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Viacom Looks For Google Staff Uploads in YouTube Logs

Barence writes "Viacom wants to know which YouTube videos have been uploaded by members of Google's staff, in what could be a potentially explosive aspect of its copyright infringement claim against the search giant."

25 of 308 comments (clear)

  1. Pointless... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What Viacom is doing is absolutely pointless. Want to make money? Have free downloads of *all* your shows on your website. And upload a bunch on YouTube too, why? Because YouTube is an easy way to watch videos, and I believe that Google will pay you to have ads in your videos.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Pointless... by mark72005 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why would someone download video clips with embedded ads if there were another source for the same clips without the ads?

      There's going to be a showdown here, because i don't think the internet ads model generates a lot of revenue. Naturally Viacom wants people watching their programs on TV only so they can keep ratings up and TV ad revenues up.

      I'm not a fan of Viacom's behavior either, but it seems strange to suggest that they would make more money that way.

    2. Re:Pointless... by pieterh · · Score: 5, Informative

      Well, SouthParkStudios.com proves this. But Viacom is not interested in looking for new business models. They are looking to protect their existing business models, and YouTube hurts these.

      The thing is, it's not sharing clips that hurts Viacom's business. That probably helps, free publicity for programs.

      What hurts Viacom is user-generated content: eyeballs going to watch stuff that is produced totally outside the normal distribution model.

      So Viacom is not IMO trying to protect its copyrighted content. What it wants to do is scare people who use YouTube into thinking "my personal data ain't safe", to create a chilling effect that will stop user-created content.

      Imagine if Viacom had been infiltrated by Scientologists and they could now get access to logs of who uploaded, and who watched, videos by Anonymous. It's not likely but the mere idea this could happen will drive some people away, fracture the community, and make passive TV watching seem safer again.

      OTOH, Viacom, not being an Internet company, does not realize that this kind of attack on a community always has the exact opposite effect.

      So the result will be a hundred new video sharing sites, and a much more difficult situation for Viacom, both for copyright takedowns, and for competition to their programming.

    3. Re:Pointless... by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why would someone download video clips with embedded ads if there were another source for the same clips without the ads?

      Why would someone use an OS that is proprietary and expensive when there is a free OS that is open source and costs nothing? Convenience. Same idea here, people will go where it is convenient, be it Viacom's site, YouTube or TPB.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    4. Re:Pointless... by Reality+Master+101 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What Viacom is doing is absolutely pointless. Want to make money? Have free downloads of *all* your shows on your website. And upload a bunch on YouTube too, why? Because YouTube is an easy way to watch videos, and I believe that Google will pay you to have ads in your videos.

      That's like a movie theater making an illegal print of a movie, showing it in their theaters, then sending a token $1 for each showing back to the theater. And when the studios complain, they say, "Shaddup. What are you complaining about? You're making money, aren't you?"

      Maybe Viacom (and anyone else) want to be able to decide where their work shows and how much money it makes.

      --
      Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
    5. Re:Pointless... by pieterh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Totally unscientific survey: my 4-year old daughter prefers to browse YouTube than television. Admittedly she tends to follow pop videos. But she prefers the mouse to the TV remote.

      If it's true that people use YouTube to watch clips from TV programs, then Viacom are even stupider than I thought...

      But stupid or not, this seems to be the start of the TV industry joining the music and movie and telecoms businesses in attacking the open Internet.

      I wonder what kind of Internet my daughter will have when she grows up.

    6. Re:Pointless... by Captain+Hook · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think the internet ads model generates a lot of revenue. Naturally Viacom wants people watching their programs on TV only so they can keep ratings up and TV ad revenues up.

      I've always wondered about that. If internet advertising doesn't work, why does TV advertising? I suppose it could just be audience size, but if advertisers are so good at their job, why can't they produce more tailored ad campaigns for a more fractured audience given how much more (potentially at least) they know about the person seeing the ad.

      The one thing Internet advertising has given ad managers is more accurate information on response rates. How do you measure TV response rate, the number of people phoning a number asking for a product after a advert goes out? that would seem to give vague numbers at best.

      Perhaps it's just more honest response rate which are harder to hide that ad managers dislike about Internet advertising.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    7. Re:Pointless... by jwriney · · Score: 5, Funny

      I wonder what kind of Internet my daughter will have when she grows up.

      Don't worry, it'll still have porn on it.

      --riney

    8. Re:Pointless... by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've been using hulu.com for a lot of stuff. I really don't mind the ads playing every 15 minutes or so. They're unobtrusive, no louder than the show, and they're not the same one every time. Plus the quality is substantially higher than youtube even if the selection isn't quite the same. It's how I get my Daily Show fix every day. The only trouble is the money goes to Mark Cuban but it's a small price to pay.

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    9. Re:Pointless... by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He is suggesting no such thing.

      Viacom bought the relevant law: the DMCA. Now they are mad because
      they have to use it in order to get stuff purged from YouTube.

      Viacom is upset because they have to use the law that they bought
      and paid for. Boo hoo.

      This is NOT about letting the shoplifters run amok in the candy store.

      This is about Cadbury going house to house with stormtroopers.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  2. Good! by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While I dislike the action, it gives Google (and ever other major corporation) a reason to care about my privacy rights. Hate the means; love the ends.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  3. common sense by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Now I'm no expert, but it seems like if your company is involved in a lawsuit with Corporation X, you probably shouldn't patronize the services of Corporation X, or you might lose your job.

    Common sense aside, uploading copyrighted videos is clearly against any corporate internet use policy. Why should Google be held liable for the illegal actions of its employees? It's not like Google encouraged its employees to upload the Daily Show. If that doesn't hold up in court, you just got yourself a convenient way to screw your employer (convenient if, for example, you were planning on leaving the country).

    --
    An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
    1. Re:common sense by OscarBlock · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I think Google should check to see if any of Viacom's staff have been uploading videos while they are at it. Could be interesting...

  4. Why a potentially explosive aspect? by free+space · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it was uploaded by Google's staff as part of their paid job, then yes, Google is intentionally infringing their copyright.
    But why would Google be blamed for an employee acting on his own to upload something?

    1. Re:Why a potentially explosive aspect? by Hatta · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What I want to know is how many Viacom owned clips were uploaded by Viacom employees. I bet there were more uploaded by Viacom employees than Google employees.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    2. Re:Why a potentially explosive aspect? by randalotto · · Score: 4, Informative

      Let me try that again: So long as what they were doing was connected to work, (which uploading videos on their own service likely is,) or was a mere "detour," as opposed to an independent "frolic," Google could easily be on the hook. It's called vicarious liability, or respondeat superior. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vicarious_liability

    3. Re:Why a potentially explosive aspect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      In the Viacom board room:

      "One of our own employees is uploading to YouTube? I don't know who this Jon Stewart guy is, but I want his head on a silver platter!"

  5. Staff posting? by Wowsers · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would staff be posting Viacom material from their work place? More likely if any video was posted to Youtube, they would do it from their homes, which are NOT under googles (or any other employers) control. Viacom could therefore go jump at making tenuous connections between being employed by company x, and company x endorsing some behaviour.

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  6. How about looking for Viacom employees? by atari2600 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Surely there must be a few viacom employees (or employees of its partners) who have either watched or uploaded or both (and I am talking about copyrighted crap) videos to Youtube. How about looking for them?

    Hell how about looking for MS employees? or Boeing? Might as well look for everything..Good luck Viacom /spit.

    1. Re:How about looking for Viacom employees? by jdunlevy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Contraire: if material that Viacom says infringes were shown to have been uploaded by Viacom, Google could argue that either it doesn't infringe, or that Viacom was, in essence, trying to entrap Google/YouTube...

  7. Hoist on own petard by autophile · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'll bet Google is thinking that maybe keeping identifiable logs isn't such a good idea now...

    --
    Towards the Singularity.
  8. Missing the point by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So they're looking for Google employees doing the uploading, at Google (as determined by IP addresses).

    If someone's employee goes above and beyond the call of duty to help you, that reflects on them as a company.

    If the employee screws you over, that reflects on them as a company. Say a middle manager denies you your refund on a defective product. Now, to listen to several people above, "What problem is it of the store's that the manager ignored consumer protection laws?" - should the manager be sued or personally liable? Of course you'd go after the company.

    If you get screwed by an employee out of their mandate (say, copying your credit card number down, something clearly not in their job description), you still don't go after the person. You'd be suing their employer for the actions of their employee on the job. Vicarious liability. (Of course, the employee would also be guilty of criminal charges.) Any loss inflicted on the company would either be picked up by civil suit between employer and employee or professional insurance, etc.

    Why would this be any different?

    1. Re:Missing the point by danzona · · Score: 5, Informative

      I read TFA, and according to the article, the logic goes something like this:

      Viacom: YouTube shows our copyrighted material. Google, you own YouTube and a lot of money, give us some of your money or else.
      Google: Safe Harbor defense! Under the DMCA, we can't be held liable if somebody else posts copyrighted material on a site we host, if we don't know that these strangers are posting copyrighted material.

      So Viacom thinks that if they can show that Google employees knowing posted copyrighted materials to YouTube, then Google won't be covered by the Safe Harbor defense.

      This is what TFA says. I have no idea if that is what Viacom is actually doing, or if it would even work. But it is interesting.

  9. Re:Right... by pin0chet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I agree that YouTube is an excellent way to popularize Viacom's content, but that's not the only business concern of relevance here.

    Viacom wants to use YouTube-esque short clips of its videos as a revenue source. And, if Google's employees are uploading infringing content, then YouTube may be actively hampering Viacom's ability to earn ad revenue from its original works. Comedy Central, for example, offers years of Daily Show, Colbert Report, and South Park clips that are supported by ads. YouTube is likely limiting Viacom's ability to capitalize on its intellectual property by substituting for Viacom's in-house video service. That is textbook copyright infringement.

  10. information you don't have by Presto+Vivace · · Score: 4, Insightful

    is information you don't have to protect.