What Does It Take To Get a PC With XP?

An anonymous reader writes "Christopher Null tried to buy a computer with Windows XP pre-installed on it from the United States' nine biggest PC makers. His findings: You can get one, but be prepared to fib."

Comments

That's Microsoft for you

[Anonymous Coward]

They are so friendly and customer-focused that you have to jump through hoops to get the product that you want. Why do we put up with this shit when we wouldn't accept this from almost any other industry?

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[iminplaya]

We accept this from almost every industry. Automobiles, appliances, internet services, telephone service, cell phone services(pay to receive calls? You all are nuts to swallow that), and most of all your government. Everybody complains like hell, but they keep on buying the BS.

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[danbert8]

The problem with your car analogy is that you can still buy a Jag XJ220 used. It is illegal to resell old copies of Windows XP for use in new computers. Now if Microsoft were to allow that, it might not be such a big deal.

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[iminplaya]

Well, when I'm at a bar, the bartender usually keeps on bringing me more beer when he sees my glass is almost empty until I say "when". I call it "opt out". The system works.

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[pixelpusher220]

Yeah but do you want 4 grocery sales guys sitting in your kitchen watching you drink milk? ;-)

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[Lumpy]

cripes,. you can buy OEM copies of XP all over the place.

go to newegg.com and buy a oem copy and a mouse.

All done. Why did this even get to slashdot?

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[Roberticus]

When I worked QA in a dairy, we put cow's milk in the cartons. What we did not do was arbitrarily switch to putting soy milk in the cartons, and then require customers to call the grocery store and beg to get cow's milk (which would only be allowed if you were a restaurant).

Re:That's Microsoft for you

[Anonymous Coward]

Americans PAY to receive cellphone calls? Can someone confirm that? Do people find this ridiculous, or is this commonly accepted?

Yes, it's true, and it's commonly accepted. The reason is a bit long.

Historically, cell phone service cost quite a bit more to provide than landline service, so someone has to pay more when a cell phone is part of a call.

Most of the world has taken the view that the caller should pay more when calling a cell phone, and that the cell phone recipient shouldn't pay for the call.

In the USA, people have long been used to making unlimited local calls on landlines.

Unlike many countries, cell phones in the USA (and Canada) do not have a reserved numbering scheme where the phone number clearly identifies that this number is a cell phone.

It was tried to have a reserved numbering scheme to identify cell phones and charge the caller more for calling a cell phone. The market overwhelmingly rejected it. People said, "You want me to pay more to call you on your cell phone? Get a real phone you piece of [censored] yuppie!" and refused to call. For market acceptance, the caller could not be charged extra to call a cell phone.

So, the only other person to charge for the call was the cell phone owner.

So, US cellphone ownwers pay to make & receive calls. On the other hand, it doesn't cost more to call a cellphone instead of a landline, and it usually costs less to make an outgoing call from a cell phone.

Frankly, many of you non-USians are getting screwed on calls. I once called my friend on her mobile in Sydney, Australia. My call had to cross the entire Pacific ocean, but I still paid less to talk to her than her mother (located in Sydney, Australia) does to call her on her mobile. Why? Competition and not having to deal with the local oligopoly.

Further, cellphone calls are getting very cheap in the US. Many carriers have unlimited plans for $100 USD or less - unlimited incoming & outgoing local calls, domestic long distance, data, and SMS.

Obvious answer?

[neokushan]

An Internet connection.

Torrent

[courteaudotbiz]

1. Buy a PC
2. Download Windows XP through your favorite Torrent site
3. Install Windows XP
4. Enjoy...

Article is slashdotted. Here is a mirror:

[Anonymous Coward]

What does it take to get a PC with XP?
Our reporter tried to buy a computer with Windows XP preinstalled on it from the United States' nine biggest PC makers. His findings: You can get one, but be prepared to fib.
Christopher Null (PC World (US online)) 17/07/2008 15:58:43

I won't waste time rehashing the argument over whether Windows Vista is any good. The fact remains that lots of people prefer Windows XP, and they'll go to great lengths to get it.

The problem: Windows XP "officially" went off the market on June 30, 2008, and computer vendors aren't supposed to sell new machines configured with any version of Windows except Vista.

Fortunately for XP enthusiasts and Vista vetoers, the PC marketplace still has a loophole or two in it. In response to pressure from customers, Microsoft has made some concessions for people who really want XP, offering a lifeline for users willing and able to wade through the company's convoluted downgrading program. The upshot is that virtually every copy of Vista Business or Vista Ultimate Edition is sold with a license for XP, which a computer manufacturer can exercise to install XP Professional on any Vista Business or Vista Ultimate PC.

But just because a manufacturer can install XP doesn't mean that it will. And just because its official policy permits it to sell XP machines doesn't mean that its employees understand that policy.

To find out how difficult it is to get a new XP machine these days, I asked the nine largest PC vendors in the United States--Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, Acer, Fujitsu, Lenovo, Sony, and Asus--about the specifics of their downgrade policies. Then, to see how closely the official story synced up with the reality in the marketplace, I called sales representatives for each company and asked them whether I could purchase a new laptop equipped with XP from them.

The verdict? Downgrade policies are all over the map, and more than a few rank-and-file sales reps have a sketchy understanding of those policies. Some notebook PC sellers make getting XP preinstalled on a new laptop a snap; others don't offer it under any circumstance. As a rule of thumb, your odds of finding a machine with XP and a sales rep who knows how to configure a machine with that OS are far greater if you call the business sales line instead of the consumer sales line. (Be prepared to fib and say you're planning to buy 25 computers during the next 12 months.) Getting XP via online purchase can be tricky, too.

Here's how each manufacturer's formal policy--and informal reality--shakes out.

Dell

The Official Word: Dell has one of the most extensive and detailed policies on Windows XP of the nine vendors I investigated, but getting XP preinstalled on a machine may cost you extra. The company outlines the situation in this blog posting, where the company explains that though the XP downgrade program targets corporate customers, it's an option for general consumers, too. Though the rules are complicated, they are in line with those of most other sellers. To be eligible for an XP downgrade, you must be purchasing a Latitude laptop, an OptiPlex desktop, a Precision workstation, a Vostro laptop or desktop, an XPS 630 desktop, or an M1730 laptop. The machine must be specced to come with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate, and you can downgrade only to XP Professional. You must pay a $20 to $50 fee for the downgrade if you're buying a Vostro or XPS; corporate clients receive the downgrade at no charge. The program is slated to run until January 31, 2009, but Dell says that even after that it will continue to make some enterprise-level exceptions.

The Real Deal: Alas, not all Dell reps seemed to be up to speed on the company's XP strategy. First I tried to purchase an Inspiron running XP for "home use" (that's not covered in Dell's policy, but I decided to try my luck anyway). The harried sales rep I spoke to told me, "We don't have any computers running XP any more." After some pushing, he acknowledged that "I think business has them" but ins

Re:special favors

[MyLongNickName]

Hi. We were talking about how to get Windows XP, not your weekend plans.

Thanks.

Try different suppliers

[oldspewey]

TFA appears to be slashdotted, but I would suggest that it's just a matter of trying different (often smaller) suppliers until you find somebody who is willing to oblige. Smaller local shops can put together a system built exactly to your spec, and will happily install Windows XP, all drivers, test the entire rig before delivering it to you, and offer a warranty equivalent to the big boxes.

Vista vs XP

[lymond01]

Not that a large discussion needs to be had here as the article likely pertains (OCIDNRTFA) to home ownership, but I've chosen to start using Vista at work as of about 3 weeks ago.

And it's, uh, fine. I have 2 GB of memory installed, Vista boots up to use half of that. Firefox, Thunderbird, Photoshop, server admin tools, web design programs are what I use mostly (and putty). The re-install process of everything got a little old with the administrator prompts (I run as a normal user, something I was reluctant to do in XP), but at the same time, it's nice not to have to choose Run as... all the time.

We use it at home on a laptop as well (the kids' gaming machine is XP) and aside from taking 30 seconds to connect to the wireless after sleeping, it's fine.

I think I just don't have any really high-performance needs, so Vista actually works for me. Whole Disk encryption is easier as well with Vista I hear, though I don't use it.

Re:How is this difficult?

[Martin Blank]

Corporate customers get significant leeway in their orders, especially if a contract was signed beforehand. Even without those, however, most corporate customers have access through Microsoft to Windows XP under Open, Select, or Software Assurance licenses and if the Vista licenses that come with the computer fall under the terms of those agreements, they may legally downgrade. (There may be some other situations in which a customer may legally install a prior version of Windows, but I'm kind of fuzzy on what they may be.)

So backwards...

[Blice]

You: Hey Microsoft, can I give you money for your product?

Microsoft: No.

You: Please..?

Re:How is this difficult?

[KillerBob]

Go to the Dell website. Click on the computers (either notebook or desktop) for Small/Home Office, instead of for consumers. There, you'll find a product line called the Vostro, which offers the same hardware as the Inspiron line of product, but a different aesthetic look/feel. The difference? On the Vostro, you have an option to upgrade from Vista Home Basic to Vista Business edition... last I checked, it was $90. One of the two Business options is to have it come with XP Professional pre-installed.

It's not hard. You don't have to lie. You don't have to be a business to order it. And you can order it through the website without having to speak to a sales rep. (though you can also ask for it over the phone)

Re:With XP? How about without Windows?

[magarity]

It'd be great if some laptops were sold with a blank harddrive
 
You mean, "Isn't it great that plenty of laptops are sold with blank hard drives." Go to pricewatch.com and check the 'laptops, no OS' section or google for 'laptop barebones'. They'll all be the original brands, Clevo, Compal, Asus, etc, and not the reseller brands, Sony, Dell, HP, etc. But it'll be the same thing and cost less. What you get with the big names is 1: a support phone line, 2: the exact same laptop with a brand name sticker strangers will respect you for being able to afford and, of course 3: Windows.

Re:Why purchase XP at all?

[rsantmann]

I am an experienced software developer, and I have been installing and configuring computers for years (including DOS/Windows 3.11). While your experience may have been fine, rest assured that there are reasons why so many people hated Vista. "I have had nothing but problems with my Upgrade from Windows XP Pro to Windows Vista Business. The OS is plagued with driver and application issues, Windows Explorer takes ages for the most simple of tasks, the indexing service sucks up the hard disk even when the computer is in use, the user account control is endlessly nagging you, it is less stable than Windows XP (I get at least one blue screen of death every few days), the performance is absolutely abysmal for even the most mundane tasks, Windows doesn't turn on the screen half the time when resuming from standby, file sync doesn't work properly, indexing service wouldn't reinstall after uninstalling, none of my VPNs work properly, file search takes forever (with or without the indexing service turned on), when disabling and re-enabling my network card half the time the Disable button doesn't turn into a Enable button which requires me to reboot, the system restore wants to save the registry every time I boot (making it take forever), and an endless list of other annoying nuggets of lameness. I think the editor reviews that people wrote were after using it for a day or two. Sure, alot of the new features are cool, except none of them work correctly. Use it for a couple weeks and it will have you cursing non-stop."

Re:How is this difficult?

[brouski]

But you do have to pay extra for it, which is worse than having to lie to get it.

Only if your soul has no value.

Re:How is this difficult?

[cyphercell]

souls are a fiat currency - they have value so long as everyone *believes*.

Re:How is this difficult?

[Provocateur]

These come with ... a Vista license and disk to upgrade to Vista, should you ever want to.

And for some odd reason, the disk is wrapped in cloth, that when unfolded turns out to be a straitjacket bearing a warning label: You'll be needing this when *they* come to pick you up. And what appeared to be a EULA was actually some sort of release form...

Re:How is this difficult?

[Gewalt]

Wait, you're worried about the eternal ramifications of telling a mistruth... TO A SALESMAN?