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Apple Climbs Into Third Place In U.S. PC Market

Tibor the Hun writes "According to Gartner and IDC, Apple now has between 7.8 and 8.5% of market share. While those numbers are not astonishing, they are not insignificant, and their growth does not seem to be slowing down. Will the pearly gates of acceptance open up for them once they reach the magic 10%, and will that have a positive effect on desktop Linux adoption? Hard to tell, but it's good to see that normal people (not just us geeks) are choosing to go with a different OS, rather than staying with the headache-inducing Windows."

27 of 1,019 comments (clear)

  1. Normal People? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hard to tell, but it's good to see that normal people (not just us geeks) are choosing to go with a different OS, rather than staying with the headache-inducing Windows."

    And since when have Apple users been considered "normal" around here?

    Or did you really mean 'orthogonal'

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:Normal People? by paroneayea · · Score: 5, Insightful

      anyone who can't get Windows to run decently should be turning in their geek card already.

      Really? Seriously?

      Okay. I can get windows to run. Really, I can. That doesn't mean it isn't a fucking pain in the ass, a terrible user experience, and a waste of resources. Sorry, I have plenty of reasons to get headaches from windows. Not being geeky enough to handle it isn't one them.

      --
      http://mediagoblin.org/
    2. Re:Normal People? by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I argue that it's actually impossible to get Windows to run decently no matter how much of a geek you are because the software is written poorly and is designed to annoy the user.

      Ah, counterexamples, the one useful function of anecdotal evidence. I run Vista beautifully. It doesn't get in my way, it runs the software I want it to, it just works. So yes, it is possible. Without much effort, either, I might add.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    3. Re:Normal People? by mark72005 · · Score: 5, Funny

      I consider myself a brand whore first and batshit insane second.

    4. Re:Normal People? by truthsearch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I converted to Macs a few years ago and found the OS X interface to be the most intuitive I've ever used. The plus and minus signs at the bottom of lists seems obviously to imply add and remove.

      Windows always took me a while to learn the nuances. And then another version with a changed interface would force me to learn the changes. But with OS X I typically just ask myself how something should work and there it is, right where I'd expect it.

      So far I've found that most people's issues with learning the OS X interface is actually unlearning another interface.

    5. Re:Normal People? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You didn't see the "?" button on the Accounts pane? Clicking that clearly outlines what you need to know.

      The "+" and "-" and similar buttons are used almost universally and consistently throughout Mac OS X, Apple applications and 3rd party applications.

      It isn't about being pretty but consistent and directly useful/discoverable without clutter.

    6. Re:Normal People? by p0tat03 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a long-time Windows user who has since switched to both OS X and Linux...

      1 - Registry bloat. No other OS keeps app settings and preferences in what really amounts of a gigantic text file. Many apps do NOT remove registry entries correctly (or fully) when uninstalled. Inevitably this file will bloat, bloat, bloat, bloat until it takes forever just to get anything out of it.

      2 - System folder bloat. No package manager in Windows, yet things insist on storing dependencies in a shared manner. This is pain, since *nobody* dares remove any library from your system upon uninstall because nobody is sure if anyone else needs it. As you install/uninstall things from your system, this folder will bloat, bloat, bloat. It's incredible how much larger a Windows install can get just 1 year after a fresh reformat.

      These things are unavoidable. Your users may well have avoided these issues if their machines were locked like Fort Knox and they were unable to install and tweak to their liking. As a heavy dev who's always trying new tools, the constant install/uninstall cycle takes its toll VERY VERY quickly in Windows, whereas in OS X and Linux the system remains squeaky clean.

      Oh, and did I mention that I need admin privileges to do ANYTHING? I can't even install a flash plugin for *myself* without needing full admin privileges to the system. This is lazy programming, and Windows is full of it. If I were a sysadmin I'd be tearing my hair out. It's either: "screw you guys, use the pre-installed software and nothing else", or "have fun with full admin, I'll be here waiting for your f'ed up computer". There's no happy medium.

    7. Re:Normal People? by NeutronCowboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No - it means that you're used to Windows or Linux conventions, and are trying to use those conventions in an Apple environment.

      It doesn't work that way. I'll be blunt: learning OSX is a pain. There's a ton of non-obvious stuff that is completely different from the Windows world (I'll just point to tabbing between firefox windows when other apps are open as one of my initial pain points), and which have to be re-learned. Remember that first time you fired up Linux? How much stumbling around did you have to do? It's the same thing for OSX. Expecting to be able to navigate all of OSX without ever looking for help anywhere is.... unrealistic.

      What I will argue though is that OSX has the smallest learning curve of any new OS. I remember playing around with Linux, and having to root through config files and command line arguments to get stuff to work. Windows was a collection of arcane commands that made no sense, but worked. Compared to that, OSX is a breeze.

      --
      Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
    8. Re:Normal People? by InlawBiker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Almost everybody out there, including the true geeks, runs Windows at work because they have to. Linux, Windows servers, XP desktops, Solaris, whatever corporate buys. Everything EXCEPT Macs.

      At home we have a Macbook. Why? I don't mind running XP at work, but I'm not shelling out my own dough for Vista. I'd rather give it to Steve.

      I think the backlash against Vista, whether justified or not, has caused a lot of people to look at Macs and to some degree Linux.

    9. Re:Normal People? by AP31R0N · · Score: 5, Funny

      Someone's sig once said: Calling OSX secure is like calling the second fattest girl in the club skinny.

      And as for your sig... it's the mac *users* that really bug me. Most of them complain about something they don't understand and praise each other for being rebellious bohemians.

      It's a tool and a toy... not a way of life or philosophy!

      --
      Utilizing the synergization of benchmark e-solutions to pre-workaround action items!
    10. Re:Normal People? by strabes · · Score: 5, Informative

      Pardon me, but I'd like to know what version of windows you're using. It usually takes me at least 1.5 hours after installing to get all the drivers installed and not conflicting. The only things that "just work" out of the box are the GUI and my 10-year-old 3-button Microsoft optical mouse.

      --
      Its = possessive. It's = "it is"
    11. Re:Normal People? by jeffbax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I can't comment on the Aperture/network backup issue but...

      10.5 has a unified Finder, all windows behave the same at all times... although I think you can still make them unique they default to however you chose to display the last window.

      As for the mice... plug in a USB mouse. Its not that hard, and I have never seen one that is unsupported. Additionally, for laptops use two finger clicking. Two fingers on trackpad + click = right click. I find this is even faster/comfortable than having a button since you never have to look or worry about hitting the wrong one.

      Similarly, if you are challenged editing text files... well nobody can help you there. Seriously, pico /etc/hosts ? Its not that hard, and there are an abundance of great text editors for the Mac.

      I have to say I completely disagree, I used Windows from 3.11 to XP and DOS before those... and in my mere four years of using OS X I have never had a more trouble-free computing experience. The attention to detail is astounding and once you stop expecting it to work like Windows (such as mucking around in obscure settings dialogs) it for the most part DOES "just work" and DOES get the hell out of my way.

      As for not finding good open source Applications... I don't understand that either. I've been amazed at the quality of some of the completely free Apps here (Adium, Cyberduck, Colloquy, Drosera, NoobProof, Burn, ClamXav, EZ 7z, UnrarX, MacPar, MAMP, NicePlayer, Max, PureFTPd Manager, Transmission) ... they do a great job following HIG guidelines and I've yet to find a function I couldn't find an App for even though in some cases I do choose to pay for reasonably priced software (Acorn, Cheetah 3D, MoneyWell, LineForm, OmniGraffle, CSSEdit, TextMate, PandoraJam among them...)

      No free utilities is a bunch of crap. As for for-pay apps I know this is /. but I find the level of Polish for Mac Shareware a step above that of Windows. Your usage may vary but I hear a lot of unfounded claims...

    12. Re:Normal People? by strabes · · Score: 5, Informative

      Like finder will remember the view settings for each individual folder. I can't tell it to use one default view for every folder

      Yes you can. Open a finder window, set it to the view type you want to set as default. I use List View (Cmd+2). Press Cmd+J to show the View Options pane. Notice how this pane changes as you cycle through the different view modes (Cmd+1-4). Once you adjust the settings to your liking, simply click "Use as Defaults" on the bottom of the View Options pane.

      the standard methods of accessing the method with a single button are holding Ctrl then clicking or holding down the mouse button.

      I assume you're using a laptop since you said you have to go get a usb mouse in order to right click. In the Keyboard & Mouse section of System Preferences, under "Trackpad" you can check an option labeled "Tap trackpad using two fingers for secondary click." I use it all the time.

      --
      Its = possessive. It's = "it is"
    13. Re:Normal People? by Octorian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Only 1.5 hours? You must not be installing on a laptop, and have a fresh CD that was cut last week.

      Installing Windows XP without a pre-made image usually requires the following:
      1. Install
      2. Download drivers on another machine
      3. Install drivers
      (about a half-dozen reboots by this point)
      4. Install MS patches
      (reboot and repeat step 4 a couple times)
      5. Now install base software, and its patches

      Before you're done, we're talking almost a day of work for a laptop, perhaps half a day for a desktop. (laptops have more obscure drivers to install, and slower hard drives)

      Anyone who says Windows is easy to install has either used pre-made image CDs, has only done upgrades, or has never actually installed it.

  2. Astonishing indeed! by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    While those numbers are not astonishing

    Not astonishing? A single company, offering a proprietary product*, is outdoing nearly all of several hundred companies combined who build to a given standard! Astonishing indeed!

    * - including hardware, OS, and a broad range of application software

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  3. "Magic 10%" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is 10% "magic"? This number is significant because that's how many fingers we have?

    1. Re:"Magic 10%" by Leftist+Troll · · Score: 5, Funny

      10% is the glass ceiling for Apple marketshare. It is estimated that roughly 10% of the population is gay; beyond that, Apple is going to face an uphill battle.

  4. This is total FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If TV and the movies have taught me anything, it's that at least 90% of the computers and laptops out there are Apples. Hell, even alien civilizations use Macs on their motherships.

  5. Vista: Unix's MVP by rtobyr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Has anyone else noticed that after Vista came out, Microsoft seems to have been losing ground? Netbooks/UMPC's are selling with OEM Linux like hot cakes, and Apple is steadily gaining market share. I also bet that the disappointment with SP1 made it even worse for ol' Billy. Even if Windows 7 is all that and a bag of chips, it'll be too late because Joe the Layman will have seen that Linux really is ready for prime time.

  6. Normal people using macs now? by Zakabog · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Hard to tell, but it's good to see that normal people (not just us geeks) are choosing to go with a different OS

    Most of the Mac owners I know are normal people. Either students that got an imac laptop from their school, older people who wanted an easy to use computer, or an artist (musician, photographer, graphic designer, etc.) who wanted a powerful machine that wouldn't get infected with a ton of spyware and viruses in a week.

    None of the Mac owners I know (besides myself) are very tech savvy, they just know that their iPod works great, their PC is always infected with "viruses" (usually some spyware they installed cause it promised free smileys), and their friend's Mac never has any problems. Personally I didn't buy a Mac just for a different OS. If I want to toy around in something other than Windows, I just go install Linux on whatever old computers are lying around the house. I bought the Mac specifically for Aperture, and Final Cut Pro since I do a lot of photography and video work. I know there exists open source software or expensive Windows software to do that stuff, it's just none of it is as powerful or easy to use as the Mac versions. I don't need Mac OS to have a stable computer, I just like the software that exists for the Mac.

  7. Are you living in 1992? by tjstork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple has seen these numbers before. They're currently on a crest, but they'll sink and rise again. They have an upper limit of around 10-15% market share. They've made it quite clear that they don't *want* any more than that, and aren't interested in meeting the needs of the rest of the market.

    I've got my share of -1 postings from ripping Apple but on this you are off base. I think thi would have been true in 1992 but it is certainly not true today. It's a completely different world out there. Personal computers running Windows have become corporate computing appliances, not personal ones, where Apple has doggedly focused on being a personal computer and is imaginatively building a software, service, and shopping stack designed to build a premium consumer brand.

    If they decoupled their anaemic hardware offerings from their OS, they could see double digit growth yearly, but failing that they'll stay right where they've always been.

    Apple has double digit growth yearly. Apple stock is kicking total butt right now in a stock market that sucks. I wish I would have bought them a couple of years ago when Jobs first came back... I'd be retired!

    Secondly, Apple hardware is hardly anemic. Apple's new PowerMac, for example, is the latest Harperton Xeon and while it might be a tad pricier than the equivalent from the likes of Dell, I guarantee you that the entire service experience, from Apple store to home, is very, very good.

    Christ, I'm talking myself into buying a Macintosh... and that's the thing about Apple - you walk into the store, and it reflects the sort of perfection that Americans expect from products.. indeed, Apple has gone beyond even Japanese cars when it comes to the detail of their products...

    --
    This is my sig.
  8. Corrections by mpapet · · Score: 5, Insightful

    all it takes to run Windows is to pop in the disk and let it install

    This little bit of folklore deserves to die.

    1. Got a system restore disk? (Not an OEM-style installer!) Then sure, many minutes later your "my documents" is gone, but you are pretty much back up to day-1 status.

    2. Got an OEM installer disk? How many of those disks do not include the drivers for devices like, ohhh your *ethernet* adapter? That is the purest soul-sucking time sink ever.

    Apple's installer is pretty great for this reason. I seem to recall it kept my wife's home files intact.

     

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    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  9. Never enough market share if you're in 2nd place by Weasel+Boy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Will the pearly gates of acceptance open up for them once they reach the magic 10%, and will that have a positive effect on desktop Linux adoption?"

    Absolutely not.

    Some of you may recall that, back in the late 1980s, the Mac's market share was about 18%. For a period of time lasting into the mid-1990s, Apple was the #1 maker of PCs (IBM, Compaq and Dell rounded out the top 4; HP, Packard Bell, Gateway and a few others fought over the scraps).

    If you take into consideration the fact that Macs lasted longer than PCs in those days and Mac users tended to buy more software (claims supported by numerous published Gartner studies), you could make a fair argument that Macs represented as much as perhaps a third of the total installed base and of the potential software market.

    This was not seen as sufficient. Throughout the entire mid-80s through late-90s, the PC press maintained a steady drum-beat of, "Apple doesn't have enough market share to survive." Of course Apple's not going to make it if the press keeps telling everyone they can't! Combine this with some of Apple's strategic management blunders, and you have a perfect recipe for also-ran status.

    Not that any of this is necessary to ensure Windows' continued market dominance. Most businesses are going to use what other businesses in their industry use. Most people are going to buy for home use what they are comfortable with at work. Windows' prevalence is its own best selling feature. This is why Microsoft enjoys a "natural monopoly", and why it will take a bigger disruptive market force than anything we've seen so far in the past 20+ years to change it.

  10. Schizophrenic Mac Hardware by Cordath · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think you have to be a little insane to use some Apple hardware. Does anyone remember the puck mice? The ultra-flat desktop keyboards they're selling now are almost as bad. The earbuds that come with iPods are all universally crappy, both in build and sound quality. It's bizarre that, with Jobs exerting such obsessive compulsive control over Apple's output, crap products like these somehow slip through the cracks. It's almost like Jobs is schizoid.

    Then again, if Apple just isn't good at designing certain things, what are they supposed to do? Start selling updated IBM Model-M keyboards with their high-end desktops? Grado's with the iPods? Paint microsoft mice white!!? It's almost unimaginable, and I see that as a problem.

    This is my main beef with Apple. They're too image conscious. Admittedly, some of their user-base just wants to be fashionable, but is being fashionable really a long-term plan for success? Given how much of an asshole he is, sooner or later Jobs is going to become "uncool". Increased market share and, hence, lessened uniqueness isn't going to help. Normal people will use uncool hardware if it's *good*. This is a lesson I feel Apple needs to learn.

    1. Re:Schizophrenic Mac Hardware by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Informative

      My issues with el Mighty Mouse:

      1. The stupid trackball gets clogged very easily and is very hard to clean.
      2. The stupid trackball is too small for fine control. Great for whizzing the cursor along vast expanses of screen, bad for little adjustements.
      3. If I don't have the mouse perfectly aligned, I can't get the "right mouse" button - I get the "side button" which defaults to Expose, which is useful, but isn't the right mouse button. It's just over designed and not overly well executed. They could have just put a blasted button in there instead of getting all fancy.
      4. The whole thing is hard take apart and clean. I'm sorry, mice and keyboards need to be periodically cleaned or tossed and the MM is a little pricey to toss routinely.
      5. The ergonomics aren't very good, I much prefer the Logitech mice. Easier to use for extended periods of time.

      Of course, it's all quite subjective. I'm just glad that there are good third party options.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  11. Actually those are pretty good innards all around by MsGeek · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...and at this juncture some of the best Windows computers are Macs. You heard me right. They also make some of the best Linux computers. Now that MacIntel is the standard architecture for Macintosh, some people are actually running Windows or Linux on them. The reason why they do it? It's because quality control at the major PC manufacturers is down in the dumpster. If you want something that's built as good on the PC side, you have to go with boutique manufacturers like VoodooPC or Alienware, and even those are questionable because VoodooPC is now owned by HP and Alienware is owned by Dell. Since Lenovo took over the ThinkPad and ThinkCentre lines from IBM, quality has gone down the crapper quicker than you can say "ni hao."

    Of course, part of the experience of Macs includes Mac OS X. And the folks who buy Macs only to put Windows or Linux on them are kind of unclear on the concept, in my not so humble opinion. Mac OS X is right now the best Unix or Unix-like operating system on the desktop. Now that Leopard is at 10.5.4 it is just plain awesome and just plain works. 10.5.2 was good for me too and so was 10.5.3, but I had no occasion to use 802.11n connectivity and I know that broke with 10.5.2. With 10.5.4 even those with 802.11n wireless access points are happy.

    Still, if it means more people with Macs regardless of what OS they run, that's fine by me. More Macs sold equals more visibility for Mac. Everyone assumes that Macs run Mac OS X so the bigger the market share the more likely people will consider Mac users as more than fringies.

    --
    Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
  12. Re:Actually those are pretty good innards all arou by nilbog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You are absolutely right. I worked for HP for quite some time, and believe me - the commodity hardware that $500 HP computer is built with is dirt compared to what Apple uses.

    Think about it. HP sells a consumer laptop for $500 that includes all the bells and whistles, a webcam, shiny media buttons, etc. etc. Then they sell a business end laptop for 3x as much that is slower and has less features. Do you think there is a reason for this?

    Consumer laptops are made with the absolute cheapest parts HP can source THAT DAY. Two laptops sitting next to each other on the shelf at the store can have different parts but look exactly the same. The quality control in this situation is, understandably, not good.

    Business machines are the same in an entire series. They use good, proven hardware, and every single machine uses the same stuff. That way you can flash the same OS image onto all of them without problems. You can't do that with the consumer stuff.

    So when people compare Apple to HP or other manufacturers, keep in mind that it's the business class machines that you should be looking at. Apple doesn't use commodity hardware - they use the same piece in every unit in a series, and they use parts that are high quality and proven to work well.

    This is why people think Apple is expensive, when it's actually quite competitive.

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    or else!