Phoenix Mars Lander To Begin Rasping Ice Shavings

Rob writes with an excerpt from an article at spacefellowship.com: "A powered rasp on the back of the robotic arm scoop of NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander is being tested for the first time on Mars in gathering sample shavings of ice. The lander has used its arm in recent days to clear away loose soil from a subsurface layer of hard-frozen material and create a large enough area to use the motorized rasp in a trench informally named 'Snow White.' The Phoenix team prepared commands early Tuesday for beginning a series of tests with the rasp later in the day. Engineers and scientists designed the tests to lead up to, in coming days, delivering a sample of icy soil into one of the lander's laboratory ovens. 'While Phoenix was in development, we added the rasp to the robotic arm design specifically to grind into very hard surface ice,' said Barry Goldstein, Phoenix project manager at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 'This is the exactly the situation we find we are facing on Mars, so we believe we have the right tool for the job. Honeybee Robotics in New York City did a heroic job of designing and delivering the rasp on a very short schedule.'" I still can't get enough of pictures of a little hunk of metal on Mars.

Comments

Universe's most expensive snow cone

[elrous0]

And you don't even get cherry flavoring.

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[192939495969798999]

In my day, we ate our rust-flavored snow cones and we liked 'em!

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[scuba_steve_1]

Phoenix Mars Lander To Begin Rasping Ice Shavings


Jesus, first huffing and now this. Will these youngsters ever learn?

I predict a short life if he continues on this road.

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Arthur Grumbine]

"Rust-flavored snow cones"!?!? If I could have been so lucky! In my day we had to build our own Lander out of asbestos and lead-based paint, and all it had to rasp was rust-cicles. We thought ourselves lucky to have asbestos/lead-paint flavored rust cones!

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[dotancohen]

Jesus, first huffing and now this. Will these youngsters ever learn?

I would have thought they'd learn when the wrist started hurting

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Anonymous Coward]

Rust-flavored?

Luxury!!!

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[daveX99]

Well, I'm hoping they were able to use commodity, off-the-shelf parts.

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Chris Burke]

In my day, we ate our rust-flavored snow cones and we liked 'em!

In my day they we didn't have the snow, they were just paper cones filled with rust!

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[pragma_x]

Cones!? You had cones?

Try using your shoe, lad. That's all we did. All the paper was used for clothing in those days, and that wasn't even the good stuff.

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[elrous0]

..and during the War, we didn't even have the PAPER!

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Chris Burke]

Try using your shoe, lad.

Couldn't, I'd eaten them for lunch the week before!

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[pitu]

YOU lucky bastards !

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Captain Nitpick]

Shoes? You spoiled brats had shoes to put your rust-cones in? In my day we would have given our left arm for shoes. Well, we would, except we had already had them torn off by wild dogs.

We had to saw the tops of our heads off with stone tools and use our skulls as bowls. And in those days, you had to eat your rust-cone fast, so you could get your skull back on your head before the ravens started trying to eat your brain. The bone would still be cold, so you got brain freeze from two sides.

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Anonymous Coward]

I live on the 66 parallel. what's this word "snow"??? I heard my granddad mention it in passing, but I've never seen it? Now, where's my SUV?

Re:Universe's most expensive snow cone

[Anonymous Coward]

Right....

In OUR day we used to have to fly off to Florida half an hour before we got into bed, work 36 hours a day down t'assembly building, making t'lander out of our skin, bone and teeth, and pay t'NASA for the privilege.

When it were finished we used to have to stand under t'launch rocket, tied to the fins with rope made of our own hair, get hauled into orbit, take a deep breath and RUN to Mars, then cushion the lander with our bodies as it fell out of orbit.

Then, we used to have to carve martian rocks into wheels, make a buggy, push it as fast as we could up the slopes of Olympus Mons, shoot off into orbit and fly back to Earth, using our trousers as ablation shields.

And when we got back the President would beat us to death with a Congressional Medal of Honor and dance on our graves.

And you try to tell the astronauts of today, they won't believe you....

Sublimation?

[WmLGann]

I thought I read that the first ice that was uncovered sublimated over night. In fact I recall that was what made the scientists sure that the white rocks were ice. I would think that shavings made by a rasp (rather, a 5-figure space age rasp-like device developed by a subcontractor that wasn't Craftsman or Snap-on) would sublimate rather quickly. What am I missing?

Re:Sublimation?

[Nyago]

From Phoenix's Twitter page:

MarsPhoenix: Team wants to see how quickly test shavings sublimate (turn to vapor) to help them estimate how quickly I need to move real samples to oven.

Re:Sublimation?

[necro81]

The sublimation they noticed was subtle, not total. The ice the rover uncovered didn't sublimate completely away, it just diminished enough for them to notice it. In this case, they'll gather the sample and process it quickly enough that they'll still have a fair bit to work with.

Re:Sublimation?

[loafula]

I would hope that NASA considered this already. I imagine that the rasp will loosen a sufficient enough quantity so that the ice won't completely sublimate by the time it reaches the testing oven. Sure some will, but hopefully not all of it.

Also, I believe what is important here is not necessarily the H2O ice itself, but what else is contained within it. Even if the ice sublimates, all the minerals, salts, and creepy-crawlies should be left behind.

Re:Sublimation?

[Iowan41]

You aren't missing anything. They have planned out how to quickly get the shavings of ice and permafrost into the wet lab as fast as possible, just because of that.

Re:Sublimation?

[zobier]

Also From Phoenix's Twitter page:

Bio I dig Mars!

Har har.

But seriously, it's pretty cool that Phoenix has a Twitter page.

What makes this rasp extra special?

[oldspewey]

Honeybee Robotics in New York City did a heroic job of designing and delivering the rasp on a very short schedule

Not to diminish the difficulty of getting something as complex as Phoenix onto the surface of Mars, but seriously how tricky is it to deliver a rasp on a short schedule? I can drive to the nearest Home Depot in about 10 minutes.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[eebra82]

Quiet you, or the Russians might get ahead of us again!

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[geomobile]

Probably has to be custom made to fit all sorts of geometric, weight, material composition, etc. requirements. Plus a lengthy formal process for quality checking etc.

What I find interesting is the ongoing semantic deterioration of the word heroic.

All hail our heroic... ahm... rasp deliverers!

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[tolgyesi]

I think the rasp from Home Depot is so cheap because we make up for tool simplicity with smart hands. The rover must do the job of human fingers and collect the material as well.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can they also give you a 200 million mile long handle?

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

Heroic is being used instead of brave, steadfast, noble, and now, even assidious, thus making the possessors of any such qualities heroes by default.

It's too much these days to expect everyone to know the meaning of all those other words. On the other hand, after 9/11, everybody knows the meaning of heroes. Or do they?

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[mmontour]

Not to diminish the difficulty of getting something as complex as Phoenix onto the surface of Mars, but seriously how tricky is it to deliver a rasp on a short schedule? I can drive to the nearest Home Depot in about 10 minutes.

According to a program I saw on the Discovery channel, the tool bit itself was actually purchased from a regular hardware store.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Chris Burke]

On the other hand, after 9/11, everybody knows the meaning of heroes. Or do they?

Hmm, let me think who the people consider heroes...
Professionals who risked their lives entering a disaster area to rescue people... Yes.
Civilians who rushed to the scene to do whatever they could to help... Perhaps.
Politico who stood around with a bullhorn telling people to keep doing what they already were doing... No.

Yeah, I think everyone has a pretty good grip on what constitutes a hero. :)

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it's a 'heroic job' simply because 'heckuva job' dosent seem right somehow.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[dotancohen]

All hail our heroic... ahm... rasp deliverers!

I for one welcome our heroic... OH FUCK IT!

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, you have it wrong...

Any American who gets hurt - a Hero

A suicide attacker who skillfully strikes a great blow at the heart of his enemy - Cowardly Snivelling Bastard

A suicide attacker who skillfully strikes a great blow at the heart of his enemy in 'Independence Day' - a Hero

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[steelfood]

Not to pick on you specifically, but you're the perfect example of someone whose understanding of hero is by and large accurate, but vague.

Heroes are people (or animals, sentient creatures to be most broad) recognized for putting their lives on the line to do something meaningful for others. Heroes sometimes are rewarded for their actions with only death--not even success necessarily. And yes, there are various degrees of heroism, and to further complicate matters, various degrees of recognition for heroism.

As well, there's a distinction between being heroic, brave, and plain foolhardy, though by no means are the former and latter two attributes mutally exclusive. In particular, heroic acts are done for the benefit of others, often with no or highly disproportionate previously agreed upon compensation. Brave and foolhardy acts, whose distinction lies in whether the actor is competent or otherise, do not have this additonal stipulation.

Any use of hero in a context outside of such a situation not only dilutes the meaning of heroism, but insults the people who are truly heroes. As for why such a dilution happened in the first place, I suspect it has to do with the common aphorism, "You're my hero!" which is indended to mean, "I aspire to be like you." The common use of the phrase, corrupted "hero" to mean anyone who is worthy of anyone's idolatry.

To directly reply, it doesn't really matter whether someone is a professional or an amateur, so long as the intended effect is accomplished. Granted, amateurs are less likely to assist because they know they're more often a liability than of any actual help. But putting on a uniform does not automatically make someone a hero, and vice versa, the lack of formal training doesn't automatically disqualify someone from being a hero or doing something heroic. In fact, I'd argue having a uniform would actually raise the bar for heroism, as most actions considered heroic if done by a passerby would be merely a part of the job for a trained and paid professional. And yes, politicians are the farthest removed from any standard of heroism, as much as anyone else who sits in an armchair and does little else but talk.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[pragma_x]

Probably has to be custom made to fit all sorts of geometric, weight, material composition, etc. requirements.

Exactly. They should've gone with the already proven, and venerable, inanimate carbon rod.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Chris Burke]

Not to pick on you specifically, but you're the perfect example of someone whose understanding of hero is by and large accurate, but vague.

Yes, because a 5 line post was intended to be precise.

To directly reply, it doesn't really matter whether someone is a professional or an amateur, so long as the intended effect is accomplished.

My comment was not in any way intended to imply that. It was a simple statement of fact as to what happened. Firemen went into the building to rescue people. Civies didn't. If anything, it should have implied that being a professional, and thus simply doing your job, does not prevent you from being a hero in the course of said job.

The actual distinction I (and by extension from my assertion that this is how "the people" feel, everyone) was making is exactly the same as the only non-vague definition you gave, which is that being a hero is putting your life on the line to help others.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[steelfood]

Unfortunately, I have to disagree. The average person really doesn't have a good idea of what constitutes heroism. The average person has the vague idea that somebody who does something unusual worthy of acclaimation is a hero, but I don't think most people would be able to get very far beyond that. The media's purposeful distortion of the word for the sake of sensationalism doesn't help at all. But when producing a deliverable on-time and within budget can be heroic to a, I presume, well-educated person as in TFA, I think it is rather illustrative of the sad state of the people indeed.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Chris Burke]

No, I think the average person makes a distinction between using hero in the truly honorific sense like when they describe a fireman carrying a child out of a fallen tower, and in the media-weakened non-serious sense that it is used in phrases like "Guitar Hero". Words have different meanings in different contexts. Ask the average person if they think the usage in the nasa article is the same as when they describe a 9/11 rescue worker. If they say yes, then you're right. If they say no, you're being a particularly unuseful kind of pedant.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to diminish the difficulty of getting something as complex as Phoenix onto the surface of Mars, but seriously how tricky is it to deliver a rasp on a short schedule? I can drive to the nearest Home Depot in about 10 minutes.

Yes but for quality reasons this rasp was forged in the fires of Mount Doom.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[dedazo]

And billed out at $7,300, no doubt.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[steelfood]

Better yet, ask them for a definition of a hero. See whether they come up with a vague, idol-type of definition, or whether they can consciously make the distinction. I would give you that if they could figure out the more specific definition of hero even if it took them hours or days, that they would fall into the category of knowing what hero means. But I think most people would present the vague one and call it quits.

It's like the short video experiment on seeing how many college students know the definition of suffrage by asking them to sign a petition against women's suffrage. A few actually ask what suffrage means, and some even know the definition of the word, but the majority just sign and assume suffrage means suffering.

Just because something is hovering at the edge of our consciousness doesn't mean we're actually conscious of it. And the farther a concept leaves our consciousness, the faster it disappears.

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone who knows and respects the idea of a hero would use the word so nonchalantly. It's the notion of having a "common" usage, and the rise of this usage, that I maintain insults true heroes. Certainly, you are entitled to your ad hominem as you see fit, but even if I am being pedantic, I think this is something worthy of being pedantic for.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Chris Burke]

It's like the short video experiment on seeing how many college students know the definition of suffrage by asking them to sign a petition against women's suffrage.

You're comparing the word hero to a word like suffrage in terms of common knowledge? Really?

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone who knows and respects the idea of a hero would use the word so nonchalantly.

I disagree, I think it's perfectly fine just like it's fine to use the word "tragedy" to describe things less awful than the Holocaust. It's commonly understood that you're talking about a different scale.

More to the point, I know and respect the idea of a hero, and I will use the word nonchalantly as well. Proof by example if you will.

Certainly, you are entitled to your ad hominem as you see fit, but even if I am being pedantic, I think this is something worthy of being pedantic for.

If you're going to be pedantic, and you are, don't use the phrase ad hominem as a replacement for the word insult. Saying you're being an un-useful pedantic was not part of the argument, it was the conclusion.

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[zobier]

Someone who commits suicide and becomes notorious on the interweb - an Hero

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

Although it wandered a bit from a rasp on mars, you make a good point on heroism, but I would defiantly want to emphasis "foolhardy" there. Rushing into a dangerous situation without the appropriate training and tools == another victim. (most of the time, some people get lucky, but that to my mind != hero, just lucky fool)

Re:What makes this rasp extra special?

[Anonymous Coward]

That is correct.

Is Slashdot NASA's RSS feed?

[ghoti]

This is the second story today on the Mars Lander. How many more will we see? Sure it's interesting, but Phoenix can't be the only news on this site.

Re:Is Slashdot NASA's RSS feed?

[Anonymous Coward]

One wonders if 'ghoti (60903)' resolves to any green eyed resident of the ISS?

Re:Is Slashdot NASA's RSS feed?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can only assume this is satire of all the complaints about iPhone posts found on many blogs. I have to assume that because otherwise it's just stupid.

Re:Is Slashdot NASA's RSS feed?

[bondjamesbond]

You read it wrong. We are "News for Mars, Stuff that Gathers", you insensitive clod.

Re:Is Slashdot NASA's RSS feed?

[fotoguzzi]

"If only the soil on Mars would clod . . . ," rasped an insensitive NASA engineer.

Re:let's see the european space agency do that

[KasperMeerts]

Every citizen of Europe gives 60 times less to the ESA a year than a citizen of the USA gives to the NASA a year. And even the NASA doesn't get as much as it should get.
I think the ESA does quite well.

Picture quality

[FaytLeingod]

How do we get excellent color pics of the eguipment and surroundings and everytime there's some interesting stuff like the ice it's in black and white?

Re:Picture quality

[brunokummel]

How do we get excellent color pics of the eguipment and surroundings and everytime there's some interesting stuff like the ice it's in black and white?

How many colors one expects to see on a martian ice rasping ?

Re:Picture quality

[Born2bwire]

Filters. The camera is not black and white but is actually sensitive to light across a wide spectrum. When they want to take a picture of a specific range of light, they use a filter to remove all the extraneous wavelengths. In this manner, they use a series of filters in the visible region to get an idea for the color content across narrow spectrums and use that to reproduce a full color image. Like the way that a monitor only uses red, green, and blue to reproduce a full color picture (although this works mainly because our eyes are mainly sensitive to those three colors).

Re:Picture quality

[Born2bwire]

Well crap, once again I can't read. I need sleepies. So why don't we make my post relevant that in addition to the standard light wavelength filters there is also a "fun" filter. Anything that isn't fun shows up in black and white so that you know you can ignore it. I mean, who wants to look at a picture of ice, I think we've seen that before.

Machines on Mars

[Anonymous Coward]

For some reason, every time I hear something about the Mars rovers I picture a couple of Daleks wandering about on a red desert.

Re:Machines on Mars

[backslash_forward]

For some reason, every time I hear something about the Mars rovers I picture a couple of Daleks wandering about on a red desert.

Oh no! Not the Daleks! I think I hear them coming -- "Destroy...Destroy...Destroy..."

Pap Smear

[Hoplite3]

Wait ... Rasp ... Snow White's trench ... Mars is getting a pap smear! She's really into preventative medicine.

Re:Pap Smear

[steelfood]

I can't wait for videos of when they start drilling into it.

Re:Pap Smear

[dotancohen]

I can't wait for videos of when they start drilling into it.

You are aware that they are doing all this with the hope of finding a few little green dwarfs, right?

Re:Pap Smear

[Anonymous Coward]

With a line like "use the motorized rasp in a trench informally named 'Snow White.'" I'm wondering who's already scored this with a pr0n soundtrack.

Ice shavings

[rarel]

Fuck everything, we're doing five blades!

Re:Ice shavings

[dotancohen]

Fuck everything, we're doing five blades!

I don't care if the engineer has to put one vertical!

Re:Ice shavings

[kyknos.org]

We have landed on Titan :)

Well, Good.

[moondawg14]

I was hoping one there would be one of those dilapidated "Hawaiian Shave Ice" stands waiting for me when I got to Mars.

Not only are they heroic...

[denzacar]

They are also modest and humble.

There is absolutely no mention of all those technicians that gave their lives so that Phoenix Mars Lander could get it's rasp on time.
We should all honor them with a moment of silence and contemplation about how many men and women are no longer with us cause they gave the ultimate sacrifice.
Those greatest among us, that willingly fell in dozens - for each single one of the rasp's teeth.

Concerned...

[stoofa]

This won't hurt the poor thing's wrist will it?

oblig.

[MRe_nl]

Phoenix was a NASA 'bot,
But Phoenix is no more.
What Phoenix thought was H20
was H2SO4

Re:oblig.

[Myself337]

Sulfuric acid. I had to look it up...

Pieces and parts

[fahrbot-bot]

Looking at the photo I have to ask: are those rubber bands holding down (what looks to be) the data cable on the top if the robotic arm?

More pictures from NASA

[digital bath]

There are some more good photos of the pre- and post-launch rover up at www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/phoenix/images/new-latest-images-collection_archive_1.html. I especially like this one - I'd thought the rover was quite a bit smaller than that!

Just great! First contact and...

[MenThal]

...we serve up some slushie to the green little Martians, giving them a major brain-freeze (with their oversized heads and brains) which they of course consider an act of war. Que the invading and the probing and the running and the screaming...

Wow

[hotsauce]

Wow, now even planetary landers have Twitter pages?!

Jeeze, I am so out of touch...

I don't know but I would guess

[Kupfernigk]

Something like viton. There are some really exotic fluoropolymers about with remarkable properties, and they turn up all over the place especially in O-rings. I keep an emergency supply of viton rings for fixing weeps in metal to metal olive joints, as they can withstand everything from hotlubricating oil with additives through to vacuum with UV.

Re:I don't know but I would guess

[fahrbot-bot]

Something like viton...they can withstand everything from hot lubricating oil with additives through to vacuum with UV.

Sounds like a date I once had...

Re:let's see the european space agency do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Come on...if even slashdotters can't get it right, how can we expect the journalists to do so:

60 times less implies
x - 60x = -59x

Somehow I doubt the ESA pays back every citizen 59 times what the average American pays in taxes for NASA. That's an expensive way to run a space agency.

Surely you meant 1/60th?

Re:let's see the european space agency do that

[zobier]

We know what he meant.

(in b4 don't feed the troll)

Low signal in article

[mrmeval]

The NASA press release, http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-133

The company that made the scoop and rasp, some very good pictures.
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2008-133