Magazine Photos Fool Age-verification Cameras

gregor-e writes "Japan has scheduled a full-scale rollout of visual age-verification on cigarette vending machines. Unfortunately for them, a Sankei Sports news reporter has determined that this system can be fooled by holding up a magazine photo of an adult."

Comments

Impressive

[mistersooreams]

Wow, this whole idea is fantastically stupid in so many ways. In a sense I admire the gall of whichever company sold this technology, as they must have known that it couldn't possibly work. No doubt they'll roll out some ad-hoc solution to the magazine workaround (earning themselves another hearty payday as all the machines are updated). This can be repeated for each new workaround until everyone involved retires rich and their customer is too embarrassed to admit that the whole thing was obviously a waste of money.

At least it's a tobacco company getting shafted. Can't feel too sorry for them.

Re:Impressive

[Valar]

Eh, actually they don't want it to work. This way they can say "we tried to stop it from selling to kids!", but when the machine dispenses anyway they can make some extra bucks. It could easily be a way to avoid the age limits on who they can sell to.

Re:Impressive

[deepgrey]

The whole idea of cigarette vending machines is itself fantastically stupid if there is an age cutoff for the legal purchase of cigarettes. Can you just imagine what Japan would be like if marijuana were legal there?

Re:Impressive

[snarkh]

It is similar to airline security mentality -- make everything secure by installing a fancy machine.
If it is sufficiently expensive, it must be effective.

Re:Impressive

[rubberchickenboy]

Can you just imagine what Japan would be like if marijuana were legal there?

It would be a huge improvement. I love it here in Tokyo, but sometimes it would be nice to burn one with some Japanese friends just to chill out. So many people here are overly-stressed, anxious, and unwilling to talk about it. Sure, those things are cultural, but they're also the sorts of things pot actually helps alleviate.

What's better? The high rate of suicide in Japan? How about the high incidence of alcohol poisoning? I fail to see how pot would make things worse.

Unfortunately, MacArthur made sure that Japanese demonize marijuana and think of it as more dangerous than heroin or cocaine.

Re:Impressive

[Free the Cowards]

The funny thing is that a lot of young people talk this way. And yet when they get older, they don't start offing themselves. Turns out that while a lot of people talk about how they'd rather die than be decrepit, when they're actually faced with the choice nearly all of them choose life.

Complex systems, simple workaround

[nightglider28]

It's funny when people try to create a complex system in which someone finds a tiny, simple hole. On a related note, wouldn't it be a better idea (and probably more cost effective than continual update to the security) to have some sort of ID scanner in addition to the cameras?

Re:Complex systems, simple workaround

[Opportunist]

Actually, what came to my mind was some copy protection that could be circumvented with a felt pen.

I was honestly waiting for them to outlaw felt pens since they're now a copy protection circumvention device.

Re:Cracking at its best

[CaptainPatent]

BTW it is easy to fix this if the machine asks the people to move

Or better yet, add a second eye to make sure the subject has... depth!

thermal sensor

[Anonymous Coward]

what i don't get is why they didn't include a 10$ thermal sensor on their camera. it would have made this kind of attack much harder

Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[davidwr]

Their place is in an age-restricted building or room.

Cigarette vending machines in bars, casinos, adult-entertainment establishments, and other placed where Junior can't get in without bribing the doorman, er, I mean presenting a convincing fake id, are no problem.

If they really wanted to handle this with a machine, they would make you insert your driver's license, tell you to close either your left eye or right eye or make some other facial expression at random, then compare the faces. They would double-check with the driver's license database to make sure the face on the license matched the face on record.

Thankfully, we aren't quite to this 1984 scenario yet, but this is coming.

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[v1]

According to the article, if you fail the visual check you have to insert your license. My question would be why don't they just always require the license? If you're old enough to smoke you should have a license. No idea how it works over there but I thought you could get a "non driving" driver's license here in the states to use as an ID.

I suppose this also says something about how many people there smoke, if they have to have cigarette vending machines around every corner. Here there are no such things anymore and I don't see anyone rioting over it. One would think the only reason they have those vending machines right now is to sell to underage smokers. Which is probably why the whole issue is under attack in the first place.

Anyone have any stats on what effect the age verification systems are having on cigarette sales from machines? I wouldn't be surprised to see sales drop 80%. For the sheer convenience and that most smokers are 1 or 2 pack a day addiction, you'd think most reasonable smokers would be buying cartains, not singles. Prices in the machines tend to be higher than by the cartain too,

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[Deagol]

...reasonable smokers...

There's the main flaw in your logic. Anyone who pays (way too much) for the privilege of habitually inhaling toxic smoke and gases (which is contrary to any living creature's survival instinct) cannot be described as "reasonable". Reason doesn't come into the equation for estimating how nicotine addicts will profit the tobacco companies.

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[CyborgWarrior]

Somebody once told me that it's not the days in your life that count, but the life in your days. Is your entire goal in life to live to the oldest age possible? If so, you should probably avoid driving cars or being near major roads, stay away from computers to prevent blindness and spend most of your day maintaining whatever the currently accepted level of aerobic exercise is.

Fuck that. Life is about having some fun too. If I enjoy inhaling toxic smoke, then maybe that is the way I want to have the fun in my life, and if me choosing what I want to do for fun doesn't match your "reason" or Big Brother's "reason" then fuck you both.

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[v1]

addiction and logic do not work in tandem. addiction is the defeat of logic, therefore you cannot use logic to describe the actions of the addicted.

Try talking to someone with an addiction. Be it alcohol, nicotine, or crack. Try reasoning with them. Odds are they will agree with you but won't change their behavior.

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[Sapphon]

If I enjoy inhaling toxic smoke, then maybe that is the way I want to have the fun in my life, and if me choosing what I want to do for fun doesn't match your "reason" or Big Brother's "reason" then fuck you both.

If you have the mental faculties to be able to properly weigh the risks of the actions you choose against their benefits to you – whether that be using a computer all day or smoking – and there are no social costs inherent in your actions, then by all means, do what you want.

But society has decided that if you are under a certain age you do not have these required decision making capabilities, and so you are restricted from making the choice. That is all.

If a child really wanted to inhale toxic fumes its parents could make that choice by going to the cigarette machine and buying the fags, but the child itself can't. Seems reasonable to me.

(This post restricts itself to the narrow issue of age restrictions and ignores facets such as taxes on "undesireable" goods)

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[pentlappy]

Fuck that. Life is about having some fun too. If I enjoy inhaling toxic smoke, then maybe that is the way I want to have the fun in my life, and if me choosing what I want to do for fun doesn't match your "reason" or Big Brother's "reason" then fuck you both.

I hear this a lot. I don't want to argue with you because I don't believe in being someone else's mother. However, I assure you that the life in your days once you develop emphysema and heart disease is going to be both long AND miserable.

Disclaimer: I work in a hospital.

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[Deagol]

Well, sure, if you're already hooked, then your points hold true. However, you truly have to be a follow-the-crowd dumb-ass to force your way through the initial phases of smoking in order to become tolerant of the practice and then become an addict. Unlike like other addictions (such as chocolate, whippets, or booze) which are *initially* pleasurable, a first time smoker's response of usually one of distaste.

Ever wonder why so many movies or TV shows portray this scene:
1. Some bad boy/girl wannabe lights up their first smoke
2. They choke and cough, being generally shocked at how awful it is
3. They are then ridiculed by the veteran bad boys/girls who do smoke

This is such a common theme because -- wait for it -- the short-term instincts of animals tells them that smoke (or its source) is hazardous to the animal's health or well-being.

I'm about as anti nanny state as most people get. The poster who offered me the friendly "fuck you" totally missed the point. I don't wish to curb such self destructive behavior -- more power to those who enjoy it, so long as it doesn't negatively affect my own health, taxes, or insurance premiums. I just want smokers to acknowledge their habit is about as rational as shitting in their own water supply or jumping from cliffs.

Re:Age-controlled vending machines have a place

[rantingkitten]

have to be a follow-the-crowd dumb-ass to force your way through the initial phases of smoking in order to become tolerant of the practice

Just to be a jackass, let me point out that for a girl, it's generally somewhat painful the first time she has sex. By your logic, most girls should have sex once, see how bad it is, and then never do it again unless they're some kind of follow-the-crowd dumbasses.

You really should refine your argument. :P

Old Space Quest III trick

[ebbomega]

Steal a picture of the CEO, photocopy, put it back, hold up in front of your face when trying to access the secret room and let it scan you.

God I wasted so many damn hours on that game.

Re:Cracking at its best

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it would be easier at that point to get someone older to buy them for you than to spend an extra 30 bucks on a mask

I'd say after checking for depth they're almost as safe as any other grocery or convenience store where someone can buy something for you.

Why not ban them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just ban cigarette vending machines like we did here in Canada? It's much simpler than trying to invent silly age verification schemes that any tech-savvy kid can foil.

Re:Why not ban them?

[Anonymous Coward]

Any sentence that starts with "Why not just ban" is that of a simpleton. Please don't vote.

Re:In Korea only old people

[kesuki]

"In North America, of course, magazine photos use young people."

there fixed that for you. you do realize the impact of magazines on widespread society, and the popularity of various talking heads and celebrities, especially this 'tween' star trend... the forbes top 100 celeb list had like 10 'tween's on it.

Re:In Korea only old people

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have nothing worth saying, say nothing.

Re:no, fuck you.

[Tano]

I don't know, this might muck up my karma, but still it has to be said...

Mate, if you live in a village somewhere, with no cars or industry nearby, i'd agree with you... otherwise, you get much more damage to your lungs from just having a walk in a city than from a rare second hand smoke.

Now, if you're in a tight space with a person who smokes, in a car or a room for example, then i agree it shouldn't be your problem, it should be up to the smoker to refrain from lighting up, or to go outside.
That's the main reason why i never smoke inside any kind of building, or in any car. It's just a question of common courtesy - i choose to smoke because i like it, but i also know that it's bad for non-smokers, so i don't smoke near them.
Hell, i even refrain from smoking in my own apartment, just because it's rented, and i don't want a possible future inhabitant to have to live with the smell of smoke imprinted in the walls and furniture.