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A Hippocratic Oath For Scientists

grrlscientist writes "In response to what appears to be a growing problem of scientific misconduct, a group of people at the Institute of Medical Science at University of Toronto in Canada wrote a scientist's version of the Hippocratic oath. This oath (which is cited in the story) was recited by all graduate students in the biological sciences at the beginning of the 2007-2008 academic year." This blogger argues that merely reciting an oath is not going to help much when "...the corruption in 'science' is systemic. It is due to corporate science being run according to a business model instead of in accordance to an educational paradigm. It is due to unrestrained corporate greed combined with a tremendous disparity in power and income..."

34 of 366 comments (clear)

  1. Well, I don't see why not ... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 5, Funny

    seeing as how taking oaths has worked so well for doctors, lawyers and Presidents.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by D+Ninja · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. An oath does nothing if the person giving the oath has no morals to begin with.

    2. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'd solve more problems by making MBAs take an ethics oath. It is usually these guys that are driving people to do unethical things in government, research, corporations, etc.

    3. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by special_agent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It was spoken: It is due to unrestrained corporate greed...

      There is no such thing as corporate greed. Just as there is no such thing as a benevolent dictatorship of the proletariat. Rather, there are exploiters and vices which thrive in the vacuum created by weaknesses of the human soul. The belief that human greed in the world can be defeated by replacing corporations with other structures is fallacious.

      --
      "I now inform you that you are too far from reality."
    4. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by adisakp · · Score: 4, Funny

      seeing as how taking oaths has worked so well for doctors, lawyers and Presidents.

      Hey now, the president has already taken a Hypocritic Oath or whatever that thingamaggie is called.

    5. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So you're saying we should replace the hippocratic oath with a pretty picture ?

      Perhaps we simply need criminal sentences for breaking any part of the hippocratic oath. There are obviously problems with that : the democrats will never agree. You cannot take the hippocratic oath and do an abortion or euthanasia, it's out of the question. So that would, by itself, criminalize (and I believe that in the original interpretation would make executing either abortion or euthanasia punishable by death by poisoning, at least that was the ancient Greek way of dealing with violations of the Hippocratic oath)

      Basically the problem is that today's scientists feel totalitarian : they feel entitled to push their view on the data. Obviously both abortion and euthanasia harm patients. You could perhaps defend stopping a treatment, ie disconnecting life-giving equipment as compliant with the hippocratic oath, but euthanasia by actively terminating someone's life does not qualify as "doing no harm".

      The problem is a lot more simple : it is simply not possible to agree on a moral standard with people who have no morals. Until we fix that "little issue", no oath, and certainly no pretty picture, will help.

    6. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by mvdwege · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd solve more problems by taking all MBAs and offer them a smoke.

      In front of a wall.

      Facing a firing squad.

      Mart
      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    7. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by knutkracker · · Score: 5, Interesting

      At the end of my Psychology degree, during our last module, they told us about studies which were generally critical of Psychology, which included the scientific integrity issue. I forget whose study it was (Williams?), but someone had gone to the trouble of contacting a large number of authors of academic papers and had asked for their original data to review it. About half had 'lost' it, and of the rest about 1/3 had made at least one significant error.

      I wondered at the time what could be done about this and whether it would help to write a small open source data-faking program, which would generate random results in line with the what the researcher wanted to find. By making it blatantly easy to massage/fake results (which was rife with the students writing their dissertations and faintly rumoured regarding certain staff), the problem would be hard to ignore as everyone would be under suspicion.

      Obviously this won't make it possible to spot essentially undetectable faked results, but it might place more pressure on scientists to make their results truly verifiable and start a (possibly panicked) discussion about how to maintain credibility, which seeems to currently be based largely on the assumption of good character.

      Or then again I may just be bitter about doing my research properly and not having taken the easy route like everyone else on the course.

      Aargh! Damn Psychology!
      [grasps head]
      Can't...
      stop...
      analysing....
      Gnnnh!

    8. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It does not in the hippocratic oath, perhaps you should read it.

      (Human) life is valued above all else, and specifically it is valued OVER comfort.

      Therefore it is a VERY stretched interpretation that you'll need to allow passive euthanasia. Abortion : terminating one human life for the comfort of another is a definite, loud NO for the hippocratic oath.

      As is active (and let's be honest, passive too) euthanasia.

      Here's the text (which you haven't read) :
      ...

      I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

      To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death.

      Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.

      But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

      I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

      In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

      All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

      If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.

      Note that this leaves one thing open that you're going to disagree with : it indeed allows doctors to carry out the death penalty (even in cases where they do not necessarily agree with the verdict).

      Still in favor of the hippocratic oath ? I know I am though.

    9. Re:Well, I don't see why not ... by EMeta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Seriously, the majority of modern medicine is a series of trade-offs of lesser evils. To give a man antibiotics is to disrupt his helpful bacteria, leaving him more prone to yeast infections. You can take the Hippocratic oath and still perform amputations if need be. Yes, this harms the patient as well, but the idea is least harm. More often than anyone is comfortable with, abortion and euthanasia come as a lesser harm.

      We don't life in a black and white world. Get over it.

  2. Doctors vs. Scientists by Gyga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When a doctor breaks their oath they can no longer practice medicine, what happens if a scientists breaks this oath. They can't study stuff?

    --
    I don't preview or spellcheck.
    1. Re:Doctors vs. Scientists by wizardforce · · Score: 4, Interesting

      there are legal consequences as it is, a scientist's lab notebook is considered a legal document, fudging/lying in this case is already something that has legal consequences. I would imagine that any break of such an oath as the one mentioned in the article would at the least result in it being exceedingly difficult to publish in any journal the least bit reputable and possibly legal action.

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    2. Re:Doctors vs. Scientists by honkycat · · Score: 5, Informative

      To clarify what I think you're saying in a way that may be relevant to the grandparent post, the notebook is not a legal document by simple virtue of being a "scientist's notebook." Rather, a lab notebook can be a legally significant document in some legal proceedings. It is only of value in this context if you can demonstrate a consistent adherence to certain standards.

      For example, if you are attempting to overturn someone else's patent due to your own prior work, your notebook describing and dating your ideas/tests may be of value. If you're able to produce a career's worth of similar notebooks describing your other work, that will lend credibility to the contents of your notebook.

    3. Re:Doctors vs. Scientists by eli+pabst · · Score: 4, Informative

      When a doctor breaks their oath they can no longer practice medicine, what happens if a scientists breaks this oath. They can't study stuff?
      Well currently you're likely to get banned from getting federal grant money and blacklisted with journals, so for all practical purposes you are totally screwed unless you have a few hundred grand lying around to fund your own work.
  3. I pledge not to be a shill or tool by themushroom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You will notice that the original Hipocratic oath was about serving the patient/sick, and didn't include anything about influence by outside parties. You will also notice that this oath is about influence of outside parties, and doesn't include anything about serving science.

    How times have changed.

    1. Re:I pledge not to be a shill or tool by drmerope · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Personally, I was more caught by the blogger's throwaway remarks about "corporate science". The truth in my experience is that academics exaggerate to get grants and manipulate data to publish papers. For instance, a substantial fraction of chemistry research cannot be reproduced because the results shown are a fluke, and the applications of an idea are often grossly exaggerated. For instance, some scientists invented a new alloy which they suggest will revolutionize crumple-zones in cars. This alloy includes palladium, a rare-metal. Indeed so rare, if all the palladium on earth were to be used to make this new alloy, we'd get about a cubic meter of the stuff.

      You just don't get away with this sort of stuff in industry. For instance the famous Bell Labs scientist who falsified his nanotech research. This was then discovered by a competing group at IBM. In industry, scientific fraud is hard b.c. the standards for research go beyond publishing a few page journal article.

    2. Re:I pledge not to be a shill or tool by SiriusStarr · · Score: 5, Informative

      For instance, some scientists invented a new alloy which they suggest will revolutionize crumple-zones in cars. This alloy includes palladium, a rare-metal. Indeed so rare, if all the palladium on earth were to be used to make this new alloy, we'd get about a cubic meter of the stuff.

      What?? Global palladium production was 222 metric tons in 2006 (source). According to the article, this alloy was light enough to float in water. Thus, its density must be less than that of water. Water has a mass of 1 metric ton per cubic meter. Thus, if the alloy were pure palladium, global production could provide for 222 cubic meters annually. I highly doubt that the alloy is pure palladium; in fact, it probably only accounts for a small percentage of the total mass. Do you have some source to cite in defense of your claim? While I agree with your point, I fail to see the reasoning behind this example...
      --
      Fear the penguin.
  4. Party on by TheModelEskimo · · Score: 4, Funny

    I promise never to allow financial gain, competitiveness or ambition cloud my judgment in the conduct of ethical research and scholarship.

    Observation: I am not involved in "ethical research."

    Hypothesis: The rest of that sentence does not apply to me.

    Conclusion: Never been a better time to be an evil scientist. >:-)
  5. mealy mouthed gibberish by Normal_Deviate · · Score: 5, Insightful

    IMO, a much better oath would be "I pledge to face the truth and report it bluntly." The big problem in science is not the isolated cases of harming "the community" (whatever that means) or failing to do enough for your subjects. The big problem is the temptation to get funding and publications by ignoring data that don't fit what you think the editor or government grant committee wants to see. And yes, IAAS. I know of what I speak.

  6. Re:What about for CS and engineering? by mkcmkc · · Score: 5, Funny

    I pledge to not release any code which I have not tested or have reason to believe is incorrect and/or incomplete, unless such code is clearly marked as "Alpha." I once had thoughts like these and I think it's a nice sentiment. I'm convinced now, though, that we simply don't have enough control over our profession to make this fly. We pretty much serve at the whim of businessy/non-technical types that will come in and change our requirements/procedures/schedules/standards/etc at will, and there's really little we can do short of quitting. I thank my lucky stars that I've never worked on a software project that could lead to someone's death (even indirectly, I hope).

    [I once considered a "hobo code" for programmers--obscure symbols that you could mark code or an office with that would mean things like

    • this project is doomed,
    • this project is likely to incur a loss of $100 million as it fails,
    • this project will get people killed,
    • I would be fired if I told the truth about this project,
    • I would be killed if I told the truth about this project,
    • etc.,
    as a warning to other prospective programmers. And yes--I have worked on some really awful projects.]
    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  7. Not much difference by EmbeddedJanitor · · Score: 4, Insightful
    In the old days the medics would have also understood poisons etc and they would have been prone to bribery or other influence to kill their patients (passively or actively).

    If you put your cause first (patients or science), then those external influences lose their power.

    --
    Engineering is the art of compromise.
  8. You can't be serious by v(*_*)vvvv · · Score: 4, Interesting

    FYI The oath:

    I promise never to allow financial gain, competitiveness or ambition cloud my judgment in the conduct of ethical research and scholarship. I will pursue knowledge and create knowledge for the greater good, but never to the detriment of colleagues, supervisors, research subjects or the international community of scholars of which I am now a member. I love how this completely contradicts the basic principles of modern economics and government: The profit motive and market competition. This would make more sense:

    "I won't let profit cloud my judgement, even though profit is the foundation of my existence."

    1. Re:You can't be serious by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The worst thing about it is that quite often the profit motive is what makes people's bosses call them out on their self serving bullshit. If you look at companies where people can't be fired their bosses have much less ability to do that. And the end result is that people can talk their way out of doing anything except for their pet project which doesn't have any customers, or any users except for them and their friends. Everyone knows that it's bullshit, but because they can't be fired people know it's a bad idea to say anything.

      Much like academia, really.

      Seriosly, I'm sick of Americans/Canadians and people from capitalist countries whining on about how the profit motive corrupts things without having experienced a world where it is severly attenuated. Move to Sweden, work in a company there for a while and see how well it works.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  9. Re:To quote the oath by the+phantom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is part of the original or classical oath. I think that you will find that most modern versions leave that line out. See NOVA or medterms.com. The science of medicine has changed quite a bit in the couple of thousand years since Hippocrates' time. The oath has been updated in accordance with modern science.

  10. Re:To quote the oath by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think that is more in line with changes in ethics than science.

    A majority used to think abortion was bad (tho oddly not leaving the child out to die if it wasn't wanted or torturing people in front of children). Now a 50/50 or even 55/45 split exists.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  11. Re:To quote the oath by HadouKen24 · · Score: 5, Informative

    What the prevailing opinion on abortion was depended on time and place. It's not so simple that you can just say "a majority used to think abortion was bad" even in just America. In some places, it was just fine with most people as long as it occurred before the "quickening," the fetus's first movement in the womb. Before that time, the fetus was considered to be part of the woman's body. This attitude was reflected in English common law until the 19th century, when abortion was criminalized--for the health of the mother, rather than the fetus. Abortion remedies were notoriously dangerous.

    The idea that abortion is morally wrong because it destroys the life of the fetus is a reason invented to keep the law in place retrospectively. It was not the intent of those who put the laws into place.

    When Hippocrates invented his eponymous oath, most Greeks were okay with abortion. Its banning of abortion was so odd, in fact, that it prompted some scholars on that basis alone to associate the oath with Pythagoreanism, the one strand of ancient Greek thought known to ban it entirely.

  12. Thoughtless article. by missing_boy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am a scientist, and I know a lot of scientists. The majority of them are hard-working people who love what they do - they are fun, interesting, intelligent and very motivating people. I find that they have more integrity that your average joe, they are ethically concerned about what they do, and they're not in it for the mighty $ (trust me on this one). Go watch yourself in the mirror before you throw another hurtful comment out about something which you know very little. Sheesh.

  13. What widespread lack of ethics? by bornwaysouth · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The summary implies a major problem, although the term 'growing' was used.

    1. No evidence of substantive misuse exists. There is substantive proof of bias (particularly against women succeeding.) This is not scientific fraud. Just scientists being arseholes and using their power to diminish the lives of others.

    2. More reporting of fraud is likely these days. More reporters, and lots of web search engines for them to use. But consider the activity base. Back in the days when I was a scientist, there were about 1 per 1000 of the population. At a guess then, say 2 million scientists in the world right now. (The definition of one will vary, so no exact number is possible.) Even at a absurdly low rate of 1 per 1000 being crooked, that's 2000 bent scientists. Get real. Of course there are a whole bunch of them out there. So what. Do you expect them to be inhuman. Not that would be really horrible.

    3. The oath is a wishy washy load of idealistic crap. "I promise never to allow financial gain, competitiveness or ambition cloud my judgment in the conduct of ethical research and scholarship. I will pursue knowledge and create knowledge for the greater good, but never to the detriment of colleagues, supervisors, research subjects or the international community of scholars of which I am now a member." What species do they think scientists belong to. The astonishing thing in my experience was that scientists were far more ethical than people had any right to expect. The oath allows you to be a complete bastard provided you are engaged in non-thical research and scholarship. It also expects a group driven above all by curiosity to instead be driven by the 'common good'. Well, the atomic bomb was invented for the common good. (Albeit, the common good of one side in a war, but the majority of both sides of the war agreed with having such a bias.)

    4. The oath will achieve nothing. There are already punitive measures in place. Get caught even mildly fudging you data and you cease to be a scientist. For ever. You may get a job washing glassware, but you can forget any position of authority.

    5. I do think the measures in place are inadequate. In the main, they rely on checking on how believable a submitted paper is (peer review), and then whether the science survives. The equivalent of an environmental impact report does not exist. The best you could hope for say, if someone discovered a simple way of isolating out uranium 235 for instance, would be for someone to exterminate the idiot. Do not expect the science community to do it for you. But scientists do have ethics committees, particularly governing the use of animals. They were really picky. (As I got older, I agreed with them.) It wasn't sufficient just to be treating your animals well. The requirement was that you interfere to the least extent possible. Considering science is agnostic, they were in the main, ethical.

    Excuse the rant. Science is about as safe as guns in the community. Strong opinions are not only expected, they should be expressed. But please get my key point. It is much safer having scientists being human than following 'the common good'. The common good will be defined by either a religious power group or a political one. I'd rather have scientists caring for the people around them, and being restricted in their ability to casually affect the lives of others.

  14. Are you serious? by copponex · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyhvHB62ph8&NR=1

    "After a thorough examination of every member of the group, the medical specialist stated, 'It is my opinion, that the ears, nose, throat, and accessory organs of all participating subjects examined by me were not adversely affected in the six months period by smoking the cigarettes provided.' Remember this report, and buy Chesterfields. Regular, or King Size. Premium quality Chesterfields. Much milder!"

    I'm sure for plausible deniability they paid someone to produce that report. Science has been subverted by power, so that it is used to reinforce belief systems instead of producing new facts about the universe. But it's been going on since science existed at all.

    Nothing new under the sun, right?

  15. surprising by lambent · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm surprised i haven't seen a post about what should be so blindingly obvious ...

    A scientist's only oath need be the scientific method. If their behaviour or research can't stand up to that, then it's immediately suspect, invalid, unethical, and unscientific. Any other extraneous oath or pledge is just meaningless words, recited to make someone (who?) feel better. If a scientist won't live up to following through the scientific method, i fail to see how a silly bunch of (wow, overly-longwinded) words will make any difference.

  16. Morally wrong != government should forbid by Noren · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I expect that the vast majority today would agree that an abortion is bad, at least in the sense of being an unfavorable outcome if not in an absolute metaphysical sense. I expect that a majority would also think that in the abstract having an abortion is morally wrong.

    Morally wrong is not an all or nothing question though. Some would think it's morally wrong on the level of killing a baby, others that it was morally wrong but of very minor importance, and some would be scattered everywhere between.

    Many of those who see it as morally wrong (particularly if they see it as a relatively minor offense) nonetheless do not think that government should forbid it or punish those who obtain or perform it. I may have the opinion that billboards advertising cigarettes are morally wrong, or that certain forms of hate speech are morally wrong, or that extramarital sex is morally wrong, but that does not imply that I support a government ban on those things. Morality and legality are and should be separate concepts. I am not arrogant enough to believe that my set of morals is the one absolute true way, nor am I convinced that a government ban is always a productive and effective response even if something really is immoral.

    I expect that you'd get vastly different responses to the question 'is abortion bad?' or the question 'should agents of the government imprison people who get or perform abortions?' Nuance, however, does not win votes or make for good sound bites.

  17. Graduate school is too late to begin teaching this by SETIGuy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unethical people will continue to be unethical it's true. But it doesn't hurt to be explicit about what is ethical behavior and giving scientists at the beginning of their careers an opportunity to affirm their accord with those ideals. Some of us still try to live by our words. The problem is that otherwise ethical students are being taught to fudge their data in undergraduate labs. They are often told directly by their TAs to find out what the correct answer is and work backwards from there.

    If they aren't told that what is "slightly unethical behavior" in an undergraduate lab course is "dangerously unethical and likely criminal" behavior when practiced in the real world, how are they to know?

    The punishment for "fudging" lab data as an undergraduate should be failure on the assignment. The punishment for a graduate student TA who suggests that fudging lab data on an assignment is OK should be immediate expulsion.

  18. Re:Graduate school is too late to begin teaching t by yankpop · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've never been told by a TA to find the answer and work backwards

    It doesn't have to be that blatant. In my undergrad chem labs, we were marked based on how well we ran the experiments, with the relative success based on the yield we got. So accurately reporting that we got 50% yield was enough to pass the lesson, barely. We quickly learned that doubling the reagent volumes, without reporting that we had done so, would bring our yields up to the 80-90% range we needed to get a good mark. So, without ever being explicitly told to cheat, we learned that cheating was valued over truthful reporting and acted accordingly.

    In a way, this is very much in keeping with the way science is practiced. Failed experiments, well run and accurately written up, do not get published. We are rewarded for our results (true or false), not our ability as experimenters.

    In my botany labs, if an experiment failed (i.e., the plant died) I reported that truthfully, and was marked based on the quality of the report, not the actual outcome of the experiment. This was reflective of the quality of teaching in our botany department as a whole, and one reason why I'm a botanist today.

    yp.

  19. Re:Graduate school is too late to begin teaching t by thesandtiger · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The best lesson I ever had came from a basic chemistry lab class in highschool.

    We were given a packet that contained the whole process for some experiment we were to run that would end up telling us how much of each component was in a mix. It had an exact, step-by-step protocol for the experiment with measures, timing, etc. all spelled out, as well as blanks for us to put our quantities in. At the end, in the analysis section, it had the "right" answers already printed there, along with blanks for our answers.

    Our teams began and the teacher and her assistants left the room. A few minutes later, we all started noticing that the results we were getting were not what we "should" be getting, according to the booklet. A few teams decided to have each member (there were 3 per team) run each experiment individually and then checking our results against each other in order to see if we were screwing up in the process. Some of the other teams just decided to keep going, write down the "wrong" answers and hand in those reports. And the rest decided to just ignore the results they got and write in answers that were close to the "right" ones but were completely fabricated.

    The teacher and her assistants come back and get everyone to turn in their packets, and are pleasantly surprised that some teams did the whole replication thing (which, it turned out, all of our results agreed with each other and disagreed with the packet). Then they announce: for today's exercise, anyone who submitted answers that agreed with the packet would fail. It was impossible to get the results printed in the packet by any possible iteration of the experiment that was listed, so anyone who claimed results in agreement with the packet was clearly lying. Everyone else - who wrote down the honest results - passed, and we got extra credit for doing the replication test. The lab that day was to show us the importance of honesty in research.

    We then spent the remainder of the session discussing what "wrong" answers mean in science, how things that don't match expectations may, at the least, point out a simple mistake in calculations or experimental technique but might, in other cases, point to something wholly new and interesting. "I have found it!" is a nice thing to hear in science, but all the REALLY good stuff comes after, "Huh, that's odd..."

    Anyway, I hate chemistry because I'm too much of a fumble-fingers with the equipment, but I'm now a researcher (psychology) and I've taken those lessons to heart. In my lab, we work on several areas that are considered controversial (effects of individual background differences on interactions etc). I spent the last academic year working on a project that wound up yielding a null-result, and so that's what we reported and eventually got published. Was it sexy? No - a validation of the status quo isn't nearly as thrilling as exposing something new. But it was honest, it was "important" in the sense that it lent validation to processes already in place, and that's cool.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.