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Batman Discussion
I won't be reading it because I haven't been able to go yet, but I suspect a goodly number of you have already partaken in the latest Batman flick that taunts me. Mocks me. And knows that I don't have time today or probably any time this week (unless there is a movie theater near the OSCON venue?) Anyway -- here is the official place to talk about the biggest geek movie out until the X-Files comes out next week, and I have similar frustrations.
Because Heath Ledger deserves one.
End of story.
I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
It's the latest Joker flick, Batman is just a secondary character.
I'll go ahead and comment here but keep it short and sweet. Pros - Heath Ledger was the epitome of psychosis. BRILLIANT acting. In the original Batman movie (think '60s) and later in the Burton films the Joker was more or less a silly villain. He was out for revenge or just doing it for the kicks but he wasn't crazy. He had his fun and went home. The Dark Knight's Joker was fantastically evil. I will see this movie again just to re-watch Ledger's performance. Cons - Some cheesey dialogue. The Bat-Bike was so-so. Scarecrow and Two Face seemed under used. All in all I'd give this movie a nine out of ten. Ten out of ten for acting and sheer awesome. Eight out of ten for cheese and missed opportunities.
Never has a simple writing implement, been used to set the tone of a movie so effectively.
You mad
I agree with the voice comment - every time I hear it it just doesn't sound right. He's trying too hard.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
The ethical dilemma on the two ferries toward the end of the flick was excellent. The Joker's rants are enough to make you think (if you haven't already) but that one line was really, truly excellent:
"Well, we're still here, which means they haven't pushed the button."
Above all else, the best thing about this movie was the trip into the different aspects of the human condition. Whether it's the chaotic Joker, fair Two-Face, pure Fox, kind Alfred, or incorruptible Batman, or any of the others, we get, as The New Yorker paraphrased, a rare glimpse into the abyss.
I live in constant fear of the Coming of the Red Spiders.
Yes. This is also a flaw in Batman Begins. However, if you think about it, the pacing and framing of each scene is akin to what you would see in a comic book. In essence, each scene is a frame. Am I the only one who thinks this?
First I want to say I loved it, easily the best movie I've seen this year. Nolan did a great job at keeping it dark and gritty, and I can be satisfied with that alone. Some of the aspects of the movie really did seem forced though. For one thing it seemed like Harvey made the transition to Two Face very quickly. Yes, there he went through a lot, but his character never gave off a sense that it affected him all that much until the end. There was only one scene to really show that he might've been unhinged somewhat before becoming Two Face, and even then he seemed to be very much in control. It just seemed like there wasn't enough foreshadowing that he was capable of being a true monster. Aaron Eckhart gave a great performance, but I think if Harvey had been given more a backstory (such as how they introduced him in Batman: TAS, talking to a shrink) the overall effect would've been more profound.
God, schmod. I want my monkey man!
Anybody else catch that?
Anybody else think of Bush when they caught it?
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
Don't get me wrong, he's good - very good - but it's not Academy Award level acting. If he had lived, nobody would be discussing an award.
Certainly, it will get nominations for cinematography for Pfister (who will win), writing for the brothers Nolan, and production design for Crowley (who will also win), but that's it.
If the Academy chose to recognise the efforts of the only people who actually knowingly risk their lives for film, stunt people, then this would win as well. But, the Academy is blind to this irony, so they won't.
The Joker simply took advantage of Dent's vulnerability after having lost the love of his life. He explained to Dent that this happened due to the corrupt elements within the police force; that the "good guys" weren't all good.
The Joker also explained himself as little more than a "dog chasing cars" that "wouldn't know what to do once he caught one." He has no motivation for the destruction of Gotham other than sheer nihilism. As others have explained: he is a force of nature.
So, in that moment it was laid out for Harvey. The good weren't all good, and the bad not all bad.
Dent decided that this applied to himself as well. He then went on a vendetta, using his "lucky" coin as judge and jury, since sheer fate was the only form of justice left to him.
--
For as we all know: money can't buy knives.
"Geek" doesn't mean being into the latest gadgets and computers.
Comic books and tabletop gaming are, and always have bee, geek.
Personally I thought that was part of it's brilliance... the director didn't feel the need to explain everything. I hate it when movies try to wrap everything up in neat little bows so the audience doesn't have to think (a little.. not like the independent films where the entire story is a brain puzzle).
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
I agree about the actor switching... I understand that you can't make actors come back for a part but it ruins the continuity of the series. As for Rachel... I actually enjoyed that part because of how the other characters changed in response to it. Also, there's the whole "finally, the bad guys did something right" thing. I get so tired of the cliche "you must choose between your two friends." "I choose BOTH - oh look I saved them both I m amazing! yay!" In this case he *did* choose, he was just deceived.
You are using English. Please learn the difference between loose and lose; they're, there, and their; your and you're.
I doubt it.
Because then the Joker says, kill 10 people or I'll blow up a hospital.
Or kill 100 people or I'll blow up a hospital.
Or kill 1000 people or I'll blow up a hospital.
The moment you accept killing one innocent person is OK to save many more innocent people, then how do you propose we weigh their lives? Does society even work when we permit such madness to reign?
Maybe you should pick and choose the filmmakers you support instead of just generalizing that Hollywood = bad
There are still quite a few US filmmakers who hold the integrity of their vision above that of the studio's greed for profit.
Collector's Edition
He really did. I can't imagine that it's possible for anyone to ever play the Joker better. I was expecting a good movie, but frankly it surprised me by how much it exceeded my expectations. He should certainly win an Oscar for that. Easily the best supporting actor role of the year, even without seeing the films from the last half of the year.
There is no -1 Disagree mod. Slashdot.org/faq defines mod options. USE IT.
There was a (probable, but subtle) allusion to Catwoman in TDK. When Fox gives Batman his new suit, he makes it a point to say it will protect against cats.
I think that was part of the Experiment. People didn't want to die, so they believed what the villan said at face value. In all likelyhood, it was indeed their own detonator, and the jocker was waiting to see which group would get up the nerve to murder the other first.
Although I think he (and the other responders to your comment, especially the one who said you were trolling) completely missed your (and Dawson's) point, I see no difference between the 3,000 victims of Bin Laden and the thousands upon thousands of other murder victims and their survivors.
The difference is, the other victims and survivors weren't exploited for political gain nearly as much.
Why were we able to catch and kill Saddam Hussein, who never attacked the USA, but we can't bring Bin Laden to justice? Someone is terribly incompetent, and I think it's the entire government of the US.
mcgrew's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by greedy self-interest
Actually, if I remember it right, Lucius totally effed up. The accountant only said that he knew that Wayne Enterprises had created the Batmobile; he hadn't necessarily concluded that Wayne was Batman! Obviously the script doesn't realize this. Or maybe I heard it wrong.
So for all you people out there talking about how dark it was, and lordie it certainly was, (I haven't enjoyed a movie that much since young Alex went cavorting with his droogs, but I'm a twisted sort who's digressing) how about the fact that this movie and Indiana Jones had the same rating? Seriously, how completely misleading and worthless is a system that ranks those two levels of intensity as comparable?
You need more psychedelic art in your life. rhesusmonkey.deviantart.com
Right, but the Joker's a liar. Two mutually exclusive stories for the scars on his cheeks... probably neither of them close to the truth.
Not a schemer, my foot. As a friend of mine said, he's the schemiest of the lot - and they're all pretty schemey.
Raging nihilism, intense, disturbing images, anarchy, mutilation, and you call foul if Batman drinks sprite? That's the line? I'm flabbergasted. By all means, I'm sure there's a million better things to do than to see a movie, go run in a park or something... but product placement? Really? Wow.
You need more psychedelic art in your life. rhesusmonkey.deviantart.com
I'd argue that the Joker was the real 'star' of this film. I suppose he was a supporting actor, but he stole the show.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
And for all the talk about being "not a schemer," the setup with the bomb-in-stomach in the police office, as well as the two ferries, obviously took a fair bit of forethought and planning.
I get the impression the director preferred to show much more gore, but was edited back due to the need to make sales with the PG-13 rating.
As a rated R movie this movie coudl have as much fear factor as teh original psyco
No wonder he was so depressed... If I was Kaiser Sose and was meaninglessly employed, married to an unfaithful shrew and had an ungrateful bitch of a daughter, the opportunity to boink a pretty teen would make me happy too.
So.. basically the animated series Freeze?
(which btw.. I thought was a pretty compelling character)
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Have you ever seen a 70mm print of Lawrence of Arabia? Its an entirely different experience from watching it at home. You get a whole different view of the movie, the way it was intended to be seen.
Suggesting otherwise is like suggesting that looking at the Sistine Chapel on a webpage is no different than seeing it in person. Its just ridiculous. You see the image, but not the detail.
Here's how I saw this one come out:
The dude was going to blow Batman's identity on broadcast TV, then the Joker flips the script on him. Now he's freaking out realizing that half the people in the city might be crazy enough to wax him(with or without the Joker's motivation). He manages to walk away from the biggest attempt on his life, and what's the first thing he sees as he's doing that? Mr. billionaire playboy sitting in his wrecked $500,000 car, having just saved his ass. You know, RIGHT AFTER he had just been moments away from spilling the man's secret.
I'd like to think that if I were in that guy's shoes, I'd take that secret to the grave with me, after that kind of self-sacrifice in the face of my own selfishness. Or at least, I'd hope it'd take a little bit of torture, maybe a good beating, to get me to cough it up. :)
There were a bunch of people trying to kill the lawyer, including the one cop that had his wife in the hospital. The problem with just killing that guy to satisfy the Joker is that the Joker has lied about everything since the beginning of the movie. Why would anybody (especially law enforcement) trust him to keep his word and not blow up the hospital? It makes sense that they didn't just kill the lawyer - we don't bow down to terrorist demands. As for the lawyer giving up Batman's identity; Bruce Wayne saved the lawyer's life when he drove his car in front of the van that was going to crash into the lawyer's vehicle. The lawyer saw what Bruce Wayne did and I took it that he at that point realized that he shouldn't give up Batman's identity since Wayne saved his life even in spite of him about to give away his identity. That's what I got out of it anyway. Sure they could have had a newscast or something at the end with the lawyer saying he was gonna keep Batman's identity a secret, but what would be the point?
Don't trust a bull's horn, a doberman's tooth, a runaway horse or me.
...it always bothers me when characters that have been portrayed as smart suddenly become especially stupid for the sake of plot.
The Joker has threatened all means of transport other than ferries - that must mean the ferries are safe!
paintball