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The Very Worst Uses of Windows

Posted by timothy on from the you-seem-to-be-attaching-an-iron-lung dept.

bigplrbear writes "I found an interesting article revealing the many places that Microsoft products reside, and what they're used for, ranging from elevators to ticket scanners." From the article: "Thanks to VMWare Windows is spreading throughout the datacenter. And, of course, there is only one operating system to use if you are dependent on Microsoft apps like Outlook, Word, and Excel. While I have joined the chorus of security folks who rail against the Microsoft Monoculture I still cannot believe some of the uses for Windows. Some of them are just downright silly, some you may claim are criminally negligent." Note: I'm making no claim of criminal negligence!

71 of 816 comments (clear)

  1. Obligatory... by Dice · · Score: 4, Funny

    What, you mean other than as a desktop OS?

    1. Re:Obligatory... by mrbluze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Management OTOH are complete fucking idiots, they'll always go with the inferior solution from the hardworking salesman. One day we'll have managers who'll think, "this salesman is working harder than the others because he knows his product isn't as good"

      In my experience management tends to go for the product that has the best clicky-pends and coffee mugs and complimentary dinners. That being said, the same management is in a sealed off part of the building with high security locks and a separate parking area with a security guard and barbed wire fencing. I wonder what they know that they don't want us to know.

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    2. Re:Obligatory... by Shaltenn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And in my experience managers tend to go with the solution that the largest percentage of the population and staff use. Granted the trend towards Microsoft software is on the downside but they are still king of the hill. For now.

      You can't expect people to just up and leave software that they're familiar with. I reference college students where I work. We have two rooms, similarly laid out. One room has HP DC7600s, the other Intel iMacs. People chose the room with the HPs showing the typical Windows screensaver over the Macs (which dual boot!) - why? Because it's friggin familiar. And you can't change that by saying the software is crap, because there isn't a usable alternative that appeals to the masses.

      --
      If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
    3. Re:Obligatory... by SpiderClan · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's just to keep you from stealing their clicky-pens.

    4. Re:Obligatory... by mrbluze · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can't expect people to just up and leave software that they're familiar with.

      While that sounds good it doesn't wash. It depends what you are setting up to do. If you want a permissive, bug ridden system where most of your company's bandwidth is used for P2P and every three months your clients call you to tell you their computer has slowed to a crawl, go ahead and use Windows.

      If you are running a class where you are developing software that runs on Windows, then use Windows. Fine. If you want to run a Windows Only App, and it won't run in Wine or there is no Mac equivalent, then no probs, you win, go for Microsoft.

      But if you want a system where the idea is to minimize the cost of installing and maintaining terminals, maximize the portability of people's computer setups, and give people enough freedom to play without crippling everyone else's system, then go for a thin client model using Linux or BSD. For most people there is no 'familiarity' problem in clicking on an icon, doing stuff and then going 'File -> Save' then 'File - Quit' or finding a the little X in the top right corner.

      And who ever said you had to use a mac?

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    5. Re:Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >Management OTOH are complete fucking idiots

      Management is always somebody else, isn't it?
      You never get promoted and that's somebody else's failure.

    6. Re:Obligatory... by hedwards · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Most of those applications shouldn't be running Windows, or any other full featured OS, anyways.

      One of the big problems with MS is the tendency to want to squeeze the same type of desktop into any environment whether or not it makes sense.

      If the only thing the computer needs to do is show an arrow, I'm really not sure why Windows is necessary, MS-DOS could do that efficiently, especially if it never needs to change arrow types. Back when I used DOS still, most of the time when it froze it would continue showing the last image. If showing one image is the only requirement, then DOS can still crash and do the job.

      One could also go with something like damn small linux as well. But for several of those applications a stripped down OS of virtually any sort is going to be a better choice, even if it is just a stripped down version of Windows.

    7. Re:Obligatory... by mrbluze · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Being a manager is hard enough without gitch religious trolls twitching their flaming tech tongues in a business vacuum.

      There are bad managers / administrative departments out there. Lots of them. They are as good as the facts and information they receive, sure, but they are also as good as their intelligence and integrity. Someone once asked me "why are our admins so freakin' stupid and incompetent?" to which I answered "because if they weren't they wouldn't be working here for wages but at successful company X with its expanding markets and sweet result driven bonuses."

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    8. Re:Obligatory... by Shaltenn · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "While that sounds good it doesn't wash. It depends what you are setting up to do. If you want a permissive, bug ridden system where most of your company's bandwidth is used for P2P and every three months your clients call you to tell you their computer has slowed to a crawl, go ahead and use Windows."

      The last person to use our lab equipment for P2P had his associated UNIX account probshelled for 6 months. 6 months of no e-mail, no internet, no lab access.

      And for the record, our DeepFreeze'd machines along with hard-disk images results in one machine out of 50 going bad in about a 6 month period.

      I don't know where you work, but those symptoms sound more indicative of user (or administrative) stupidity.

      --
      If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
    9. Re:Obligatory... by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If the only thing the computer needs to do is show an arrow, I'm really not sure why Windows is necessary,

      Why is a computer necessary? A plastic sign would do just as well.

    10. Re:Obligatory... by Daengbo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I live in Korea, where every computer runs Windows, no matter how minimal the need. POS terminal in large supermarkets, airport arrival/departure information screens, ATMs, monitors which loop the same video in full-screen all day, every day.

      Korea spends a lot of its time being nationalistic (just look at the anti-U.S. mad cow demonstrations happening now), yet they send I-don't-know-how-many-billions of dollars to the U.S. for Windows XP every year. My Samsung hard drives even used to come with an OEM version of XP.

      --
      Put identity in the browser.
    11. Re:Obligatory... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Until you have to lay someone off, you can eat a dick. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

      Good management will make decisions that don't negatively affect the productivity and profitability of their department while keeping their staff happy AND employed.

      I happen to think my team members' livelihoods are more important than my opportunity to appear ingenious. If that makes me look like a fucking idiot to you, fine - I DON'T ANSWER TO YOUR SUBORDINATE ASS. The people I DO answer to fully understand why I made the decisions I made, and they approve.

      I can't afford to move my team over to Linux without having either alternate placement for my existing windows based team, or adequate funding and time to make them productive on the new systems - so it ain't happening.

      Only a truly shitty manager would think it was worth it to release a team of productive, honest employees to implement a system that is only "better" in a debatable sense.

    12. Re:Obligatory... by ion.simon.c · · Score: 5, Informative

      While that sounds good it doesn't wash. It depends what you are setting up to do. If you want a permissive, bug ridden system where most of your company's bandwidth is used for P2P and every three months your clients call you to tell you their computer has slowed to a crawl, go ahead and use Windows.

      This is hyperbole or ignorance.
      In controlled environments, modern versions of Windows don't have these performance problems.

    13. Re:Obligatory... by HereIAmJH · · Score: 5, Funny

      I live in Korea, where every computer runs Windows,

      (just look at the anti-U.S. mad cow demonstrations happening now)

      You'll end up with mad cow one way or another. If we can't send the cows to you, we'll feed them to MS programmers. We've been doing it for years.

      Denny Crane

      --
      Another day, another update to a Google android app.
    14. Re:Obligatory... by dlanod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's worse for use as a desktop OS than some of the other examples in that list. Building controls, manufacturing controls and SCADA networks are, for instance, examples where Windows is actually passable. Why? A very controlled environment and lack of Internet connectivity. The main source of memory leaks and degradation over time is third-party sources, whether applications or drivers. Windows still has a significant number of inherent security flaws, but in these applications the systems should not be connected to the general Internet. This makes it a lot more difficult for an attacker to access the system.

      The control over installed third-party systems and lack of external systems connectivity means that Windows tends to be a lot more stable in these environments than on an average desktop PC. The greatly reduces the potential for the jokes about "viruses" and "Trojans" on these systems the author joked about. It's not necessarily the best tool, as a custom Unix or Linux OS can provide much better general uptime and the ability to potentially fix any issues yourself, but it can be an adequate tool.

    15. Re:Obligatory... by ion.simon.c · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regardless of what else I may do, I am certainly not a Windows expert.

      I am taking no extraordinary measures in the day to day operation of my gaming PC.
      I run as a limited user.
      I patch Windows monthly.
      I don't run software that claims to put "HAWT NUDE CHIXXXORZ" "RIGHT ON YOUR DESKTOP!".

      It's simple, really.

    16. Re:Obligatory... by Irish_Samurai · · Score: 4, Funny

      If you want, I'll let you borrow my pencil.

    17. Re:Obligatory... by mrbluze · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's simple, really.

      So simple that nobody does it, for reasons unknown to anyone.

      --
      Do it yourself, because no one else will do it yourself. [beta blockade 10-17 Feb]
    18. Re:Obligatory... by TheNetAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Agree that it is silly to deploy full OSes for anything like these examples from the article provide.

      One thing to note is how many companies are STILL using Win9X based Windows for simple deployments, as most of the examples of the BSOD is the Win9X version. OS/2 is still used at a lot of terminal based installation from banks to cash registers, and not only sadly outdated but overkill and underkill at the same time when you consider the hardware it is running on that has been updated.

      One thing the article misses is that there are 'small' and stable versions of Windows that would make a better replacement for most of these usage example. (One of the examples is talking about Windows Embedded but the author doesn't realize such a thing exists, as they are referencing the system as 'Windows' when it is a newer Windows Embedded system.

      The funny thing is that Microsoft themselves would not support or endorse the usage of Windows (especially Win9X) in the examples given in the article. This is where ignorance of the developers/implementors is the problem, not Windows or Microsoft.

      When you can get Windows Embedded or Windows CE for a tiny fraction of the cost, and use any development from 'regular' Windows on these OSes/Devices there is no reason to be deploying a full OS install on devices or device type applications.

      I know everyone would like to yell Linux or (insert your favorite OS here) is the best OS to use in these circumstances, but there are times when Windows is the right choice, and does work better, just not a full installation that is poorly done.

      As for NT memory leaks and the guy having to go out to reboot the system. That is a bit of hyperbole that is obvious if you know anything about NT or used it even during that timeframe.

      1) Windows NT always has had a scheduler

      2) NT also has always had a very good set of scripting abilities from a .cmd or DOS .bat file to even VB Basic applications that ran on it when it shipped and took a few seconds to write it to do whatever you needed. (Hence MS adding VB scripting to Windows later on, as this was all too common already for VB to be used more as a scripting tool than as an application development environment.)

      So if this guy was going to a physical location to reboot a box, he is either really stupid, insane or lying. Pick one...

      At the very least you could put a restart application in the Task Scheduler and have NT freaking reboot itself. Let alone that the chances are the person was using Win16 applications on NT (especially at this timeframe as Win32 development was not easy or widespread at the time.)

      So if the application was Win16, just freaking reseting the subsystem would be a reboot for the application and this is without rebooting the entire OS because of the Win16 leak that was contained.

      So ya, this part is made up, bad memories, or someone that was really young and stupid not knowing any better, and you can't blame that off to Microsoft, even if it makes them try to feel better about their work...

    19. Re:Obligatory... by JohnBailey · · Score: 5, Funny

      I am taking no extraordinary measures in the day to day operation of my gaming PC.
      I run as a limited user.
      I patch Windows monthly.
      I don't run software that claims to put "HAWT NUDE CHIXXXORZ" "RIGHT ON YOUR DESKTOP!".

      It's simple, really.

      Hate to be the one to break it to you... those are extraordinary measures.

      --
      It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
    20. Re:Obligatory... by Kalriath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While that sounds good it doesn't wash. It depends what you are setting up to do. If you want a permissive, bug ridden system where most of your company's bandwidth is used for P2P and every three months your clients call you to tell you their computer has slowed to a crawl, go ahead and use Windows.

      Bullshit. Every single "problem" you listed there is indicative of incompetent administration, not the system. Where I work, we have upwards of 5,000 Windows XP desktops, 250 Windows 2003 servers, and a few Redhat Enterprise servers. We don't have any of the problems you listed. Re-imaging PCs is extremely rare because we don't let the users do anything TOO stupid, and the Cisco Catalyst switches prevent any traffic getting out except through our properly configured firewalls. If you're having the problems you list with a Windows network you run, you'd better quit and let a REAL admin take over.

      --
      For a site about things like basic rights, Slashdot users sure do like to censor "dissent".
    21. Re:Obligatory... by TheLink · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Give up, those bigots don't get it.

      I used to do IT security stuff and whether it's Windows or Linux there's not a big difference in security from the technical POV.

      Imagine if 90% of the desktop users in the world used Ubuntu/Suse as their desktop O/S and don't do the sort of thing you say you do for your windows box. You'd have the same problems all over again. There was at least one windows malware that spread via _requiring_ users to actually enter passwords to decrypt zipfiles and run the resulting executables. Requiring some user to (for example) run a malware perl program is nothing in comparison, and go figure the limits of what perl malware can do on a typical desktop machine, it can even google for new instructions and download them.

      Whether it's Linux or OSX, if you run the "HAWT NUDE CHIXXXORZ" trojan your user account's info will be at risk, and the trojan would be able to spam/DDoS the world from your box, and do anything your user account can do (turn on the mike, cam etc).

      In fact with Windows, sandboxing of programs (via software firewalls) is more common than with Desktop Linux where the isolation is more at a "per user" level. Server Linux has SELinux and AppArmor, but that's not desktop ready.

      --
    22. Re:Obligatory... by ihavnoid · · Score: 5, Informative

      I am a Korean, who also uses Ubuntu on a daily basis. Maybe I can answer this question.

      To get the Korean people use Linux, some things must be solved first.
      1) A good localization team which can catch up all the changes
      2) ActiveX-free site designing practices

      It seems that 2) is somewhat getting better, since I find that many webpages that didn't render properly starts to get rendered quite well on Firefox. Although there still are many websites that doesn't properly run without ActiveX, it isn't that serious in many cases. I guess it is because people are suddenly figuring out that ActiveX is insecure, unreliable, and may cause a whole lot of portability problems (surprise, surprise). Now, they try to implement them using Flash or plain Javascript.

      Now, what remains is when doing anything related to banking or shopping, since the Korean government requires all financial transactions to use their own way of digital signatures, which requires additional libraries. AFAIK, there is no regulation which limits its implementation to be in ActiveX, but the only problem is that nobody implements it in anything else. I believe there is a Java implementation which ran as an applet, but is seriously outdated since most people stuck with Windows anyway.

      Actually, I think the localization problem is more serious. Although many applications are well localized, it's still hard to find every newest distribution to be fully localized (I'm not even talking about beta versions). And it may cause problems, even if the number of non-localized messages is small.

      Combining it with a lack of cheap Linux programmers (also caused by the lack of localization, since the cheap workforce isn't so good at English anyway), I don't think we in Korea would see some serious Linux usage over here.

      ps : the mad cow demonstration isn't actually against United States - it's against the Korean government which didn't even try to do any negotiation at all - they simply threw the towel, even giving up their right to have any power to protect themselves in case of an outbreak of mad cow disease or whatsoever. Now suddenly, the government figured out that people actually did care about public health. (surprise, surprise).

    23. Re:Obligatory... by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Informative
      Australia has had five incidents of BSE and the U.S. has had two.

      Where did you get that idea?

      Australia has never recorded a case of BSE or vCJD and is one of a handful of countries recognised as having a negligible BSE risk by the World Organisation for Animal Health.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    24. Re:Obligatory... by vtcodger · · Score: 5, Interesting
      ***So if you're an expert taking extraordinary measures, it's _possible_ to make Windows work properly.***

      Probably not.

      But I have to admit, that my old P166 with a fully patched Windows 95 ran quite well. If it had been possible to add USB support, I'd probably still be using it.

      Guess I'm a victim of Windows burnout. I started out in 1995 genuinely liking Windows. But a decade of trying to keep that house of cards propped up and running on a hundred or so PCs soured me pretty thouroughly. I'm not wild about Linux, but I can live with it. And it is improving albeit not as quickly as I'd like. OTOH, I detest each new version of Windows more than the last. How can people possibly subject themselves to that thing? Do they spend their spare time -- assuming that they have any -- pounding thumbtacks into their foreheads?

      ***For the rest of us, the reboot/reinstall cycle is simpler.***

      If you had told us in 1968 that in 2008, computer software would work so badly that periodic reinstalls would be a normal maintenance procedure, we'd have laughed at you. Silly us.

      --
      You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
    25. Re:Obligatory... by mgblst · · Score: 4, Funny

      Microsoft actually bought South Korea in the late 90s.

    26. Re:Obligatory... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I am not the OP and we all know Windows can be made to work and many of us know how to do it. Its often a culture problem though. As someone who inherited a network rather then built it I have a bunch of users who expect to be able to install software on their own PCs, users who think its ok to have 16 gigs of E-mail, and users who think they should be allowed to do basically anything they please. despite our ever increasing helpdesk staff and my assurances to management I could correct that problem without preventing anyone from doing actually business with company equipment, management supports the users having to much access and total freedom to cause me and the desktop support staff headaches.

      I can only imagine the response I would get if I tried to do any filtering with my web accelerators, or tightened up the firewall enough to provide meaningful outbound protection. Hell it was a battle to lock the mail relays, because "Oh No's developers would need to create a request to get their machine permitted if they needed to test software they were working on to send mail."
      It took us getting on the black hole list to convince management that I either had to take steps to STOP PCs from being hijacked or lock down where mail could come from.

  2. Medical equipment by jawtheshark · · Score: 4, Informative

    Medical equipment: I confirm. My cousin is an engineer for General Electric, Medical section. As far as I know he services cardiac echography equipment. From what he told me, they all run Windows. Of course, this isn't life threatening, but I do know he's hardware guy and it wouldn't be the first time he calls me for a software problem in his job.

    While not in this case, a BSOD may mean real "D" these days in a hospital.... Sad, but true...

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    1. Re:Medical equipment by Eudial · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Medical equipment: I confirm. My cousin is an engineer for General Electric, Medical section. As far as I know he services cardiac echography equipment. From what he told me, they all run Windows. Of course, this isn't life threatening, but I do know he's hardware guy and it wouldn't be the first time he calls me for a software problem in his job.

      While not in this case, a BSOD may mean real "D" these days in a hospital.... Sad, but true...

      While I agree this is questionable, I don't think they are connected to the internets (at least I hope not). So, the whole virus/worm fear is probably irrational.

      --
      GAAH! MY PRINTER IS ON FIRE!!! PUT IT OUT! PUT IT OUT!
    2. Re:Medical equipment by jawtheshark · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, I certainly hope so. From what I hear those machines are indeed standalone. However, you just need one doctor with a laptop that is infected connecting directly to such a machine and mayhem ensues. Are they allowed to do that? Probably not.... Will they do it? Probably yes... :-(

      Also note I was marked Overrated, just for confirming the article by personal experience. *sigh*

      --
      Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
    3. Re:Medical equipment by von_rick · · Score: 4, Informative

      While I agree this is questionable, I don't think they are connected to the internets (at least I hope not). So, the whole virus/worm fear is probably irrational.

      There are several monitoring devices that transmit wirelessly from the procedure rooms to control rooms. We use wireless network to transmit blood pressure and heart rate information from MRI scanning room to the control computer. The control computer is connected to the centralized medical records server which is "supposed to be" super secure. But if it is broken into, you can pretty much control the communication with monitoring devices. Hope it doesn't happen.

      --

      Face your daemons!

    4. Re:Medical equipment by TuxTWAP · · Score: 5, Insightful

      During the birth of my first daughter, the fetal heart monitor was connected to a Windows box. Trust me, the last thing you want to see in the middle of a long, difficult and painful birth is a BSOD...especially when the doctor is desperately searching for a heartbeat.

    5. Re:Medical equipment by rmullen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I can confirm this as well. I was in the Massachusetts General Hospital laying in an fMRI tube because I was participating in a psychology study (and getting compensated financially). After a few minutes of inactivity I wondered when things would start happening - they soon extricated me from the tube. Turns out the cause of the problem was that the Siemens machine running Embedded Windows (as proven by a prominently-affixed license sticker) had locked up while I was entubed, and they had to reboot. After that it worked fine, and the fMRI went off without a hitch.

    6. Re:Medical equipment by mnmn · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As a relatively less scary story, the last bottle-making company I worked for (was bought out by Silgan Plastics) had these expensive plastic moulding machines bought at a high price from Italy. I was called in because the maintenance guy had been instructed to replace a PCI nic and couldn't do it. I opened the cabinet and lo and behold, there's an XP desktop sitting there with cheap Dell keyboard and mouse. The harddisk and motherboard had been bolted onto the metallic plates (no real case).

      I had worked for over a year as the only IT guy without knowing there were hoards of Windows desktops on the factory floor, with expensive maintenance contracts that brought in people to work on them.

      --
      "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    7. Re:Medical equipment by presentt · · Score: 4, Funny

      Similarly, I believe an MRI machine at my local hospital runs Windows.

      While getting an MRI of my knee after an injury, the tech gave me a pair of headphones to listen to music from a CD I brought in, which was piped in from the control room along with audio from the technician ("almost done, dolly, just one more scan")

      About halfway through the second track, the music abruptly switchd to the "BUHBUHBUHBUHBUHBUHBUHBUHBUHNNNNNN" sound of Windows freaking out, followed by silence, and then by the Windows startup sound. The MRI seemed to keep running, but at least the communications were using Windows.

      --
      I decided to stop stealing cynical quotes to use as a signature line.
    8. Re:Medical equipment by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Funny

      Started breathing.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    9. Re:Medical equipment by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Funny
      I'd hate to see a BSOD on one of those just when a patient is in desperate need of drugs.

      I know.

      It's bad enough when I try to order a pizza online.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    10. Re:Medical equipment by g0dsp33d · · Score: 4, Funny

      Wasn't the daughter - it was something he installed in his wife.

      --
      lol: You see no door there!
    11. Re:Medical equipment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sue them for what? Microsoft makes no guarantees. Read your license agreement.

    12. Re:Medical equipment by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I worked on an X Ray system that run Windows 2000. There was actually an earlier Linux version but the customers wanted Windows for some reason. I'm not sure why, installing applications on a X Ray system seems to me to be incredibly unwise.

      But it wasn't as bad a decision as you think. The actually X ray and display was essentially a separate machine. There was a PCI bus driven by the Windows box but everything was set up so that if the Windows side crashed the X Ray would continue to work. There was a dedicated monitor and the UI could be handled either with a mouse or with dedicated buttons. One of the tests was that you could continue to use the system while Windows rebooted from a BSOD. Or failed to reboot actually, we'd overwrite the MBR and the dereference a null pointer in kernel mode WinDbg which would trash the machine irrevocably.

      Essentially all desktop stuff is crap compared to well designed embedded systems. Embedded systems, at least good ones, don't call malloc except at initialization to avoid memory fragmentation. The code is much simpler - the X ray system would initialize the hardware and then sit in a loop waiting for commands from the hard keys. Code coverage was 100%, and the actual code was tiny, only a few 10s of kilobytes. The embedded system didn't have a filesystem and didn't do any dynamic loading - an image was booted from flash and that was it. The hardware was absolutley sealed, unlike in a desktop environment where people can install a $5 webcam with buggy drivers. There was even a hardkey to disable UI events from Windows - from Windows POV the UI device would be unplugged, just in case the Windows UI application went apeshit and overloaded the embedded side with bogus UI events. People worked out worst case interrupt latency and used vxWorks, a very light weight OS. All the critical stuff worked in this environment or was in hardware.

      Essentially the Windows PC was a glorified Human Interface device but everything was set up so the hard buttons were a more convenient system anyway. So people actually doing X Rays would use those. The point of all this was that we couldn't prove the desktop stuff was reliable so we worked on the assumption that it wasn't.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    13. Re:Medical equipment by cjb658 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Human wishes to start breathing. Cancel/Allow?

    14. Re:Medical equipment by ion.simon.c · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nothing is "not connected to the internet", not if it has an IP address

      What?
      Did you know that DHCP servers hand out IP addresses?
      Did you know that you can have a DHCP server on a LAN?
      Did you know that you can have a LAN that's not connected to the internets?

    15. Re:Medical equipment by jacquems · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, I certainly hope so. From what I hear those machines are indeed standalone. However, you just need one doctor with a laptop that is infected connecting directly to such a machine and mayhem ensues. Are they allowed to do that? Probably not.... Will they do it? Probably yes... :-(

      You would be surprised how much medical equipment is connected to the internet. My mother is a CT tech who works the night shift (in the USA). Rather than have a radiologist at each hospital all night to interpret the scans, they have one radiologist receive all the scans from all the hospitals in their group over the internet. The CT scan system is online: it takes the scans, stores them digitally, and then transfers the files to wherever they need to go.

      They supposedly have a firewall and a VPN, but their IT department is not so bright, so I wouldn't count on them to be able to configure it correctly. I have heard tales of spyware infections of the CT scan terminal due to employee web surfing, and an employee who was (incorrectly) accused of viewing porn sites on the job.

      Even when medical equipment is not directly connected to the internet, you can be pretty sure that patient records are stored on internet-connected machines (for things like sharing records between hospitals in the same system, etc.). It may not be directly life-threatening, but it certainly is a huge privacy concern.

    16. Re:Medical equipment by johannesg · · Score: 4, Funny

      This child process has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down.

      Come on, if you go that way do it right:

      This child process has performed an illegal operation. Retry, ignore, or abort?

  3. There can be only ONE by diggitzz · · Score: 5, Funny

    And, of course, there is only one operating system to use if you are dependent on Microsoft apps like Outlook, Word, and Excel.

    Mac OS X?

    --
    -=[You cannot consistently judge this statement to be true.]=-
    1. Re:There can be only ONE by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you can't get for mac is Access...

      What can an app written in VBScript+Access do that an app written in Python+SQLite can't?

    2. Re:There can be only ONE by neomunk · · Score: 5, Funny

      Draw derisive laughter from knowledgeable peers?

  4. Plants by barik · · Score: 4, Informative

    Most plants are running on PLCs, but their user interfaces HMI are pretty much all running some form of Windows. Common ones include Proficy iFIX (by GE), RSView (Rockwell), and WonderWare InTouch (Wonderware) on either Windows XP, Windows 2000/2003 or some form of Windows Embedded.

    It is actually incredibly difficult to find mature HMI software that is available for Linux.

    --
    Titus Barik
    1. Re:Plants by clarkkent09 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, but that's because photosynthesis software only runs on Windows

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    2. Re:Plants by __aaqvdr516 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not an expert, but I do admin a small network at a power plant and am an I&E tech. While we do have mostly Windows machines for admin tasks, all of our process instruments report to separate dedicated hardware and are interfaced with QNX. The windows machines only poll data and are the developing station for code to be pushed to the process controllers. All interfacing with process controls are through QNX. This is true for all power plants currently owned by the company I work for.

  5. Public BSODs by amdpox · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've seen quite a few... every ticket machine at Melbourne Airport one day was going through a BSOD-reboot loop, placed quite a workload on the human employees. I really don't understand how any company who's done a tiny bit of research could think Windows is an appropriate platform for something that should really be running a custom embedded system like a cut-down *nix.

    1. Re:Public BSODs by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because the CEO pushed to be a microsoft partner and is too stupid to understand what his engineers are telling him.

      It happens a LOT.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  6. Re:WARNING by von_rick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We have a 350MHz spectroscope in our lab that has embedded XP. Now if we go for few seconds of RF sampling, it writes Time vs Signal values as a CSV file. Now the funny thing is you can't open files with more than 65000 rows in excel and since the spectroscope itself has nothing but windows applications, none of them is capable of displaying the saved samples. You have to transfer the sample data to another computer and open them through Labview or Matlab or some such tool. Why would a spectroscope costing nearly $30,000 be running Windows.

    --

    Face your daemons!

  7. Power draw by pjt48108 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Another problem with overbloated systems running simple tasks is the huge draw of electricity. How much power could we save (and, therefore, money) by using bloated systems less for simple things?

    An obvious observation, but I thought I'd make it.

    --
    Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
  8. how about prison doors? by JonWan · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yep, The prison where I worked as a guard for a while changed their control center from mechanical switches to a PC running XP. I worked the control center a lot and the "upgrade" sucked. You had to page thru several screens to see all the doors and the touch screen was too sensitive. You could open 2 doors or the wrong door by accident. The interlock system was suppose to prevent that by requiring you to use both hands to open doors, but it proved to be impossible to use so it was disabled. the OS was always crashing (likely the shitty program) and you had to wait for the system to reboot before you could open doors without the keys.

  9. Re:Cars? by von_rick · · Score: 5, Funny

    Paper Clip: Do you mean Airbag?

    --

    Face your daemons!

  10. The worst i've seen by blhack · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In Phoenix we have a power company called APS. In some of the gas stations there are kiosks that allow you to pay your bill using Cash. I was walking through a circle K the other day, and to my horror i saw this:

    link

    Sorry about the shitty image quality...I took it using my crackberry.

    Yes, that is a dialog box politely informing you that you have been Trojaned.

    --
    NewslilySocial News. No lolcats allowed.
  11. CnC on Aegis Radar Cruisers by Lumenary7204 · · Score: 5, Informative

    A good chunk of the Command and Control systems on most modern (or most recently refitted) naval vessels in the United States' inventory run on Windows technology.

    It kinda gives me the shivers knowing that one of our ships could be sunk by an "inbound" because the point defense system is suffering a BSOD...

  12. My favorite was... by roc97007 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Windows for Warships

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  13. Re:WARNING by magarity · · Score: 4, Informative

    Database is definitely the way to go with that many lines of CSV. But he's already got Office so why not just Access? If you're going to go Microsoft, go all the way.

  14. Bank Machines by Lumenary7204 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Also, a few months ago I stopped at a bank machine to withdraw some cash.

    So I entered my PIN and withdrawal amount. While waiting for the magic money machine to do its thing, I idly tapped my fingers in random patterns on the touch screen.

    Suddenly, a standard Windows XP taskbar and Start button appeared.

    Being curious, I tapped the Start button. Kinda freaked me out when a complete Start Menu appeared. Everything was there, including Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, and Windows Media Player.

    I can't believe that neither the ATM machine manufacturer nor the bank put any effort into building a custom, stripped-down image to run the bank's cash machines...

    1. Re:Bank Machines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Was Minesweeper or Solitaire on there? They would be perfect for annoying the queue behind me.

  15. Roller Coaster controls by fahrvergnugen · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When drinking one night with a former roller coaster technician who had decided to get into the less stressful job of datacenter ops, I found out something terrifying about a famous (and, it should be said, injury/fatality-free as far as I know) catch & release roller coaster.

    The coaster is designed such that the train car is loaded at a station. Then a tractor mechanism pulls it backward, up to the top of a steep incline. Once at the top, the mechanism releases the car, and the train goes rocketing through the station, through a series of tight loops and twists, and then coasts up an identical steep incline on the other end. There another mechanism catches the car, drags it all the way to the top, and then lets go, sending the car back through the series of loops and twists in reverse. The car decelerates up the incline back on the original side, is caught once again, and returned gently to the station for boarding.

    All of these catch mechanisms need to know the velocity and weight of the train car in order to properly catch and decelerate it without hurting any of the occupants. Those values will change with every load of passengers, due to people's varying weights and their distribution around the car, so they have to be calculated on the fly.

    The software that does this, the engineer swore to me, runs on...

    Windows 3.11.

    This knowledge made future rides on that particular coaster a hell of a lot more scary.

    --
    Even Jesus hates listening to Creed.
    1. Re:Roller Coaster controls by GroeFaZ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well duh, a roller coaster is supposed to scare the living hell out of you. A geek might not be overly impressed by experiencing the effects of gravity and inertia (and might even carry a chess board with glued-on pieces), but knowing that thing runs on Windows 3.11! The horror!

      --
      The grass is always greener on the other side of the light cone.
  16. Re:Ho ho ho! *snort* by CaptKilljoy · · Score: 5, Informative

    >I presume you mean Windows CE?

    No, he means Embedded Windows, like Windows XP Embedded: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/embedded/products/whichproduct/default.mspx.

    (What scares me is that you work on embedded systems and have never heard of it. I've never even touched embedded systems work and I know about it.)

  17. The scariest moment of my life... by STFS · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... well ok, not quite, but still! There's an ATM at my school which embodies the mother of all WTFs in my oppinion. It's a DIEBOLD ATM with a _headphone jack_ which usually displays the Windows XP login screen with a big error message saying that the bank domain is not available! If you think I'm making this up I wish to present to you... the evidence: http://www.dumpt.com/img/viewer.php?file=wmbbbwi8otsxgqlmi93u.jpg

    --
    You don't think enough... therefore you better not be!
    1. Re:The scariest moment of my life... by GNU(slash)Nickname · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a DIEBOLD ATM with a _headphone jack_

      The headphone jack is an assistive device. It's sometimes called a "talking ATM". The idea is that a blind person can be prompted through the screens. (Notice the braille dots near the jack.)

      But yeah, the domain not available thing is funny.

  18. Might not be so crazy by tjstork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Windows 3.11 wasn't a truly multitasking operating system, so that, if an application was doing something in between Windows messages, it genuinely owned the whole machine. If you are doing a near real time system, you probably don't want to lose a time slot in the middle of a roller coaster ride so that some other daemon could fire off and do something else. So yeah, Windows 3.11 might actually work rather well, so long as the application wasn't trying to allocate too many resource handles.

    Actually, I wonder why MS wouldn't release a non-preemptive Windows, just for this purpose. It would be a lot more reliable for some applications.

    --
    This is my sig.
  19. Cell block 1138 (n/t) by XanC · · Score: 4, Funny

    (n/t)

  20. Poor Quality Writing by hoofie · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The writer of this article is making an assumption and then wandering around to find ANY justification. His specific example Number 5 [Train control] - he basically 'thinks' that a train is controlled by Window based on a converesation with someone and then looks for a justification for his opinion. No-where in the PDF he links does it say the train control system runs on Windows. It does say that the external plug-in management software is based on Windows [on a laptop I presume] but so what ? - that's common for many out-of-band management tools. I'm no windows fan at all [I think in the embedded sphere it's not advisable] but this article smacks of sensationalist and badly-researched reporting.

  21. Are you trolling or just stupid? by Xtifr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    With Linux there is no accountability.

    I don't know if you're a troll or an idiot, but the end result is the same. This is utter and complete bullshit.

    My company wouldn't have several dozen fully-paid-up RHEL server licenses if we weren't damn sure who was accountable. We'd slap CentOS or something similar up and save a few bucks.

    And if Linux isn't good enough for you, you go with something solid and reliable like Solaris or maybe AIX or possibly (depending on the application) a stripped-down high-reliablility embedded OS. You don't go with some rinky-dink toy like Windows. That's bordering on negligence right there. You can't sue Lego if you rebuild your car's chassis using their plastic bricks, and then get in a auto accident and discover you have no crumple zone. It's not Lego's fault you tried to do something insanely stupid. Using Windows for any sort of critical app where people's lives may be at risk is nearly as stupid and negligent as driving around with nothing but small plastic bricks between you and the SUV in the next lane.

    (This story so obviously needed a car analogy.) :)