturer loves his purse and the money which it contains and wanted to part with that the he has already obtained not, prefer instead to risk the reduction of that which comes in by way of bandit interception.

    The users upon hearing this declared that it was good, and their activations were good until the end of days.

    --
    The preceding post was not a Slashvertisement.
  9. It's EA... by BulletMagnet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Is anyone REALLY that surprised?

    Note to John Riccitiello and the meatheads at EA: Take a page from Brad Wardell and the folks at Stardock Entertainment - DRM doesn't work - his words were....

    "Blaming piracy is easy. But it hides other underlying causes. When Sins (of the Solar Empire) popped up as the #1 best selling game at retail a couple weeks ago, a game that has no copy protect whatsoever, that should tell you that piracy is not the primary issue."

    I love SotSE and it's about as hassle-free of a game as it gets. WHY does nobody else other then Wardell and his group get this?

  10. That's the magic of DRM. by raehl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So true... people still hack the software to make it work, but those trying to follow the straight and narrow get nothing but grief. How is this a good thing?

    DRM is not about getting people who were not paying for something to pay for it.

    It's about getting people who were paying for something to pay for it twice.

    For example, I downloaded a couple ring tones for my phone. Phone died. I replaced the phone with EXACTLY THE SAME MODEL, but even though I was able to back up and restore all my contacts and other information, the ring tones did not transfer because there's some weird DRM on them.

    So now if I want my ringtones back, I have to buy them AGAIN, and apparently every time I replace my phone. How stupid is that?

    1. Re:That's the magic of DRM. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I think the stupid part here is that you bought ringtones.

    2. Re:That's the magic of DRM. by soundguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the stupid part is USING ringtones. No one wants to hear anyone else's crappy taste in music. Everyone needs to put their phones on vibrate and STFU!

      --
      Nothing worthwhile ever happens before noon