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Twilight Hack Defeats Wii Menu Update 3.3

Posted by kdawson on from the say-goodnight-gracie dept.

Croakyvoice writes "Only days after Nintendo shipped Wii Menu 3.3, which stopped the Twilight Hack from working, the team lead by Bushing brought out a new version of the Homebrew enabling hack for the Nintendo Wii using the Zelda Game and a hacked save game."

32 of 199 comments (clear)

  1. open works better by drDugan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    when will these companies get it - if done well, open systems work better in a globally connected world.

    billions of monkeys typing on computers will inevitably create a small handful that can and will consistently break your closed source world.

    1. Re:open works better by The+End+Of+Days · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd have to say Nintendo has the entire open source world beat hands down so far as gaming is concerned.

    2. Re:open works better by The+Ultimate+Fartkno · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Unfortunately, due to decades of contentious lawsuits and complaints from cranky customers, companies have been forced to lock down their hardware to make sure that there are really no variables that exist in the system that could disturb the lowest common denominator consumer. Yes, it would be nice if everything we bought was unlocked, open, hackable, and mod-able to the nth degree, but that also opens the door to the one thing that no mainstream consumer will accept - instability. The average person buying some sort of tech gizmo would run screaming for the hills if there was a sticker on the box that said "Now look, there is a *ton* of potential in your new Swankbox 32X, but occasionally it's going to go down when we try something new. You'll just have to deal with it, but we swear that when it comes back up it'll just be AWESOME!"

      How bad would it be if someone hacked / modded your amazing new console / hdtv / gizmo and added a feature that made it the absolutely kick-ass, must-have item of the year... *but* there was a bit of legwork involved and a 10% chance that you could brick the unit. How many failures would it take before the bad press was enough to sink you?

      The vast majority of the people out there buying stuff just want to pay, plug, and play. That means standards, simplicity, and - unfortunately - lockdown.

    3. Re:open works better by mrsteveman1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't believe what you just said represents 2 mutually exclusive paths, things can be open and stable at the same time.

      Your lowest common denominator consumer isn't going to be screwing with the system, so the fact that its open and not locked doesn't affect them, certainly it won't suddenly make their system unstable, remember most people don't hack around in these things.

      The real push here is to prevent any perceived piracy risk by preventing backups from playing.

    4. Re:open works better by Drinking+Bleach · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sony's PlayStation 3 encourages you to run custom software on it, but it's not helping their case very much :P

    5. Re:open works better by dissy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The vast majority of the people out there buying stuff just want to pay, plug, and play. That means standards, simplicity, and - unfortunately - lockdown. I have to call bullshit and a half on this line of reasoning.

      Lets go with a famous slashdot car analogy, that happens to fit perfectly well.

      My car's hood is not locked requiring a special key that only the dealer has.
      I personally however am not mechanically inclined enough to do much more than check fluids in my car. I *do* take it to a mechanic to have it worked on. I am like your wii's lowest common denominator except for cars.

      Now, add lock down. A special key is required to open the hood. Only the dealers have these keys.
      Suddenly, every single person that liked tinkering under the hood is screwed. They have to resort to quasi-legal methods to do with their property as they wish. Those people know better than to call the dealer expecting a replacement when they know it was them monkeying with it that broke it.

      I however am not affected by this change. My car still runs, and the procedure is basically the same, other than I have to go to the original dealer and get raped by their 10x higher prices, but since my usual mechanic wont have the key, i get screwed too in a way.

      Leaving the wii unlocked to modding can't possibly effect the people who will not be modding it!
      It only prevents those of us who want to do with our property as we wish, from being able to do so.

    6. Re:open works better by Brigade · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Wow .. you just described my absolute hatred of Apple and their philosophy.

      What you have here is two distict, yet separate groups:

      The idiot-proof, lowest-common-denominator, who wants things to work (and simply).
      The more adventurous, possibly more knowledgeable individuals who like options.

      I will NEVER purchase an iAnything. Why? Because I like to tweak, tinker, and have options. That's why I have an 8GB Nokia that uses a standard USB port to talk to any computer (and the phone says "What do you want me to be? A USB HDD? Maybe Sync with your phone software? How about a normal MP3 player?"), a Creative Zen for MP3s/Videos on the go, and a PC.

      The problem with a locked-down, "Do it our way only" philosophy is it encourages laziness and contentment. How many of us got curious, or felt adventurous enough, to tinker with something technological (broken or not) just to figure out how it works (or even make it better or more suited to our needs)? Which, through trial and error, only encouraged us to venture out further and learn even more when our curiousity was piqued? If we never had the oportunity to break something or toy with the horizons on our own, we'd never be as knowledgeable in a technological fashion as we are. (Referring here to fellow /.'ers).

    7. Re:open works better by LS · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I have no idea how this got modded insightful. Saying that opening a system makes it unstable is like saying that removed locks from the doors of a house will make it fall down. The stability of a system is correlated with its quality, not whether it is open or not.

      LS

      --
      There is a fine line between being a cultivated citizen and being someone else's crop. - A. J. Patrick Liszkie
    8. Re:open works better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Sorry, but you sound like a marketing person. I take issue with both statement that you make:

      1)"...no mainstream consumer will accept - instability"

      2)"due...to lawsuits..companies have been forced to lock down their hardware"

      Counter Argument:
      1) They have already. Windows computers, pda's, IPods, you name it, lots of things these days need firmware upgrades or better even get obsoleted by a follow up model, that provides better stability. However, companies have given up on preparing products to stability before product release. And many consumers are willing to trade flexibility and 'cutting edge' against stability.

      2) I disagree that it is lawsuits that force the lockdown or feature reduction. Usually it is some marketing person deciding how to best target consumer groups and setting features accoring to pricing. Examples: Ipods, cellphones, digital cameras (esp. powershot), gps (hello TomTom). All of these devices have a reduced feature set because there are pricier models out there that are only really differing in software, while the hardware is essentially the same. In summary the lockdown is to achieve marketer's model and price policy, not to prevent lawsuits. Disclaimers are sufficient to prevent lawsuits.

      I am advocating much more open source and openness on the side of consumer product manufacturers. You are truely differentiating your products by building communities of 'nerds' who strive to squeeze out every last bit of functionality and performance out of your hardware and they can do it much better than your programmers could ever do. This will generate more interest in the products and allow for real 'cult' products without much advertising and fake hype. There are lots of examples in software, whole eco systems developed around games, programming languages, databases... Why not digital cameras, GPS's, etc? The potential is there, you just have to foster it.

    9. Re:open works better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      There's no reason the manufacturer couldn't just add some note saying they do not offer support once the device is unlocked and that you do so at your own risk.

      So it voids the warranty, fine. Sometimes you have to void the warranty to mod a console anyway and most people are aware of this when they do it.

      Why bother making it so hard for those that want to unlock it?

      You know a good example of a gizmo that comes unlocked? It's called a PC. Is the warranty on a Dell computer void if I take windows off and use a Linux distro? I don't think it is. Would I expect Microsoft to offer support for my Linus machine? No. Would I expect Dell to offer support for my hardware? Yes. :P

    10. Re:open works better by Dragonslicer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My car's hood is not locked requiring a special key that only the dealer has. Because your car requires maintenance every few months that involves opening the hood. If a Wii needed a refill on magic smoke every three months, you'd have an opening in the box so that you could get to the magic smoke tank.
    11. Re:open works better by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It also wouldn't mean more illegal copies. Mr. Average doesn't "mod" his console for the same reason he buys his games: It's easier, more convenient and doesn't require technical knowledge.

      All you'd have to do is make sure that playing illegal copies requires you to know what you're doing and make it nontrivial to do. The reason why there is a market for game copies on the PC is that it's convenient (due to copy restrictions and "CD must be in the drive" crap, often more convenient than using the original).

      Now, it doesn't get more convenient on a console than using an original. Slip in the CD and play. Since there is no install part, even the CD requirement isn't a deterrent.

      OTOH, don't forget that most console manufacturers earn a sizable portion of their income from licensing fees to those that want to produce for their consoles. I doubt they'd readily drop this source of income.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:open works better by xtracto · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The real push here is to prevent any perceived piracy risk by preventing backups from playing.

      It is funny to read comments in slashdot where people is talking out of their asses.

      The "real push" has nothing to do with preventing piracy. The Twilight patch does *not* provide a way to play pirate Wii titles (so called "back-ups"), the way to accomplish that is witi a mod chip (which interfaces with the disk drive).

      Therefore, the upgrade did not prevented "back-ups" from being played. It just tried to prevent the execution of the Zelda exploit.

      That was a very specific attack against homebrew, given that even after upgrading, you can continue to play your "back-ups" if you have a mod-chip

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    13. Re:open works better by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Indeed, I don't own a PS3 and never will.

      In the battle between curiosity (will it mod?) and integrity (it's a Sony), integrity won.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    14. Re:open works better by billcopc · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I must say that homebuilt x86 PC's are much more tinker-friendly than Apple PC's That's only true if you used tinker-friendly components, primarily the motherboard and ram.

      Cheap board + cheap ram = no tinkering
      Cheap board + awesome ram = might not even boot!
      Awesome board + cheap ram = limited tinkering
      Awesome board + awesome ram = the sky's the limit

      Case in point: I have two PC models, both have the same base performance. One costs $775, the other costs $1125 - for the math-challenged, that's a $350 difference. Same CPU, same amount of ram, same-sized hard disk. The cheap one does not overclock, the fancy one can tweak just about everything and has plentiful avenues for expandability with extra PCIE slots, SATA ports and back-panel connectors of all kinds.

      Remember, by default the expensive unit isn't any faster than the cheap one, and the only way you can get value out of that extra $350 is if you're overclocking and/or water cooling, adding a second video card, or a bunch of hard drives.

      A homebuilt PC can be made to suck every bit as much as a brand name PC, you just have to be as cheap as the big guys.

      --
      -Billco, Fnarg.com
    15. Re:open works better by osu-neko · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't normally comment on people's sigs, but since you brought it up, his sig is actually kinda stupid.

      Suppose I have a friend who constantly harps on how he can fix anything on his own car and how everyone should learn how to perform regular maintenance on their own cars and save themselves money at service stations for things they could do themselves. He does this for years, constantly harping on it. And then one day, we discover he can't even change his own oil. I myself don't change my own oil, so is it ironic that I give him heck over it? Not really. I don't change my own oil, but I never said I did. He was the one always claiming it's what made him better. Nothing wrong with me decrying his dishonesty merely because I myself don't do what he claimed he was doing.

      Microsoft constantly harps on its innovation, and resists any attempt to enforce the law of the land upon them as restricting their "freedom to innovate". That opens them up for anyone to criticize them on the fact that, in fact, they don't innovate. There's nothing ironic about people who don't innovate decrying someone else's dishonesty on the subject.

      The fact is, both Microsoft and GNU copy ideas they see elsewhere right and left. The difference is, the GNU people are honest about it, as the sig itself acknowledges when it notes that it's their stated goal. Indeed, the GNU people have a philosophy that says this is a good idea -- when someone comes up with a better way of doing things, we should all learn from it and enjoy the benefits of this new idea. The Microsoft people say people shouldn't be allowed to do this. And the irony is, some idiots decry the GNU people for pointing out that Microsoft is doing it anyway, doing exactly what they're doing, all the while claiming to be "innovative" for doing it and criticizing others for doing the same. That's the real irony.

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
  2. They now charge for the Internet Channel by QuantumG · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For a while, Opera was giving away their browser for Wii users. Now you have to pay if you want to access the Internet using your Wii, and Opera is your only choice. There's been some talk about Firefox on the Wii but, as far as I can tell, that's all it is: talk.

    So yeah, buying a Wii (and most every other console) is just buying a pair of handcuffs.

    Hopefully PCs will never ever be this locked down.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I will say (and I will say it anonymously, as even the vaguest breath of this opinion is karmic suicide on Slashdot), your sense of entitlement is quite overinflated. You seem to be under the impression that anything with silicon in it must be open to hacking and supported in such a hackable state by the manufacturers . If you can't run $os_of_choice on it for God only knows what reason (you haven't run it enough on your PC?), it is not only Flawed(tm) but immoral.

      Seriously. It's a game console. It's not a $250 shortcut to a PC. Why on earth do you (I mean you, specifically, apparently an ardent PC user) want a web browser on a console? You can't just use a console to play games and a PC to do work?

      And if you ARE one of the elusive homebrewers who actually want to make new games for the Wii (not Yet Another Damned Emulator), you are aware that the Wiimote's had fairly stable drivers for most major operating systems for some time now? I mean, if you actually want to develop for the Wii's unique features, I can get behind that the whole way. It's just that you don't need to hack the Wii to do so.

      Just my opinion. While everyone else is struggling to figure out how to play old games from their past consoles on the Wii (in addition to their PC, XBox360, PS3, etc, etc), I'm having fun playing Wii games on the Wii and doing work on my rather a bit open PC.

    2. Re:They now charge for the Internet Channel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Opera used to cost $30, or you could use an ad supported version for free, if I remember correctly.

  3. Re:Score by Yvan256 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The crack had to be updated, so Nintendo's patch did work against the attack (the first).

    If you only count a point when Nintendo resists, than you also only count one point for all the versions of the crack.

    So it's either Nintendo 1, Hackers 2 or Nintendo 0, Hackers 1.

  4. Nintendo's intentions by grantek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You know, I don't think Nintendo were really serious about "blocking homebrew on the Wii once and for all" with this update. From what I've read the system files were datestamped months ago, implying rigorous testing and a philosophy above all of not bricking any wiis even where the exploit was installed. Given that effort, I don't think they could have been stupid enough to think they were permanently closing anything. I think it's just a token effort to say they disapprove of doing things the non-Nintendo way (a fair enough position if you're proud of your product), and maintaining a healthy level of FUD about third-party code that isn't based on any official API for the wii.

    1. Re:Nintendo's intentions by Original+Replica · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They said that homebrew save files will be deleted, publicly, prior to providing the update link; they basically said "We're going to eliminate anything that could cause system instability, so if you want to keep it, transfer it to an external device. We really don't want to brick your console." ...All in all, Nintendo generally seems intelligent about this sort of thing. They're trying to balance the happiness of the power-users and modders with their corporate interests

      Nintendo is still keeping in mind what makes the Wii so successful, fun. They know that modding is fun, they know that bricking a console in anti-fun.

      --
      We are all just people.
  5. Re:What can you do with this hack? by cigawoot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously. Because a lot of times "homebrew" is merely a code word for "illegally copied games" (oh, wait.. let's call them "backups", yeah.. that sounds much better).

    If it allows you to write your own software for the Wii (is there an SDK publicly available?).. well, then we're talking and this is something to get excited about.

    1) Homebrew doesn't mean "illegally copied games."

    2) There is a sort of crude SDK out there, google it.

    Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

  6. What is the point? by Werrismys · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why do ppl insist on hacking PSP, Wii, etc? They are closed platforms. You don't lie closed - just don't buy them. Especially PSP hacking seems troublesome enough to avoid the thing altogether

    --
    'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
    1. Re:What is the point? by Fross · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because people like modifying things and see what they can make them do. This is the hacker ethic.

      Make your car go faster? Or run on vegetable oil perhaps? Changing your fridge into a computer cooling system? Messing with a synthesizer's innards to get some sounds it never had before? Improving an item by doing something with it the original manufacturers never considered.

      For any reason from souping-up, to making it more envrionmentally friendly, to just off-the-wall crazy, hacking is about repurposing something because it suits you. It's inventing, innovation, creativity. If you can't see the point in these, then you don't understand hacking and I wonder what you're doing here.

      For the Wii and PSP specifically, they are awesome platforms (and unique in their features), which inspire people. They are obviously having ideas for games, or uses for the consoles, that they are not available commercially. These homebrew guys have to work their own way in as the manufacturers have chosen to make dev kits and release methods prohibitively expensive (tens of thousands of dollars), so kudos to them for doing so. I hope they continue to use homebrew to make the next great set of applications and games.

      If you want a comparison of how a manufacturer can get it right, look at what is going to happen with iPhone development over the next 6 months. With a free SDK and cheap way to distribute apps commercially, there will be a LOT of people eager to join in, and Apple will get a ton of apps and even some revenue, from doing this.

      Whether the companies embrace homebrew or not, it will always be there one way or another. They should recognise it as a pool of talent and creativity and allow it the space to grow.

    2. Re:What is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The GP2x, which is pretty much a homebrew-friendly PSP with a touch screen that runs Linux, has been selling rather well for such a niche product.

    3. Re:What is the point? by Spad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because it's there.

  7. Re:What can you do with this hack? by yamiyasha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Please, before you open your mouth understand that not all homebrewers are pirates. We pay for our VC/WiiWare games (or just choose not to use the service). We just want to do MORE then what Nintendo is willing to do, like playing out of region games (Using Gecko Region Free) or other things as people write software, such as a POP3 email client, emulators, Doom, etc.

    How likely are you to buy a VC title when you've already got the ROM file and an emulator running?

    Same as how much I would, if I owned the original cart and the working system
  8. There is no alternative by quadrox · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I would love to rely on open platforms instead of closed ones. The problem is, they don't exist. Except for the PC and probably some very few mobile/other devices there are no open hardware platforms that I can chose over a closed platform, especially with consoles.

    So obviously I'll take the next best closed platform and hack it. I have no choice, because these companies won't give me a choice.

    The only way to make companies sell open platforms is to complain loudly and hack the current systems in order to show them that we want open platforms, or at least viable open alternatives. Just not doing anything is not going to achieve anything.

  9. Re:grumble grumble grumble by neumayr · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You have a point, there aren't many homebrew games worth spending ten hours on. I do think there are more than five though.. But I don't think it's because all those hacks are truly intended for piracy, with homebrew just being an alibi.

    Rather, I think it's for the same reason there aren't all that many opensource games that meet that requirement either. I suppose making games is a very different from making the usual kind of opensource software. It requires more immediate communication, a fixed core team, and, as far as I can tell the biggest problem, it requires artists. Programmers usually aren't very successful when creating their own artwork..

    --
    Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
  10. Re:Only homebrew? by rsmith-mac · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It allows you to do the following:

    1) Play pure homebrew from SD/USB
    2) Play games from other regions on legitimate (pressed) discs
    3) Play pirated Virtual Console/WiiWare games

    And with a ModChip to keep the DVD drive from telling the Wii that a burnt disc is inside:

    4) Play homebrew from burnt discs
    5) Play pirated games with modified files

    For obvious reasons, Nintendo is worried about #3 and #5.

  11. That's a big "nearly" by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would say that "nearly anything that compiles on Linux" classifies as homebrew, don't you? Does rejecting just about anything that depends on OpenGL fall under your "nearly"?