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Google Trends vs. Community Standards On Obscenity

circletimessquare writes "Google Trends is being used in a novel way in a pornography trial in Florida. Under a 1973 Supreme Court ruling, 'contemporary community standards' may be used as a yardstick for judging material as unprotected obscenity. This is a very subjective judgment, and so Lawrence Walters, a defense lawyer for Clinton Raymond McCowen, is using Google Trends to show that, in the privacy of their own homes, more people in Pensacola (the only city in the court's jurisdiction that is large enough to be singled out in the service's data) are interested in 'orgy' than "apple pie'."

19 of 332 comments (clear)

  1. Petard, meet hoist. by Jaysyn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is awesome.

    --
    There is a war going on for your mind.
    1. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by FredFredrickson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In the state that I live (NH), obscene is defined by anything that most likely would cause "affront or alarm." This, of course, leaves a lot for interpretation. My new hair cut could be considered obscene.

      The question is simple: why are natural things like nudity, sex, and sexual intercourse considered obscene to begin with? Is it neccessary for society to function? Is it important to have a line drawn somewhere, for fear that if the line gets pushed, even more extreme things may become the norm? (Killing babies, public self mutiliation, goatse)?

      I, of course, don't support public obscenities and indecencies- it's just plainly wrong to do some things in public. But then I try to think why it is, and can't seem to find a good answer. Is it because that's how I was brought up, and that's how I learned it should be?

      There are a lot of things that I learned as I grew up that don't actually make sense. Is it possible that some things are just the way we've always done it, and that's why it shouldn't change? My parents spoon fed me loads of crap, how am I supposed to seperate the truth (shouldn't run around naked in public) from all the lies (go to church or you'll go to hell)?

      As an interesting side note, if he really wants to make a point, he should add a new term to the trends- Google Trends. (Additionally, he shouldn't have public news like this- people will skew the trends when they find out about it.

      --
      Belief? Hope? Preference?The Existential Vortex
    2. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by mo^ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sexual intercourse is meant to be an act performed in private for the two parties that love and care for each other deeply enough to create a stronger bond. Citation please. my high-school biology seemed t indicate it was for procreation. I can find nothing to indicate that the point of fucking is to be private.

      Do you censure fish who conduct the act of procreation on a mass scale in front of other fish?

      --
      bah!*@%!
    3. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by PakProtector · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sexual intercourse is meant to be an act performed in private for the two parties that love and care for each other deeply enough to create a stronger bond. When you put that on public display, the act is reduced to a trite sensuality.

      Says who? Last time I checked, there were thre reasons for doing something in private: You believe the world has no right to know your private affairs, or you're ashamed of what you're doing, or you fear the repercussions of your action.

      Last time I check, Sexual Intercourse was a natural biological function that had nothing to do with mutual love or regard. It can have those qualities, but those are not inherent in the act itself.

      --

      Edward@Tomato - /home/Edward/ man woman
      man: no entry for woman in the manual.
      "Qua!?"

    4. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by jefu · · Score: 5, Funny

      Sexual intercourse is meant to be an act performed in private for the two parties that love and care for each other deeply enough to create a stronger bond.

      Interesting statement. "meant" - by whom? Who says it should be performed in private (except people nowadays)?

      You're assuming quite a bit, I suspect. I, on the other hand, know for sure that the FSM meant for sexual intercourse to be performed in large tubs of grated parmesan cheese by dozens of people at once.

    5. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by Nursie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "...intercourse is meant to be an act performed in private for the two parties that love and care for each other..."

      That's your interpretation. It's not everyone's by any means.

      Ask most men in their early 20s and you'll find that intercourse is an act performed wherever and whenever they can get away with it with whoever is looking good that day.

      Ask a lot of young women of today and they'll tell you much the same (though probably a little less extreme).

      Ask polyamourists, swingers, exhibitionists etc, you'll get a different answer every time.

      What's "meant to be", that depends on who you ask. To me it sounds like a religious proclamation.

      this is not to say I want to see fat people screwing in the streets, just that not everyone thinks the way you do.

    6. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by bickerdyke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The question is simple: why are natural things like nudity, sex, and sexual intercourse considered obscene to begin with? Because it is such a private and special act, despite the act having been demeaned over the past 60+ years. And that's the problem. Sexual intercourse is meant to be an act performed in private for the two parties that love and care for each other deeply enough to create a stronger bond. When you put that on public display, the act is reduced to a trite sensuality. And now go and tell that to the Bonobos! :-) You may be right with the last 60+ years, but if you think back say 1000 years, with at least one peasant family living in a crowded hut. If it were *that* private back then, mankind wouldnt have survived till now. Someone here has any clue when it became a private act in the first place? Had to be some time after our anchestors descended from the trees.
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      bickerdyke
    7. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The question is simple: why are natural things like nudity, sex, and sexual intercourse considered obscene to begin with? Is it neccessary for society to function? Is it important to have a line drawn somewhere, for fear that if the line gets pushed, even more extreme things may become the norm? No. To control a society through fear (of terrorism, eternal damnation, or whatever the meme of the day is) you need to make sure that said fear is present at all times.

      Sexuality is an excellent choice for a religion-dominated control-through-fear approach. It's one of the strongest natural drives, but contrary to hunger, thirst or the opposite bodily functions, you can actually suppress it for a long time. Thus you can have "good" examples to tell all the normal people that they are abnormal, evil, and will certainly go to hell unless... and the unless is what puts you in power.

      Worked in Europe for almost two thousand years. In some more primitive parts of the world, including certain regions of Europe and the US, it still works quite well.

      It is precisely because nudity and sex are such normal and natural things that they are made taboo.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    8. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Because [sex] is such a private and special act...

      Um, no. Sex is not particularly special, the majority of adults have had it. It's considered private in our culture, but in other cultures a couple living in a one room hut with a couple of kids will think nothing of getting it on while the kids are there.

      (Sex with someone you love is, hopefully, a special thing. But then, going out to dinner with someone you love is, hopefully, a special thing - it's the "with someone you love" that makes it special, not the act itself.)

      Sexual intercourse is meant to be an act performed in private for the two parties that love and care for each other deeply enough to create a stronger bond.

      Sexual intercourse is "meant" to be an act performed to make more members of the screwing couple's species. Anything additional is a social or psychological construct. Which doesn't mean that adding to it is good or bad - but seeking "meaning" in biology is not a useful endeavor.

      Certainly, in the Judeo-Christian value system that Europe and the US was brought up in, we were taught that once Adam & Eve ate the fruit and became smart, they put clothes on - to be in public without clothes on is an affront to modesty and morality.

      Ancient Hebrew mythology about talking snakes, magical trees, and why all the problems in the world are the fault of a woman, is not a good reason for pointing guns at people and locking them in cages if they step outside with no clothes on.

      Any purported system of morality that claims public nudity to be immoral has left any vestige of rationality behind. Hundreds of people have seen me naked (at events like this and this and this) and no one has been harmed.

      --
      Tom Swiss | the infamous tms | my blog
      You cannot wash away blood with blood
    9. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by James+McP · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You forgot the 4th reason people crave privacy: safety.

      People involved in the act tend to be focused on what they're doing, or at least distracted. That puts you at risk for outside threats and our instincts are to do risky things in safe environments.

      Some part of the brain starts yelling "Hey, you are very exposed right now!" and it has a very visceral impact on the person depending on their mindset. The sensations range from a thrill (for the exhibitionist) to anxiety ("normal" people) all the way to psyche scarring shame (for the repressed).

      --
      I've been on slashdot so long I'm starting to get out of touch with the cool stuff if it ain't on slashdot.
    10. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by Josuah · · Score: 5, Insightful

      To follow your example...the fish generally don't pretend to procreate for pleasure and no one objects when they DO procreate.

      There's evidence suggesting that fish do have sex for reasons other than procreation. Whether this be pleasure (fish can feel pain--I submit that if a creature can feel pain they can feel pleasure), or for other social reasons (see the paragraph about bonobos using sex to relieve tension), or to establish dominance (which I would argue the other animals aren't too happy about) the fact remains that human mores about sex appear to run counter to the rest of nature.

    11. Re:Petard, meet hoist. by MrNaz · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Plants are sexual too"

      Yea, I've been noticing my petunias giving me the eye lately. Must be that time of year...

      --
      I hate printers.
  2. "What is more American than apple pie?" by MRe_nl · · Score: 5, Informative

    Group sex and orgies apparently. (From the courtcase)

    "We tried to come up with comparison search terms that would embody typical American values," Mr. Walters said. "What is more American than apple pie?" But according to the search service, he said, "people are at least as interested in group sex and orgies as they are in apple pie."

    Chris Hansen, a staff lawyer for the national office of the American Civil Liberties Union, called the tactic clever and novel, but said it underscored the power of the Internet to reveal personal preferences -- something that raises concerns about the collection of personal information.

    "That's why a lot of people are nervous about Google or Yahoo having all this data," he said.

    Subscribe to Google Blackmail now: Because We Know You Know We Know.

    --
    "Kill 'em all and let Root sort 'em out"
  3. Re:Weird spike by Paranatural · · Score: 5, Informative

    There's a big swinger's convention in New Orleans in November. Also the fall tends to be the time of year when such parties and whatnot get underway.

    Hey, you asked. And now you know more about me than you ever wanted to.

  4. Re:Hyprocrisy in the South--film at eleven! by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 5, Funny

    Taking Pensacola's data as a baseline will offer skewed results. Pensacola has a large Navy population, so would have higher porn related searches then the rest of the communities in the area from the Navy personnel stationed there alone.

    As a navy semen, I reject your pornosition that sex is always on our minds.

    --
    An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
  5. all is fair in love and war by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it's not like there once was a time in human history when love was free and sex was easy. there have always been social limits on sex for as long as we have been social apes. sure, we don't have to fight and scrounge for food anymore, but this has only been true for the last century. which, not coincidentally, the last century has seen a relaxation of sexual mores. the other hundreds of thousands of years of human history has been a desperate fight for resources for you and your children against the neighbors and their kids.

    prudish social conservatism is not some newfangled judeochristian invention, it is simply human nature. the gut human reaction at seeing someone more successful than you procreatively or materially is anger, and this anger is evolutionarily advantageous: to work hard at limiting your fellow man's success and enjoyment in life, so that you may have some success yourself.

    so sex is is fun, sex is pleasurable, sex is good, sex is harmless... unless it is someone else having it. then it is bad. is this selfish? absolutely. and evolutionarily advantageous. and therefore hardwired into how our brains function: there is no way the neighbor's children are going to get more bananas than my children, so there is no way the neighbors are going to freely have sex without my approval

    in this perverse way, the urge to prevent other people from enjoying sex is the same urge underlying the desire for social justice, for equality: you can't have more than me, its not fair. community standards on sex is simply the most primitive form of birth control. no, that's not "just say no", that's "you have sex and i'll punish you, because your children are taking resources from my children"

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  6. Re:Is that only in Pensacola? by lilomar · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here you go.

    Black = orgy more interesting.
    Red = apple pie more interesting.
    White = water.

    --
    The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
  7. Same old issue again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem that I see with this issue is that it isn't *really* about protecting the children so much as protecting one's self from having to encounter something that makes one squeamish.

    Pictures of naked women painted to look like cows (for example) are pretty darn weird. A lot of people are well within their rights to be freaked out by the existence of such pictures. They are exactly the sort of thing that makes someone squeamish. But does that, in and of itself, mean they should be illegal?

    In a country that is founded upon personal freedom, the answer is "no." In a country founded on moral oppression the answer is "yes," but America is not (at least in theory) such a country. Here the acid test is (or at least should be) "is it directly harmful to a human." And, in the case of these pictures, the answer is obviously, "no."

    I have friends who are fond of saying, "I will fight to the death to defend your right to free speech" (interestingly enough, none of them have actually joined the military, but that is beside the point). They like to pretend to be patriotic. In my opinion, a REAL patriot would say, "I will fight to the death to defend your right to do things that freak me the fuck out."

    1. Re:Same old issue again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Here the acid test is (or at least should be) "is it directly harmful to a human."

      I would argue the acid test should be more like, "is it directly harmful to a non-consenting human."