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A Few Firefox 3 Followups
An anonymous reader writes "Using data generated by the Mozilla Firefox download pledge page, the map on this blog post ranks countries, not by absolute number of pledges made, but rather on a per capita basis. This analysis yields some interesting conclusions about where open source is strongest and weakest."
Anonymous Warthog writes "That didn't take long. In a blog posting from the TippingPoint DVLabs security team (of Kraken and CanSecWest hacking contest fame), they confirmed that they reported a vulnerability in Firefox 3.0 to Mozilla a mere five hours after it was released. Additionally, there was a posting on the Full Disclosure security mailing list from someone that purports to have another vulnerability in the works as well. In the grand scheme of things, this probably means nothing to the general security of Firefox, but you can be sure the browser zealots on all sides will be watching carefully."
Finally, from reader Toreo asesino: "Microsoft have congratulated the Mozilla team by sending them their second cake (minus recipe) to Mozilla's Mountain View headquarters to congratulate them on shipping FireFox 3, which went live right on time last night." Congratulations are indeed due on both the browser and the release process — looks like the Firefox fever (despite some seriously taxed servers) resulted in more than 8 million downloads in 24 hours.
I gave up yesterday after a few too many server errors.
That said, the map of countries is pretty cool. Ignoring the island micro-nations (the Falkland Islands won with 2% of 3000 people pledging to download), it's interesting to see how high Firefox penetration is in Eastern Europe. I wonder if that's a function of very connected economies without a lot of love for Microsoft and a strong desire for free software?
Oh, and good luck to the Firefox team trying to save the "E" logo from this year's cake! That thing is HUGE!
What happened to backslash?
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Don't bash it if you haven't used it. FF3 will do it's best to migrate all the add-ons and stuff you have on FF2. If the add-on isn't compatible, it will tell you when it is.
Adobe has routinely hit greater than 10 million downloads per day.
There are other companies as well. Hell, what about MS updates? How many of those bastards get downloaded on Patch Tuesday?
This is a fake attempt at a record.
The map referred to in the summary is already slashdotted - that, or I'm having troubles with my internet connection. Both are equally likely...
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
...and indeed everyone that contributed towards FireFox project. You have set the bar very high for others to follow, and more importantly, you have proved that OSS model can be both financially prosperous and highly desirable to normal users too.
And at the end there was cake too!
throw new NoSignatureException();
THE CAKE IS A LIE.
Nah. It saves all that stuff for you. It even saved my session from FF2 to FF3.
This browser is much more responsive than FF2. My performance in Gmail is much improved. The memory leak was not fixed, but it was finally addressed it seems. The memory usage still creeps up very high, but it takes much longer to reach the point of a performance hit than before. The memory leak was/is my biggest issue with FF and as far as I can tell with FF3, it may be only a minor annoyance... which I am happy to have when compared to the numerous Force Quits needed per day with FF2.
Invexi - a Phoenix, AZ based web design and web development company.
Hey! Guess what, Einstein! It's FREE! So if you've tried Open Source and don't like it, then it's really no great loss to you, is it?
I mean you show up at their website when all kinds of news outlets are running stories about firefox download day and the website doesn't even say that download day starts at 1 EST. What kind of amature shit is that?
Yes, they underestimated demand and probably have a little egg on their faces. But Firefox WORKS! And it's FREE! So what's your problem?
Oh, and it's spelt "amateur".
Then you finally download it and it's full of security holes. What the fuck?
No, it has A security hole. It will be fixed. Someone will find more holes. They will be fixed. So don't use it. Whatever the hell works for you.
I put more effort in to jacking off than these clowns put in to their "Record Download Day". What an embarassment.
Perhaps this explains your short-sightedness and/or blinkered vision. And your obvious frustration. Maybe keep it in your trousers for one day, see if you feel better then, eh?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
"The server is temporarily unable to service your request due to maintenance downtime or capacity problems. Please try again later. "
I guess the cake is a lie ?
My UID is prime and so is this number: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0.
FF3 is almost infinitely better than 1.5 and 2 in terms of performance, stability, and memory usage. However, there are still some niggling performance issues that make me tear my hair out. Still, from someone who is most definitely NOT a FF fanboi, it's actually their best release by far and worth checking out.
Should they have waited when there were no bugs?
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
I managed to get connected; but the map is kinda boring; just black on white.
Strangely, it also looks exactly like the letters "Error establishing a database connection".
Well of course there was no recipe-- that cake was a proprietary, closed-source dessert.
Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
Since the vulnerablility also affects FF 2.x, I'd say whoever discovered the problem waited to disclose the issue to rain on Mozilla's parade. So waiting to release 3.0 would have been pointless since the Mozilla team didn't know about issue.
Posted in 2006, and that's about 50 years in computer time.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power lost.
Amen to that. Too many apps distributed in tar.gz format have no instructions with them (or on the website). How hard is it to include the following lines of instructions (preferably near the download link):
1. First you should check your OS repositories to ensure you cannot install this program via that method. Search for: blah
2. If the program is not available in your distro's repositories (or you desire a newer version)
a. Download the following tar.gz file to your HDD
b. Move the downloaded file to the location you wish to install it
c. Open a command window and type:
blah -xyz filname.....
3. To launch the program type "blah"
About your 2nd question though. I would go ahead and select "Bookmarks" -> "Bookmark all tabs" and save them in 1 folder. Then if it works and your session is still there you just need to delete that folder. Else, just go to your bookmarks and right click on the folder you created and select "Open all in tabs".
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Really, if you didn't have the story behind the photo, you'd think that the IE Team was congratulating itself for shipping IE.
Memo to MS: When you give someone a cake, it only makes sense to put the RECIPIENT's name on the cake. I mean, you're recognizing the shipping of Firefox. Why didn't you put a Firefox logo on the cake? That's the object of the celebration.
One of the strengths of Firefox for some time has been that right out of the box, the binary just ran on lots of Linux versions. With FF3 (starting with betas) they broke this.
A non-trivial portion of the commercial and research Linux user base has to stick with EL4 or a source rebuild from CentOS, Scientific Linux or whatever because of third party tool support requirements. And not everybody wants to upgrade their OS just because a new browser is out.
FF3 requires a pretty new library (libpangocairo 1.0). I spent an hour trying to come up with it this afternoon for my 100+ users. No luck so far.
The firefox team really let us down big time. We've been anxiously awaiting this release because it's supposed to solve the memory bloat problems (several of us here have to restart the browser several times a week because it's consumed insane amounts of RAM).
Nah. Classic Microsoft.
They set DefaultLogo OnCake to "Blue-E".
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Obviously, the Firefox team wanted the servers to go down by all this. "Firefox Servers Down Because Of Massive Downloads" is a great headline to give the project more exposure. Getting in the news is what this whole action has been about from the start.
Pretty good is actually pretty bad.
Speaking of internet browsing, Opera 9.50 just came out as well. Has full text history search and my favorite feature...Opera Sync. I opened 10 of the same internet sites with Opera and Firefox 3 and compared the memory imprint, FF3 was 10 mb greater. Opera was already configured to grab a ton of my RSS feeds, so I believe without RSS feeds bein pulled 9.50 could have had a good 20 mb on ff3.
Just wanted to shed some light on a lesser known, but in my opinion, very good browser.
Trying to install linux on my microwave, but keep getting a kernel panic...
Let's see, Firefox:
- Can render many different doctypes: HTML 4.01 traditional, HTML 4.01 Strict, XHTML 1.0 Strict, XHTML 1.1, RSS, etc, etc, etc
- Includes a Javascript interpreter
- Has its own platform-independent GUI drawing code, and those widgets are designed to match the native widgets on each platform
- Supports UTF-8 and many, many other character encodings.
- Stores bookmark and preference data in a RDBMS (not a very capable one, admittedly, but still)
- Has a plugin framework
- Runs on virtually every OS that is still in use
- Is very friendly to web developers (e.g., supports neat stuff like Firebug)
- And a zillion other features.
This is a serious piece of work, under active development. The fact that they were able to add more features, plus stability, plus better memory management, plus better security handling (like seriously addressing XSS), PLUS address many of those only-a-problem-for-technical-twits issues that are out there says to me that the Firefox development team really has their shit together. This is an application that I have open all day, every day, and for me, it works great.(of course, I'm currently posting using Safari, so YMMV)
Oh, 8 million all set to exploit? What was the marketshare for Windows again? 91.13% according to Wikipedia. Now figuring that there are around 1.2 billion Internet users which figures to at least that many computer users. I would have to say that the odds are higher of exploiting one of the many flaws in IE which is slower to patch and who's users are computer newbies. With Firefox whenever a toolbar somehow pops up most people know something bad has happened, with IE it is seen as "just something a computer does". Oh and don't forget OS versions, I bet that a lot of the people downloading it were Linux/Mac users and they are harder to exploit to run malicious code on (yes you can destroy the home directory and perhaps add in a keylogger but that is about it).
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
And, since then, Safari for Windows came out.
Business. Numbers. Money. People. Computer World.
Every software has bugs, be it written by Microsoft, Mozilla, the Hacker living in his mom's basement, or even by RMS or Linus Torvalds. It is a fact of computers. Now the good thing is, a fix will be released quickly, and if you really feel like it you can patch it yourself, compare that to IE, Opera, or Safari*. Basically, no development method is perfect, but open source comes close to eliminating all the bugs and if you are complaining then write up a patch.
*Yes, yes I know the core of Safari is WebKit which was forked from KHTML and you can get the source to that
Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
see the cached page:
http://eaves.ca.nyud.net:8090/2008/06/18/firefox-pledge-map-pledges-as-a-of-population/
Math is beautiful... e^(pi*i)+1=0
"June 17, 2028. Firefox 2.9.948 released. Soon we'll go to 3.0 RC1!"
And why am I suddenly reminded of WINE?
Buyers for computer parts often have to keep lots of tabs open.
Anyone doing research that cannot be finished immediately needs to keep tabs open.
I'm very tempted to switch; I am particularly eager to get the enhanced javascript performance.
But I installed the Beta on my son's machine, and was shocked at the 'awesomebar'. What a monumentally bad idea, implemented in the most annoying of fashion! It is seriously the one factor keeping me from switching.
Evidently there used to be configuration options to turn it off in the about:config window, but those have been removed, in a nearly microsoftian attempt to force users into behaving how the designers wish. There is an ad-in I found that reduces the awesomebar so that it looks similar to the Firefox 2.0 version, but it still searches 'intelligently', i.e. unpredictably and unintuitively.. Is there any fix for this due out?
The other thing holding me back is firebug... does that have a 3.0 enabled version out yet?
Has anyone else had the mysterious "cookies disappearing" problem?
Neither of the RC's, or the Beta 5 that I tried had this problem. I have googled and it seems a few other people are having the same problem, but I've yet to find a fix.
It's really quite annoying. I've tried loading up in Safe Mode (no extensions), but even then my cookies just "vanish", seemingly after a random amount of time. I'm also having a problem with Foxmarks (endlessly syncing but not actually syncing), but I guess the Foxmarks devs will bang that one out soon.
Overall my followup is I'm not too impressed. Might just go back to RC2...
Sex. Drugs, and Unix.
Maybe they want to try to beat the download record again, when all those people come looking for the patches.
I told you so! So now we have what? 8 million suddenly vulnerable machines?
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Corale cache worked for me, but it seems sluggish now.
downloaded version
Lameness filter prevented me from pasting in the text.
First they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then they send you a cake.
Then you pay your ISP for 8 million downloads.
Then you profit???
What are we doing again?
You've posted references to or versions of this little diatribe three times in this thread. This is rather tiring, because the only reference I see you making to any actual Bugzilla entries is in a post from over two years ago. Of the two bugs you reference in that post, one is marked "fixed" and the other "invalid".
Now normally I would request that you either give us links to actual bugs that are outstanding. But I'm not going to do that, because I know you can't be objective when discussing this issue.
How do I know this? Because the bug marked "invalid" appears to be submitted by you. Thus I suspect that your vitriol for the Firefox/Mozilla people is a personal response to feeling scorned or something, and I'm not going to waste my time arguing with someone who argues because they had their feelings hurt and therefore holds an irrational grudge about something.
So just don't use it.
No one's holding a gun to your head. If it's causing you such pain just use another browser.
Where did that come from? You guys need to get a life.
Isn't this one of the reason that bit torrent exists?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
A lot of the complaints about the Awesomebar have been that bookmarks which have not been visited show up in the results. Luckily, there is now an extension to make the Awesomebar show history only.
Also, if you are not sure what the point of the Awesomebar is, Mike Beltzner recorded an informative 2-minute screencast showcasing what the Awesomebar can do.
Finally, Support Firefox Day is this Friday, which will include interactive video workshops and Q&A about the new bookmarks features. Several Mozilla developers will be in attendance, so it is a great chance to voice your opinions. The new bookmarks and history API is very flexible, so extensions will no doubt make it better.
I'm not trying to belittle your problems and I am in no way affiliated with Mozilla or Firefox, but on the dozen of machines I use regularly I have never seen the problem you describe. Even though I regularly have twenty, thirty, or more tabs open at a time, and have lots of extensions installed, and leave FF open for the entire day.
And I haven't seen FF crash. Never. On any of those machines. Apart from your little report, and the link (which conveniently points to another posting by you(!)), I haven't heard of people complaining about it either.
The way you repeat the same accusations (at least) four times in the space of two screens, and offer no proof at all beyond that link to your own message, suggests very strongly that you have an agenda. Your bug report 222660 (yes, I read your text!) doesn't contain any "easily reproducable steps", it actually reads
Reproducible: Always
Steps to Reproduce:
1.
2.
3.
Do you call that a bugreport? No wonder it gets marked as invalid. Similarly, your list of articles fails to convince: some pointers to decreasing the cache size is not proof of a usability-destroying bug in the application.
Also, next time just say "...when I'm browsing porn". We all know what you mean with "performing research" anyway...
Please understand why MS sends the cakes!
The cakes doesn't mention Firefox or Mozilla in any way, but very clearly IE. Hence, MS sends the cakes not to congratulate Mozilla, but to get Mozilla to advertise for IE.
Very clever move by MS!
In all honesty though, I use Firefox all the time on all the computers, PC and Mac, and I use gmail, and I've never seen my memory use go above 200M (usually around 150M). And even if I can get the memory usage to go up by opening 20 tabs full of pages with huge images, together with gmail, I don't get a CPU spike.
In fact, I've never gotten a CPU spike. None of the friends I have that use FF got a CPU spike, ever.
So, I hope you can see the problem here. Many people use FF and never experience what you're talking about. In fact, every time I read it, I think it's just trolls bullshitting. I hope someone can post a video of a computer with FF3 suffering from that bug so we can have proof that the bug exists. I don't think it's a real bug.
But let's say it is real. This bug, since it occurs in corner cases, is going to be hard to fix. It will be hard to find. It probably has to do with multi-threaded code and data sharing between threads, or it has to do with garbage collector. Either way, it's not easy.
Let's talk about other browsers now. I won't bother with IE. Let's take Opera. I use Opera Mini 4 all the time. That piece of shit has bugs and breaks all the time for me. The only reason I use it is because it's better than the built-in browser, which works better than Opera, but gives me a bookmark list that's controlled by my phone carrier, which I don't want. So because I want to control my own bookmarks, I have to use Opera on my blackberry. Clearly Opera is no angel. I am a very unsatisfied Opera user. And how hard is it to fix a bug in an app that's only 130kb long? EH?? Should be cake, right? Opera Mini does crappy rendering on many pages and the most annoying thing is that sometimes it loses my feeds or breaks them so that I have to reinstall them. And there are usability issues, such as when I want to search Google, I have to click way too many times for comfort (why can't I use the enter key, once? Why do I have to click to start typing, then type, then click to open a menu and select "OK", then scroll down to search button and again click on it... why ????? WTF OPERA??).
I think Mozilla does a fine, fine job. That they can't please a certain vocal minority is understandable. And the constant "angel" example of Opera is pure bullshit.
That's hilarious, I was going to say exactly the same thing to you!
Web2.0: I love when people Flickr my cuil and digg my boingboing until my google is reddit and I start to yahoo
Is the awesomebar and the URLs it quick-fetches(?) customizable?
Sounds nice but it could be annoying (and potentially embarassing).
From what you say, I'd actually want to keep my history so it already recognizes my surfing habits (if I understood correctly...).
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
In any case, people who are aware of lesser known browsers like Opera, Safari, Elinks, and Konqueror probably won't use user agent sniffing, and good riddance.
This is here so you don't ignore the last two lines of my posts.
Let me recap your understanding of a "clever move": sending a big cake to a rivaling company with the logo of your own application (which comes with ~90% of the world's desktop OS) on it, to get free advertising.
Clever. Yea, I can see it now.
laxatives!
I'm not trying to justify the GP's whinge, I've found FF 1 & 2 crash every few days on me. And while it's a fairly regular occurance, I can't reproduce it on demand.
I'm guessing it's a JS error, as it usually crashes when I'm browsing DeviantART (it's a pretty JS heavy site).
FF crashed on me so often, I returned to Seamonkey. I'm now trying FF3, and will see how that goes. My initial impression is good.
Oh come on. It's a friendly gesture by the IE team. It's the higher ups and the marketing people who are evil.